Noah fined 50K for gay slur

[Poe]

The masses fail to realize that words are merely sounds that are used for communication. They cannot possibly inflict actual harm. To believe that is delusional.

 

 

And I don't care what a court says is "right" or "wrong". They make you put your hand on a 2k year old book of fairy tales with a childish world-view in today's standards, then swear to an invisible old man in the clouds.

[fish7718]

The masses fail to realize that words are merely sounds that are used for communication. They cannot possibly inflict actual harm. To believe that is delusional.

 

 

And I don't care what a court says is "right" or "wrong". They make you put your hand on a 2k year old book of fairy tales with a childish world-view in today's standards, then swear to an invisible old man in the clouds.

You fail to realize that it doesn't matter, any of what you just, or freedom speech, none of it. Being in the NBA is a privlage which comes with restrictions, Stern expects his players to live up these expectations or face a penalty. If Noah quits the NBA he can go around call anyone he wants anything he wants. However, while he is a part of the NBA he has to follow Stern's rules.

[EastCoastNiner]

You fail to realize that it doesn't matter, any of what you just, or freedom speech, none of it. Being in the NBA is a privlage which comes with restrictions, Stern expects his players to live up these expectations or face a penalty. If Noah quits the NBA he can go around call anyone he wants anything he wants. However, while he is a part of the NBA he has to follow Stern's rules.

 

Nothing he said in the post you quoted referred to him unfairly being fined by the NBA. He was talking about the use of the word in general, and how society is hypocritical, so you should read a little better next time.

[fish7718]

Nothing he said in the post you quoted referred to him unfairly being fined by the NBA. He was talking about the use of the word in general, and how society is hypocritical, so you should read a little better next time.

Sorry for trying to keep the topic on topic, maybe you should try to do the same instead of being an asshole and trying to insult me. Everything he's said in this thread has been completely moronic. Frankily, I've lost any respect I've had for him, if he's being serious. Words do not inflict harm? Is that a [expletive]ing joke? Words don't inflict physical harm but they can cause plenty of mental harm which is 10 times worse than physical harm. People commit suicide over 'just words' every [expletive]ing day, and that is not delusional at all, it's fact.

Edited May 25, 2011 by fish7718

[NomarFachix]

Poe's been on the crazy train since the Wade "911" comments.

[Poe]

Physical harm, through fists/weapons/etc, can directly cause permanent damage or even death. Some ways of causing damage is so extreme it can even kill millions of people at a time (like an atomic bomb).

 

Auditory methods of communication we call talking is hardly comparable. The only way it can possibly cause tangible harm is through creating a sound so loud it impairs hearing, or exposing oneself to loud sounds on a regular basis (like concerts), which is more often self-inflicted.

 

 

What you are suggesting is one can communicate negative thoughts through words, and cause one to become "harmed" psychologically. You are also suggesting that, and I quote, that "mental harm is 10 times worse than physical harm".

 

You say people can kill themselves because of other people's words. The communication of thoughts, ideas, questions. These things cannot cause anyone to kill themselves. It's not possible unless you had some sort of mind control device.

 

 

Just as much as it is someone's choice to choose what words they say, it is your choice to choose how you take it. It is your choice and your choice alone to do what somebody tells you, or take someone's idea and use that as a motivation for your own death. The ONLY person in control of killing yourself is you.

[Real Deal]

What the hell are you even talking about?

 

If you're such a bad ass, let me buy you a cheap video camera, then you can walk up to a few young kids (meaning, 9-10 years old) and start cussing them out, talking nasty to them, and record it. Just words, no physical harm or anything.

 

If anyone did that with my daughter (if I had a daughter), they'd be sucking melted ice cream from a straw for weeks, waiting for their wired jaw to heal.

 

And all of this is also coming from someone who was pissed off that people weren't replying to posts of his, and hated the rep system so much, he wanted it to be removed. Words can do no harm...but all of that can affect you that much?

 

You're taking logical and rational thinking to an entirely different level. You can go point a machete at some stranger's neck without causing harm, but you can't be stupid enough to do that. Shoot a letter over to Congress and let them know you're going to blow up the White House, but at the bottom, be sure you tell them the letter is a joke. No harm in words...just a joke.

