Obama And The White House Government Shutdown

[Flash]

they hate us because we don't leave them alone. we preach that we want to spread democracy, yet attempts in the middle east for democracy have been destroyed by the US and have led to pro-US leaders being put in power. why? probably for oil. of course, looking for an alternative is obviously stupid, just ask the GOP. are you telling me you wouldn't have a great dislike of South Korea if they came in and dismantled a government that our people set up and then flexed their muscle upon us? A relationship with Iran might be salvageable if it wasn't for Reagan.

 

Sorry, I'm not one of those blame America for everything wrong in the world types. That stuff really doesn't have anything to do with why they hate us. Islamic radicals hate us because they think western culture is basically everything wrong with the world.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Flash

[Lkr]

Sorry, I'm not one of those blame America for everything wrong in the world types. That stuff really doesn't have anything to do with why they hate us. Islamic radicals hate us because they think western culture is basically everything wrong with the world.

Well maybe you can enroll in a beginning history class once you pass beginner's algebra. If you really believe that, you should get your head out of your ass and stop taking stuff people say on the news literally and learn how to form an opinion when given actual facts.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIv3XVM5PVk

[JYD]

Would you rather us not spend on National Defense? I'd say that's pretty important over other failed departments and programs that cost us more and more money every day.

 

As for Chris Christie. He's a beast. The people of NJ are lucky to have someone willing to take on absurd public employee unions like he does. His fight against the teacher's union in NJ is amazing stuff. Dude doesn't play around.

He's not a beast. The way he's handled the entire situation is completely wrong; cutting 820 million dollars for the NJ Education system is not the right way to improve education. He's only making things worse.

 

And yes, we spend way too much on national defense. That money could be invested in many other things such as environmental problems, education, jobs, etc.

[EastCoastNiner]

He's not a beast. The way he's handled the entire situation is completely wrong; cutting 820 million dollars for the NJ Education system is not the right way to improve education. He's only making things worse.

 

And yes, we spend way too much on national defense. That money could be invested in many other things such as environmental problems, education, jobs, etc.

 

Chris Christie is a beast. I'm sorry, but teachers have way too much going in their favor, and they should not have the luxury of tenure, which will hopefully go away in the coming years. Just like some New York schools are doing, and other schools in the country, take away tenure, and double the teachers pay. Bam, education will improve in no time.

[NomarFachix]

They offered that (2x salary, no tenure) to NJ schools not long ago, and the voting was something like 85% against. Lazy [expletive] teachers.

[JYD]

Chris Christie is a beast. I'm sorry, but teachers have way too much going in their favor, and they should not have the luxury of tenure, which will hopefully go away in the coming years. Just like some New York schools are doing, and other schools in the country, take away tenure, and double the teachers pay. Bam, education will improve in no time.

Lol...Not exactly.

 

My high school math teacher that's 33 years old who makes 50K a year just has way too much in his favor.........sureeee. He once told me that he left a job making 80K to be a teacher because he wanted to make a difference in Education. We need more teachers like that. We need to pay public teachers more money so it is a more desirable field, we need to keep the benefits they receive, but we definitely need to overhaul the tenure system; there needs to be a way to rid of poor/lazy teachers (which, despite what many say, and I think maybe it varies per state, but NJ has a pretty good public education system, but MOST teachers are not lazy, they may not be very good teachers, but they are trying) because there are still too many teachers just not doing their job. However, with that said, you can't just get rid of the tenure system completely because teachers can be fired way too easily....Administrators (which, there are way too many of making like 120K a year, and they do nothing) can easily fire teachers then who they think "aren't" doing their job, but may have their own teaching style that works, but the admin's don't like it, or personally don't like the individual and their views, etc. So, just ridding the tenure system completely won't work either.

 

There's no "snap your fingers and it's fixed" with the Education system in America. Far too many variables that go into it. However, Christie's clear vandetta against Public school teacher's is just not the way to fight the issue.

[Flash]

Christie talked to Diane Sawyer the other day on ABC news and his view on tenure is absolutely on point.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDsbKQrmY_g

 

Really, really like this guy.

[EastCoastNiner]

Lol...Not exactly.

