Is there still any doubt...

[Nitro]

...that LeBron is the best player in the league?

[Dash]

I would like to see how he stacks up against a healthy Kobe Bryant but since we probably never will then nope. None.

[htown11]

None whatsoever

[ChosenOne]

None.

[YugoRocketsFan]

Easily #1

[Flash]

The better debate now is Wade/Kobe for number 2.

[NomarFachix]

Timo Moz

[Real Deal]

He finally reached it, and I'm not sure if anyone else around is good enough to eventually take it from him (not yet, at least). Durant is still having a LOT of trouble.

 

Dwight decided to prove he can take over games, though, and there's no single player in the NBA that changes an offensive strategy better than him...easily the best defensive player in the NBA, and his offensive presence is still very, very effective (saying "presence" as it includes his actual production + presence on the court).

[La Bomba]

None whatsoever any more. Unless a prodigy high school prospect comes out in the next couple seasons, I don't see anyone challenge him as the best player in the league.

[Big Penny]

There shouldn't be.

[Poe]

I think he could be the best, but I have doubts in saying that.

[JYD]

I think he's definitely the best at this point. His performance in these playoffs have been nothing short of great.

[Multi-Billionaire]

I think Nowitzki has been a better player in the playoffs so far.

[Newman]

Nope.

[Dr. Feelgood]

I think Nowitzki has been a better player in the playoffs so far.

 

I agree with this. Dirk doesn't have the help that LeBron has in Wade and Bosh. Dirk has been nothing short of amazing during the post season this year. Just absolutely ruthless to any team standing in his way. This finals is gonna be a good one.

[Nitro]

I think Nowitzki has been a better player in the playoffs so far.

 

Why? Dirk's scored better, but LeBron has done EVERYTHING else better...rebound, pass, defend. And according to regular season Drtg, LeBron has had to face the best, 2nd best and 8th best defenses in the league this post-season.

[Check my Stats]

Going on his 3rd season now, sucks that it takes a damn championship for people to finally see it.

[Real Deal]

Going on his 3rd season now, sucks that it takes a damn championship for people to finally see it.

So you're saying he's not going to be considered the best player in the league this season?

[Check my Stats]

I think it is pretty clear what my post was implying.

[Multi-Billionaire]

Why? Dirk's scored better, but LeBron has done EVERYTHING else better...rebound, pass, defend. And according to regular season Drtg, LeBron has had to face the best, 2nd best and 8th best defenses in the league this post-season.

 

Racking numbers do not tell the whole story, at least not imo.

 

LeBron is definitely the more complete player than Dirk... but Dirk, like Dr. Feelgood said, has been ruthless to opponents in the playoffs. The Thunder have arguably the best frontcourt defenders in Ibaka, Collison, and Perkins... esp Ibaka... but he made the young athletic player look like he's old. Not only Dirk's destroying them with perimeter shots, but he's finishing inside too, actually he's waltzing inside.

 

 

I wouldn't necessarily classify the best player as "the best scorer", but I think "the best player" definition to me is a player who consistently comes through when his team needs him the most and leads the team to wins. To me, there's no player who fits this description perfectly besides Dirk. He not only came through, the manner he put his team on his back when the team needed him the most was remarkable... he was UNSTOPPABLE.

 

Sure LeBron did come through in Game 5, but he had help from Wade. Bosh also made things easier with his 30 pt games in Game 1 and 3. LeBron had help that he can consistently count on EVERY game and opposing teams can consistently dread on EVERY game. Dirk? Marion had a 26 pt game to close out the Thunder, but that was his season high, and unlike LeBron who can consistently count on his teammates every game, Dirk canNOT consistently count on his past-their-prime teammates Marion, Kidd, or role players like Chandler, Terry, and Barea who are expected to play like role players not bona fide superstar help like Wade.

 

 

---

 

 

Put it this way, LeBron was in Dirk's shoes a year ago as a lone superstar when he put "the best player"'s stats but his Cavaliers team still lost series to Celtics. Worse, despite his mind-boggling numbers in his final Cav game, everyone (including Cavs fans who at that point were still hopeful he would resign) was saying he quit. If numbers are supposed to determine how good you are, why were his numbers in that last game largely ignored?

 

LeBron has always been "the best player" in terms of putting most impressive stats in the past 3 years... but again, numbers do not tell the whole story imo. It's the player who wills his team to victory. LeBron was in Dirk's shoes, and we know how it went, and why he chose to join Wade and Bosh... it's because he didn't want the pressure that is on Dirk's shoulders now.

