Tom Brady or Peyton Manning

[His Greatness]

If you are talking about passing statistics, no [expletive]!

 

I already showed you the WR's he had.

 

Ton Brady's complete body of work is greater than Peyton Manning's body of work.

Stats are gospel and an accurate measurement of each player! Look at what Brady did with receivers! Imagine what he could've done with Manning's receivers! Take nothing else into account!

 

This is going nowhere.

[EastCoastNiner]

Stats are gospel and an accurate measurement of each player! Look at what Brady did with receivers! Imagine what he could've done with Manning's receivers! Take nothing else into account!

 

This is going nowhere.

 

I take his two Super Bowl MVPs' one regular season MVP, and three Super Bowl rings into account as well.

[His Greatness]

I take his two Super Bowl MVPs' one regular season MVP, and three Super Bowl rings into account as well.

The discussion is the better player, not the better team each season.

[EastCoastNiner]

The discussion is the better player, not the better team each season.

 

Whether you want to admit it or not, when there are two players that are of the same caliber, rings do matter.

 

 

Tom Brady is just flat out a better QB.

[His Greatness]

Whether you want to admit it or not, when there are two players that are of the same caliber, rings do matter.

 

 

Tom Brady is just flat out a better QB.

And believe it or not, when you're comparing players, it goes beyond analyzing numbers and pointing out achievements in a cut-and-dry fashion. When comparing players, for me, it's imperative to actually compare them based on what they can do, and what one does better than the other.

 

Tom Brady is the more clutch quarterback. He's got the best pocket presence in the NFL. Peyton Manning is better at everything else.

 

I expect a short response telling me to "GTFO", complete with rehashing Brady's one record-breaking season, again.

[fish7718]

lol if your going to compare the WR's why don't you compare the o-linemen as well pal (You said manning blaming his O-line lol its the same as Brady complaining about WR's bud) Manning is better

[EastCoastNiner]

lol if your going to compare the WR's why don't you compare the o-linemen as well pal (You said manning blaming his O-line lol its the same as Brady complaining about WR's bud) Manning is better

 

Tom Brady has NEVER made an excuse about the players on his team, where Peyton Manning has.

 

You don't know what you are talking about

 

 

It's pointless to argue with you Mason because you say things like "Peyton Manning made Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne", and "It's his defense's fault when they lose".

 

 

Tom Brady is a better pass, and more clutch.

 

Maybe you should watch them play.

 

 

Oh, and I'm sure it doesn't help playing in a dome half the [expletive]ing season. .

[The Great iBoldin]

Tom Brady has NEVER made an excuse about the players on his team, where Peyton Manning has.

 

You don't know what you are talking about

 

 

It's pointless to argue with you Mason because you say things like "Peyton Manning made Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne", and "It's his defense's fault when they lose".

 

 

Tom Brady is a better pass, and more clutch.

 

Maybe you should watch them play.

 

 

Oh, and I'm sure it doesn't help playing in a dome half the [expletive]ing season. .

 

Your giving Tom brownie points because Peyton got drafted to a team that plays in a domed stadium? Fine, Brady's had the better coach, and I'm sure it doesn't help playing under the best defensive coach .

 

I've watched both Brady and Manning play since they entered the NFL and played their first game. Manning's thrown almost 2300 passes, yet maintains the better Y/A, Completion %, and YPG throughout his entire career. Throwing 2300 more passes usually means a lesser number in those departments.

 

Manning is more accurate, and better at short and intermediate routes, while I'll give Tom the deep ball.

 

And Reggie Wayne is not an elite receiver, he's never even been a top ten receiver. Joseph Addai has been god-awful, besides his rookie season. Dallas Clark is a decent, yet not elite, receiving tight end. Harrison was elite until two years ago.

 

I still don't know why there needs to be a discussion about this, there the the same talent, they have different strengths and weaknesses. It's not a worthwhile discussion because no one's right. It's apples and oranges. 1A and 1B. Whatever.

[EastCoastNiner]

I'm not giving Tom Brady brownie points because he doesn't play in a dome, but there's no doubt that playing in Foxboro Stadium half of the season is a lot tougher than playing half of your season in a dome with no wind and other factors.

 

You have to be blind to deny that, and I'm not saying that you're denying it, but it's the truth.

[His Greatness]

It's pointless to argue with you Mason because you say things like "Peyton Manning made Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne", and "It's his defense's fault when they lose".

I've never said either. I said Harrison and Wayne are top-notch receivers that, while they have been weapons for Peyton, they don't make him any less of a quarterback. In fact, the longevity and consistency of his connection with his receivers should be getting lauded.

 

It's not always on the defense, but let's just say that if Manning had as balanced a team as Brady his whole career, he would have multiple rings, no doubt in my mind.

[DWhiTex34]

Brady.

