Phightins Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I'm sorry, but I just think that the NL is complete [expletive], and the only team that I can see actually standing a chance in the AL is the Philadelphia Phillies, although I think they would really suffer because of Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins, and Jason Worth. Uhm...what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Uhm...what? Jimmy Rollins is garbage right now, and Ryan Howard and Jason Werth(playing as well as he can) are strike-out machines in the NL, and would suffer BIG TIME in the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) Jimmy Rollins is garbage right now, and Ryan Howard and Jason Werth(playing as well as he can) are strike-out machines in the NL, and would suffer BIG TIME in the AL. you obviously havent seen a phillies game in a while because jimmy have been really good recently. you have no idea what you are talking about and phillies are absolutely better then the dodgers and cardinals. especially after getting lee. you just hate philly so you just make yourself think the phillies suck. WORLD [expletive]ING CHAMPIONS Edited July 30, 2009 by fly3rs18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) you obviously havent seen a phillies game in a while because jimmy have been really good recently. you have no idea what you are talking about Put Ryan Howard and Jason Werth in the AL, and they are #1 and #2 in K's, no question. And, a .288 OBP is downright pathetic. Edited July 30, 2009 by EastCoastNiner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) and phillies are absolutely better then the dodgers and cardinals. especially after getting lee. you just hate philly so you just make yourself think the phillies suck. WORLD [expletive]ING CHAMPIONS No, the aren't "absolutely" better. The Cardinals added Matt Holliday and Mark Derosa to their line-up, and the L.A. Dodgers may not be better, but their pitching makes in close one way or the other. And, I don't hate Philly as before the Manny Ramirez trade I had them going to the World Series where as you Philly fans were saying you needed better pitching. They are improved, but they aren't definitely better than some of the teams I listed. Edited July 30, 2009 by EastCoastNiner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Jimmy Rollins is garbage right now, and Ryan Howard and Jason Werth(playing as well as he can) are strike-out machines in the NL, and would suffer BIG TIME in the AL. Dude do your research...please. The Phillies are 19-4 since July 3rd. In that time, Jimmy Rollins is batting .320 with an OBP of .393. Total garbage right now. Can't argue with the strikeout numbers for Howard, but you cannot deny that he also hits 1 homerun every 12 at bats for his career (he has led the National League in this area the past 3 seasons). I know exactly what your reply is going to be and you will keep pointing to the strikeout total, but you also cannot argue against his production. You also have to figure that he notoriously increases his production in August and September, and also Raul Ibanez was missing from this lineup for almost a month. Now that he is back Howard will almost surely see better pitches to hit on a more consistent basis. And say what you want about Werth, but I will take a .381 OBP, 21 homeruns, 63 RBI, and 13/15 stolen bases out of my 6 hole hitter any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Also your argument about them suffering in a potential World Series matchup holds little water. Anything can happen in a seven game series, just see last year. I know the Rays had a 7 game LCS while the Phillies only had a 5 game LCS, but what makes you think it will be any different this year since as you put it the Phillies are the class of the NL and the AL is so dominant? Wouldn't that mean the Phillies would just breeze through the NL portion of the playoffs and whoever comes out of the AL will have been through a dog fight? Also, in a seven game series it is all about who is hot at the right time. Last season all of the "experts" thought the Rays would walk all over the Phillies in the World Series, but the Phillies were by far the hotter team. Our pitching managed to make a very good Rays lineup look pedestrian. Can't predict these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Dude do your research...please. The Phillies are 19-4 since July 3rd. In that time, Jimmy Rollins is batting .320 with an OBP of .393. Total garbage right now. Can't argue with the strikeout numbers for Howard, but you cannot deny that he also hits 1 homerun every 12 at bats for his career (he has led the National League in this area the past 3 seasons). I know exactly what your reply is going to be and you will keep pointing to the strikeout total, but you also cannot argue against his production. You also have to figure that he notoriously increases his production in August and September, and also Raul Ibanez was missing from this lineup for almost a month. Now that he is back Howard will almost surely see better pitches to hit on a more consistent basis. And say what you want about Werth, but I will take a .381 OBP, 21 homeruns, 63 RBI, and 13/15 stolen bases out of my 6 hole hitter any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Also your argument about them suffering in a potential World Series matchup holds little water. Anything can happen in a seven game series, just see last year. I know the Rays had a 7 game LCS while the Phillies only had a 5 game LCS, but what makes you think it will be any different this year since as you put it the Phillies are the class of the NL and the AL is so dominant? Wouldn't that mean the Phillies would just breeze through the NL portion of the playoffs and whoever comes out of the AL will have been through a dog fight? Also, in a seven game series it is all about who is hot