Guest N/A Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) Since the MVP race seems to be down to Howard vs Rose, why isn't Howard considered the favorite (LeBron cannot be considered because of the team he is on and the players he plays with, how can you win MVP with another Top 3 overall player on your team?) The MVP is awarded on the basis of the player being the most VALUABLE to his team, and there are many factors involved. To break down the race we must use basic statistics and advanced ones to compare both players and how valuable they are to their team's because they play completely different positions. The Orlando Magic are 36-22. Dwight Howard is averaging 23 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 2.1 bpg, 59% FG, 59% FT and also has a career high 1.2 steals this season. Howard has the 2nd highest overall PER rating at 26.21 (2nd to LeBron's 26.7). Howard has the 2nd highest overall ESA(Estimated Wins Added) at 16.0 (2nd to LeBron's). The Bulls are 38-17.Derrick Rose is averaging 25 ppg, 8.2 apg, 4.4 rpg, 45% FG, 84% FT, and is averaging 1 steal per game this season. Rose is 4th among PG's and 13th overall with a 23.25 PER. Rose is 2nd among PG's(Behind CP3) and 9th overall with a 12.7 ESA. The player efficiency rating (PER) is a rating of a player's per-minute productivity. Player Efficiency Rating is the overall rating of a player's per-minute statistical production. The league average is 15.00 every season. Two important things to remember about PER are that it's per-minute and is pace-adjusted. What PER can do, however, is summarize a player's statistical accomplishments in a single number. Estimated Wins Added - Value Added divided by 30, giving the estimated number of wins a player adds to a team’s season total above what a 'replacement player' would produce.You make the choice, is Derrick Rose truly the MVP? Edited February 26, 2011 by N/A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkr Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Derrick Rose's team is better. That is all that matters with the award. If you really think it is based on anything else, then don't bother arguing over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog17k Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I think it's Dwight simply because without him our team has little to no defense, and we're barely a playoff team in the East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish7718 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 This is more annoying than sabermetrics -_- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N/A Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 This is more annoying than sabermetrics -_- They're also as helpful. In baseball, win shares and UZR can calculate how valuable player and how great of a fielder they are rather than just looking at their overall stats or fielding percentage. These stats are better measures of true value and skill rather than the basic ppg, rpg, apg, bpg, spg, fg%, ft%, turnovers, and many other stats. They take ALL stats in account and assign the correct values to the players taking EVERYTHING in account. These stats truly do not lie, and they're nothing like the joke that is +/- where a 1-18 Chris Bosh can have a positive +/- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Check my Stats Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I see what you're trying to do, and you have a point. What Dwight is doing at this point is very similar to what LeBron was doing, leading a pretty 2nd rate cast to a high playoff seed. However in order to be in the MVP talk you have to be one of the best teams in the league. Besides unusual circumstances (Kobe's 36 PPG Smush to the playoffs year) you have to be a top team to be in the MVP talk. It's just how it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Kobe averaged 35 points and led the worst team of all time to a 7th seed. Shut upppppppppppp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted February 28, 2011 Owner Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 People are going to look at the Bulls and wonder how the hell they are so good, especially with Boozer and Noah out for so long. Rose had Deng, and that's about it. Howard is a defensive anchor, and of course, he's the main reason why the Magic are a top 5-6 team on defense...but they have a lot of firepower back on offense, guys that prevent Howard from being doubled every second he has the ball in his hands. Richardson, Nelson, Hedo, Arenas, Redick...they are 20 feet away from Howard most of the time, and it's perfect for Dwight. Howard is probably my second candidate, but I can't ignore what Rose is doing. Everything has improved with him, and the Bulls are a contender. I'm not sure the Magic are, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rajon Rondo Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 People are going to look at the Bulls and wonder how the hell they are so good, especially with Boozer and Noah out for so long. Well, those people are probably hockey fans because one quick look at their team defensive statistics will show you why they are so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted March 1, 2011 Owner Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Well, those people are probably hockey fans because one quick look at their team defensive statistics will show you why they are so good.Point was, Chicago didn't have Noah the entire time. A starting five of Kurt Thomas, Taj Gibson, Luol Deng, Keith Bogans and Derrick Rose should've never been the second best defensive team in the NBA, especially when they are bringing Korver, Asik and Watson off the bench, and even Brewer's defense hasn't been as good as it was supposed to be. All of the players are buying into the team defense concept, and Rose is a huge part of that. He's also playing better on-ball defense, and he has improved his jumper, and is also more aggressive. All of his improvements, and him being the more aggressive scorer, are a huge part of their success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rajon Rondo Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Sure, his D has improved, but he's not the best defender on his team like Dwight is, and Orlando is 4th in team defense. Chicago is a top 5 defensive team with or without Rose. Orlando is probably not even top 10 without Dwight. This is why I give Dwight the edge. They both score pretty evenly. One gets assists, the other rebounds. The defensive ability is what I think separates the two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N/A Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Sure, his D has improved, but he's not the best defender on his team like Dwight is, and Orlando is 4th in team defense. Chicago is a top 5 defensive team with or without Rose. Orlando is probably not even top 10 without Dwight. This is why I give Dwight the edge. They both score pretty evenly. One gets assists, the other rebounds. The defensive ability is what I think separates the two. I agree, plus the Bulls have two all-star caliber players in Boozer and Noah and one has at least been around with Rose for every game this season. What current all-star caliber player does Dwight have? No one... