Better scorer Kobe or Jordan

[magicbalala245]

Not talking about any other facet of the game just pure offense abilities scoring wise. Not passing or setting team mates up just scoring wise who is the better player.

[Flash]

I know people will point to Kobe's 81, but gimme Jordan all day.

[Guest N/A]

Give me Jordan, he could score whenever he wanted at any point in his career...

[reno]

MJ he pretty much dominates kobe statistically in scoring. Put Jordan in todays game and he would average at least 40ppg.

 

http://i2.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/draft_lens2018466module9873822photo_1212807413offense-jordan-versus-kobe.jpg

 

http://i3.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/draft_lens2018466module9874349photo_1212810108defense-jordan-kobe-stats.jpg

Edited February 21, 2011 by Cutler=Pansy

[Lkr]

^what do those defensive stats have to do with anything

[reno]

^what do those defensive stats have to do with anything

says mr. hongkong.

 

Also, when MJ had his season best of 37 points per game, he only attempted 66 3 pointers, kobes highest scoring season of 35ppg, he attempted 398 3 pointers.

[Flash]

says mr. hongkong.

 

Also, when MJ had his season best of 37 points per game, he only attempted 66 3 pointers, kobes highest scoring season of 35ppg, he attempted 398 3 pointers.

 

That kind of a random stat, but its pretty amazing at the same time lol.

[fish7718]

Kobe Bryant. He's just so dominant in every way when it comes to scoring. He can beat from, 3 from mid, from post, slashing, driving, with the ball, with out the ball. What ever and he's amazing at all of it. What sets them apart to me would probably be Kobe's post game which is incredible.

[Real Deal]

I don't look at efficiency because players were far more efficient back then...meaning, guards. It's amazing...30-40 different guards, 15+ PPG, shot over 50% from the floor in Jordan's era. You don't see that today.

 

Just the other day, Kobe stated that if he had a chance to change the game, he would remove the zone defenses. Jordan did face zones here and there, but the doubles were forced to commit to the player, so he didn't see them as often because, to be legal defense, teams HAD to leave one guy open. Made the game easier, no matter what anyone says...it's a no-brainer. The greatest defensive teams have played superstars like that, with a modified zone, and it goes from the 2008 Celtics to the 2004 Pistons, a couple of the Spurs teams, etc.

 

Also, defensive specialists have been getting much, much more playing time in Bryant's era. Bowen, Afflalo, T-Allen, Battier, Bell, Matthews, Batum, Varejao, D-Jones, Chalmers (who starts over a better offensive player in Arroyo), Ariza, Sefolosha, even Artest...and the list goes on...most of the perimeter defenders do nothing but spot-up and play defense.

 

Back in the 80s and 90s, basketball was more team-oriented. The idea was to stop the team. When Detroit and New York decided to use the Jordan Rules, they still couldn't get the job done for that very reason...the physical defense, double teams, and constant switching of defenders did three things: it drew more fouls, left Jordan's teammates open (still no zones) and had a negative effect on their offensive production.

 

Jordan was more efficient, and he has a higher average (in a season and career), more points. Bryant has more ways to score the ball, more range, and the higher point total in a game. It's hard to convince me that Kobe couldn't have averaged 37 PPG (or better) if Phil wasn't around that season, AND if he had more shots at it (he was with Shaq from 1996-2004). Jackson sat Kobe out of the fourth in his 62-point game against Dallas. He sat Kobe for a quarter when he dropped 57 and 56 against Memphis and Washington. Bryant could've had three 70-point games, not including his 81. People that didn't watch LA every game have no idea how Jackson tried to put the ball in Odom's hands, hoping he could facilitate, then to rely on Kobe in isolations later on. It was crazy.

 

Bryant had a 42-point first half one time. In the 81-point game, he dropped 55 in the second half.

 

So don't bother giving me just the numbers. Wilt scored like he was playing on a seven-foot rim. Him and Kareem rebounded like they were on one. Shaq never averaged 30 PPG in his career, mainly because he was next to Bryant, and in an offense implemented by Phil.

 

Bryant is the more versatile scorer, and has faced more traffic than any player not named Shaq. He's so versatile and has so many options, he's still doing it despite the TONS of miles already logged, a longer duration of prime than Mike and any player I can think of in the last 20-30 years (even Malone, argue Kareem), and it's all because of the number of ways he can score the ball.

