Why do people think Rose is MVP?

[Real Deal]

LOL at some of these people that would've NEVER made statistical and individual performance arguments back in 2005 and 2006, when Kobe Bryant was clearly the best player the NBA had seen since MJ.

 

Makes me sick to my stomach that none of them would've made those arguments for LeBron last season, either.

[magicbalala245]

Does Kobe Bryant get the MVP if LA catches San Antonio and gets the best record in the league?

[Real Deal]

Does Kobe Bryant get the MVP if LA catches San Antonio and gets the best record in the league?

Kobe would have to average 40 PPG to get another MVP.

[Check my Stats]

The only way I see Kobe getting it is if Lakers win 60 and Bulls don't, but even then, I think that would be a stretch. At this point you definitely have to make a case for Kobe thanks to this late surge. Lakers are putting up the quietest hot streak in recent memory it feels like.

 

It feels like Rose has this wrapped up, and not having an MVP in your career always works in your favour (I still feel like Kobe only won it over CP3 a few years ago for that reason, but then again Kobe should have gotten his in his 36 PPG season, so I guess that sort of makes up for it).

[magicbalala245]

Kobe would have to average 40 PPG to get another MVP.

 

That's not a stretch actually during this last 3 games LA has won Kobe has averaged 36.3 points per game.

[Guest N/A]

LOL at some of these people that would've NEVER made statistical and individual performance arguments back in 2005 and 2006, when Kobe Bryant was clearly the best player the NBA had seen since MJ.

 

Makes me sick to my stomach that none of them would've made those arguments for LeBron last season, either.

 

I wanted Kobe to be MVP in 05 and 06 and LeBron to win in 09 and 10.

[Erick Blasco]

I'm just going to leave this here:

 

 

 

 

I was browsing some of my favorite NBA sites the other day when I was suddenly struck by sense of déjà vu. I was reading about the various playoff races, potential seedings and the regular season MVP award. It sounded so very familiar that it stopped me in my tracks. I made a quick list of my observations and it looked like this:

 

1. The league's best record belongs to the Spurs.

 

2. The Lakers are neck and neck with the Eastern Conference's best team for the second best overall record and potentially home court advantage in the finals should they meet.

 

3. The best team in the East has a top tier defense and only a mediocre offense.

 

4. The front-runners for MVP are a score-first PG and a big man called "Superman."

 

 

 

Doesn’t that sound familiar? Let's rewind exactly 10 years to the 2000-2001 season and look at those same four points again.

 

In the 2000-01 season, the Spurs finished with the best overall record with 58 wins, and the Lakers finished tied with the Sixers for the second best overall record in the league at 56 wins. Those same Sixers were a team built around defense first and offense second. They finished less than 1 point per 100 possessions behind first for the overall best defense in the league, but ranked just 13th offensively. This year, the Spurs will run away with the league’s best record somewhere in the mid sixties, and the Lakers are one game back in the loss column with a couple of Eastern Conference teams who both have spectacular defenses and mediocre offenses. But the most interesting discussion revolves around that fourth point, the MVP race.

 

This year's MVP race appears be down to Derrick Rose, Dwight Howard and LeBron James. The frontrunner is Rose, the leader of the team with the best record in the East. Howard, a monster inside anchoring one of the best defenses in the league while also being the focal point on offense, is second. And then there's LeBron, who is putting up another very impressive season statistically, providing a triple double threat every night while playing great defense as well. Unfortunately for Howard and James, their teams have struggled relative to expectations. Chicago, on the other hand, is way ahead of schedule in terms of becoming an elite team, and as they appear to be pulling away with the EC crown, all signs point to Rose being awarded with the MVP. But is this the right call? Are the voters potentially making the same mistake they did 10 years ago?

 

 

 

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/images/blog/star-divide.v777cf8a.jpg

 

 

 

Ten years ago,

 

Allen Iverson was awarded the MVP trophy over Shaquille O’Neal. His 31.1 points per game were the best in the league, and Philadelphia’s run to the best record in the Eastern Conference was a major surprise. AI was the face of a franchise that was utterly devoid of any other faces. It only made sense that the voters embraced the small, dynamic guard who led his team to unexpected heights. But dig a little deeper into the numbers and the selection appears a little dubious to say the least.

