Cavs looking to take Williams #1? Irving to Wolves?

[AboveLegit]

SamAmicoFSO Sam Amico

Source: Cavs bringing in Brandon Knight for workout early in week. Also, if Cavs take Williams No. 1, Wolves will take Irving, source says.

http://twitter.com/#!/SamAmicoFSO/status/82187227014242304

 

What the hell? Not sure how reliable Sam Amico is, but this would be just stupid.

[Real Deal]

Stupid for Cleveland, or Minnesota?

 

There's a chance that Brandon Knight shines. If so, Cleveland would be smart to pick up Williams, then take Knight at #4.

 

Only problem is, I really think Brandon Knight will be in Utah, and they have the third pick.

[AboveLegit]

Stupid for Cleveland, or Minnesota?

For both.

 

Only problem is, I really think Brandon Knight will be in Utah, and they have the third pick.

Precisely why I think it's stupid for the Cavs.

 

As for Minnesota, just give Rubio a chance and see how it goes. He has a ton of potential, and if utilized correctly, he will shine (or at least I think he will).

[Real Deal]

Precisely why I think it's stupid for the Cavs.

 

As for Minnesota, just give Rubio a chance and see how it goes. He has a ton of potential, and if utilized correctly, he will shine (or at least I think he will).

I have a gut feeling Devin Harris won't be in Utah much longer, so yeah, Brandon Knight should be a Jazz...musician (Jazzian, uh, a Jazz guy, a trumpet, whatever) when his name is called Thursday.

 

Question, though...if Cleveland DOES take Williams, who would Minnesota take? Kemba and Jimmer are both small point guards that play like two-guards, so they are out of the question. I don't think Kahn wants to bother with any other international BS. Leonard isn't good enough for the #2. Knight is a PG, might as well take Irving if you go that route. Marcus Morris? He's as much of a #2 as Leonard.

 

Trade the pick?

[ChosenOne]

I have said it all along, Cleavland will take Williams with the first pick, and then turn around and take Knight or Irving at #4.

[AboveLegit]

I have a gut feeling Devin Harris won't be in Utah much longer, so yeah, Brandon Knight should be a Jazz...musician (Jazzian, uh, a Jazz guy, a trumpet, whatever) when his name is called Thursday.

 

Question, though...if Cleveland DOES take Williams, who would Minnesota take? Kemba and Jimmer are both small point guards that play like two-guards, so they are out of the question. I don't think Kahn wants to bother with any other international BS. Leonard isn't good enough for the #2. Knight is a PG, might as well take Irving if you go that route. Marcus Morris? He's as much of a #2 as Leonard.

 

Trade the pick?

Yeah I'd still trade the pick if I was them, but if they get legit value for Irving, then they might as well take him for the time being (If I was the Lakers, I'd definitely look into calling Kahn up).

 

As for Utah, I think they should take a look at Kemba. I know he's known as a scorer, but he has better PG instincts than Knight does, he has a better idea of how to run an offense. Jefferson and Milsap need a guy capable of running pick n rolls to get them the ball, they don't need a score first PG in Knight who has an inconsistent jumpshot.

[Make It Naaaashty]

Williams has better potential than Irving imo so I wouldn't be surprised at all if he went first. I've actually expected Williams to go first and Irving to drop to around #4, I just haven't seen enough out of him to say that he'll have success in the NBA. I would take Williams, Kemba, and all the international players that are expected to go early before him but that's just me.

[Dash]

I don't think taking Irving would be "stupid" for Minnesota, they would be taking the best player in the entire draft. Personally I could see the Irving/Rubio backcourt working out but in case it doesn't, you could always trade one or the other and get a nice haul in return.

 

On Cavs part...yeah this would be really stupid, you take the best player with the first pick and don't look back (unless you're the Wizards but the Cavs don't have any legitimate star at point).

[AboveLegit]

I don't think taking Irving would be "stupid" for Minnesota, they would be taking the best player in the entire draft. Personally I could see the Irving/Rubio backcourt working out but in case it doesn't, you could always trade one or the other and get a nice haul in return.

I'm not sure how two ball dominant point guards in the backcourt can work.

 

Minnesota is not in the position Cleveland is in in terms of taking the BPA, they have to go with what fits, which is why there's a ton of skepticism among drafting Williams.

[Real Deal]

I'm not really sure if Irving is the clear-cut best player in the draft. Derrick Williams has a lot of tools to offer a team.

[AboveLegit]

I'm not really sure if Irving is the clear-cut best player in the draft. Derrick Williams has a lot of tools to offer a team.

