Is there still any doubt...

[Erick Blasco]

Last night 7 of LeBron's 8 FG's were jumpers, and the reason Wade had 9 TO's and had such a down series was because he couldn't get it into the paint. When you got teams like Miami and Chicago with players that can create a wall of defense then rotate quickly on the pass, it makes it possible to stick your man while helping stop another player from getting to the rim. The ECF for both teams is a prime example of that.

 

 

 

At some point the team simply isn't good enough, and that's what happened to LeBron AND Wade the last few seasons, and what's happened with Dirk his entire career. MJ had Pippen, Shaq had Kobe, Duncan had Robinson and then Manu/Parker, Wade had Shaq, Pierce had KG/Allen, Kobe had Gasol....you don't win in today's league without a 2nd wheel (except for in extremely rare cases like the 2004 Pistons). If the Mavs beat the Heat, it will be because they get a huge series from someone other than Dirk along with Dirk giving them his usual production.

 

Bottom line is team accomplishments aren't the best way to gauge a player's ability. Dirk could never take on the responsibility LeBron had in Cleveland and do as well with that situation. Don't forget that LeBron has been to two Finals' the last 5 seasons, an ECF and the semi's twice, while this is only the 2nd year since 2006 where Dirk has been out of the first round...so what exactly has Dirk proven to show he can do so much more as the 'lone star?'

 

And Dirk is NOT being consistently doubled...I didn't get to watch the Mavs-Blazers series very closely, but in the Laker and Thunder series' he was being defended primarily with single coverage. Also, once again, none of the defenses he has faced have been as elite as Boston or Chicago's, both from an individual and team standpoint.

 

 

 

Then why are so many people hopping back on the LeBron bandwagon, and why is he so unanymously considered the best player in the league? Why would someone like Pippen say he's better than Jordan?

 

Bottom line is besides scoring, which LeBron has been doing at a stellar clip as well, LeBron has done EVERYTHING better than Dirk by a wide margin this post-season.

 

Lots of screen/rolls that Portland switched leaving Dirk with smaller defenders. He may or may not have been doubled, as he was usually at the top of the circle. He wasn't consistently doubled, though sometimes guards would dig in.

 

There's some nitpicking I can do, but you're right with these posts. Multi-B hasn't taken into account the poor defense played by Portland and Los Angeles on Dirk, plus awful Game One defense vs. OKC. Dirk wasn't brilliantly spectacular after Game One, particularly against Collison. Plus OKc missed a lot of help assignments.

[Real Deal]

Odom played Dirk very well, for at least two of the four games. He held Dirk to 39% shooting either in the first two, or middle two. It was Gasol that was getting absolutely roasted (and Ron, on switches).

[Finch23]

Beat Dallas and win the finals MVP and then I'll agree.

[Abro]

In no way shape or form is Dirk Better than LeBron.

Not gonna say that LeBron is/isn't the best player yet until after the finals. Because I believe I will jinx him lol

Edited May 30, 2011 by Abro

[Showtime16]

He is not even the best player on his team last time I checked.........D-Wade and I love how everybody rushes to say LeBron's is the best player after one good playoff run when Kobe been doing it and last time I checked he still the best 5 Kobe 1 D-Wade 0 LeBron. If the Heat win then we can start talking about Lebron till then chill with that and one more thing who means more to their team Dirk or Lebron Heat can win without Lebron Mavs don't make playoffs without Dirk. I watch to much Skip lmao

[Showtime16]

Odom played Dirk very well, for at least two of the four games. He held Dirk to 39% shooting either in the first two, or middle two. It was Gasol that was getting absolutely roasted (and Ron, on switches).

Lakers need to do something to help my Dawg Kobe......Gasol is good not great Bynum=over rated/mediocre Put a fork in D Fish Ron Artest is on a steady fast decline from what I have seen and I am a fan of the guy love players who play hard/reckless, but he is regressing Shannon Brown is inconsistent Steve Blake not athletic enough Lamar Odom is ok he is just soft Matt Barnes Iike him but he can't score.

Lakers need to get more athletic at PG and SF bring shooting specialist to spread floor and trade Bynum while he has value. They also need an athletic big. Kobe is the best player in the game he is just getting old and needs more help imagine if he had bosh and D Wade shit would be ridiculous.Kobe's miles Finals back to back Olympics/Gold 35-40 MPG lotta where and tear in pass four years. People are always so quick to jump on the next thing, what is "now" forgetting the pass 1-2 years of performance and not looking at things as a whole "hype".

[Showtime16]

Pippen should have his rings taken away LMJAO no respect for the real King MJ

[Showtime16]

If the Heat would play the old Bad Boys(Bill Laimbeer, John Long, Chuck Daly Oscar Feldman, John Salley, James Edwards, Rick Mahorn Michael Williams, Vinnie Johnson, Fennis Dembo, Dennis Rodman, Mark Aguirre, Joe Dumars, Isiah Thomas)Detroit Pistons Bron and Co wouldnt make the first half. They rely on the drive to much Pistons wouldnt have that shit!