 

Jordan is the GOAT. Kobe is the better scorer.

[JYD]

Jordan. Let's not forget, Jordan played in an era where there was more defense played, and hand checking was allowed.

[EastCoastNiner]

Jordan. Let's not forget, Jordan played in an era where there was more defense played, and hand checking was allowed.

 

And, Jordan could travel all he wanted and push off people. He's an over-rated player, and couldn't hold Kobe's jock.

[Real Deal]

Jordan. Let's not forget, Jordan played in an era where there was more defense played, and hand checking was allowed.

The best defensive teams in the history of the game were from 1999-2010.

 

2003-04 Spurs

1997-98 Spurs

2003-04 Rockets

2003-04 Pistons

2003-04 Wolves

1999-00 Lakers

2000-01 Knicks

2007-08 Celtics

2000-01 Spurs

2002-03 Kings

1971-72 Bucks

 

The 71-72 Bucks were the only team outside of that era to hold their opponents to .420 FG or less.

 

Zone defense is more effective than hand-checking. Hell, players still get away with hand-checking today. Players were getting too aggressive, and fouls were still being called. Zone is effective both with or without the aggressive play. You set up a zone, and if a team wants, they keep Kobe out of the paint all game long, no matter what. Granted, other players will get theirs, but if the team really wants Kobe to shoot and never drive, it's done.

 

What Jordan did was amazing, but it's overrated. Aside from the Jordan Rules (from the Pistons, and later the Knicks), he didn't face much from a team standpoint, and the Jordan Rules were put aside because Mike would just pass to one of MANY shooters, such as Kerr, Paxson, Kukoc, Armstrong, Hodges, and even Pippen, and teams were forced to stick one player on him.

 

It's too bad Kobe wasn't an 80s or 90s superstar.

[Flash]

Let's also not forget, that Mike was retired for like 4 or 5 years. Had he kept playing, his numbers would be so ridiculous that I don't think we're having this conversation.

[Real Deal]

Let's also not forget, that Mike was retired for like 4 or 5 years. Had he kept playing, his numbers would be so ridiculous that I don't think we're having this conversation.

He retired for a season and a half. His second retirement, he was already suffering from the destroyed index finger (just like Bryant's), hurting knees, and he didn't look like the MJ we saw in his first three championship runs. It was obvious he was declining, and even less efficient...had a LOT of trouble shooting the ball in the Finals as well, despite the Jazz rarely double-teaming him (which led to Bryon Russell thinking he was better than MJ, his quote).

 

I don't really consider his stint with Washington when I discuss a topic like this. Maybe when Bryant is all said and done.

 

Jordan would've had eight rings, though (not falling for the hype about Houston, but that was meant for another topic), although, if we play that game, we can talk about Kobe and Shaq having more if they got along, and if Phil arrived in 1996, instead of 1999.

[reno]

I don't look at efficiency because players were far more efficient back then...meaning, guards. It's amazing...30-40 different guards, 15+ PPG, shot over 50% from the floor in Jordan's era. You don't see that today.

 

Just the other day, Kobe stated that if he had a chance to change the game, he would remove the zone defenses. Jordan did face zones here and there, but the doubles were forced to commit to the player, so he didn't see them as often because, to be legal defense, teams HAD to leave one guy open. Made the game easier, no matter what anyone says...it's a no-brainer. The greatest defensive teams have played superstars like that, with a modified zone, and it goes from the 2008 Celtics to the 2004 Pistons, a couple of the Spurs teams, etc.

 

Also, defensive specialists have been getting much, much more playing time in Bryant's era. Bowen, Afflalo, T-Allen, Battier, Bell, Matthews, Batum, Varejao, D-Jones, Chalmers (who starts over a better offensive player in Arroyo), Ariza, Sefolosha, even Artest...and the list goes on...most of the perimeter defenders do nothing but spot-up and play defense.

 

Back in the 80s and 90s, basketball was more team-oriented. The idea was to stop the team. When Detroit and New York decided to use the Jordan Rules, they still couldn't get the job done for that very reason...the physical defense, double teams, and constant switching of defenders did three things: it drew more fouls, left Jordan's teammates open (still no zones) and had a negative effect on their offensive production.

