Howard or Paul: Who Would you Prefer on the Knicks?

[Built Ford Tough]

It is widely known that the Knicks want to add a 3rd member to their dynamic duo of Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony and the two most promminent names are Dwight Howard and Chris Paul with Deron Williams receiving some talk as well.

 

If both of them wanted to sign in New York but you could only afford one of them, which one would it be and why?

 

Paul has injury concerns but in the past he has proven to be arguably a top 3 or 4 player and has had a couple of the greatest statistical seasons from a point guard in NBA history. Him and Amare on the pick and roll would absolutely terrorize opposing teams as we all saw how effective he was at running it with Tyson Chandler who isn't nearly as good of an offensive player as Stoudemire is. He has proven chemistry with Melo in the past as well and I don't think there are any questions that he would fit in with the team very well.

 

On the other hand, Dwight Howard would give the Knicks the best defensive anchor in the league and give them a big man duo that hasn't been seen since the likes of Tim Duncan and David Robinson. There could be concerns about how him and Amare would be able to co-exist beside each other and there would definitely be some chemistry issues and a huge adjustment process as opposed to adding a player like Paul. However, he doesn't have nearly the same amount of injury concerns as Paul does and you can definitely make the case that a healthy Howard is better than a healthy Paul anyways.

 

So who would you choose and why?

[Nitro]

It really depends on if they plan on keeping D'Antoni, and what direction they want to take the team. With D'Antoni, Paul is the obvious choice; he'd fit in perfectly on the offensive side with Melo/Amare and D'Antoni's offensive schemes. He also provides toughness and the kind of leadership qualities that could really propel them to a championship. Howard immediately gives you the opportunity to be a top defensive team in the league, and him and Amare down low with Melo locking down the perimeter, they'd have the chance to be really dominant. However, the chemistry wouldn't be as strong unless each player makes sacrifices...all 3 would need to cut down on iso situations and keep the offense moving, with each assuming more responsibility in areas that may not necessarily maximize their skills.

 

Overall, Paul makes more sense.

[Real Deal]

I'd say Howard for the simple fact that he's the true MVP of the league, and the Knicks are incredibly poor on the defensive end.

 

While CP3 can defend, Howard fixes their defensive lapses at any position because he's an anchor. Amare and Melo could use all the help they can get, and Paul isn't going to do that for them.

 

I can't say I'd be worried about scoring distribution. Howard probably wouldn't care in an environment like that, especially coming from Orlando and what he has had to deal with. He seems like a guy that just wants to win, and do so by rebounding and swatting everyone in his path.

 

Boston had us thinking they couldn't share the ball, but they did. Age mattered? Well, Miami went to the Finals, and we questioned them as well.

 

Plus, a center like Howard is far, far tougher to find than a PG like CP3. The Knicks would have all bases covered by finding a pure point (and there are a few, not all of them are superstars or make that kind of money), be a top-ranked offense and a top five defense, all by getting Howard and filling gaps in trades, free agency, or MLE's over the next 1-3 years.

[fish7718]

I feel Dwight Howard makes more sense. Dwight would make us a top 10 defensive team just by being here. I feel like anyone can run PG in D'antoni's offense, Chris Duhon had people fooled here thinking he was good when he was doing it. I feel we are a much better team with Dwight's rebounding/defense and maybe Iman Shumpert or another solid PG.

[Nitro]

Boston had us thinking they couldn't share the ball, but they did. Age mattered? Well, Miami went to the Finals, and we questioned them as well.

 

All of the Big 3 on the Celtics were exceptional passers for their positions and meshed perfectly in terms of chemistry, and the Heat have arguably the 2 best players in the league who do EVERYTHING on the court, with Bosh being an exceptional mid-range shooter to play off the attention Bron/Wade get. Melo is an exceptional iso scorer but not a great playmaker, Dwight still has trouble passing out of the post, and Amare also isn't a great passer. Offensively, I see this being a big issue with that trio, and even with Dwight immediately making them a great defensive team by his presence alone, I don't think they'd be the best defensive team in the league without the right coach and other supporting talent.