I criticize Kyrie a lot, but there's no doubt that it's better for a team like Cleveland to build around a PG (given the amount of great young PG's in the league). He could end up being a nightmare to defend given his playmaking ability and shot.

 

Not to mention, the crop of forwards next year makes the decision to draft Kyrie that much easier.

[Real Deal]

I criticize Kyrie a lot, but there's no doubt that it's better for a team like Cleveland to build around a PG (given the amount of great young PG's in the league). He could end up being a nightmare to defend given his playmaking ability and shot.

 

Not to mention, the crop of forwards next year makes the decision to draft Kyrie that much easier.

Best player, not better franchise player.

 

If we're asking who the Cavaliers need to build around, it's obviously a PG or a legit big. If you're going to select a small forward to build around, it better be LeBron James or Kevin Durant. Williams isn't going to get that far (hope he proves me wrong, but he won't).

 

Dan Gilbert needs to be patient, though. Irving could take a little longer than CP3 and D-Will did. A PG's transition seems to be the most difficult. That jump from college to the pros is huge for most of them. He has to accept the rebuilding stage, stop worrying about winning a title before LeBron, and put the necessary pieces around Irving for a playoff team, then worry about contention and keeping Irving happy.

[Dash]

I'm not sure how two ball dominant point guards in the backcourt can work.

 

Minnesota is not in the position Cleveland is in in terms of taking the BPA, they have to go with what fits, which is why there's a ton of skepticism among drafting Williams.

 

Rubio isn't that ball dominant and he was able to work with other point guards in the past and quite successfully. Can't say the same thing about Irving but potentially it could work out.

 

No one expected to go in the top 5-8 would fit in the Minnesota roster except for Enes Kanter, and I'm not sure if you would want to have two poor post defenders in your starting lineup for the next 5-10 years. Take Irving (if he's there) and call it a night.

 

I'm not really sure if Irving is the clear-cut best player in the draft. Derrick Williams has a lot of tools to offer a team.

 

But no definite position.

[AboveLegit]

Best player, not better franchise player.

 

If we're asking who the Cavaliers need to build around, it's obviously a PG or a legit big. If you're going to select a small forward to build around, it better be LeBron James or Kevin Durant. Williams isn't going to get that far (hope he proves me wrong, but he won't).

 

Dan Gilbert needs to be patient, though. Irving could take a little longer than CP3 and D-Will did. A PG's transition seems to be the most difficult. That jump from college to the pros is huge for most of them. He has to accept the rebuilding stage, stop worrying about winning a title before LeBron, and put the necessary pieces around Irving for a playoff team, then worry about contention and keeping Irving happy.

The thing that worries me is his turnovers, I think that's going to be a major problem for him early in the season (like John Wall).

 

Rubio isn't that ball dominant and he was able to work with other point guards in the past and quite successfully. Can't say the same thing about Irving but potentially it could work out.

While Rubio did put up decent numbers in an offense where he didn't fit in, do you really want him to feel uncomfortable as a potential franchise player? Everyone knows he needs the ball in his hands, he doesn't have the shot to play off the ball, it's like asking Rondo to play shooting guard. You bring Rubio in with the intention of him being your ball distributor, not to share minutes at the PG position with another elite PG prospect.

 

No one expected to go in the top 5-8 would fit in the Minnesota roster except for Enes Kanter, and I'm not sure if you would want to have two poor post defenders in your starting lineup for the next 5-10 years. Take Irving (if he's there) and call it a night.

Which is why they're fielding offers for the #2 pick. Move down in the draft and select a guy like Biyombo, or bring in a guy like Gasol via trade.

[Real Deal]

Rubio isn't that ball dominant and he was able to work with other point guards in the past and quite successfully. Can't say the same thing about Irving but potentially it could work out.

Rubio is going to have to be ball-dominant in the NBA, or else he's not going to be able to offer anything. He still can't shoot the rock, can't post anyone up, and he's far from an excellent off-the-ball player.

 

But no definite position.

It's the exact reason why the Grizzlies passed on Lamar Odom, and took Steve Francis instead.

 

Utah took Kris Humphries over Josh Smith because they wanted a legit PF. While Humphries is actually playing decent basketball now, he wasn't for a long time, and Josh Smith is by far the better player, even at the four.

 

It's not that Williams is a Michael Beasley...he's just a versatile player. Beasley needed a lot of work coming out of K-State, and he didn't know how to play a lick of defense, even in college. Williams is much different, and he's probably the most NBA-ready player in the draft.