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted March 1, 2011 Owner Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Sure, his D has improved, but he's not the best defender on his team like Dwight is, and Orlando is 4th in team defense. Chicago is a top 5 defensive team with or without Rose. Orlando is probably not even top 10 without Dwight. This is why I give Dwight the edge. They both score pretty evenly. One gets assists, the other rebounds. The defensive ability is what I think separates the two.If that's how you're judging the players, LeBron James is your MVP every single season. Saying the Bulls would be a top five defensive team without Rose is just you assuming it. By definition, the MVP goes to a contending team's best player, that does more with less. Pierce, James, Kobe, Dirk, and Ginobil all have more help than Rose has had this year. Orlando isn't a contender, unless we are going to consider the Thunder and Hawks one. No need to change the definition of the award. If we do that, Bryant has been robbed over and over again, because he has been the best player in the league for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N/A Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 If that's how you're judging the players, LeBron James is your MVP every single season. Saying the Bulls would be a top five defensive team without Rose is just you assuming it. By definition, the MVP goes to a contending team's best player, that does more with less. Pierce, James, Kobe, Dirk, and Ginobil all have more help than Rose has had this year. Orlando isn't a contender, unless we are going to consider the Thunder and Hawks one. No need to change the definition of the award. If we do that, Bryant has been robbed over and over again, because he has been the best player in the league for many years. How are the Bulls more of a contender than the Magic? The Magic have been to the conference finals the last two years, and made the Finals in 2009. When's the last time the Bulls won a playoff series? The Magic are PROVEN contenders, the Bulls are just pretenders until they win a playoff series. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 How are the Bulls more of a contender than the Magic? The Magic have been to the conference finals the last two years, and made the Finals in 2009. When's the last time the Bulls won a playoff series? The Magic are PROVEN contenders, the Bulls are just pretenders until they win a playoff series.So I'm guessing the Celtics weren't much of a contender in '07-08? Were the Wizards more of a contender than them because they made it to the playoffs the year before and the C's didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N/A Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 So I'm guessing the Celtics weren't much of a contender in '07-08? Were the Wizards more of a contender than them because they made it to the playoffs the year before and the C's didn't? Pretty sure the Wizards haven't been contenders since they were called the Bullets, and the Magic have been to the ECF and NBA Finals over the past two seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Pretty sure the Wizards haven't been contenders since they were called the Bullets, and the Magic have been to the ECF and NBA Finals over the past two seasons.What you're saying is so stupid, basically you're saying Orlando is a stronger contender this year by things that have happened in the past rather than basing everything off of its' current situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N/A Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 What you're saying is so stupid, basically you're saying Orlando is a stronger contender this year by things that have happened in the past rather than basing everything off of its' current situation. Orlando and Chicago play Friday, we'll see who is the real contender. Also, currently the Bulls are 3rd and the Magic are 4th. Is that really THAT MUCH of a difference? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkr Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Orlando and Chicago play Friday, we'll see who is the real contender. Also, currently the Bulls are 3rd and the Magic are 4th. Is that really THAT MUCH of a difference?yes, Orlando has been playing awful against good teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N/A Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 yes, Orlando has been playing awful against good teams Beating the Thunder and Lakers by double digits is awful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Beating the Thunder and Lakers by double digits is awful?Chicago has beaten Boston, Miami (twice), Dallas, Oklahoma City, San Antonio, and the Lakers. I rest my case. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N/A Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Chicago has beaten Boston, Miami (twice), Dallas, Oklahoma City, San Antonio, and the Lakers. I rest my case. They beat Dallas without Dirk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 They beat Dallas without Dirk.Nice excuse...do you have one for each victory I mentioned? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rajon Rondo Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 If that's how you're judging the players, LeBron James is your MVP every single season. Saying the Bulls would be a top five defensive team without Rose is just you assuming it. By definition, the MVP goes to a contending team's best player, that does more with less. Pierce, James, Kobe, Dirk, and Ginobil all have more help than Rose has had this year. Orlando isn't a contender, unless we are going to consider the Thunder and Hawks one. No need to change the definition of the award. If we do that, Bryant has been robbed over and over again, because he has been the best player in the league for many years.So Orlando isn't a contender, but the Bulls (with 2 more wins) are? I'm puzzled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted March 1, 2011 Owner Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 How are the Bulls more of a contender than the Magic? The Magic have been to the conference finals the last two years, and made the Finals in 2009. When's the last time the Bulls won a playoff series? The Magic are PROVEN contenders, the Bulls are just pretenders until they win a playoff series.The Heat haven't won a playoff series in 4-5 years. Cleveland has been a contender from 2007-2010, made the Finals in 2007, conference finals in 2009. How are the Heat more of a contender than the Cavaliers? So Orlando isn't a contender, but the Bulls (with 2 more wins) are? I'm puzzled.Correction: three more wins, five less losses. Magic are four games behind the Bulls, Thunder are 4.5 games behind the Lakers. If the Magic are contenders, so are the Thunder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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