 

& Not to mention Brady's RB was Antowain Smith (Who?) and Peyton's was Edgerrin James. I'm sure that helps a passing game. Just saying.

 

Brady's never consistently had a great RB like Manning. Corey Dillon for 1 year was great.

[OSUBucksfan09]

When did superbowl MVP Deion Branch become a horrible wr?

Anyway Manning is the better QB and I hate the colts. Rings should never be how you compare players or else Dan Marino was a worse QB than Trent Dilfer. I mean come on that is just ridiculous ECN. Give Peyton a defense and he would easily have a couple rings instead of just one. The year the colts one it all, the defense stepped up for once and picked off Mr. Clutch Brady to beat them. Before that the colts defense just got shredded every year when they got to the playoffs making Manning and co in horrible situtations. Manning is a better passer and the deep ball in my opinion is debatable. The problem is Manning doesn't throw it that often because as good as his wrs are there isn't a moss who can run past defenses and catch just about anything regardless of the coverage.

[EastCoastNiner]

When did superbowl MVP Deion Branch become a horrible wr?

Anyway Manning is the better QB and I hate the colts. Rings should never be how you compare players or else Dan Marino was a worse QB than Trent Dilfer. I mean come on that is just ridiculous ECN. Give Peyton a defense and he would easily have a couple rings instead of just one. The year the colts one it all, the defense stepped up for once and picked off Mr. Clutch Brady to beat them. Before that the colts defense just got shredded every year when they got to the playoffs making Manning and co in horrible situtations. Manning is a better passer and the deep ball in my opinion is debatable. The problem is Manning doesn't throw it that often because as good as his wrs are there isn't a moss who can run past defenses and catch just about anything regardless of the coverage.

 

- Deion Branch is not the same caliber WR that Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne are/were.

 

- You can't be that stupid with the whole rings argument because it is used to compare players with SIMILAR caliber.

 

- I guarantee you would mention Michael Jordan's rings when calling about him.

 

- The Colts defense was not bad, so please go look up the stats.

[His Greatness]

- The Colts defense was not bad, so please go look up the stats.

For most of Manning's career, they were average to below average.

[OSUBucksfan09]

Stats in the season tell one story, how bad they are in the playoffs tell another ECN. And no actually if I was talking about Jordan being the best I wouldn't use that as my main argument. And no it is not used at all and it should not be. A RING is a team effort and how good the TEAM is, the TEAM, not the individual QB. Peyton's defense consistently failed him in the playoffs as did his wrs(See game vs patriots in the snow where it seemed like every ball was dropped by his wrs.) And ECN if you are even trying to say the Colts defense was anything like the Patriots defense then you are crazy becaue the Patriots defense was easily better. And no Deion isn't the same as Harrison but to say Brady had no wrs when one won a superbowl MVP is stupid. Branch is still a good WR, just not a HOFER like I believe Harrison will be.

[EastCoastNiner]

Don't blame the Colt's defense for Peyton Manings playoff failures.

 

Here are Peyton Manning's numbers for his playoff losses:

 

2000: MIA 23, IND 17

 

17/34, 194 yds, 53.1% passing, 1 TD, 0 sacks, 82.0 rating.

 

2001: Missed the playoffs.

 

 

2002: NYJ 41, IND 0

 

14/31, 147 yds, 45.2% passing, 0 TD, 2 INT, 1 sack, 31.2 rating.

 

 

2003: NE 24, IND 14

 

23/47, 237 yds, 48.9% passing, 1 TD, 4 INT, 4 sacks, 35.5 rating.

 

 

2004: NE 20, IND 3

 

27/42, 238 yds, 64.3% passing, 0 TD, 1 INT, 1 sack, 69.3 rating.

 

 

2005: PIT 21, IND 18

 

22/38, 290 yds, 57.9% passing, 1 TD, 0 INT, 5 sacks, 90.9 rating.

 

 

2006: Won the Super Bowl because the New England Patriots gave the Colts the AFC Championship game, yet Peyton Manning still sucked dick during the playoffs, and got an undeserving "Super Bowl MVP" award.

 

 

2007: SD 28, IND 24

 

33/48, 402 yds, 66.8% passing, 3 TD, 2 IN, 0 sacks, 97.7 rating.

 

2008: SD 23, IND 17

 

25/42, 310 yds, 59.5% passing, 1 TD, 0 INT, 1 sack, 90.4 rating.

 

 

 

Hmmmmm, I'm having a hard time understand how it's the Colts defense's fault for Peyton Manning and the Colts offense putting up 17, 0, 14, 3, 18, 24, and 17 points in all of Peyton Manning's playoff losses.

 

 

They scored 20 points ONE TIME in the playoff games Peyton Manning lost.