 

Jordan was more efficient, and he has a higher average (in a season and career), more points. Bryant has more ways to score the ball, more range, and the higher point total in a game. It's hard to convince me that Kobe couldn't have averaged 37 PPG (or better) if Phil wasn't around that season, AND if he had more shots at it (he was with Shaq from 1996-2004). Jackson sat Kobe out of the fourth in his 62-point game against Dallas. He sat Kobe for a quarter when he dropped 57 and 56 against Memphis and Washington. Bryant could've had three 70-point games, not including his 81. People that didn't watch LA every game have no idea how Jackson tried to put the ball in Odom's hands, hoping he could facilitate, then to rely on Kobe in isolations later on. It was crazy.

 

Bryant had a 42-point first half one time. In the 81-point game, he dropped 55 in the second half.

 

So don't bother giving me just the numbers. Wilt scored like he was playing on a seven-foot rim. Him and Kareem rebounded like they were on one. Shaq never averaged 30 PPG in his career, mainly because he was next to Bryant, and in an offense implemented by Phil.

 

Bryant is the more versatile scorer, and has faced more traffic than any player not named Shaq. He's so versatile and has so many options, he's still doing it despite the TONS of miles already logged, a longer duration of prime than Mike and any player I can think of in the last 20-30 years (even Malone, argue Kareem), and it's all because of the number of ways he can score the ball.

 

Jordan is the GOAT. Kobe is the better scorer.

 

lol jordan faced a Bruce bowen every night, barkley said he would nut check people back in the day and give them their foul, that [expletive] is not in the game nowdays, that would be an automatic ejection/suspension. Bottom line is, jordan brand will be selling for a long time, longer time than when kobe retires. Everyone wants jordan shoes. MJ would woop kobe one on one, so tell me who the better scorer is LOL

 

An if kobe played in the 80s, he would get shut down. He wouldn't be able to handle all that contact, I mean just look at how much he complains now.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Cutler=Pansy

[Real Deal]

lol jordan faced a Bruce bowen every night, barkley said he would nut check people back in the day and give them their foul, that [expletive] is not in the game nowdays, that would be an automatic ejection/suspension. Bottom line is, jordan brand will be selling for a long time, longer time than when kobe retires. Everyone wants jordan shoes. MJ would woop kobe one on one, so tell me who the better scorer is LOL

 

An if kobe played in the 80s, he would get shut down. He wouldn't be able to handle all that contact, I mean just look at how much he complains now.

Barkley was actually joking. He was one of my favorite players back in the late 80s and 90s, and I watched him all the time. Aside from the fighting and him spitting on a fan, he didn't do anything stupid like that on the court (and if he did, it was once).

 

Jordan brand? Huh?

 

MJ would "woop" Kobe one-on-one? Do you have proof? A second-year Kobe didn't have too much trouble with him in the 1997 ASG, an MVP year for Jordan.

 

Their first real regular season meeting (Kobe playing more than 13 minutes, and they actually defended each other, Kobe did pretty damn good, and Jordan was still a Bull.

 

12/17/1997

Kobe - 33 PTS (12-20 FG, 60%), 3 REB, 2 AST, 0 TO

Jordan - 36 PTS (12-22 FG, 55%), 5 REB, 4 AST, 4 TO

 

Their second meeting, Jordan scored more and did better, but he also shot just 42% against Bryant (who shot 44% against MJ), and Jordan put him in foul trouble.

 

Again, this is a second-year Bryant against Jordan, who was in an MVP season (and on his way to his sixth ring).

 

But, okay.

 

You know what's even more hilarious? Jordan complained about contact just as much. He just wasn't as animated. He would cuss at the ref, stare him down, and constantly talk to him on the floor. I'm sure you'd know this, since you watched Jordan throughout the 80s and 90s...right?

[Instigator]

Jordan was more of a consistent scorer throughout his career since he averaged 30 ppg in his career. Kobe had that 35 ppg spark and a nice 81 points vs Toronto although the raptors aren't known for defense. I'm going with Jordan

[Guest N/A]

I think my biggest thing is that Michael averaged at least 20 PPG in every season he played.

 

Kobe cannot say this...

 

Kobe didn't average 20 PPG until the 4th year of his career, and this a key argument for Jordan.

 

Also, Kobe's highest career scoring average is 35.4 PPG, Jordan's is 37.1 PPG.