[Dash]

While Rubio did put up decent numbers in an offense where he didn't fit in, do you really want him to feel uncomfortable as a potential franchise player? Everyone knows he needs the ball in his hands, he doesn't have the shot to play off the ball, it's like asking Rondo to play shooting guard. You bring Rubio in with the intention of him being your ball distributor, not to share minutes at the PG position with another elite PG prospect.

 

Minnesota drafted Rubio with the intention of him playing next to a point guard (Flynn), the brass felt strongly that it could work out similar to the way the Bad Boy Pistons did. Sadly Flynn never panned out with some help from Rambis but they could give it another shot with Irving except he can actually shoot the ball. The Rondo comparison is actually spot on (distributor, defender, can't shoot etc) but it sure beats the other options the Wolves have at the 2-guard (Wes can switch to the 3 and Beasley off the bench). They gotta ditch the triangle though (and maybe Rambis too but kind of too late for that now).

 

Which is why they're fielding offers for the #2 pick. Move down in the draft and select a guy like Biyombo, or bring in a guy like Gasol via trade.

 

Except the offers Minnesota has been getting for the #2 pick have been pretty awful (seriously Gortat + #13?).

 

Minnesota still has the 20th pick and there is a very good chance that Biyombo and Motiejunas are going to be available at that pick (or close enough to where they can trade up). Nikola Vucevic could drop to them too but for now I think he's slips into the lottery.

 

It's the exact reason why the Grizzlies passed on Lamar Odom, and took Steve Francis instead.

 

Utah took Kris Humphries over Josh Smith because they wanted a legit PF. While Humphries is actually playing decent basketball now, he wasn't for a long time, and Josh Smith is by far the better player, even at the four.

 

It's not that Williams is a Michael Beasley...he's just a versatile player. Beasley needed a lot of work coming out of K-State, and he didn't know how to play a lick of defense, even in college. Williams is much different, and he's probably the most NBA-ready player in the draft.

 

A few cases of tweeners have panned out but not for the most part. Maybe its just me but the more I look at Williams, the more I think he's more four than three. I'd still love for the Rockets to trade whatever pieces we have if it meant getting Williams even though I think there is a 30% he ever reaches his All-Star potential.

 

By the way I'd still take Francis (before injuries) over Odom.

[htownborn]

I think this would be good on the Cavs part.I think Irving has the potential to be an elite PG but PG isn't really that big of a need for the Cavs at the #1 overall pick. And if they take Irving #1 there's a great chance they won't get Kanter at #4 who I'm sure their looking at for that pick. As for the t'wolves I don't understand why they would take Irving if Cleveland passes on him when they just got Rubio unless they plan on trading one of the 2. Anyway it goes when Khan is drafting its always interesting to watch.

[AboveLegit]

Minnesota drafted Rubio with the intention of him playing next to a point guard (Flynn), the brass felt strongly that it could work out similar to the way the Bad Boy Pistons did. Sadly Flynn never panned out with some help from Rambis but they could give it another shot with Irving except he can actually shoot the ball. The Rondo comparison is actually spot on (distributor, defender, can't shoot etc) but it sure beats the other options the Wolves have at the 2-guard (Wes can switch to the 3 and Beasley off the bench). They gotta ditch the triangle though (and maybe Rambis too but kind of too late for that now).

Flynn and Irving are two different players, Rubio and Kyrie would not work out together.

Except the offers Minnesota has been getting for the #2 pick have been pretty awful (seriously Gortat + #13?).

Which is why you draft the player, and then shop him.

[MainEv3nt]

To be honest, i heard cavs might take kanter with the first pick, then take knight with there next pick, trade that to jazz for there pick then take irving.

 

minnesota wont take irving.

[Sun Tzu]

I could see the T'Wolves passing on Irving if the Cavs do decide to take Williams. Plus, I don't think Rubio and Irving will work...at all.

[Cleveland's Finest]

I don't care who we pick anymore....there's no player that we can't miss on like previous drafts. Williams, Irving, Kanter, Jonas, Knight...I don't care as long as we improve the team.

 

But, if we could somehow get Williams and Irving, that'd be sweet.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Cleveland's Finest

[Cavamatic]

I would take Williams IF we knew for sue we were getting Knight at 4. I don't want to leave both our picks with Williams/Kanter. I think that's the worst case scenario. We need a Guard with one of these picks. So I think we should take the best TALENT in the draft with Irving, and hope for Kanter at 4.