at the right time. Last season all of the "experts" thought the Rays would walk all over the Phillies in the World Series, but the Phillies were by far the hotter team. Our pitching managed to make a very good Rays lineup look pedestrian. Can't predict these things. I did see that Jimmy Rollins is having a very good July, but he still has a .288 OBP, and that is not good at all, any way you want to cut it. I'm actually pleasantly surprised with Ryan Howard, and the HR's are great, but I will not ignore the strike-outs, and if you want to point it out, Jason Bay and Kevin Youkilis are pretty high up on the list, and I have no problem saying that they have sucked recently, especially Jason Bay. I really don't know what else to say about Jason Werth, as I haven't seen him enough, but strike-outs mean a lot to me in terms of evaluating a player. And, the World Series comment is a little bitterness on my part, but partially how I really feel. I knew once the Tampa Bay Rays beat the Boston Red Sox that they were screwed in the World Series because they were facing a very good offense that was actually healthy, although if I remember correctly, Chase Utley and Ryan Howard struggled in the World Series and the Philadelphia Phillies still managed to win. And, I do feel like the St. Louis Cardinals improved their team a little more than the Philadelphia Phillies, but they are both good teams. Also, I know Cliff Lee has a good ERA, but when I watch him, I just don't get how he does as well as he does because I don't feel as if his stuff is really good, but I guess it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) I will try to go point by point... I did see that Jimmy Rollins is having a very good July, but he still has a .288 OBP, and that is not good at all, any way you want to cut it. I will cut it like this. After the Phillies finished interleague with a series in Toronto, Jimmy Rollins and hitting coach Milt Thompson spent hours upon hours dissecting his swing and they found what they believed to be a mechanical flaw, or "hole", however you want to put it. I am not a hitting guru so I will not even attempt to sound like I know what exactly that is, but they tried to address it starting in the next series in Atlanta. The Mets series (where the Phillies began their 19-4 run) started slightly after that, and Jimmy has played great ever since. Coincidence? I think not. And it is important as all hell for him to be clicking, since this offense needs him and Shane Victorino to be on base wreaking havoc a lot. Shane has been doing it all year, and now that Jimmy is getting into the act this offense has been dynamite (of course I say this the night they get shut out by Yusmiero Petit, but you catch the drift). I'm actually pleasantly surprised with Ryan Howard, and the HR's are great, but I will not ignore the strike-outs, and if you want to point it out, Jason Bay and Kevin Youkilis are pretty high up on the list, and I have no problem saying that they have sucked recently, especially Jason Bay. I will respect this opinion since a lot of highly regarded "baseball people" feel the same way, but to me, if you are driving in 145 runs per season I could give two [expletive]s how you make your outs. I am aware that a strikeout (along with an infield fly ball, or a fly ball to shallow outfield, all depending on the situation of course) are the least productive outs possible. I get just as pissed off as the next guy to see Howard bail on nasty sliders in the dirt with runners on base. However, Ryan Howard is a special kind of player, and you need to learn to take that all with a grain of salt. 811 strikeouts in 5+ seasons is definitely not a number to be ignored, but neither is 576 RBIs or a .583 slugging percentage. I really don't know what else to say about Jason Werth, as I haven't seen him enough, but strike-outs mean a lot to me in terms of evaluating a player. See the points I made above about Howard. Also consider that he is IMO as productive a 6 hole hitter as you will find in baseball. Also consider that he contributes a ton just on sheer athleticism and great defense. I knew once the Tampa Bay Rays beat the Boston Red Sox that they were screwed in the World Series because they were facing a very good offense that was actually healthy, although if I remember correctly, Chase Utley and Ryan Howard struggled in the World Series and the Philadelphia Phillies still managed to win. You would be correct. Just goes to show that pitching is what wins in the postseason. And, I do feel like the St. Louis Cardinals improved their team a little more than the Philadelphia Phillies, but they are both good teams. Eh, up for argument. The Cardinals got Matt Holliday which was an absolute necessity for them to even think about contending, the Phillies got a piece that will hopefully put them over the top. Also, I know Cliff Lee has a good ERA, but when I watch him, I just don't get how he does as well as he does because I don't feel as if his stuff is really good, but I guess it is. I'd be lying if I said I am a Cliff Lee expert. Honestly I have not seen him pitch that much and am using primarily statistics for my judgements. They (for the past year and a half anyway) are just plain impressive, and he is doing that in the American League. Now he gets to come to the [expletive]ty NL East so I am excited to see what he can do over here. Usually it is a very good transition for pitchers. Also the dude is a horse (I believe he leads the AL in innings pitched). Considering that about half of our bullpen is on the DL right now, I am not undervaluing this. Edited July 30, 2009 by Phightins09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Put Ryan Howard and Jason Werth in the AL, and they are #1 and #2 in K's, no question. And, a .288 OBP is downright pathetic. Dude gtfo JAYSON Werth(tired of seeing Jason) would not be first or