 

I'm not really sure if you're doing it for the attention, or if you really believe this stuff, but...okay. You've done a complete 180 as a poster, not really sure when you took your spin, but I'm sure many have noticed in such a short period of time.

[Poe]

Don't put words in my mouth please. I don't think I ever said that I was a "bad ass", nor did I say that the rep system should be removed (though I do recall saying it should actually be improved).

 

Also, I haven't changed my stance on this. Like the Knicks fan said, I've made "crazy" rants about free speech since the Wade 9/11 discussion (and I'm sure long before then as well, perhaps not on these forums).

 

 

If anyone cussed at your supposed daughter, rather than "sucking melted ice cream from a straw for weeks" (which I assure you nobody has ever reacted like that lmao) instead she would probably ask you "daddy, who was that crazy guy cursing at me?", and the logical parent would say "it doesn't matter, just ignore him". The worst possible scenario is that she would cry for a minute. That is, unless you decide that it's a good idea to physically attack the person cussing her.

 

If anything, it would be good for her. She might grow thicker skin. If this stuff happens for the first time when she's older, it would be pretty embarrassing to be the parent of a fully grown person to "suck melted ice cream for weeks" just because someone said some mean things to her.

[GamerGuy]

Verbal abuse isn't physically harmful to you? Haha, ok.

 

Anyone who's taken a basic psychology class can tell you that verbal abuse is just as, if not more harmful, than physical abuse. Your example of the little girl's reaction is unbelievable. At worst she would cry for a minute? Are you kidding me? This just shows me that you have NO concept of reality.

 

I don't even know what to say to this. Your argument is so completely wrong that it's making my head hurt.

[Real Deal]

Don't put words in my mouth please. I don't think I ever said that I was a "bad ass", nor did I say that the rep system should be removed (though I do recall saying it should actually be improved).

Same thing. You wanted it altered, off the board, whatever. It affected you, just as what happens when you feel people don't read your posts. A "logical" person would just continue posting their topics, correct?

 

If anything, it would be good for her. She might grow thicker skin. If this stuff happens for the first time when she's older, it would be pretty embarrassing to be the parent of a fully grown person to "suck melted ice cream for weeks" just because someone said some mean things to her.

Why would she have her jaw wired shut? I'm assuming you didn't read the rest of my post, and misunderstood it completely. It would be the person that ran their mouth.

 

She might grow thicker skin? Right. That's what happens when a lot of children are verbally abused by their parents, correct?

 

Do kids come out normal after spending most of their teenage lives in a foster home? A lot don't...but hey, there's no physical harm, so they all should be fine, right?

 

Regardless of your train of thought when discussing things, you're in the wrong. You can't go around saying what you want to people, and the best part about this country (and humanity) is that you won't go around saying what you want to people.

 

This isn't a Utopia. It's also not a fantasy land. People can't walk around and do anything, say anything, with an abolished government, all religion banned, no laws, 60's hippie music playing in the background, anything goes. There are consequences in life, and for people to be aware of them, they need to recognize and accept those set in place at a job, in a community, in your own home, etc.

 

The fact that you think you should be able to say what you want in a professional work environment (and I'm not even talking on a pro basketball court) is astounding, and I really don't have to put words into your mouth for people to realize what all is coming out of it.

[Real Deal]

Verbal abuse isn't physically harmful to you? Haha, ok.

 

Anyone who's taken a basic psychology class can tell you that verbal abuse is just as, if not more harmful, than physical abuse. Your example of the little girl's reaction is unbelievable. At worst she would cry for a minute? Are you kidding me? This just shows me that you have NO concept of what would really happen.

 

I don't even know what to say to this. Your argument is so completely wrong that it's making my head hurt.

On the smallest of scales, I could (if I was ignorant) produce an example of how much of a failure that would be. All I would need to do is drop our moderators (and our privileges) for about 6 months, and basically strike down all guidelines I've ever set...see how long OTR can maintain stability.

 

You can't physically harm me through your posts.

[GamerGuy]

On the smallest of scales, I could (if I was ignorant) produce an example of how much of a failure that would be. All I would need to do is drop our moderators (and our privileges) for about 6 months, and basically strike down all guidelines I've ever set...see how long OTR can maintain stability.

 

You can't physically harm me through your posts.

We've had members leave because of verbal abuse...and that's with the guidelines in place. No guidelines in place? Couldn't even imagine.

