GM4: Chicago at Miami (MIA 2-1)

[Make It Naaaashty]

With Wade struggling, Chicago couldn't have asked for a better oppurtunity to win the game tonight. But instead they're pretty much done, unless they can pull of a miracle. Rose put up a dissapointing performance but you can't put all of the loss on his shoulders, guys like Boozer and Deng have to step up in order to get some attention off of Rose. As much as I hate Bosh and LeBron, they played well and led Miami to a huge win. Also, Mike Miller was huge coming off the bench with his 12 points and 9 rebounds. It's all good though, Heat are going down to the Mavs.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Prodigy

[SRV]

What a game... watched it at sports grill with my friends and it was great. Wade sucked most of the time, but those final minutes were huge for him.

[Flash]

What a game... watched it at sports grill with my friends and it was great. Wade sucked most of the time, but those final minutes were huge for him.

 

haha, I ordered from there tonight. So happy they opened one right near me.

[JYD]

With Wade struggling, Chicago couldn't have asked for a better oppurtunity to win the game tonight. But instead they're pretty much done, unless they can pull of a miracle. Rose put up a dissapointing performance but you can't put all of the loss on his shoulders, guys like Boozer and Deng have to step up in order to get some attention off of Rose. As much as I hate Bosh and LeBron, they played well and led Miami to a huge win. Also, Mike Miller was huge coming off the bench with his 12 points and 9 rebounds. It's all good though, Heat are going down to the Mavs.

Why do the Heat not have a chance? Lol...

[Make It Naaaashty]

Why do the Heat not have a chance? Lol...

 

I edited that 2 seconds later.

[JYD]

I edited that 2 seconds later.

Haha. I think the Heat have a great chance; with the way they are playing right now, I'd actually call them the favorite.

[Make It Naaaashty]

Haha. I think the Heat have a great chance; with the way they are playing right now, I'd actually call them the favorite.

 

The way I look at it is that the Mavs match up well enough defensively against the Heat. There will be games when LBJ or Wade go off but I think Kidd, Terry, Stevenson, and Marion are good enough to handle them to a certain extent that they can win the series. Dallas have won 5 straight road game in the playoffs so I think they would be able to steal a game in Miami but we'll see.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Prodigy

[AboveLegit]

How did those guys fare in the series? Pretty sure not too well. My point is if you don't think fatigue played at least a small part in this, you're truly hilarious and not even worth my time to have an actual intelligent debate with.

In those two 40 min games Pierce played in, he dropped 27 twice. You still are missing my point, I'm not referencing their performance, simply stating that fatigue should not be included in this discussion.

 

I'm not saying that was the only reason; hell I'm not even saying it was the main reason Rose played poorly. The two main reasons I think Rose has played bad of late: 1. An inept offensive supporting cast. 2. Miami just playing great defense and throwing different defenders on him to keep them fresh.

Do you know the meaning of inept? Clearly you do not. Once again, Luol is a very good spot up shooter, and while he definitely has his flaws, he still is a viable threat in the proper offensive set. Boozer is the same thing, they brought him in with the intention of providing Derrick with a low post presence. He thrived under Sloan's offensive system, Deron Williams and him made a living off of the pick n roll.

 

Don't tell me Rose has nothing when Deron Williams rode that pick n roll to nearly four 50-win seasons. Now he has the so called MVP on his hands, the best defense we've seen since the '08 Celtics, and all of a sudden he's become inept.

 

Rose set Boozer up several times. Boozer's not like Amar'e, or even Garnett, for example. He's not a guy who can get his own shot with a quick move to the basket, or a great midrange jumpshot.... He needs to score garbage points down low or be set up. The only thing I like about Boozer's game is he is a good rebounder. Other than that, he's really not that good of a player.

He's not one dimensional, meaning he can either shoot the midrange shot, or post up. How's that not getting your own shot? Did it ever occur to you that maybe Rose has not been utilizing him properly in the offense? If he wasn't that good of a player, the Bulls would not have given him a 80 million dollar deal.

 

And stop comparing him to Westbrook. The difference is WESTBROOK HAS DURANT, AND ROSE DOESN'T! Rose is the MVP because he has carried his team all year! Westbrook has not carried his team all year! Durant has. Jesus Christ, stop bringing up Russell Westbrook in this entire thing.

I compared their playing styles, which has nothing to do with Durant.. STOP BRINGING UP DURANT!! Not sure you've realized this or not, but Durant has no effect on Westbrook playing out of the offense at times, and playing out of control. Just like Rose, he has found himself doing too much with the ball rather than relying on teammates.

