EastCoastNiner Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371861/NHS-director-dies-operation-cancelled-times-hospital.html Lets cancel a cancer patients treatment four times because they will surely live! This would never happen if those fools would come to reality that socialism is another word for failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkr Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 capitalism in medicine=great. we have so much competition with all of 2 health insurance providers in each state. not to mention both do everything in their power to screw over the customer. i like how you have to use an example from a foreign country though when I can easily provide you with examples and personal experiences of how corrupt the US health care system is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 There is a TON of cases of this and there is also of ton more of cases were individuals can't afford treatment and pass away. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JYD Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) You should really watch a movie like John Q, or really looking into the Health care industry in America. I forget the Michael Moore documentary on Health care, but it was quite interesting. Definitely biased to an extent (not saying it didn't have an agenda) had a lot of interesting facts in it...but I was on the fence about a health care bill that would make more government involvement but when I saw those two in particular I started leaning towards what Obama and Hillary Clinton for a while has called for... Another great book on the health care problem in America, Pretty good read I'd highly suggest it:http://www.amazon.com/Critical-What-About-Health-Care-Crisis/dp/0312383010 Edited April 7, 2011 by JYD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkr Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 There is a TON of cases of this and there is also of ton more of cases were individuals can't afford treatment and pass away.exactly, the US already leaves people to die 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 There's a reason why more and more European countries are moving away from these practices. Canada's health care system is a major fail as well whether you guys will admit it or not. Socialized medicine = FAIL and more useless spending. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JYD Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 There's a reason why more and more European countries are moving away from these practices. Canada's health care system is a major fail as well whether you guys will admit it or not. Socialized medicine = FAIL and more useless spending.Who are you to say? From what I've read on the topic of Health Care worldwide, the Canadian system for the most part is considered a success, sure it has it's flaws (as pretty much any system will have - and I don't think a complete gov't overtake is the right thing for the Health Care system anyway).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Who are you to say? From what I've read on the topic of Health Care worldwide, the Canadian system for the most part is considered a success, sure it has it's flaws (as pretty much any system will have - and I don't think a complete gov't overtake is the right thing for the Health Care system anyway).... HOW GOOD IS CANADIAN HEALTH CARE?When compared to other Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development (OECD) countries that have publicly funded, universal access health care systems, evidence suggests that the Canadian model is inferior, say the authors of a new Fraser Institute study. Consider: Estimates indicate that Canada spends more on health care than all OECD nations with "universal access" health care systems save Iceland.Canada does not rank first in any of the seven health care outcome categories or in any of the comparisons of access to care, supply of technologies, or supply of physicians.Canada is the only country in the industrialized world that outlaws a parallel private health care system for its citizens.On an age-adjusted basis, Canada has among the fewest number of physicians in the OECD: Canada ranks 24th out of 28 countries with 2.3 doctors per 1,000 people for a total of 66,583 doctors; only Turkey, Japan, the United Kingdom and Finland have fewer doctors.To be comparable to first-place Iceland, Canada would need 57,071 more doctors than it had in 2003.In 1970, when public insurance first fully applied to physician services, Canada placed second among the countries that could be ranked in that year.The overwhelming evidence is that, in comparative terms, the Canadian system produces longer waiting times, and is less successful in preventing death from preventable causes, and costs more than almost all of the other systems that have comparable objectives. To improve on this underperformance, say the authors, the system needs to emulate the more successful models of universal care -- such as allowing privately funded purchases and private medicine. Source: Nadeem Esmail and Michael Walker, "How Good Is Canadian Health Care? 2006 Report," Fraser Institute, December 2006. Even the guy who had a huge hand in creating the system says its a failure lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JYD Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Even the guy who had a huge hand in creating the system says its a failure lol.Interesting. From what I've heard from Canadian citizens, they seem to think their health care system is pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Interesting. From what I've heard from Canadian citizens, they seem to think their health care system is pretty good. "Back in the 1960s, (Claude) Castonguay chaired a Canadian government committee studying health reform and recommended that his home province of Quebec — then the largest and most affluent in the country — adopt government-administered health care, covering all citizens through tax levies. The government followed his advice, leading to his modern-day moniker: "the father of Quebec medicare." Even this title seems modest; Castonguay's work triggered a domino effect across the country, until eventually his ideas were implemented from coast to coast." Four decades later, as the chairman of a government committee reviewing Quebec health care this year, Castonguay concluded that the system is in "crisis." "We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it," says Castonguay. But now he prescribes a radical overhaul: "We are proposing to give a greater role to the private sector so that people can exercise freedom of choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JYD Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 That doesn't really counter my claim that the average Canadian citizen likes it, though...Government involvement in Health Care is supposed to help the middle-class and low-class... