Where Does Kobe Rank in All-Time Greatest?

[Nitro]

I tend to value a player's peak over consistency and accomplishments, although they are also major factors for me as well. With that said, since the '80's began (pre-'80's is too difficult to judge and I've seen very little from those era's), I'd put MJ, Bird, Magic, Shaq and Hakeem over Kobe. Duncan/Kobe is a coin-flip, though I'd probably give Kobe the edge due to longevity. That puts Kobe at 6th. Going by what I've heard along with stats/accomplishments, Wilt/Russel/Kareem would also probably be ahead of Kobe. That puts Kobe at 9th.

 

Overall, I'd say anywhere between 6th-9th greatest. Depending on how much you value longevity and accolades, that could fluctuate a few spots up or down.

[AboveLegit]

Jordan

Russell

Johnson

Abdul-Jabbar

Chamberlain

Duncan

O'Neal

Kobe

Bird

Olajuwon

 

He needs another title or two in order to get in the top 4 if you ask me. If he gets his sixth in a dominating performance in the Finals, then I'm sure he's in the top 4, but I highly doubt that happens. The sixth title will undoubtedly put him above Shaq, Duncan, and Wilt without much room for argument. Once he does all of that, we can focus on sliding him up the rankings.

[Lakersfan91]

Yeah

 

Jordan

Russell

Adul-Jabbar

Magic

O'Neal

Wilt

Olajuwon

Kobe

Bird

Duncan

also

Robertson

Moses Malone

Karl Malone

 

So he is #8 to me.

 

I think if he wins another ring and the Finals MVP this year he'll move up to #5 right behind Magic

[Lkr]

Because it's a pathetic excuse for not knowing the history and overrating current players.

 

I didn't even care for basketball before November '07, but you don't see me calling CP3 the greatest PG of all time.

there is an argument for Kobe being a top player all time, but no one would EVER make the claim that CP3 is the greatest PG of all time at the moment. there is quite a difference.

[Big Penny]

That's because you haven't seen those other players from the past play enough, and you're basing your opinion off of what other people have said about past players. There's a ZERO percent chance you have seen enough of the past great players for you to make an accurate assessment. You're looking like a fool in this thread.

 

Anyways, Kobe is #1 all-time, and he has been for a few years. He's without a doubt a better player then M.J., that's for sure. However, for pure dominance, it's Shaq and it's not even close.

and you're a borderline retard.

 

there is an argument for Kobe being a top player all time, but no one would EVER make the claim that CP3 is the greatest PG of all time at the moment. there is quite a difference.

Why not? According to his logic, Kobe is top-5 all time because he watched Kobe play. I've watched CP3 play more than I've seen guys like Magic or Stockton play.

[Kobe24]

He has sort of a point when he says people overrate the past. Those guys would not be able to accomplish today what they did before. There are so many things that have changed; especially the quality of athletes in the NBA. At the same time that is not really fair to say for those guys.

 

I have no doubt that the players back then were more skilled except for a few today who are just amazing, but athleticism sometimes just trumps that.

[Lkr]

Why not? According to his logic, Kobe is top-5 all time because he watched Kobe play. I've watched CP3 play more than I've seen guys like Magic or Stockton play.

I've never seen Joe Montanna or Terry Bradshaw play football, but I can tell you that Brady and Manning are top 5 QBs all time

[EastCoastNiner]

and you're a borderline retard.

 

 

Why not? According to his logic, Kobe is top-5 all time because he watched Kobe play. I've watched CP3 play more than I've seen guys like Magic or Stockton play.

 

Tell me everything about Bill Russel and Bob Cousy. While you're at it, I'd love to know everything about Isaiah Thomas and Danny Ainge.

 

You ARE clueless.

 

 

Also, that was the worse response I've ever heard. .

Edited April 24, 2011 by EastCoastNiner

[NomarFachix]

top 5

[Real Deal]

Second best player in regards to overall skills and play.

 

In terms of greatness, personal and team accomplishments, and overall play, he's top five.

 

Jordan, Wilt, Kareem...hard to stick Kobe over any of them due to stats and/or the personal achievements.

 

After those three, I can make legit arguments.