[Nitro]

He is not even the best player on his team last time I checked.........D-Wade and I love how everybody rushes to say LeBron's is the best player after one good playoff run when Kobe been doing it and last time I checked he still the best 5 Kobe 1 D-Wade 0 LeBron. If the Heat win then we can start talking about Lebron till then chill with that and one more thing who means more to their team Dirk or Lebron Heat can win without Lebron Mavs don't make playoffs without Dirk. I watch to much Skip lmao

 

Team success doesn't equal individual ability. If the Heat win, LeBron will still be the same player he was in the Bulls series, during the regular season and even last year, just like Kobe would have been the same player regardless if the Lakers won or lost against the Mavs in the semi's. Individually, LeBron is clearly a better player than Kobe at this moment. He's a better and more efficient scorer (from both 2 and 3), better passer who quantifies it by averaging about 3 more assists (with a better assist:turnover ration), much better rebounder, and at this point is a much better defensive player. I can give you an in-depth analysis on each area, but I doubt you will bother to even refute it so I won't bother. All of that applied to the LeBron vs. Wade arguement as well, and that is hard to admit for me since Wade is my favorite player.

 

And who cares if Dirk means more to his team? LeBron's Cavs teams were FAR worse than Dirk's Mavs, and unless you believe LeBron has significantly declined since last season, then you'd see how stupid of an arguement that is to use as anti-LeBron propoganda.

[Showtime16]

Team success doesn't equal individual ability. If the Heat win, LeBron will still be the same player he was in the Bulls series, during the regular season and even last year, just like Kobe would have been the same player regardless if the Lakers won or lost against the Mavs in the semi's. Individually, LeBron is clearly a better player than Kobe at this moment. He's a better and more efficient scorer (from both 2 and 3), better passer who quantifies it by averaging about 3 more assists (with a better assist:turnover ration), much better rebounder, and at this point is a much better defensive player. I can give you an in-depth analysis on each area, but I doubt you will bother to even refute it so I won't bother. All of that applied to the LeBron vs. Wade arguement as well, and that is hard to admit for me since Wade is my favorite player.

 

And who cares if Dirk means more to his team? LeBron's Cavs teams were FAR worse than Dirk's Mavs, and unless you believe LeBron has significantly declined since last season, then you'd see how stupid of an arguement that is to use as anti-LeBron propoganda.

Lebron is not a better 3 point shooter then Kobe and in game 2 Wade and Kirk both looked like better players then your beloved Lebron. You are on his meat. May be next season I will be able to say he is the best player in the league as I will admit he was better then Kobe this post season and he may be better then him at this exact moment, but Im looking at the body of work over the last 2-3 season. Kobe without a shadow of doubt is the best player until Lebron out plays him for multiple season=making it farther then him in the playoffs I don't want to hear he is better then Kobe. Plus stats are often deceiving and overrated. I look at the players as I watch them. That being said D-Wade is a natural leader who is just as good at lebron. Lebron is the best athlete in the league tho. PS we can ague this all day bottom line. Kobe D-Wade Lebron Dirk are all very good players and you prolly would love to have any of them on your team if you are a team in the NBA. Best is an opinionated word that can never be fully settled so looks like we are just ***** on that one. Im not saying Lebron is not the best im just saying he is not the undisputed best at least not right now. Let me guess he is better then MJ to! LMAO

[Showtime16]

Lebron is not a better 3 point shooter then Kobe and in game 2 Wade and Kirk both looked like better players then your beloved Lebron. You are on his meat. May be next season I will be able to say he is the best player in the league as I will admit he was better then Kobe this post season and he may be better then him at this exact moment, but Im looking at the body of work over the last 2-3 season. Kobe without a shadow of doubt is the best player until Lebron out plays him for multiple season=making it farther then him in the playoffs I don't want to hear he is better then Kobe. Plus stats are often deceiving and overrated. I look at the players as I watch them. That being said D-Wade is a natural leader who is just as good at lebron. Lebron is the best athlete in the league tho. PS we can ague this all day bottom line. Kobe D-Wade Lebron Dirk are all very good players and you prolly would love to have any of them on your team if you are a team in the NBA. Best is an opinionated word that can never be fully settled so looks like we are just ***** on that one. Im not saying Lebron is not the best im just saying he is not the undisputed best at least not right now. Let me guess he is better then MJ to! LMAO

Team success= your ability to make others better your will/desire to win your ability to be a team mate your ability to win(some people have it some don't) Basketball is not an individual game but a team sport where individual greatness help lift your team to greater accomplishment/accolades (NBA Titles) Greatness cannot be measured by just stats. Are you a stat junky? Madk a decision off of your beliefs and what you see with your own eyes not what some numbers say. Use your on knowledge of the game. Career Accomplishments team accomplishments character skills winning mentality stats ect.