 

And I can prove to you that you can physically harm people through posts. It's happening to me right now. I scrolled back up and read Poe's post again, and trying to compute what he said is causing my head to hurt. Reading his post and trying to make sense of it is literally stressing me out. It's giving me a headache.

[Real Deal]

You got me there, GAMERCRY.

[Poe]

If the best argument you guys can come up with is "this guy is stupid" or "if you say what you want it's just wrong" or "if you say bad things to someone this [insert something made-up here] will happen", then I think I'm in a pretty good position.

 

Besides, none of the arguments are interesting me. They are weak at best. It's getting boring.

 

 

One last thing, though.

 

She might grow thicker skin? Right. That's what happens when a lot of children are verbally abused by their parents, correct?

 

Do kids come out normal after spending most of their teenage lives in a foster home? A lot don't...but hey, there's no physical harm, so they all should be fine, right?

 

Best argument yet. Problem is, this situation is different. You are putting a child in a poor environment. Plus, a child's mind is basically programmed to believe what their parents tell them (plus their brains are going through stages of development), so if a parent gives their children negative reinforcement, it can damage a child psychologically to an extent, especially when they are surrounded by this environment for the majority of their early life.

 

I don't want to talk about this too much since it goes very off-topic (which was originally about a grown man calling another grown man a "[expletive]got"). Just understand that this is a very different situation than simply expressing oneself to another through words freely.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Poe

[Poe]

Your arguments are so bad. I mean, seriously.

 

Your example of the little girl's reaction is unbelievable. At worst she would cry for a minute? Are you kidding me? This just shows me that you have NO concept of reality.

 

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that the little girl's reaction of "sucking melted ice cream from a straw for weeks" is the most realistic situation. I'll try to remember that next time I, or someone else, tells a whiny 5-year-old girl to stfu when she's begging her mom for an expensive toy, or some shit like that.

 

 

Seriously. It especially shows when you are cornered and have no clue what to say when you have to resort to sugar-coating your posts with "haha ok", "your unbelievable", "are you kidding me?", "you have NO concept of...", "I don't even know what to say", and "your argument is so completely wrong". And that's just in one post with 7 total sentences.

[Real Deal]

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that the little girl's reaction of "sucking melted ice cream from a straw for weeks" is the most realistic situation.

Shit dude, do I really need to go that extra mile to explain what I said? Re-read it.

 

Guy talks trash to my daughter. He can say what he wants, because you say so.

 

I walk over, break his jaw.

 

He gets it wired shut, eats nothing but ice cream and mashed potatoes for weeks.

 

Was it really that hard to understand?

[Art]

The money should go to the fan IMO. How distraught he must be being subjected to such filth from Noah.

[Real Deal]

By the way, in your opinion (and what will obviously be yours alone), nobody has supplied an argument for anything you say regarding this, and if that's the case, it's mainly because we really don't know what the hell you're talking about, or why you think the way you do.

 

The bottom line is this: consequences are vital in society, simple as that. There are consequences for physical and mental abuse, consequences for breaking laws, etc. No matter what planet you're visiting, you can't throw out racial or gay slurs in a workplace.

 

Given the fact that athletes are role models, even when some aren't up for it, and the fact that basketball is broadcast to the nation (which includes all ages), it's only logical that players should watch their mouths. Maybe you wouldn't mind your future 7-year old son cussing out your teacher and flipping her off (words don't hurt...), but I would rather have mine grow up in a mature environment, understanding that what he says helps build character, reputation, and discipline, and the decision to respect those around him will benefit him more than he knows as he gets older.

 

You can say what you want once again (ironically)...but lesson learned: sometimes, people decide to just stop listening.

[deestillballin]

IMO I think its getting out of hand. I will first say, I wasn't offended at first when Kobe did it, he came out he apologized, I actually felt it came from the heart AND. I can understand being frustrated, and saying something like that. But when you say it and then say "Ill take my punishment..." its like coming off as you not caring about what you did or said. Now I'm under the impression these NBA players, who because of the FANS, make the money can say what ever they want, and disgrace, and demeanor me and my brothers and sisters because of our sexuality. Now for you people who say "First Amendment etc.." Keep in mind there is a Second amendment and people have gotten off due to derogatory words being a threat on their life. And self defense.