 

 

I'm focusing on the losses because you guys seem to believe that it's the Colts defense fault for Peyton Manning putting poor number, except that last few seasons.

 

 

Now, go ahead and look at Tom Brady's numbers in his playoff losses, and his numbers are not bad.

 

 

I can't wait for Mason to try and tell me that it was the defense's fault for not scoring any points in the blowout where the defense also sucked, and every other game where Peyton Manning didn't show up.

[EastCoastNiner]

It's not always on the defense, but let's just say that if Manning had as balanced a team as Brady his whole career, he would have multiple rings, no doubt in my mind.

 

For most of Manning's career, they were average to below average.

 

 

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how it was Peyton Mannings defense that let him down in his playoff losses.

[His Greatness]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how it was Peyton Mannings defense that let him down in his playoff losses.

This is exactly why you fall short in every debate you participate in: you take raw statistics as gospel, you never delve deeper into the topics, and apparently, you have selective reading.

 

Tom Brady has been the better playoff performer than Peyton Manning. There is absolutely no denying that, and I believe I've already said it earlier in the thread. My point is that Brady has always had more support from his team and has always been put in a much better position to succeed... and that's an indisputable fact.

 

When you're deep in the playoffs matching up against the elite teams of the league, generally, the better team will win out regardless of your personal ability and talent, and it will be at the expense of the running back, the defense, the QB, or whoever. That said, he has had a hand in his playoff losses—that's almost a given when you're the star quarterback of your team—but you're very off-base in your suggestion that he was the sole (or main) reasons for it.

 

Didn't see this post, but I'll do my best to tackle it now.

 

Don't blame the Colt's defense for Peyton Manings playoff failures.

 

Here are Peyton Manning's numbers for his playoff losses:

 

2000: MIA 23, IND 17

 

17/34, 194 yds, 53.1% passing, 1 TD, 0 sacks, 82.0 rating.

 

2002: NYJ 41, IND 0

 

14/31, 147 yds, 45.2% passing, 0 TD, 2 INT, 1 sack, 31.2 rating.

 

 

2003: NE 24, IND 14

 

23/47, 237 yds, 48.9% passing, 1 TD, 4 INT, 4 sacks, 35.5 rating.

 

 

2004: NE 20, IND 3

 

27/42, 238 yds, 64.3% passing, 0 TD, 1 INT, 1 sack, 69.3 rating.

Indefensible. One, because I only recall two of these games, and two, because he was just overwhelmed by the better team. There is no viable excuse for this. Manning (and the Colts) just lost to the better team.

 

 

2005: PIT 21, IND 18

 

22/38, 290 yds, 57.9% passing, 1 TD, 0 INT, 5 sacks, 90.9 rating.

Manning leads his offense to 15 points late in the 4th quarter, and puts his team in prime position to tie the game with what should be a cakewalk for the "most accurate kicker in NFL history". 46 yards. Wide right. It's all Peyton's fault.

 

2006: Won the Super Bowl because the New England Patriots gave the Colts the AFC Championship game, yet Peyton Manning still sucked dick during the playoffs, and got an undeserving "Super Bowl MVP" award.

Apparently, overcoming the biggest deficit in conference championship history and taking over the game in the clutch is considered "sucking dick" nowadays. And likewise, so is controlling the Super Bowl and doing what's needed to win. News to me. Gee Jeff, if those are the new terms for sucking dick, then I guess your mother can't be considered a hooker anymore, can she?

 

2007: SD 28, IND 24

 

33/48, 402 yds, 66.8% passing, 3 TD, 2 IN, 0 sacks, 97.7 rating.

Oh yes. Manning was the one that fumbled the ball deep in opponent territory. Manning was dropping his passes on crucial possessions. Manning was bobbling his own passes into the other team's hands.

 

All of that happened.

 

2008: SD 23, IND 17

 

25/42, 310 yds, 59.5% passing, 1 TD, 0 INT, 1 sack, 90.4 rating.

Come on, Manning did everything he could to win that game, and even you could attest to that. He played exceptionally well despite Scifres' domination, and I'm certain he would've won the game if he called the coin toss right.

 

It's funny how you're quick to magnify Manning's performances in playoff losses (because all superstar QBs are expected to put up gaudy numbers when they're losing), but there is never any emphasis put on his superb outings, his performances in wins, and all of his postseason records. Keep the drivel coming.

Edited July 13, 2009 by His Greatness

[EastCoastNiner]

This is exactly why you fall short in every debate you participate in: you take raw statistics as gospel, you never delve deeper into the topics, and apparently, you have selective reading.

 

Tom Brady has been the better playoff performer than Peyton Manning. There is absolutely no denying that, and I believe I've already said it earlier in the thread. My point is that Brady has always had more support from his team and has always been put in a much better position to succeed... and that's an indisputable fact.