[Nitro]

Racking numbers do not tell the whole story, at least not imo.

 

LeBron is definitely the more complete player than Dirk... but Dirk, like Dr. Feelgood said, has been ruthless to opponents in the playoffs. The Thunder have arguably the best frontcourt defenders in Ibaka, Collison, and Perkins... esp Ibaka... but he made the young athletic player look like he's old. Not only Dirk's destroying them with perimeter shots, but he's finishing inside too, actually he's waltzing inside.

 

 

I wouldn't necessarily classify the best player as "the best scorer", but I think "the best player" definition to me is a player who consistently comes through when his team needs him the most and leads the team to wins. To me, there's no player who fits this description perfectly besides Dirk. He not only came through, the manner he put his team on his back when the team needed him the most was remarkable... he was UNSTOPPABLE.

 

Sure LeBron did come through in Game 5, but he had help from Wade. Bosh also made things easier with his 30 pt games in Game 1 and 3. LeBron had help that he can consistently count on EVERY game and opposing teams can consistently dread on EVERY game. Dirk? Marion had a 26 pt game to close out the Thunder, but that was his season high, and unlike LeBron who can consistently count on his teammates every game, Dirk canNOT consistently count on his past-their-prime teammates Marion, Kidd, or role players like Chandler, Terry, and Barea who are expected to play like role players not bona fide superstar help like Wade.

 

 

---

 

 

Put it this way, LeBron was in Dirk's shoes a year ago as a lone superstar when he put "the best player"'s stats but his Cavaliers team still lost series to Celtics. Worse, despite his mind-boggling numbers in his final Cav game, everyone (including Cavs fans who at that point were still hopeful he would resign) was saying he quit. If numbers are supposed to determine how good you are, why were his numbers in that last game largely ignored?

 

LeBron has always been "the best player" in terms of putting most impressive stats in the past 3 years... but again, numbers do not tell the whole story imo. It's the player who wills his team to victory. LeBron was in Dirk's shoes, and we know how it went, and why he chose to join Wade and Bosh... it's because he didn't want the pressure that is on Dirk's shoulders now.

 

1) Give me a break...LeBron faced the best, 2nd best and 8th best defenses in the league this post-season, and faced arguably the 3 best defensive SF's (besides himself) in Iguodala, Pierce and Deng. So, do NOT give me the arguement of the tough defense Dirk has faced to show he's been more impressive than LeBron considering LeBron has faced much more difficult defense so far.

 

2) Ok, let's throw away the stats...Dirk has been the better scorer this post-season and I don't argue that. However, LeBron has been the primary ballhandler and playmaker for the Heat (and done a damn good job), has rebounded better than Dirk despite playing SF, and has been arguably the best defensive player this entire post-season. In other words, he's dominating other areas of the game in a way that Dirk has not, and it's not stat-stuffing...he's literally winning games with those other abilities in a way that Dirk cannot. For christ's sake he locked down the league MVP, who's a PG, to win the last 2 games of the ECF. Dirk doesn't make that kind of impact when he himself is not taking the shot.

 

3) Dirk has been amazing in the clutch this post-season, but so has LeBron...he dominated Boston in Games 4 and 5 of that series in the 4th quarter, as well as Chicago in Games 2, 4 and 5. Not only was he scoring, but he was playing lockdown defense and making plays with the pass.

[Multi-Billionaire]

Again, we saw how LeBron's team perform when he was the lone superstar in Cleveland, and why he chose to join forces with Wade and Bosh... it's because he wanted no pressure.

 

It's easy to perform to the best of your ability without pressure, be it basketball, study, work, business. But can you consistently bring it regardless of the circumstance (pressure) and more importantly bring the results (Ws) at the end?

 

LeBron was amazing in Game 5, but let's not forget Wade's 4 pt play, which was the turning point and momentum of the game. Without that Wade basket, LeBron would probably have played with less swagger when he made a 3 to tie and then broke down Brewer for the lead.

 

 

In Dallas, they all expect Dirk to deliver the points, the turning point/ momentum, the wins... ALL by himself.

 

 

Meanwhile, the Iguodalas, Pierces, and Dengs are often too distracted and tend to leave LeBron to help on penetrating Wade/ Bosh.

 

 

---

 

 

The winning point here is LeBron's decision to leave Cleveland and join Miami to avoid the pressure that all lone superstars commonly have, that does it for me to give Dirk the nod as the best player.