 

Please let me know if I need to dumb it down

[EastCoastNiner]

What the hell are you even talking about?

 

If you're such a bad ass, let me buy you a cheap video camera, then you can walk up to a few young kids (meaning, 9-10 years old) and start cussing them out, talking nasty to them, and record it. Just words, no physical harm or anything.

 

If anyone did that with my daughter (if I had a daughter), they'd be sucking melted ice cream from a straw for weeks, waiting for their wired jaw to heal.

 

And all of this is also coming from someone who was pissed off that people weren't replying to posts of his, and hated the rep system so much, he wanted it to be removed. Words can do no harm...but all of that can affect you that much?

 

You're taking logical and rational thinking to an entirely different level. You can go point a machete at some stranger's neck without causing harm, but you can't be stupid enough to do that. Shoot a letter over to Congress and let them know you're going to blow up the White House, but at the bottom, be sure you tell them the letter is a joke. No harm in words...just a joke.

 

I'm not really sure if you're doing it for the attention, or if you really believe this stuff, but...okay. You've done a complete 180 as a poster, not really sure when you took your spin, but I'm sure many have noticed in such a short period of time.

 

 

Verbal abuse isn't physically harmful to you? Haha, ok.

 

Anyone who's taken a basic psychology class can tell you that verbal abuse is just as, if not more harmful, than physical abuse. Your example of the little girl's reaction is unbelievable. At worst she would cry for a minute? Are you kidding me? This just shows me that you have NO concept of reality.

 

I don't even know what to say to this. Your argument is so completely wrong that it's making my head hurt.

 

You guys are honestly making very little sense here. You two are taking his posts completely out of context, and giving examples that aren't even related.

 

All he has said is that harming someone verbally is not the same as physically harming someone, and that you can't do physical damage by verbally assaulting someone. You can't kill anyone with words, but you can kill someone with physical harm. People can be affected by words, and kill themselves, but that is their OWN choice.

 

Then, you guys give some examples that I have no clue how they even relate to a single thing he just said. Honestly, what they hell does the icecream example have to do with? It really makes absolutely no sense basing it off of the post you quoted him from.

 

Then, you go on to compare using gay slurs to writing a bomb letter to Congress. How is that even comparable? . One of those is legal, one is going to get you a felony.

 

I understand your view that verbal abuse can be damaging, but your examples are far fetched and don't make any sense. Maybe you can explain your ice cream example directed towards his post, but as of now, it makes no sense with what you were comparing it to.

[deestillballin]

 

All he has said is that harming someone verbally is not the same as physically harming someone, and that you can't do physical damage by verbally assaulting someone. You can't kill anyone with words, but you can kill someone with physical harm. People can be affected by words, and kill themselves, but that is their OWN choice.

 

 

Seems like their posts related it well. it may not DIRECTLY harm somebody, but YES, Verbally Assaulting somebody can cause you physical damage...

[GamerGuy]

Here, let me try to explain this better.

 

Despite being the most common form of abuse, verbal abuse is generally not taken as seriously as other types of abuse, because there is no visible proof. In reality, however, verbal abuse can be more detrimental to a person's health than physical abuse. In fact, verbal abuse, starting at a young age, significantly contributes to codependency, borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, and other psychological disorders that often plague many people into their elderly age.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbal_abuse

 

Is calling someone an idiot more harmful than a punch to the face? No, it isn't. Is verbally abusing someone until they develop severe psychological disorders more harmful than a punch to the face? Yes, it can be. Physical wounds heal relatively quickly, whereas emotional/psychological wounds can take years, even decades to heal. Some people never heal at all.

[Real Deal]

All he has said is that harming someone verbally is not the same as physically harming someone, and that you can't do physical damage by verbally assaulting someone. You can't kill anyone with words, but you can kill someone with physical harm. People can be affected by words, and kill themselves, but that is their OWN choice.

No, he made it clear that he believes people should be able to say what they want in a workplace, and not have consequences for their actions because they are "just words."

 

Do you believe this to be true as well?

 

That's the whole point of him thinking none of this is a big deal, that no player should be fined for what comes out of their mouth, and I'd have to assume this means in pre-game and post-game interviews as well. Racial slur, gay slur, whatever it is.

 

That's where it connects.