 

My high school math teacher that's 33 years old who makes 50K a year just has way too much in his favor.........sureeee. He once told me that he left a job making 80K to be a teacher because he wanted to make a difference in Education. We need more teachers like that. We need to pay public teachers more money so it is a more desirable field, we need to keep the benefits they receive, but we definitely need to overhaul the tenure system; there needs to be a way to rid of poor/lazy teachers (which, despite what many say, and I think maybe it varies per state, but NJ has a pretty good public education system, but MOST teachers are not lazy, they may not be very good teachers, but they are trying) because there are still too many teachers just not doing their job. However, with that said, you can't just get rid of the tenure system completely because teachers can be fired way too easily....Administrators (which, there are way too many of making like 120K a year, and they do nothing) can easily fire teachers then who they think "aren't" doing their job, but may have their own teaching style that works, but the admin's don't like it, or personally don't like the individual and their views, etc. So, just ridding the tenure system completely won't work either.

 

There's no "snap your fingers and it's fixed" with the Education system in America. Far too many variables that go into it. However, Christie's clear vandetta against Public school teacher's is just not the way to fight the issue.

 

You do realize that's a lot for a high school teacher, right? And, who gives a shit if they are trying if they aren't producing? .

 

Come on!

Edited April 8, 2011 by EastCoastNiner

[Flash]

If you aren't producing results as a teacher, then you deserve to have your position questioned, no matter how long you've been at a school.

[Lkr]

What do you classify as results? Shitty state standardized tests? Teachers shouldn't teach to a test, it has created problems in Florida where teachers don't teach stuff that matters, they teach how to take a stupid test instead. What's the point of teaching kids about the Harlem Renaissance, there won't be questions pertaining to it on the standardized test, so the event must not be important.

[EastCoastNiner]

Chris Christie owned this dumb woman and the rest of the teachers union.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBaVvLmoE38

[EastCoastNiner]

Also, the majority of New Jersey teachers pay NOTHING towards their health insurance or anything. Not a PENNY!

[JYD]

You do realize that's a lot for a high school teacher, right? And, who gives a shit if they are trying if they aren't producing? .

 

Come on!

50K a year is not a lot. I know plenty of people that are very very intelligent and they have told me they'd love to go into teaching, but it's not worth it when you make such little money, when they could go into other corporate jobs, etc. and make six figures easily.

 

If you aren't producing results as a teacher, then you deserve to have your position questioned, no matter how long you've been at a school.

True, but how you get to that conclusion is debatable. A lot depends on where you teach in general. If you teach in a well-to-do suburban area, then you'll be successful. If you're in an worse off urban area, you'll be considered a failure? Like Obama said, a lot of the education process starts at home with parents teaching their own kids the correct behaviors and responsibility to give effort in school and embrace learning.

 

Also, the majority of New Jersey teachers pay NOTHING towards their health insurance or anything. Not a PENNY!

Well, if they had no benefits we would pretty much have one of the absolute worst education systems in the World. There needs to be something that persuades the brightest minds in America to pursue teaching as a plausible career.

[EastCoastNiner]

50K a year is not a lot. I know plenty of people that are very very intelligent and they have told me they'd love to go into teaching, but it's not worth it when you make such little money, when they could go into other corporate jobs, etc. and make six figures easily.

 

 

True, but how you get to that conclusion is debatable. A lot depends on where you teach in general. If you teach in a well-to-do suburban area, then you'll be successful. If you're in an worse off urban area, you'll be considered a failure? Like Obama said, a lot of the education process starts at home with parents teaching their own kids the correct behaviors and responsibility to give effort in school and embrace learning.

 

 

Well, if they had no benefits we would pretty much have one of the absolute worst education systems in the World. There needs to be something that persuades the brightest minds in America to pursue teaching as a plausible career.

 

Yes, 50k is a VERY GOOD amount for the amount of days they work. They are't working 5+ days a week for an entire year. They get the weekends off like the students, along with all of the holidays, along with a 3 month summer vacation. They are working a lot less than people that hold other jobs that work five days a week, year round. That is where the 50k is more than adequate enough.

 

Is 50k better than 75k? It all depends on what comes along with both of the salaries. Having a hell of a lot more time off and having 50k may be worth it to many people, say, like...teachers. They know they are not going to make a fortune, but have many other benefits for their job like time off and a job that is TOO secure.

[Lkr]

You're a [expletive]ing idiot if you think teachers only work 5 days a week. Those days off? They work. They are at school before students and stay hours after. Summer vacation? They're working in preparation for the school year.