 

I mean, LeBron could have joined Bulls, which were arguably the better fit... but he'd rather risk playing with another ball-dominant perimeter player in Wade because at that point Wade and Bosh clearly had more superstar power to help ease his load than not-yet-MVP Rose.

[Nitro]

Again, we saw how LeBron's team perform when he was the lone superstar in Cleveland, and why he chose to join forces with Wade and Bosh... it's because he wanted no pressure.

 

It's easy to perform to the best of your ability without pressure, be it basketball, study, work, business. But can you consistently bring it regardless of the circumstance (pressure) and more importantly bring the results (Ws) at the end?

 

LeBron was amazing in Game 5, but let's not forget Wade's 4 pt play, which was the turning point and momentum of the game. Without that Wade basket, LeBron would probably have played with less swagger when he made a 3 to tie and then broke down Brewer for the lead.

 

 

In Dallas, they all expect Dirk to deliver the points, the turning point/ momentum, the wins... ALL by himself.

 

Give me a break. LeBron brought his team to the Finals as a 4th year player, including an all-time clutch performance in Game 5 of the ECF against Detroit where he scored the last 29pts or whatever of the game. In 2008 he had a 40pt game in Game 7 against the eventual champs. In 2009 he averaged 38/8/8 in the ECF against the Magic, including hitting a GW 3 and a 14pt 4th quarter in Games 2 and 5, which were the only 2 games the team won. Last year against Boston was the only time he really failed to do what could realistically be expected from ANY player in the league, and even in last year's Game 6 he had a monster 29/19/10 triple-double.

 

Also, for the last few seasons, LeBron has statistically been the strongest clutch performer in the league. Throw the stats away if you want, but that's a fact. This post-season, which we are debating, LeBron has been every bit as reliable and dominant as Dirk has in clutch situations.

 

Oh, and stop downplaying Dirk's teammates...yes, he's the undisputed #1 scoring option while Wade occasionally takes the role on the Heat, but he still has a future HoF player in Kidd, arguably the best scoring 6th man in the league in Terry, former All-Stars in Marion and Peja, a DPOY candidate in Chandler, and then a bunch of really solid role players in Barea and Haywood. If one of them has a bad game, they have the kind of depth to withstand it. If Wade or Bosh has a bad game, then LeBron has to go bezerk for them to win.

 

 

Meanwhile, the Iguodalas, Pierces, and Dengs are often too distracted and tend to leave LeBron to help on penetrating Wade/ Bosh.

 

That's absolutely ridiculous and shows you did not follow any of those series' closely...the team was not getting anything in the paint, and LeBron was not getting ANY easy points except in transition (which, except for the first few minutes of Game 1, they got none of against Chicago). He is also not a catch and shoot player or someone who makes sharp cuts off-ball, and when he does do damage offensively, it's with the ball in his hands in an iso or pick and roll, with the defense keyed in on him.

 

The winning point here is LeBron's decision to leave Cleveland and join Miami to avoid the pressure that all lone superstars commonly have, that does it for me to give Dirk the nod as the best player.

 

I mean, LeBron could have joined Bulls, which were arguably the better fit... but he'd rather risk playing with another ball-dominant perimeter player in Wade because at that point Wade and Bosh clearly had more superstar power to help ease his load than not-yet-MVP Rose.

 

LeBron is playing the same damn role he was in Cleveland...still dominating the ball, still getting up 20 shots, still having to defend the other team's best player, etc... If there was so much pressure alleviated offensively, the Heat wouldn't have had struggled so much to crack 90pts like they did against Chicago. Offensively, he is expected to do a LOT more than Dirk because not only does he have to score in volume, but also be the primary ballhandler and playmaker, which Dirk does not have to do. He's also expect to rebound more than Dirk (which he has this post-season), and be a lockdown defender unlike Dirk.

 

The key point you are missing is that Dirk doesn't have responsibility other than to score...LeBron has to be a game-changer as a scorer, ballhandler, passer, rebounder and defender, along with being the team's closer.

[Multi-Billionaire]

The Heat did not get anything in the paint? Bosh was dunking and jizzing on Noah and Bulls in half court sets... to prevent Wade from getting to paint, LeBron's man had to help.

 

I'm not saying LeBron cannot perform under pressure as a lone superstar... he can. But did he get the results? He had incredible numbers vs. Magic and Celtics in the last 2 years but lost. Again, my definition of "best player" is not the guy who produces most impressive stats... but those who will his team to wins under pressure. Perhaps all that pressure finally got to him in his final ever Cav game vs. Celtics where people, including his own loyal fans, questioned his body language.