 

When you're deep in the playoffs matching up against the elite teams of the league, generally, the better team will win out regardless of your personal ability and talent, and it will be at the expense of the running back, the defense, the QB, or whoever. That said, he has had a hand in his playoff losses—that's almost a given when you're the star quarterback of your team—but you're very off-base in your suggestion that he was the sole (or main) reasons for it.

 

Didn't see this post, but I'll do my best to tackle it now.

 

 

Indefensible. One, because I only recall two of these games, and two, because he was just overwhelmed by the better team. There is no viable excuse for this. Manning (and the Colts) just lost to the better team.

 

 

 

Manning leads his offense to 15 points late in the 4th quarter, and puts his team in prime position to tie the game with what should be a cakewalk for the "most accurate kicker in NFL history". 46 yards. Wide right. It's all Peyton's fault.

 

 

Apparently, overcoming the biggest deficit in conference championship history and taking over the game in the clutch is considered "sucking dick" nowadays. And likewise, so is controlling the Super Bowl and doing what's needed to win. News to me. Gee Jeff, if those are the new terms for sucking dick, then I guess your mother can't be considered a hooker anymore, can she?

 

 

Oh yes. Manning was the one that fumbled the ball deep in opponent territory. Manning was dropping his passes on crucial possessions. Manning was bobbling his own passes into the other team's hands.

 

All of that happened.

 

 

Come on, Manning did everything he could to win that game, and even you could attest to that. He played exceptionally well despite Scifres' domination, and I'm certain he would've won the game if he called the coin toss right.

 

It's funny how you're quick to magnify Manning's performances in playoff losses (because all superstar QBs are expected to put up gaudy numbers when they're losing), but there is never any emphasis put on his superb outings, his performances in wins, and all of his postseason records. Keep the drivel coming.

 

I think you are taking my post the wrong way.

 

I focused on the losses because people are saying that his defense let him down, when if fact Peyton Manning and the offense only scored 20+ points once in the seven playoff losses he has suffered.

 

Also, when you are telling me that I should know better, and that I magnify his playoff losses, you are taking it the wrong way.

 

I'm not saying all of those games where his fault.

 

I was showing every single playoff loss, even the ones where he performed well just to show that it wasn't necessarily the Colts defense letting the team down.

[His Greatness]

And I've never implied that it was the defense letting the team down through all those losses.

[fish7718]

Tom Brady has NEVER made an excuse about the players on his team, where Peyton Manning has.

 

You don't know what you are talking about

 

 

It's pointless to argue with you Mason because you say things like "Peyton Manning made Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne", and "It's his defense's fault when they lose".

 

 

Tom Brady is a better pass, and more clutch.

 

Maybe you should watch them play.

 

 

Oh, and I'm sure it doesn't help playing in a dome half the [expletive]ing season. .

This is obvious fan bias, now your saying that because Manning complained about his team Brady is more clutch. No one is more accurate than Peyton Manning. This topic isn't even a dicussion Tom Brady is coming of injury you can't expect him to come back performing like he was when he was in his prime. Especially considering he's 32 years old.

[EastCoastNiner]

And I've never implied that it was the defense letting the team down through all those losses.

 

You've said that multiple times, maybe not in this thread, but you have always compared his defense to the New Englan Ptriots defense in order to show that part of the reason Tom Brady has been good is because of the defense, which I understand, but at the same time people like to make excuses for Peyton Manning.

 

 

What is going to affect a QB's personnel performance more?

 

1. Having average WR's for his entire career and a good defense.

 

2. Having the best offensive talent in the league(Yes, the QB is a large part of that) and having a solid defense.

Edited July 13, 2009 by EastCoastNiner

[EastCoastNiner]

This is obvious fan bias, now your saying that because Manning complained about his team Brady is more clutch. No one is more accurate than Peyton Manning. This topic isn't even a dicussion Tom Brady is coming of injury you can't expect him to come back performing like he was when he was in his prime. Especially considering he's 32 years old.

 

The New England Patriots are going to be better this season, than two seasons ago, so stop talking.

[Carmelamare]

Brady, sadly.

[His Greatness]

You've said that multiple times, maybe not in this thread, but you have always compared his defense to the New Englan Ptriots defense in order to show that part of the reason Tom Brady has been good is because of the defense, which I understand, but at the same time people like to make excuses for Peyton Manning.

I've compared them because they're very relevant if you're going to fiddle with team success.

 

Part of the reason Brady has been so successful is because of his defense. Irrefutable.

 

 

What is going to affect a QB's personnel performance more?

 

1. Having average WR's for his entire career and a good defense.

 

2. Having the best offensive talent in the league(Yes, the QB is a large part of that) and having a solid defense.

The better offensive talent obviously, but I guarantee you that every quarterback (QBs that want to win at least) prefers the more well-rounded team.