[Dash]

Rose was definitely getting exhausted by overtime, I don't see how anyone can deny that but the thing is that he was playing a pretty poor game before regulation even ended.

[JYD]

In those two 40 min games Pierce played in, he dropped 27 twice. You still are missing my point, I'm not referencing their performance, simply stating that fatigue should not be included in this discussion.

 

 

Do you know the meaning of inept? Clearly you do not. Once again, Luol is a very good spot up shooter, and while he definitely has his flaws, he still is a viable threat in the proper offensive set. Boozer is the same thing, they brought him in with the intention of providing Derrick with a low post presence. He thrived under Sloan's offensive system, Deron Williams and him made a living off of the pick n roll.

 

Don't tell me Rose has nothing when Deron Williams rode that pick n roll to nearly four 50-win seasons. Now he has the so called MVP on his hands, the best defense we've seen since the '08 Celtics, and all of a sudden he's become inept.

 

 

He's not one dimensional, meaning he can either shoot the midrange shot, or post up. How's that not getting your own shot? Did it ever occur to you that maybe Rose has not been utilizing properly in the offense? If he wasn't that good of a player, the Bulls would not have given him a 80 million dollar deal.

 

 

I compared their playing styles, which has nothing to do with Durant.. STOP BRINGING UP DURANT!! Not sure you've realized this or not, but Durant has no effect on Westbrook playing out of the offense at times, and playing out of control. Just like Rose, he has found himself doing too much with the ball rather than relying on teammates.

Ahh too tired to respond, but I'll give it my best shot.

 

- Fatigue has played a factor. Rose has to do far more for his team than anyone in these playoffs, maybe outside of Dwight.. but you get my drift.

 

- Deng is not a true offensive threat. He's a nice role player; not a No. 2 option. And Boozer's offensive game suits playing with D-Will far more than Rose. Why? Because Williams is a better passer that Rose - Williams spoon fed Boozer dunks many of times. The Bulls don't even run post up plays. Posting up is a lost art in the NBA anyway. It's rarely ever done...Back in the 90's when I grew up watching, the game truly slowed down in the playoffs and it was a huge aspect - just not the case anymore.

 

- Rose plays out of control at times, especially in this series because he feels he has to. Westbrook is the No 2 option on his team, Rose No 1...That's why their situations are not comparable. At times, Rose has to try to force the issue because he is the go to guy. It goes through him. With Westbrook, the offense goes through Durant. How would it be if Deng decided he was going to take the ball, and Rose doesn't touch it for about 4 straight possessions in the final 3 minutes of the game? I'm pretty sure people would be crying about that. That's pretty much the case with Westbrook. He tries to do way too much, when he needs to take a backseat to the better player on his team.

 

Edit: I'm going to sleep. I can barely keep my eyes open and my contacts are like drying up, Lol. Good debate AL, hopefully no hard feelings. Haha. Peace man.

Edited May 25, 2011 by JYD

[Nitro]

JYD- You are giving a HUGE double-standard regarding Rose and his 'fatigue'. LeBron has played more minutes than Rose each game, had more points in 3 of the 4 games, the same or more assists in 3 out of 4 games, more blocks/steals/rebounds in each game, and has been assigned to tougher defensive assignments. Much the same can be applied to when he was in Cleveland without Wade/Bosh. Fatigue should not be used as an excuse for superstar players. The fact is that this year Rose has been a little overrated like Durant was last season.

 

As for the game, tough loss for the Bulls, but Rose took way too many bad shots...9 3PA is far too many for him. Korver is also really killing the team as he helps open up the paint for Rose to operate. Besides Rose, Gibson and Korver, the rest of the team played exceptionally well, but they just didn't have enough firepower, even with Wade playing one of the worst offensive playoff games I've ever seen from him. LeBron was dominant, Mike Miller finally showed up, and with Haslem finally back the team is really firing on all cylinders.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Nitro

[reno]

JYD- You are giving a HUGE double-standard regarding Rose and his 'fatigue'. LeBron has played more minutes than Rose each game, had more points in 3 of the 4 games, the same or more assists in 3 out of 4 games, more blocks/steals/rebounds in each game, and has been assigned to tougher defensive assignments. Much the same can be applied to when he was in Cleveland without Wade/Bosh. Fatigue should not be used as an excuse for superstar players. The fact is that this year Rose has been a little overrated like Durant was last season.

 

As for the game, tough loss for the Bulls, but Rose took way too many bad shots...9 3PA is far too many for him. Korver is also really killing the team as he helps open up the paint for Rose to operate. Besides Rose, Gibson and Korver, the rest of the team played exceptionally well, but they just didn't have enough firepower, even with Wade playing one of the worst offensive playoff games I've ever seen from him. LeBron was dominant, Mike Miller finally showed up, and with Haslem finally back the team is really firing on all cylinders.