 

 

If you're a superstar in NBA like LeBron, you'd have a lot more pressure when you're all by yourself vs. when you have two great players by your side. It's not hard to imagine. Dirk's job may be to only score, but he's constantly double-teamed because he's the only offensive threat they had. If they double teamed LeBron, Wade and Bosh will be there to help, and opposing teams knowing how great LeBron passes the ball are reluctant to double. There's no way LeBron would have got a 1-on-1 vs. Brewer situation at the end if he didn't have Wade (12 pts in the quarter) and Bosh on the floor. Had he been the lone superstar, the Bulls would have forced the ball out of his hands. That's what Dirk faces. It's no contest really: both Dirk and LeBron have been impressive, but LeBron has had the much easier road.

 

 

Put it this way, I'm sticking to my opinion that Dirk is the best player so far in this playoffs... and if he beats the 3 beasts, it only cements my argument as the truth. But if the Heat win, I can only say "LeBron has tremendous help in Wade and Bosh" and I'm sure many people will agree.

[Nitro]

The Heat did not get anything in the paint? Bosh was dunking and jizzing on Noah and Bulls in half court sets... to prevent Wade from getting to paint, LeBron's man had to help.

 

Last night 7 of LeBron's 8 FG's were jumpers, and the reason Wade had 9 TO's and had such a down series was because he couldn't get it into the paint. When you got teams like Miami and Chicago with players that can create a wall of defense then rotate quickly on the pass, it makes it possible to stick your man while helping stop another player from getting to the rim. The ECF for both teams is a prime example of that.

 

I'm not saying LeBron cannot perform under pressure as a lone superstar... he can. But did he get the results? He had incredible numbers vs. Magic and Celtics in the last 2 years but lost. Again, my definition of "best player" is not the guy who produces most impressive stats... but those who will his team to wins under pressure. Perhaps all that pressure finally got to him in his final ever Cav game vs. Celtics where people, including his own loyal fans, questioned his body language.

 

If you're a superstar in NBA like LeBron, you'd have a lot more pressure when you're all by yourself vs. when you have two great players by your side. It's not hard to imagine. Dirk's job may be to only score, but he's constantly double-teamed because he's the only offensive threat they had. If they double teamed LeBron, Wade and Bosh will be there to help, and opposing teams knowing how great LeBron passes the ball are reluctant to double. There's no way LeBron would have got a 1-on-1 vs. Brewer situation at the end if he didn't have Wade (12 pts in the quarter) and Bosh on the floor. Had he been the lone superstar, the Bulls would have forced the ball out of his hands. That's what Dirk faces. It's no contest really: both Dirk and LeBron have been impressive, but LeBron has had the much easier road.

 

At some point the team simply isn't good enough, and that's what happened to LeBron AND Wade the last few seasons, and what's happened with Dirk his entire career. MJ had Pippen, Shaq had Kobe, Duncan had Robinson and then Manu/Parker, Wade had Shaq, Pierce had KG/Allen, Kobe had Gasol....you don't win in today's league without a 2nd wheel (except for in extremely rare cases like the 2004 Pistons). If the Mavs beat the Heat, it will be because they get a huge series from someone other than Dirk along with Dirk giving them his usual production.

 

Bottom line is team accomplishments aren't the best way to gauge a player's ability. Dirk could never take on the responsibility LeBron had in Cleveland and do as well with that situation. Don't forget that LeBron has been to two Finals' the last 5 seasons, an ECF and the semi's twice, while this is only the 2nd year since 2006 where Dirk has been out of the first round...so what exactly has Dirk proven to show he can do so much more as the 'lone star?'

 

And Dirk is NOT being consistently doubled...I didn't get to watch the Mavs-Blazers series very closely, but in the Laker and Thunder series' he was being defended primarily with single coverage. Also, once again, none of the defenses he has faced have been as elite as Boston or Chicago's, both from an individual and team standpoint.

 

Put it this way, I'm sticking to my opinion that Dirk is the best player so far in this playoffs... and if he beats the 3 beasts, it only cements my argument as the truth. But if the Heat win, I can only say "LeBron has tremendous help in Wade and Bosh" and I'm sure many people will agree.

 

Then why are so many people hopping back on the LeBron bandwagon, and why is he so unanymously considered the best player in the league? Why would someone like Pippen say he's better than Jordan?

 

Bottom line is besides scoring, which LeBron has been doing at a stellar clip as well, LeBron has done EVERYTHING better than Dirk by a wide margin this post-season.