[Flash]

I'll go with:

 

1. MJ

2. Magic

3. Kareem

4. Wilt

5. Big O

6. Shaq

7. Russell

8. Kobe

 

But like RD said above, you can make the case for any of the guys listed as 4-8.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Flash

[Real Deal]

Once Kobe got his fifth, he basically became the greatest Laker of all-time. Magic is not a better overall player, never a better defender OR better scorer (and he was never even close in those comparisons), and in the decade he had all of his success with the Lakers, he had quite the help. Bryant also holds multiple Laker records, more than Magic or Baylor.

 

All Magic has over Bryant is his passing ability, rebounding, and MVP trophies. Back in the 80s and 90s, the MVP awards were actually given to some of the best players in the league, and that all changed over the last decade, weighing more on the team's success than anything else. Not really hard to be a successful superstar, though, back in the day...because most had legitimate contending teams. Bird had one of the best PF in the history of the game, an all-star center and guys like DJ to help defend and score/distribute the ball. Magic had everyone from Kareem and Wilkes, to Worthy, Cooper, Scott and Green...in the second half of the 80s, he was playing with three other all-stars.

 

Magic was awesome, nonetheless, but I can't stick him over Kobe after last year. Bryant is the best, and greatest, Laker of all-time.

[Make It Naaaashty]

Kobe is top 3, and will be the GOAT depending on how many more rings he wins.

[EastCoastNiner]

Kobe is top 3, and will be the GOAT depending on how many more rings he wins.

 

He's already the GOAT.

[Lakersfan91]

I have a tough time putting Wilt so high cause 2 rings and just 1 Finals MVP. As far as just personal performance then yeah of course except all the time he faces Bill in the playoffs and Russell would usually hold Wil under his averages. Not to forget Bill was the one winning all the rings at that time.

 

You can say Wilt had more help which is true but Wilt played with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor and still only won one ring with them. And the year they won I know he wasn't even near being their leading scorer. West was. I also think if he played 90's-present then he wouldn't average anywhere near his career numbers. He'd still be a beast but back in the 50's and 60's teams shot below 40% and teams grabbed 70 rebounds a game instead 40-45 like today. So obviously Wilt would average less rebounds. Maybe still close to 15 but that's not unheard of like his 22 rpg average or whatever it is. And MJ's 30.1 ppg is more impressive than Wilt's cause Jordan's was higher than 30.1 but he came back for those 2 seasons with the Wizards. Plus Jordan was a 6'6 guard playing against other 6'6 guards... Not 7'1 playing against 6'8 centers... And yes i know not all centers were 6'8" back then but in 1960 (Wilt's 1st MVP) believe there are 3 or 4 starting centers under 6'8"...

[Oliver P]

Well the first thing I want to say here is that, as I said many times before, it is totally impossible to make a 100% accurate top 10 greatest players of All Time. It is a subjective thing. As a matter of fact if you ask ten people who the ten best players of All Time are, you will have ten different lists. Not entirely different, there will be some similiraties in the list, but you won't have two lists that are exactly the same. I have never seen two lists that were the same so far anyhow.

 

The fact is that no one can assert that one player in particular is the best of All Time for sure. There are just way too many things to consider. Besides basketball is first of all a collective game, teams win rings not players, and people tend to forget about that too easily. In collective games it's easy to say that a team is the best, it's obviously the team that wins the ring. It's a lot harder to say who's the best player as the players are part of the team. Of course sometimes it's obvious, like Jordan was the best player of the 90's but in some other cases it's way more complicated and just impossible to tell. Like for who's the best between Malone and Barkley for example a case can definitely be made for both players.If all the players played each other on one on one it wouldn't be the same but the fact is that it's not the case. Besides if we can tell for sure what's the best team for each season (as again it's the team that won the ring) it's a lot harder to say that a team was the best of All Time. As a matter of fact most of the greatest teams of All Time didn't play against each other so we cannot say for sure who's the best. The 96 Bulls never played against the 72 Lakers, the 63 Celtics never played against the 83 Sixers, the 1986 Celtics never played against the 2001 Lakers, etc... We can only speculate about that but we just cannot tell for sure. That's a fact. So as we cannot assert that one team was the best of All Time how could we say that one player was the best of All Time ? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. We can name a few teams and say that those teams are among the best, just like we can give a few names of players who had the biggest impact on their teams and tended to dominate other players but we just cannot say that one particular team or one particular player is the best for sure.