[JYD]

Yes, 50k is a VERY GOOD amount for the amount of days they work. They are't working 5+ days a week for an entire year. They get the weekends off like the students, along with all of the holidays, along with a 3 month summer vacation. They are working a lot less than people that hold other jobs that work five days a week, year round. That is where the 50k is more than adequate enough.

 

Is 50k better than 75k? It all depends on what comes along with both of the salaries. Having a hell of a lot more time off and having 50k may be worth it to many people, say, like...teachers. They know they are not going to make a fortune, but have many other benefits for their job like time off and a job that is TOO secure.

You do realize that teaching is not that great, right? Like, the profession itself? It's not that easy commanding and controling a classroom....and like Lkr says it's more than just the work they put in from 8 to 2 each day...Also, standing on your feet teaching takes a lot of energy for 7 hours a day then paperwork after school, and coming in early/staying late for extra help, etc. To be a good teacher takes a lot of work - and 50K a year is not that great of pay...if you want to get the best possible teachers they should be paid more.

 

You're a [expletive]ing idiot if you think teachers only work 5 days a week. Those days off? They work. They are at school before students and stay hours after. Summer vacation? They're working in preparation for the school year.

Many beginning teacher's I have spoken to have to take on summer jobs as they are paying off college loans still, waitressing, bar tending, etc.

[Flash]

I agree with the point that teacher's don't just work 5 days and then go home and eat shit. However, lets not exaggerate either. I believe you need to have performance incentives not only to make the profession more appealing, but to improve the quality of education your kids are getting. I agree wholeheartedly with Christie on tenure. No matter how long you've been at a job, if you aren't doing your job the way someone else could be, you need to go. Its basically people paying someone's salary who isn't doing their job to the best of their ability.

[Flash]

BTW, crisis averted as they reached an agreement for the rest of the fiscal year. The real fight over this is yet to come though.

[JYD]

I agree with the point that teacher's don't just work 5 days and then go home and eat shit. However, lets not exaggerate either. I believe you need to have performance incentives not only to make the profession more appealing, but to improve the quality of education your kids are getting. I agree wholeheartedly with Christie on tenure. No matter how long you've been at a job, if you aren't doing your job the way someone else could be, you need to go. Its basically people paying someone's salary who isn't doing their job to the best of their ability.

Yeah, of course, Christie has a point, but the thing is how do you come to the conclusion of 'not doing your job?' I mean, just because a teacher has been there 30 years doesn't mean he or she isn't doing their job or still trying hard to enhance learning for their students...That's really the main issue; instead of battling with the Unions, which Christie hates Unions, he needs to figure out ways to make the education system better, not by dividing people, but bringing people together and WORK WITH teachers to find common sense goals.

[EastCoastNiner]

You're a [expletive]ing idiot if you think teachers only work 5 days a week. Those days off? They work. They are at school before students and stay hours after. Summer vacation? They're working in preparation for the school year.

 

I never said they didn't you moron. It isn't worth mentioning because people with MANY OTHER JOBS work after work and longer hours as well. Damn, you are so clueless.

[EastCoastNiner]

You do realize that teaching is not that great, right? Like, the profession itself? It's not that easy commanding and controling a classroom....and like Lkr says it's more than just the work they put in from 8 to 2 each day...Also, standing on your feet teaching takes a lot of energy for 7 hours a day then paperwork after school, and coming in early/staying late for extra help, etc. To be a good teacher takes a lot of work - and 50K a year is not that great of pay...if you want to get the best possible teachers they should be paid more.

 

 

Many beginning teacher's I have spoken to have to take on summer jobs as they are paying off college loans still, waitressing, bar tending, etc.

 

Why a re you trying to sa "teaching is not that great, right"? It's their choice to teach, and they know what they are getting into. I addressed the next point in my previous post because it's obvious.

 

Again, they are working those extra jobs because they are getting an enormous amount of time off from work, which is why they don't get paid as much as other professions.

[JYD]

I never said they didn't you moron. It isn't worth mentioning because people with MANY OTHER JOBS work after work and longer hours as well. Damn, you are so clueless.

Yeah but you must admit, when you think about it, teaching must be pretty tiring. Six classes a day, an hour class, standing on your feet, talking, explaining, dealing with discipline problems, etc. etc. it's not as easy of a job as people want to think. Not saying it's like being the President, but it's definitely quite a bit to deal with each day if you're going to be a successful and dedicated teacher.