second in strikeouts. In 18 games against your precious AL East Jayson Werth batted exactly .300 going 21-70 with an average of .8 Strikeouts per game. So his batting average improved and his Strikeouts per game stayed about the same against the AL. Considering the SO leaders average about 1.4 strikeouts per game and Jayson is pretty consistant with the .8-1 strikeouts per game there's no way he leads the league in K's. Bullllll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 pretty much everything i was gonna say was covered in the monster of a post above, but just to add to the werth thing that he was great in the playoffs last year and was really important to their success, especially in the playoffs. and a stat i really liked about lee is that he had the second least flyballs of any pitcher (AL or MLB, i forget). that is pretty important in a homerun friendly park like philly. he is gonna do great here and i have no reason to think otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) Dude gtfo JAYSON Werth(tired of seeing Jason) he spelled werth as worth earlier too I'm sorry, but I just think that the NL is complete [expletive], and the only team that I can see actually standing a chance in the AL is the Philadelphia Phillies, although I think they would really suffer because of Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins, and Jason Worth. Edited July 30, 2009 by fly3rs18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) he spelled werth as worth earlier too I love the people who think the Phillies roster is comprised of Jason Worth, Ryan Madsen, Cole Hammels, Brett Meyers, and Rodrigo Lopes. Usually it is "diehard" Phillies fans though, and that REALLY pisses me off. Edited July 30, 2009 by Phightins09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trutrojan8 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Haven't read much of this thread, but the Phillies have the NL East on lock. Calling the Dodgers pathetic though is a joke. Best record in baseball, regardless of division, isn't something to overlook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 of course the phils have the NL east, it was the NL that was the discussion. and if you were refering to my post about the dodgers, i never said they were bad, or even remotely, i just said that i thought the phillies are better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N4S Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) I'd say that the New York Yankees, L.A. Dodgers, St. Louis Cardinals, and the Boston Red Sox are all in the "Top 5" with the Philadelphia Phillies right now, and the Tampa Bay Rays are right there as well. I'm sorry, but I just think that the NL is complete [expletive], and the only team that I can see actually standing a chance in the AL is the Philadelphia Phillies, although I think they would really suffer because of Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins, and Jason Worth. You truely are a [expletive]ing idiot sometimes. I think 90% of your forum posts revolve around 2 things. - arguing with people - being biased Sure, I'm glad you don't think the Phillies are a threat. Last year the whole league thought the same thing. And this "although I think they would really suffer because of Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins, and Jason Worth" is probably the dumbest thing I've read on here in a few weeks. Edited July 30, 2009 by N4S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) You truely are a [expletive]ing idiot sometimes. I think 90% of your forum posts revolve around 2 things. - arguing with people - being biased Sure, I'm glad you don't think the Phillies are a threat. Last year the whole league thought the same thing. And this "although I think they would really suffer because of Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins, and Jason Worth" is probably the dumbest thing I've read on here in a few weeks. Way to take a post out of context as you like to do. This has nothing to do with arguing or being biased, at all. 1. You're seriously a complete moron because I said " I'm sorry, but I just think that the NL is complete [expletive], and the only team that I can see actually standing a chance in the AL is the Philadelphia Phillies, although I think they would really suffer because of Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins, and Jason Worth." 2. I never said the Philadelphia Phillies weren't a threat. 3. I have said that the Boston Red Sox have sucked, so there goes your "bias" point. 4. I have said the Philadelphia Phillies are good and have improved. And, you will find many people that will say the same exact thing about Ryan Howard and Jason WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEErth in particular. Also, I love how you guys like to point out a spelling mistake when I have spelled his name correctly in this thread and mistyped it. People do that when they don't want to respond to a point. So, Paul, so much for your post which was completely off-base. . Edited July 30, 2009 by EastCoastNiner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Not to nitpick, but you are still spelling it wrong lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Not to nitpick, but you are still spelling it wrong lol. I can't tell if you are being sarcastic, or didn't noticed that the incorrect spelling was from an earlier post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I can't tell if you are being sarcastic, or didn't noticed that the incorrect spelling was from an earlier post. Wasn't necessarily sarcastic because you did spell it wrong again (his first name is spelled Jayson) but I don't really care lol. I am just joking around. I actually meant to throw a smiley of some sort onto that post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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