[Nitro]

Lebron is not a better 3 point shooter then Kobe and in game 2 Wade and Kirk both looked like better players then your beloved Lebron. You are on his meat. May be next season I will be able to say he is the best player in the league as I will admit he was better then Kobe this post season and he may be better then him at this exact moment, but Im looking at the body of work over the last 2-3 season. Kobe without a shadow of doubt is the best player until Lebron out plays him for multiple season=making it farther then him in the playoffs I don't want to hear he is better then Kobe. Plus stats are often deceiving and overrated. I look at the players as I watch them. That being said D-Wade is a natural leader who is just as good at lebron. Lebron is the best athlete in the league tho. PS we can ague this all day bottom line. Kobe D-Wade Lebron Dirk are all very good players and you prolly would love to have any of them on your team if you are a team in the NBA. Best is an opinionated word that can never be fully settled so looks like we are just ***** on that one. Im not saying Lebron is not the best im just saying he is not the undisputed best at least not right now. Let me guess he is better then MJ to! LMAO

 

1) LeBron shot better from 3 each of the last 2 seasons, and shot better each of the last 2 post-seasons. Ever since Kobe's knees started deteriorating he hasn't been able to get the same lift that he used to be able to get, thus effecting his jumper significantly. Even if you believe he's a better 3pt shooter than LeBron, it hasn't translated the last few seasons, including the playoffs.

 

2) Fine, let's throw away stats and I'll give you an analysis...

 

Scoring- LeBron is a much better finisher at the rim; with his strength and athleticism he is better at finishing with contact and contorting his body to hit all kinds of difficult shots in traffic. Meanwhile, Kobe has lost a step when it comes to being able to take player's off the dribble, and only on a few rare explosions does he explode around the rim. Kobe still has a wider arsenal of ways to score the basketball; whether it be in the post, in iso situations, off the PnR, in the post, or in the open court, Kobe still is a more polished offensive player. However, ever since LeBron became a consistent threat as a jumpshooter 2-3 years ago, and since Kobe started to lose his touch due to less lift, the versatility area hasn't mattered much because now LeBron can kill you from both inside and outside. When the defense is tight, he can still get to the rim very often, and when all driving lanes are cut off he can simply rise up and consistently hit jumpers in the defender's face...that's what used to be missing a few years ago. The only time versatility as a scorer means much is when the defense is able to deny you of your comfort zones and you are forced to beat the defense in other ways...now LeBron can do that (see- the Bulls and Celtics series'), and with greater efficiency than Kobe can.

 

Playmaking/passing- This is an area LeBron has always been better in. He's a more careful ballhandler, has a PG's anticipation of reading plays and knowing where to pass the ball before the play even develops, he has better vision due to his 2-3" height advantage over Kobe, and he's more on-point with his passing. The one aspect of passing/playmaking where Kobe has an advantage is when he dominates the ball, he will tend to get the ball out of his hands a little sooner than LeBron, which makes him less likely to stall the offense.

 

Rebounding- Once again, an area that LeBron has pretty much always been better in. Every year he grabs between 7-8 boards, and the last few post-seasons he has been up around 9 boards a game. Kobe is a very good rebounder for a SG, but LeBron is better, whether you want to see how he compares to Kobe or other SF's. LeBron's strength, athleticism and hands are once again the advantage.

 

Defense- At this point, LeBron is a much better defensive player than Kobe. I still might give Kobe a slightly edge in man-to-man defense, because he's less flat footed than LeBron and when he's locked-in he is more aggressive and cut-throat. However, man-to-man defense is just a small part of defense, and LeBron beats Kobe out in every other area. LeBron's help defense is far better; from being able to defend dribble-drives and then rotating onto 3pt shooters, to helping defend pick and rolls, to being able to switch off onto the 1-4 positions (and sometimes 5), to playing the passing lanes for steals, to blocking shots on the weakside or on the fastbreak...LeBron is just way more versatile and impactful of a defender than Kobe is.

 

Clutch ability- I still give this to Kobe, even though every stat says otherwise.

 

Also, keep in mind the major advantage LeBron has in being able to play the 1-4 positions, and sometimes all 5. That has allowed the Heat to plug up the holes they have at PG and C, and experiment with a bunch of different lineups most other teams can't get away with.

[Multi-Billionaire]

Dirk: 25.5ppg, 9.5rpg, 3.0apg

LeBron: 22.0ppg, 8.5rpg, 4.5apg

 

Is it safe to say Dirk is the better player in the Finals (or playoffs) so far? Especially the way he led the Mavs to Game 2 thrilling finish? Not only that, LeBron's "defense" has made Shawn Marion look like he's the old All Star Shawn Marion (18.0ppg, 9.0rpg, 3.5apg, 57.7FG%).

 

 

Is there still any doubt Dirk is better than this thread's best player in the NBA?

 

 

[Nitro]

Dirk: 25.5ppg, 9.5rpg, 3.0apg

LeBron: 22.0ppg, 8.5rpg, 4.5apg

 

Is it safe to say Dirk is the better player in the Finals (or playoffs) so far? Especially the way he led the Mavs to Game 2 thrilling finish? Not only that, LeBron's "defense" has made Shawn Marion look like he's the old All Star Shawn Marion (18.0ppg, 9.0rpg, 3.5apg, 57.7FG%).

 

 

Is there still any doubt Dirk is better than this thread's best player in the NBA?

 

 

 

Dirk's been better in the Finals than LeBron, but Wade has been better than both...so, if you're going to call Wade the best player in the game and series, it's something I won't argue.

 

:glasses: