BadgerFan Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Honestly, I think its the Yankees no contest. Don't see how people justify putting the Sox in there, they consistently have the most over rated hitters in baseball. Varitek, Pedroia, Crawford, Ellsbury... How is Carl Crawford overrated? 4 out of the last 5 seasons he has hit over .300 with a OBP of .348 or higher. He has played in 135+ games in 4 of his last 5 seasons, and he has stolen 182 bases the last 5 years. Here, I'll make this a bit easier. Stats averaged out the past 5 years: G: 143 AVG: .301OBP: .348HR: 14RBI: 74R: 91BB: 39K: 92SB: 48CS: 10WAR: 4.5UZR: 12.04 I don't see how a .300 AVG, .350 OBP average the last 5 seasons is overrated. These stats include his injured/awful year in 2008 where he hit .270ish and only played in 109 games. In 2004 and 2005 his average was near or over .300 as well. Last 2 seasons, Crawford's WAR has been over 5.5 and last year it was 6.9. His UZR has been getting better year after year as well. I'll give you Ellsbury, and Varitek, but Crawford and Pedroia are not overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish7718 Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) How is Carl Crawford overrated? 4 out of the last 5 seasons he has hit over .300 with a OBP of .348 or higher. He has played in 135+ games in 4 of his last 5 seasons, and he has stolen 182 bases the last 5 years. Here, I'll make this a bit easier. Stats averaged out the past 5 years: G: 143 AVG: .301OBP: .348HR: 14RBI: 74R: 91BB: 39K: 92SB: 48CS: 10WAR: 4.5UZR: 12.04 I don't see how a .300 AVG, .350 OBP average the last 5 seasons is overrated. These stats include his injured/awful year in 2008 where he hit .270ish and only played in 109 games. In 2004 and 2005 his average was near or over .300 as well.LOL, .348 OBP is good? It's respectable, about it. A Player of his 'hype' should be holding down at least a .360 to .370. I love how you covientenly leave out OPS, a great stat in the judgment of a player and throw in sabr crap. Career .781 OPS is exactly what I'd expect from Crawford, making him an above average hitter with a lot of speed. Considering people call him one of the best LF's in the game, he is VERY over rated. ECN just said Pedroia = Cano, that is my case for why Pedroia is over rated. He's a good hitter but certainly no comparable to Robbie Cano, especially after last season. Let me just say they are good players, but they are not top players. I'll make my argument on Crawford easier Player A G: 143 AVG: .301OBP: .348SLG: .462OPS: .810HR: 14RBI: 74R: 91BB: 39K: 92SB: 48Runs Produced: 151 Player B G: 151 AVG: .268OBP: .343SLG: .481OPS: .824HR: 24RBI: 98R: 69BB: 63K: 137SB: 16Runs Produced: 143 Player C G: 155 AVG: .282OBP: .371SLG: .447OPS: .817HR: 18RBI: 96R: 102BB: 84K: 117SB: 25Runs Produced: 180 Player A - Carl CrawfordPlayer B - Curtis GrandersonPlayer C - Bobby Abreu Who cares if Crawford is stealing 50 bases a year if he only produces 150 runs tbh...and that's why he's over rated. Looking at these stats you can make a case Abreu > Crawford offensively.. Edited April 2, 2011 by fish7718 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerFan Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) I can't believe you are really comparing Carl Crawford to Curtis Granderson. Crawford isn't a power hitter, therefore his OPS and SLG percentage will be down compared to a more of a power hitter. Crawford's last 3/4 seasons, his OBP was over .350 including one year it was .360. He doesn't walk nearly as much as Granderson/Abreu, hence the lower OBP. I don't think CC is the best LF in the game, but he is a VERY good player, and someone who plays awesome defense, and can steal bases for you. Also, funny how you don't mention Abreu or Granderson's WAR and UZR. These stats show how valuable a player is and how good his defense is. WAR Crawford: 4.5 (last 2 seasons: 5.7, 6.9)Abreu: 2.6 (last 2 seasons: 2.9, 2.2)Granderson: 4.24 (last 2 seasons: 3.0, 3.6 had a 7.4 WAR in 2006, since then was below 3.5) UZR: Crawford: 12.04Abreu: -10.94Granderson: 3.96 Crawford is far more valuable than Granderson and Abreu, and he is by far a better defender. I'll take a very good defender, and a player who can put up 50 SB a season rather then more of a power hitter. ECN just said Pedroia = Cano, that is my case for why Pedroia is over rated. He's a good hitter but certainly no comparable to Robbie Cano, especially after last season. Pedroia was hurt last season.Take a look at 2008 and 2009. Pedroia: 2008: 157 G, .326 AVG, .376 OBP, .493 SLG, .869 OPS, 50 BB, 52 K, 6.6 WAR2009: 154 G, .296 AVG, .371 OBP, .447 SLG, .818 OPS, 74 BB, 45 K, 5.0 WAR Cano: 2008: 159 G, .271 AVG, .305 OBP, .410 SLG, .715 OPS, 26 BB, 65 K, 0.2 WAR2009: 161 G, .320 AVG, .352 OBP, .520 SLG, .872 OPS, 57 BB, 77 K, 4.4 WAR So if you compare 2008 and 2009 it's pretty close. Career wise: Cano: 895 G, .309 AVG, .346 OBP, .489 SLG, .835 OPS, 116 HR, 20 SBPedroia: 557 G, .304 AVG, .369 OBP, .460 SLG, .829 OPS, 54 HR, 56 SB I would take Cano over Pedroia, don't get me wrong, but Pedroia is a very good player. Edited April 2, 2011 by BadgerFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomarFachix Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) I can't believe you are really comparing Carl Crawford to Curtis Granderson. Crawford isn't a power hitter, therefore his OPS and SLG percentage will be down compared to a more of a power hitter. Crawford's last 3/4 seasons, his OBP was over .350 including one year it was .360. He doesn't walk nearly as much as Granderson/Abreu, hence the lower OBP. I don't think CC is the best LF in the game, but he is a VERY good player, and someone who plays awesome defense, and can steal bases for you. Also, funny how you don't mention Abreu or Granderson's WAR and UZR. These stats show how valuable a player is and how good his defense is. WAR Crawford: 4.5 (last 2 seasons: 5.7, 6.9)Abreu: 2.6 (last 2 seasons: 2.9, 2.2)Granderson: 4.24 (last 2 seasons: 3.0, 3.6 had a 7.4 WAR in 2006, since then was below 3.5) UZR: Crawford: 12.04Abreu: -10.94Granderson: 3.96 Crawford is far more valuable than Granderson and Abreu, and he is by far a better defender. I'll take a very good defender, and a player who can put up 50 SB a season rather then more of a power hitter.Crawford is absolutely overrated. Career OPS marks are terrible, hell, even his OBP marks are nothing to write home about. He's fast and steals bases when he gets on, which is less frequently than he should. Grossly overpaid this offseason. Pedroia was hurt last season.Take a look at 2008 and 2009. Pedroia: 2008: 157 G, .326 AVG, .376 OBP, .493 SLG, .869 OPS, 50 BB, 52 K, 6.6 WAR2009: 154 G, .296 AVG, .371 OBP, .447 SLG, .818 OPS, 74 BB, 45 K, 5.0 WAR Cano: 2008: 159 G, .271 AVG, .305 OBP, .410 SLG, .715 OPS, 26 BB, 65 K, 0.2 WAR2009: 161 G, .320 AVG, .352 OBP, .520 SLG, .872 OPS, 57 BB, 77 K, 4.4 WAR So if you compare 2008 and 2009 it's pretty close. Career wise: Cano: 895 G, .309 AVG, .346 OBP, .489 SLG, .835 OPS, 116 HR, 20 SBPedroia: 557 G, .304 AVG, .369 OBP, .460 SLG, .829 OPS, 54 HR, 56 SB I would take Cano over Pedroia, don't get me wrong, but Pedroia is a very good player.Why would you choose not to include Cano's 2010? Why, if we're discussing who is better now, would you talk solely about 2008 and 2009? Just makes no sense. "Let's use 2008 as a measuring stick, since Pedroia had the best season of his career and Cano his worst. THAT'll show 'em I'm right!" Come on now. If you're even putting Pedroia close right now you're out of your mind. Edited April 2, 2011 by NomarFachix 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomarFachix Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 FWIW [expletive] WAR/WORP/TORP/ZORP/UZR/ZR% and all that garbage... I watch baseball. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerFan Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Pedroia was hurt pretty much all of last year, hence why I didn't use 2010 stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomarFachix Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Pedroia was hurt pretty much all of last year, hence why I didn't use 2010 stats.So use Pedroia's 2008 and 2009 and Cano's 2009 and 2010, if anything. Can't wipe clear a guy's career year because it helps your argument, duder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish7718 Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 I can't believe you are really comparing Carl Crawford to Curtis Granderson. WAR Crawford: 4.5 (last 2 seasons: 5.7, 6.9)Granderson: 4.24 Crawford is far more valuable than Granderson and Abreu, and he is by far a better defender. I'll take a very good defender, and a player who can put up 50 SB a season rather then more of a power hitter. You're missing the point...who cares if Crawford can steal bases if he's not producing a significant amount of runs off the steals. I wasn't even saying Granderson = Crawford, but the fact you got that from me posting those stats is funny because it shows you took some belief in it.Pedroia was hurt last season.Take a look at 2008 and 2009. Pedroia: 2008: 157 G, .326 AVG, .376 OBP, .493 SLG, .869 OPS, 50 BB, 52 K, 6.6 WAR2009: 154 G, .296 AVG, .371 OBP, .447 SLG, .818 OPS, 74 BB, 45 K, 5.0 WAR Cano: 2008: 159 G, .271 AVG, .305 OBP, .410 SLG, .715 OPS, 26 BB, 65 K, 0.2 WAR2009: 161 G, .320 AVG, .352 OBP, .520 SLG, .872 OPS, 57 BB, 77 K, 4.4 WAR So if you compare 2008 and 2009 it's pretty close. Career wise: Cano: 895 G, .309 AVG, .346 OBP, .489 SLG, .835 OPS, 116 HR, 20 SBPedroia: 557 G, .304 AVG, .369 OBP, .460 SLG, .829 OPS, 54 HR, 56 SB I would take Cano over Pedroia, don't get me wrong, but Pedroia is a very good player.LOL, yes lets take Pedroias MVP season and ignore Cano's top 3 MVP season -_- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) I am in a hurry and can't read all of these posts right now, but Crawford is the most overrated player in baseball. Not saying he is bad, but he is the highest paid outfielder in Major League history with a .780 career OPS. I think that is like, 40th among active outfielders. I realize he impacts the game with his speed and athleticism also, that's cool. But the bottom line is he is a corner outfielder with a career .780 OPS, yet he's regarded as an elite player. Apologies if these points were made already, as I said I am in a hurry. Edited April 2, 2011 by Phightins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomarFachix Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 It's very simple to prove that the Rockies will have the best offense in baseball... http://i54.tinypic.com/sdg460.jpg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish7718 Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Money it's gotta be the thong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomarFachix Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 lmao! definitely the golden thong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren2ThaG Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Rangers. thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 They scored 20 less runs than the Yankees this year (and 11 less than Red Sox). But with that said, solid cases can be made for all three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted October 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 They scored 20 less runs than the Yankees this year (and 11 less than Red Sox). But with that said, solid cases can be made for all three. I was waiting for this to be bumped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish7718 Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 :glasses: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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