 

The Sixers were a team that won games with their defense, not their offense. They featured a roster of defensively skilled players such as Dikembe Mutombo, Theo Ratliff and Eric Snow (all three won All-NBA Defensive team honors during their careers). The role players were defensively oriented as well. Outside of Iverson, there wasn’t much offensive talent to be seen. For crying out loud, Theo Ratliff was the team’s second leading scorer with a whopping 12 points per game. The result was a team that choked off the opposition, and relied on Allen Iverson to create enough offense to win games, and so he did. The Sixers' offense was merely average but in this case, average was enough.

 

This year, the Chicago Bulls are following the same blueprint. They are tied for first with Boston for the best defense in the league. They, like the 2001 Sixers, have one of the best defensive center rotations in the league with Joakim Noah and the underrated Omer Asik. They also have very solid defenders on the wings with Luol Deng and Ronnie Brewer. The team has essentially built a great defensive squad so it can hold opponents to a very low point total and ask Derrick Rose to simply generate enough offense for himself and teammates to win the game, and like Iverson, Rose has done so quite successfully.

 

Statistically they both carried similar offensive loads for their teams:

 

Iverson was almost purely a scorer that year, averaging only 4.6 assists while Rose has done a better job of blending his scoring with the distributing duties of a traditional point guard. While they may have gone about it in a slightly different manner, the results are strikingly similar in that each player generated roughly 45% of their team's offense via the shot and pass.

 

Even the advanced statistics show many similarities as well:

 

 

They both have similar PERs, usage rates and Win Shares (both offensively and defensively). Rose is a slightly more efficient scorer than Iverson was, but he is also a little more turnover prone. The end result is that both players produced similarly for their teams. Given the similarities between the two situations and results, it would only seem reasonable for Rose to win the MVP award like Iverson did. But did Iverson deserve to win that MVP in the first place?

 

While no advanced stat is perfect, history has shown that PER and Win Shares are highly correlated with the MVP award (as they should be). After all, if a player is efficient and contributes wins, then he is doing something right. Almost every MVP over the last dozen seasons has been in the top 5 in Win Shares and PER. However, Iverson was ranked 7th and 10th respectively. Meanwhile Rose is currently ranked 12th and 6th respectively. By these two statistics neither player appears to be MVP worthy. Both appear to be benefitting from their team's record (which voters tend to weigh heavily) and the fact that they put up great offensive numbers on teams that won with defense. Neither player was a great defender either.

 

In fact, one could argue that the Rose is somewhat of a defensive liability. Here is a chart showing the Bulls' defensive efficiency when each player is not on the court.

 

As you can see, Rose sticks out like a sore thumb. The team is significantly better defensively when he is not on the court. Some may say this is because he goes against the opposition's starters, who are more skilled than the bench, but so do Noah, Boozer and Deng. To Rose's credit, if I were to show the same graph focusing on offense, it would be exactly the opposite. When Rose is not on the court the offense becomes much worse and no other player on the team has a similar impact. Essentially, Rose's superior offense helps to cover up for his defensive liabilities. This helps explain why Rose is not in the top five in Win Shares, which take into account both offense and defense. But that begs the following question: Shouldn't the MVP be solid on both ends of the floor?"

 

...and more after the link,

 

 

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2011/3/23/2068061/dwight-howard-should-win-mvp-because-weve-been-through-this-before

[Flash]

^^Agree with a lot that article said. IMO, Rose is third behind Dwight and LBJ. Dwight gets my vote because not only is he the best big man in the NBA putting up great stats, but he really is the most valuable player when you talk about importance to a good team. The Magic's supporting cast might be as bad as what LBJ was playing around in Cleveland.

 

A the same time, you have LBJ who is hands down the best, most productive player in the NBA who would make history with an MVP this year but playing alongside Wade is hurting his chances. However, if we end up catching Chicago the debate should get much more interesting.

[NomarFachix]

Dwight gets my vote because not only is he the best big man in the NBA putting up great stats, but he really is the most valuable player when you talk about importance to a good team.

Really let his team down in crunchtime tonight against the hapless Knicks.