 

Now I have my top ten list but there is no way that I will say that those players are the best of All Time for sure. For me the greatest players ever are the one who impressed me the most. And there are in particular seven players that impressed me more than the others, those players are Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. For me the best player of All Time is among those seven players. This because no one dominated the league as much as they did.

 

Jordan dominated the 90's. I hear often that Jordan had a lot of help and that the 90's were not competitive but it's just totally asinine to say something like that and those people obviously didn't watch basketball in that decade. First of all the game was DEFINITELY as competitive as it is today, and I personally believe that it was actually even more competitive than today's NBA. People are often blinded by the fact that the Bulls dominated the era and tend to think that it's because they were the only good team at the time but it's FAR from the truth. The thing is that the Bulls won that much because they were just too strong. But there were a lot of other amazing teams in the 90's, teams like the 93 Suns, 97/98 Jazz, 91/94 Knicks, 98 Pacers, 92 Blazers, etc... And I am personally sure that if those teams played in the 2000's they would have won several rings. Then about Jordan's help well of course he had half there is NO PLAYER IN THE NBA HISTORY THAT WON WITHOUT GOOD TEAMMATES. Which is totally logical as, again, basketball is a collective game... And what puts Jordan ahead of many great players is in my opinion is fantastic playoffs records. Yes the most impressive thing about Jordan is that he is the only player from the 80's/90's/2000's to do things that only players from other eras did. If you look at his scoring records in the playoffs for example (I mentioned them in a lot of other threads so I ain't gonna post them here) for example you'll see that the players who are the closest to them are all from another era, players like West, Chamberlain or Baylor... Which is even more impressive.

 

Bird and Magic dominated the 80's. The Golden era of basketball. There is something that I never understand is why most people put Magic on top of their list and Bird always as a 8th-10th best player of All Time... Doesn't make any sense to me. I would really like to know what Magic had that Bird didn't. They were both as good passers, ball handlers, leaders... In fact the major difference between the two was that Bird was a much better scorer and shooter. So if anything Bird should be considered as a better player. In fact most people think that Magic was clearly the better player of the two because he won more rings... But the fact is that the Lakers won those two more rings, not Magic alone... People are often blinded by rings. The fact is that they were both the player of the decade, it's just impossible to say that one of them was clearly better than the other. Besides people often forget of how AMAZING Bird was at the beginning of the 80's before his injuries. He was still terrific of course but before those injuries Bird was absolutely outstanding, at the time the Celtics played the Erving's Sixers every year. I suggest that people should watch those games to realize what kind of player he truly was..

 

Russell and Wilt dominated the 60's. Okay I often hear that it was another era, that there was less competition and that those players wouldn't have the same records in our era... Well I agree to some extent. Of course I do not believe that Wilt and Russell would average 25 RPG or Wilt 50 PPG in today's game. But I definitely believe that both players could dominate in today's game. And would be at least the best inside players today or even the best players. Sure human beings evolve and today's stars are stronger than ever but let's not exaggerate at the same time, the 60's were only 50 years ago, mankind hasn't evolve a lot since then... Besides most of the people who think that Wilt or Bill would be like Camby in today's game are actually young people who started to watch this game a couple of years ago.. The people who actually followed the game in this era never use this argument. And it's true that there was less competition in those days but that doesn't mean at the same time that Bill and Wilt wouldn't have dominated that much if there were more competition... We just can't know. Now it's true that it was another era, we cannot bypass this fact, but it's also important not to exaggerate, to keep in mind that it wasn't THAT different. Besides it's not like Bill and Wilt even choose to play in this era, so it would be totally unfair to blame them for that... Only Shaq and Jordan dominated as much as Wilt and Bill is arguably the best defender and leader ever. And one of the most intelligent basketball player of the history of the game.They both definitely can be considered as the best player ever. A case can be made for each.