 

I don't care how many more shots Jordan took or how Kobe was a better three-point shooter.

 

You can take 1000 shots per game, but if you don't put the ball in the basket once does it matter how many shot attempts you have?

 

It really doesn't, not when you're efficient like Jordan was.

 

He shot 49.7% from the field in his career, and Kobe is only at 45.5%

 

Yes, Michael shot roughly 3 more shots per game, but he was more efficient than Kobe in scoring overall during his career.

 

Jordan also averaged more points per game in the playoffs than Kobe did/has.

 

Jordan averaged 33.4 PPG in the playoffs compared to Kobe's 25.0 PPG in the playoffs.

 

If we are debating over who is the best scorer, Michael is better than Kobe in every facet of his game at scoring except for three-point shooting.

 

Kobe is a one of a kind scorer, but even Kobe would agree that Michael Jordan is a better scorer than he is.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBh3jf4mOOk

 

[Clutch]

kobe is already in top 10 or top 8 in all-time missed shots i think and that to me hurts him in this debate, he has been a volume scorer much like a.i was, obviously more skilled, but still a volume shooter -- jordan was efficient and consistent his whole career pretty much

[Guest N/A]

kobe is already in top 10 or top 8 in all-time missed shots i think and that to me hurts him in this debate, he has been a volume scorer much like a.i was, obviously more skilled, but still a volume shooter -- jordan was efficient and consistent his whole career pretty much

 

This is what hurts Kobe in the argument, but he also did play with Smush Parker and Chris Mihm so that hurt him.

 

Jordan had similar players like Parker and Mihm his first few years in the league before Pippen got there, and he put up more efficient numbers than Kobe without Pippen.

 

Kobe is one of the greatest scorers ever, but I don't think anyone besides Wilt can come close to Michael.

[Clutch]

i think he's actually top6 btw, but ye, those teams he played with definitely had a huge effect

[fish7718]

I think my biggest thing is that Michael averaged at least 20 PPG in every season he played.

 

Kobe cannot say this...

 

Kobe didn't average 20 PPG until the 4th year of his career, and this a key argument for Jordan.

 

Is that really your biggest thing? Because that is dumber than your "ring makes a superstar" argument, and that itself could have been the most moronic thing ive read on this forum, until now.

 

Jordans age when he avg 20+ points for the first time - 21

Kobes age when he avg 20+ points for the first time - 21

 

Kobe also had 19.9 at age 20 which I would say is 20 PPG but obviously you chose 20 for a reason

 

If we are debating over who is the best scorer, Michael is better than Kobe in every facet of his game at scoring except for three-point shooting.

Wrong, Kobe's greatest strength is his mid range shooting where he is probably the best in NBA history, Kobe is not only a better shooter, period. But a better scorer, period.

Edited February 21, 2011 by fish7718

[Flash]

Kobe's back to the basket game is molded after Mike's. Once Mike lost that ridiculous athleticism he would just kill guys by posting up and shooting that turnaround jumper. His mid-range game is probably the best in NBA history, even better than Kobe's IMO. They're 1 and 2 but I think its still MJ by a lot.

[Real Deal]

kobe is already in top 10 or top 8 in all-time missed shots i think and that to me hurts him in this debate

Jordan is with him. Bryant has missed 11,358 shots in his career. Jordan missed 12,345.

 

Sadly, Jordan reached that number in 14 seasons (combining the two partial seasons he played, or else it would be 15).

[Guest N/A]

Is that really your biggest thing? Because that is dumber than your "ring makes a superstar" argument, and that itself could have been the most moronic thing ive read on this forum, until now.

 

Jordans age when he avg 20+ points for the first time - 21

Kobes age when he avg 20+ points for the first time - 21

 

 

Wrong, Kobe's greatest strength is his mid range shooting where he is probably the best in NBA history, Kobe is not only a better shooter, period. But a better scorer, period.

 

When they were both 21, Michael averaged 28 PPG and Kobe averaged 22.5 PPG so that kills that argument.

 

 

As long as we're pointing to just one argument as well...

 

Jordan averaged 37 PPG when he was just 24 years old.

 

Kobe averaged 35 PPG when he 27 years old.

 

Not only was Jordan a better scorer at the beginning of his career, he also matured as a scorer faster than Kobe.