[Flash]

Really let his team down in crunchtime tonight against the hapless Knicks.

 

And Derrick Rose has 10 turnovers against Philly tonight.

 

That Magic team without Dwight is fighting for the top pick with Cleveland this season.

[Real Deal]

Cool comparison between this season, and the 2000-01 season. I'm sure those comparisons will last through June as well, almost identically.

[NomarFachix]

And Derrick Rose has 10 turnovers against Philly tonight.

 

That Magic team without Dwight is fighting for the top pick with Cleveland this season.

 

lol easy Skipper, don't need you to read me Rose's stat sheet. Only reason I mentioned Dwight was because I watched the game (a rarity for me these days) and his disappearance/implosion in the final 5 minutes of regulation and overtime isn't evident in a scorecard, and they made his gaudy stats a touch hollow.

 

The Magic without Dwight are still vastly more talented than many teams in the league, believe it or not. They wouldn't have dealt VC or Gortat, and they're instantly better than Detroit and down in the East. On the same note, what are the Bulls without Rose? Same situation, really. C.J. Watson running the show?

 

They're both vastly important to their team's success, I wouldn't rank one's importance higher than another's. But that's just my opinion.

[The Truth]

^^Agree with a lot that article said. IMO, Rose is third behind Dwight and LBJ. Dwight gets my vote because not only is he the best big man in the NBA putting up great stats, but he really is the most valuable player when you talk about importance to a good team. The Magic's supporting cast might be as bad as what LBJ was playing around in Cleveland.

 

A the same time, you have LBJ who is hands down the best, most productive player in the NBA who would make history with an MVP this year but playing alongside Wade is hurting his chances. However, if we end up catching Chicago the debate should get much more interesting.

you took the words out of my mouth, sir.

 

great article btw. I agree with the author. Howard should win this year's MVP. Rose gets all the credit even though he's arguably the worst defender in Chicago's starting line. if you're going to use that LeBron has Wade argument, you also have to realize Rose has Deng, Boozer, and Noah. those three players combined are way more impressive than just Wade. the Magic are pathetic without Howard and they're still a contender just because of him. looking back at those stats, it seems Shaq should've won the award in '01 as well.

[Flash]

A lot of it has to do with the expectations people had for both Miami and Chicago this year. ESPN and other MSM outlets were talking about us breaking the Bulls' record and all that crap when in reality we're a team in year 1 of a major overhaul that should be around 60 wins, which is where we should finish IMO. Meanwhile, anyone who knew anything knew Chicago was going to be very good, maybe not top overall seed good, but let's not act like they have 6th seed talent or anything.

[Big Penny]

you took the words out of my mouth, sir.

 

great article btw. I agree with the author. Howard should win this year's MVP. Rose gets all the credit even though he's arguably the worst defender in Chicago's starting line. if you're going to use that LeBron has Wade argument, you also have to realize Rose has Deng, Boozer, and Noah. those three players combined are way more impressive than just Wade. the Magic are pathetic without Howard and they're still a contender just because of him. looking back at those stats, it seems Shaq should've won the award in '01 as well.

Of course those 3 players together are better than Wade... they're 3 players. That's like saying "LeBron shouldn't have won last year, he had Mo Williams, Anderson Varejo and Antawn Jamison. Those 3 players combined are way more impressive than just Gasol!"

 

LeBron James is playing with a perennial All-NBA First team candidate and another perennial All-Star. I don't give a [expletive] about his stats, he is not MVP, no matter which way you spin it.

[Real Deal]

Here's the funniest part of that article...

 

The result was a team that choked off the opposition, and relied on Allen Iverson to create enough offense to win games, and so he did.

Oh! Most valuable player then, right?

 

Could the Philly defense hold opponents to 60 PPG? Otherwise, I'm really not sure how they were going to win games without scoring.

 

Allen Iverson's Sixers were the only team to beat the Lakers in the playoffs (in one game of the series). It was behind Iverson's 48 points. Would anyone like to list the amount of times Iverson doubled, or even tripled, the second leading scorer on his team in each game that season?

 

Defense wins championships...if you can score. Anyone know the teams that have been ranked worse than 15th (worst half of the NBA) in offense and STILL won it all since 1980? Try Detroit, in 2004...and that's it.