 

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar dominated the 70's. His palmarès is probably the most impressive in the history of the league. And his move, the Sky Hook is considered by many as the most unstoppable move in the NBA history. Actually even Darryl "Chocolate Thunder" Dawkins said once that he even dreamed of the Sky Hook at night.

 

Shaquille O'Neal is for me kinda underrated as a few people think that he's a top 5 players ever. I sure think that a case can definitely be made for him. I think that a lot of people are blinded by the fact that he has only one MVP. Something that doesn't matter one bit to me, it's not because some people decided that he wasn't a MVP the other years necessarily means that they were right. The fact is that between 98 and 2006 Shaq could have been MVP EACH YEAR, he was clearly the best player in the world and that's all what matters to me. That's why I never take the awards in consideration and rather trust what I saw with my own eyes... Anyhow few people realize how great Shaq truly was at his prime. How dominant he truly was. During the early 2000's if the Lakers wanted to win all they had to do was to give him the ball. Ron Harper, who played with both Jordan and Shaq even said that for him Shaq was the better of the two. I disagree with him, but it still means something... Shaq is one of the very best scorer ever. The most impressive thing is his FG%. Shaq is second All Time for FG%. Only two players in NBA history have ever led the league in scoring and FG% the same season. They are Shaq and Wilt. Shaq has led the league in FG% 9 times. (tied with Wilt for most all time). Only 3 players have won championships while being the scoring champ, and those players are Kareem, MJ, and Shaq. It's in the Finals that we see how FANTASTIC a player Shaq really was. Shaquille O'Neal's performances in the three Finals between 2000 and 2002 are unquestionably the most dominant performances in NBA Finals history. Let's take a look at them statistically :

 

2000 : 38 PPG, 16.7 RPG, 2.3 APG, 2.7 BPG, 61.1 FG%

 

2001 : 33 PPG, 15.8 RPG, 4.8 APG, 3.4 BPG, 57.3 FG%

 

2002 : 36.3 PPG, 12.3 RPG, 3.8 APG, 2.8 BPG, 59.5 FG%

 

Now let's compare them with MJ's best Finals performance (everyone agrees that it's the 93 ones against Phoenix) :

 

41 PPG, 8.5RPG, 6.3 APG, 1.7 SPG, 51 FG%

 

We can definitely assert that Shaq's performances were just as dominant as the player's who is considered by many as the greatest of All Time.

 

During the Lakers' first three peat Shaq's worst shooting performance was 52 FG% in two games, he had 36 pts, 21 rbds in one, 34 pts, 14 rbds in the other.

 

His lowest scoring game during that same three peat was 28 pts. During that game he also had 20 rbds, 9 asts and 8 blks (NBA Finals record).

 

During the three peat Shaq had several NBA records :

 

1st All Time in FG% in Finals history 60.1 FG%

 

Most blocks in a game- 8 (tied with 2 others)

 

Most FT attempted in a game, half, and quarter

 

Most FTs made in a half

 

Most points scored in a 4 game series- 145 pts

 

Most FTs made and attempted in a 4 game series

 

At his prime Shaq was just unbelievable.

 

 

I love Kobe but he just didn't impress me as much as those seven other players. So personally I would personally put Kobe at number 8 at best. Yes in my opinion it's a toss up between him, Olajuwon, Duncan, Erving, Baylor, Robertson and West for number 8. But again that's just my list and I can admit that a case can be made for Kobe as a top 5 player ever. When we look at his career it's hard to imagine how it could have been better than that and that's what matters the most.

 

It's not really important to know who, among all the greatest stars of the history of the game, is better than the others, they all had terrific careers and all help the game of basketball to get even better and that's the only important thing to me.

[JYD]

He's hands down top 10 of all time. To put him outside of that would be foolish; and that's coming from someone who admittedly does not like Kobe Bryant.

 

He's very arguable of top 5 of all time too. I think it'd be even harder to argue him outside of the top 5, than to argue for him to be included IN the top 5. I'd say he's around 4-7 range of greatest of all time.

[Karl Malone]

Just because I said Kobe is top 5 doesn't mean I don't respect gays like MJ, Magic, Russell. They're great its just Kobe is up there with them imo

 

I'm pretty sure they were straight. Even if Magic had aids.