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I don't mean to pile on, JYD, because I understand your point. But I just wanted to point out the shortcomings of the system, mainly in Canada even though people seem to think its all good there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkr Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 So his biggest gripe is that people don't have a choice? Doesn't sound like the worst possible thing, as people here are left without choice too if they can't afford insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 So his biggest gripe is that people don't have a choice? Doesn't sound like the worst possible thing, as people here are left without choice too if they can't afford insurance. Its not bad that people don't have a choice? Are you kidding me? Forcing someone into paying for health care is beyond absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JYD Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Its not bad that people don't have a choice? Are you kidding me? Forcing someone into paying for health care is beyond absurd.Here's a very good take on it by Paul Krugman NY Times Columnist and Princeton professor, one of the best writers in the U.S. right now. I'd love to meet this guy. The first of these myths, which has been all over the airwaves lately, is the claim that President Obama is proposing a government takeover of one-sixth of the economy, the share of G.D.P. currently spent on health. Well, if having the government regulate and subsidize health insurance is a “takeover,” that takeover happened long ago. Medicare, Medicaid, and other government programs already pay for almost half of American health care, while private insurance pays for barely more than a third (the rest is mostly out-of-pocket expenses). And the great bulk of that private insurance is provided via employee plans, which are both subsidized with tax exemptions and tightly regulated. The only part of health care in which there isn’t already a lot of federal intervention is the market in which individuals who can’t get employment-based coverage buy their own insurance. And that market, in case you hadn’t noticed, is a disaster — no coverage for people with pre-existing medical conditions, coverage dropped when you get sick, and huge premium increases in the middle of an economic crisis. It’s this sector, plus the plight of Americans with no insurance at all, that reform aims to fix. What’s wrong with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkr Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Its not bad that people don't have a choice? Are you kidding me? Forcing someone into paying for health care is beyond absurd.Oh lawd do you need better reading comprehension skills. Either that or you intentionally ignore the irony of my statement by the support I gave it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YugoRocketsFan Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/YugoRocketsFan/wewiejioej.jpg The world needs a socialized healthcare system like Denmark's or Finland's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkr Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I'd plus one you JYD, but I'm on the mobile site. Unfortunately you're preaching to deaf ears 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkr Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/YugoRocketsFan/wewiejioej.jpg The world needs a socialized healthcare system like Denmark's or Finland's.Nah man, we have to protect the insanely rich business conglomerates rather than our fellow, common man. It's hypocritical too, giving the Anglophobic history of this country and opposition of the old British class system given the fact we are now resembling it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JYD Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I love how Republicans and right-wingers cry about the "obamacare" as they call it, but when it comes to Progressive legislation such as Medicare or Social Security for Seniors, or even unemployment insurance, they are quick to say that those programs should not be cut. But when very similar programs are presented today, it's automatically socialism. It's honestly laughable that average American's buy into that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkr Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gBfPhsdsZ_-rFsZiApwM0oTfOSTA?docId=CNG.2b77591c55e379cfdb5543b179328f06.e71That explains it. Who needs reason these days when fear mongering is so much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted April 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 You should really watch a movie like John Q, or really looking into the Health care industry in America. I forget the Michael Moore documentary on Health care, but it was quite interesting. Definitely biased to an extent (not saying it didn't have an agenda) had a lot of interesting facts in it...but I was on the fence about a health care bill that would make more government involvement but when I saw those two in particular I started leaning towards what Obama and Hillary Clinton for a while has called for... Another great book on the health care problem in America, Pretty good read I'd highly suggest it:http://www.amazon.com/Critical-What-About-Health-Care-Crisis/dp/0312383010 Here's a very good take on it by Paul Krugman NY Times Columnist and Princeton professor, one of the best writers in the U.S. right now. I'd love to meet this guy. No, no, no, no. I've really been starting to like you on here recently, and now you post this. . I'm not going to get too into it, but the movie you are talking about is Sicko, which was very interesting, but even more obviously biased. The facts in that movie were so screwed it is beyond absurd, but that's what you get from Michael Moore. He tends to cater to the more liberal crowd, and those that will believe anything they are told. It's just him in particular I can't stand. You had me dying with that post, and you may have killed me with the second post. Paul Krugman is enemy #1. He won a nobel prize that was completely undeserving, and his theories and writings have been ripped to shreds, and many people know his credibility is pretty much zero. I'll find some articles ripping his credibility and writings apart, but you really killed me mentioning two of the people I can't stand the most. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reno Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 dude socialized medicine is for gurls, lets have doctors compete against eachother, its best for everyone. the day we become socialized medicine, is the day our name changes to united states of China. I really don't want that to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 JYD, come on man. You're better than posting things using Michael Moore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JYD Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) No, no, no, no. I've really been starting to like you on here recently, and now you post this. . I'm not going to get too into it, but the movie you are talking about is Sicko, which was very interesting, but even more obviously biased. The facts in that movie were so screwed it is beyond absurd, but that's what you get from Michael Moore. He tends to cater to the more liberal crowd, and those that will believe anything they are told. It's just him in particular I can't stand. You had me dying with that post, and you may have killed me with the second post. Paul Krugman is enemy #1. He won a nobel prize that was completely undeserving, and his theories and writings have been ripped to shreds, and many people know his credibility is pretty much zero. I'll find some articles ripping his credibility and writings apart, but you really killed me mentioning two of the people I can't stand the most. .I'm just saying that Sicko was a good film; I didn't believe everything in there, but as someone trying to gain education on the issue, it definitely raised some interesting points, that's all. Like I continue to say, I'm not naive enough to think that it doesn't have an agenda. Like any Michael Moore film, it does. As for Krugman, Krugman is definitely one of my favorite writers. I read a few publications everyday, and I'd have to say he's probably the more intelligent and articulate that I've read. I don't see why you don't like him, well, besides his starkly different views than you. I'm studying journalism, so I guess you could say he's one of my inspirations. dude socialized medicine is for gurls, lets have doctors compete against eachother, its best for everyone. the day we become socialized medicine, is the day our name changes to united states of China. I really don't want that to happen.You will be the #1 reason I support socialized medicine. (Sorry Flash & ECN) JYD, come on man. You're better than posting things using Michael Moore...I just said it certainly raised good points; not saying it wasn't biased or didn't have an agenda - it definitely did. Edited April 7, 2011 by JYD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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