 

How valuable was Iverson that season? MVP valuable because he drew in the entire defense, fed his shooters, and scored the points they couldn't. Maybe some of you didn't actually watch the team, so forgive me for being harsh...but the writer is dead wrong if he's going to say Iverson didn't deserve his MVP.

[Flash]

Of course those 3 players together are better than Wade... they're 3 players. That's like saying "LeBron shouldn't have won last year, he had Mo Williams, Anderson Varejo and Antawn Jamison. Those 3 players combined are way more impressive than just Gasol!"

 

LeBron James is playing with a perennial All-NBA First team candidate and another perennial All-Star. I don't give a [expletive] about his stats, he is not MVP, no matter which way you spin it.

 

So then how did Mike win his awards playing with Pippen? Because all his MVP's came while playing with Pippen.

[Nitro]

Back a few months ago I said LeBron should have won it, but the fact that the Bulls jumped up to 1st, including beating the Heat twice in the last month or so has made me change my vote to Rose. His stats aren't as good as LeBron, and he quite frankly is still at least a notch or two below LeBron's level. but he's done more with less and his team is on top of the East.

 

I picked Dwight to win it before the season started, and it's a damn shame the Magic haven't played up to expectations because he has been absolutely ridiculous this season. Of all the superstars he is the most valuable to his team.

[kingfish]

If Lakers finish with best record Kobe should get MVP.

[Flash]

Back a few months ago I said LeBron should have won it, but the fact that the Bulls jumped up to 1st, including beating the Heat twice in the last month or so has made me change my vote to Rose. His stats aren't as good as LeBron, and he quite frankly is still at least a notch or two below LeBron's level. but he's done more with less and his team is on top of the East.

 

I picked Dwight to win it before the season started, and it's a damn shame the Magic haven't played up to expectations because he has been absolutely ridiculous this season. Of all the superstars he is the most valuable to his team.

 

Welcome back my dude, hope you're doing well.

[Real Deal]

If Lakers finish with best record Kobe should get MVP.

According to the criteria, he shouldn't. If we were talking Jordan era, then yes...because Mike was winning them with Pippen and Rodman/Grant on his side, but since he retired, it's much different...the same reason why Kobe and Shaq have a combined two MVP's.

 

Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Artest...they make it tough for Kobe to win it. He should've gotten it in 2006, but no reason to bother with it now.

 

Rose and Howard are the two that should be considered, as long as Orlando reaches the 50-win mark (and they will). If the Bulls win the East, Rose is the unanimous choice.

[Guest N/A]

According to the criteria, he shouldn't. If we were talking Jordan era, then yes...because Mike was winning them with Pippen and Rodman/Grant on his side, but since he retired, it's much different...the same reason why Kobe and Shaq have a combined two MVP's.

 

Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Artest...they make it tough for Kobe to win it. He should've gotten it in 2006, but no reason to bother with it now.

 

Rose and Howard are the two that should be considered, as long as Orlando reaches the 50-win mark (and they will). If the Bulls win the East, Rose is the unanimous choice.

 

MVP candidates in order should be Howard, Kobe, Dirk, Rose, Wade.

[The Truth]

Last year's league MVP LeBron James has endorsed Derrick Rose as his choice for this year's MVP.

 

"What he's done for that team, with all the injuries they have and them being first in the Eastern Conference. They're playing some really good basketball," James said. "He's playing some unbelievable basketball."

 

James doesn't think the Heat has a serious candidate for MVP because he and Dwyane Wade have canceled each other out.

 

Dirk Nowitzki was James' choice until the Dallas power forward was injured.

 

"You've got some guys here that have done their job also," James said. "But Derrick Rose definitely has gotten a lot of the exposure and a lot of the media attention because of the work he's done. He's playing some unbelievable basketball."

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/212711/LeBron_Endorses_Rose_For_MVP#ixzz1ID982WlW

[Buckets!]

LBJ already got his two MVPs, he doesn't need 3.

[Real Deal]

James doesn't think the Heat has a serious candidate for MVP because he and Dwyane Wade have canceled each other out.

Good for him.