 

^And they work those other jobs simply because they don't make much money. Of course it goes up with experience, but many start in the high 30k's when they are in their 20's and low 30's.

 

And my original point was that paying teachers more would attract better teachers and would in turn be able to hold them more accountable for doing their job. The fact that many of the best teachers are making 40-50k leaves them with very little motivation and does not make the job all that appealing.

Edited April 9, 2011 by JYD

[EastCoastNiner]

Yeah but you must admit, when you think about it, teaching must be pretty tiring. Six classes a day, an hour class, standing on your feet, talking, explaining, dealing with discipline problems, etc. etc. it's not as easy of a job as people want to think. Not saying it's like being the President, but it's definitely quite a bit to deal with each day if you're going to be a successful and dedicated teacher.

 

^And they work those other jobs simply because they don't make much money. Of course it goes up with experience, but many start in the high 30k's when they are in their 20's and low 30's.

 

And my original point was that paying teachers more would attract better teachers and would in turn be able to hold them more accountable for doing their job. The fact that many of the best teachers are making 40-50k leaves them with very little motivation and does not make the job all that appealing.

 

I completely understand it can be a strenuous job, but teachers know that going into their profession. It is their choice to become a teacher.

 

I just find this statistic to be completely embarrassing. In the past ten years in the New Jersey school system, only 17 teachers have been fired. Let that sink it. ONLY 17 teachers have been fired. Do you think there are only 17 poor teachers in New Jersey? I can probably name 17 poor teachers that I know of off the top of my head.

 

I'm very opposed to teachers having the amount of security they do with tenure. In almost any other job, if you perform poorly, you....get.....fired.

[Real Deal]

Yes, 50k is a VERY GOOD amount for the amount of days they work. They are't working 5+ days a week for an entire year. They get the weekends off like the students, along with all of the holidays, along with a 3 month summer vacation. They are working a lot less than people that hold other jobs that work five days a week, year round. That is where the 50k is more than adequate enough.

The [expletive]? My girlfriend would fly off the handle reading this.

 

Teaching sucks. She goes in at 7:00, stays until around 3:30-4:00. She gets home, and straight to grading papers and writing up these dreadful lesson plans, then come up with ideas for the next class day (for example, she set up a "fun" three-step system for multiplication facts just last week).

 

She came home with a new way of multiplying three-digit numbers, something I've never heard of in my life (same for her), and she had to learn it just to teach it to the students. One of the most confusing things I've seen. That took up a weekend.

 

Jess is always doing something for school. It's quite annoying, honestly, and she knows it.

 

As far as holidays go, the only thing she gets off is Christmas. During the other breaks, she's still having to go to the school. I'm not sure how it is everywhere else, but that's the case here.

 

Here's what I don't like about people, on television or wherever, talking as if they know how shit really goes down: they don't know. They don't work that job (most don't).

 

Tenure is good because it provides students with more legit teachers than bad ones, and instead of new ones that have no idea what they are doing. Long-tenured teachers should have job security. Schools will fire their ass to save money, otherwise. When my old HS fell to a 4A class, they dropped about four different teachers that were in their third year, and everyone in town knew it was to save money, because two of those teachers were exceptional in the classroom, and the other two were very good football coaches and decent teachers.

 

What they need to do is evaluate the teachers much better from the start, so they can avoid having bad ones complete the short-term process and move into tenure. If they want to implement a system that can be used to drop those bad teachers, despite tenure, they need to develop SOMETHING...but getting rid of tenure would be a mistake. The excellent pack of teachers don't deserve that, but more importantly, neither do the kids.

[EastCoastNiner]

 

What they need to do is evaluate the teachers much better from the start, so they can avoid having bad ones complete the short-term process and move into tenure. If they want to implement a system that can be used to drop those bad teachers, despite tenure, they need to develop SOMETHING...but getting rid of tenure would be a mistake. The excellent pack of teachers don't deserve that, but more importantly, neither do the kids.

 

This is where the problem lies. Bad teachers should be able to be fired, but tenure prevents that. THAT is wrong, and is hurting our education system. Why should bad teachers be able to keep their jobs? Why should teaching be different than almost any other job where poor performance is grounds for firing, and teaching is extremely important, so there's even more need to fire poor teachers?