That is very true, and I agree with you. I just think the whole season has caught up with rose. Hes still very young, this is the farthest/longest season hes ever had with the bulls. Its a new experience for him, hopefully he will learn from his mistakes and come back better next season. If bulls want to compete for the nba finals however, we need another star power, another all star scorer, someone who can create their own shots and take the pressure off d rose.

[JYD]

JYD- You are giving a HUGE double-standard regarding Rose and his 'fatigue'. LeBron has played more minutes than Rose each game, had more points in 3 of the 4 games, the same or more assists in 3 out of 4 games, more blocks/steals/rebounds in each game, and has been assigned to tougher defensive assignments. Much the same can be applied to when he was in Cleveland without Wade/Bosh. Fatigue should not be used as an excuse for superstar players. The fact is that this year Rose has been a little overrated like Durant was last season.

Nah man. No double-standard... It's totally different when you're the main guy, with little to no support, and getting hammered everytime at the hoop. LeBron is older, been through more seasons/playoffs so he's used to the grueling toll on his body. Plus, LeBron doesn't have to do nearly as much with Miami as he did when he was in Cleveland facing constant doubles, etc.

 

Rose's play takes a lot more energy than what LeBron's style does. Plus, like I said, when your the go to guy it takes a lot more energy than when you have Wade and Bosh on your team...

 

Like the above poster said, I do think the season has caught up to him a little bit. But like I've previously stated; I do not think that fatigue is the main reason for Rose's apparent poor play...

Edited May 26, 2011 by JYD

[Nitro]

Nah man. No double-standard... It's totally different when you're the main guy, with little to no support, and getting hammered everytime at the hoop. LeBron is older, been through more seasons/playoffs so he's used to the grueling toll on his body. Plus, LeBron doesn't have to do nearly as much with Miami as he did when he was in Cleveland facing constant doubles, etc.

 

Rose's play takes a lot more energy than what LeBron's style does. Plus, like I said, when your the go to guy it takes a lot more energy than when you have Wade and Bosh on your team...

 

That's ridiculous, Rose isn't scoring 35PPG like Kobe back in 2006. LeBron actually averaged more minutes than Rose did during the season, 2 more points than Rose, averaged about the same number of assists, and LeBron has a FAR bigger responsibility on the boards and defensively than Rose does...all that applies to what has gone on in this Heat-Bulls series as well. Rose has decent supporting offensive help, and while LeBron has considerably more, Rose also has far more help on defense and on the boards than LeBron does. Anthony and Haslem are very good defenders, but they don't anchor that defense....Wade and LeBron do. Besides Boozer, Rose is the worst defensive player in the Bulls starting lineup, and there's 4 guys on that bench (Gibson, Watson, Asik and Thomas) who are all better defensively. Meanwhile, LeBron is the Heat's best defender, defends the 1-4 positions, and sometimes the 5 as well. In this series, Rose has had easy defensive assignments in Bibby and Chalmers, and occasionally Wade (who has forced double teams in those situations because Rose can't defend him). Meanwhile LeBron has defended Deng, and last night locked down Rose, who is the most explosive player in the league. He's also grabbing rebounds at a PF's rate.

 

Also, the fact that LeBron is so much older and has more mileage should be extra incentive for fatigue to not be a viable excuse for Rose.

[JYD]

My statement about the fact that I think he's gotten tired/worn down in the last 2-3 games in this series has definitely been taken out of context just a bit at this point...I've stated several times that I don't think it's the main issue with his recent poor play or the fact they've lost the past few games...There's far more pressing issues (lack of offensive support on this basketball team, which I will not argue further because that's my firm opinion, and the championship caliber defense Miami/LeBron is playing on him.)

Edited May 26, 2011 by JYD

[Nitro]

My statement about the fact that I think he's gotten tired/worn down in the last 2-3 games in this series has definitely been taken out of context just a bit at this point...I've stated several times that I don't think it's the main issue with his recent poor play or the fact they've lost the past few games...There's far more pressing issues (lack of offensive support on this basketball team, which I will not argue further because that's my firm opinion, and the championship caliber defense Miami/LeBron is playing on him.)

 

I just don't see how you can say that with Rose, and not the same for LeBron, yet LeBron is still dominating while being defended by an equally strong defense (also being defended one-on-one by Deng, who some here felt should have been DPOY). Also, as mentioned before, he's struggled all post-season, shooting just 40%.