 

I agree you can find a great playmaking PG easier than you can find a guy like Dwight, but Paul would just be so perfect alongside Melo/Amare. He can control the tempo of the game amazingly well, be a go-to scorer as well as spot-up shooter (at insane efficiency), and also rebound and defend extremely well for his position. He'd allow Melo and Amare to do what they do best while it being in the best interest of the team. If Melo and Amare pair with Dwight, I'd think they'd be taken out of their comfort zone to a greater degree. Give the Melo/Paul/Amare trio a good spot-up 3pt shooter at SG and a good rebounding big, along with some solid bench pieces, and that team is scary.

[NomarFachix]

I'll take either. I'll take both.

 

I think Paul makes more sense for the club as designed, grab a guy like Dalembert at center and roll.

[?QuestionMark?]

Howard without question.

 

Championships are built inside out. Get a guy like Howard and now they have a legit anchor to make up for Amare and Melo's defensive lapses. I don't know a championship team that has won without a defensive stud as a big man. But I have seen teams win with mediocre PGs: Fisher, Harper, Johnson, Williams, Smith, etc.

 

Plus, a two-way center is the most rare commodity in the NBA. If you're one of the few lucky teams that can get one, you do it.

[Real Deal]

All of the Big 3 on the Celtics were exceptional passers for their positions and meshed perfectly in terms of chemistry, and the Heat have arguably the 2 best players in the league who do EVERYTHING on the court, with Bosh being an exceptional mid-range shooter to play off the attention Bron/Wade get. Melo is an exceptional iso scorer but not a great playmaker, Dwight still has trouble passing out of the post, and Amare also isn't a great passer. Offensively, I see this being a big issue with that trio, and even with Dwight immediately making them a great defensive team by his presence alone, I don't think they'd be the best defensive team in the league without the right coach and other supporting talent.

Miami also had two players that do the same exact thing on the court, in the same exact way. At least the Knicks would have three different all-stars/superstars that cover every spot on offense, from at the rim in a post position, to mid-range, to 23 feet out. Why would that be so significant? No team would be able to double Howard down low AND double Melo...and that means most teams are toast because Howard is the best efficient scorer in the NBA, while Melo is one of the best overall scorers.

 

Nobody is asking them to be the best defensive team in the league, but top five would not be a stretch, considering what Howard has done with arguably the worst defensive supporting cast we've seen in years, and that's pretty significant for the Knicks.

 

I'd rather have a team that defends top five, and has a few hiccups on offense (like the contending Celtics), than one that is the highest scoring team in the NBA that doesn't defend well at all (like the old Suns and Kings).

 

Give the Melo/Paul/Amare trio a good spot-up 3pt shooter at SG and a good rebounding big, along with some solid bench pieces, and that team is scary.

And if you don't give them those pieces, they are a playoff exit when they run into the Heat or the emerging Bulls.

 

Basically, you're asking the Knicks to pull off a deal that gets them CP3 (trade or signing), then bring in a spot-up three (which means a guy that can't play defense, unless they are willing to spend money), and a good rebounding big (which you can't find unless you're spending the MLE or more, because bigs that can actually stay in the game and contribute are hard to find), AND solid bench pieces...

 

Best player available, less injury-prone (who knows how much longer CP3 will hold up with his knee issues), best efficient scorer in the NBA, and by miles, the best defensive player in the league and possibly in the last decade...there's no way I'd take CP3 over Howard, no matter who was on this team.

[Nitro]

Miami also had two players that do the same exact thing on the court, in the same exact way. At least the Knicks would have three different all-stars/superstars that cover every spot on offense, from at the rim in a post position, to mid-range, to 23 feet out. Why would that be so significant? No team would be able to double Howard down low AND double Melo...and that means most teams are toast because Howard is the best efficient scorer in the NBA, while Melo is one of the best overall scorers.

 

Miami worked so well because of how versatile Wade and LeBron are. Both can drop 40-50 at any time, both can run an offense and dish 10 assists, both can dominate defensively, and both are very good rebounders at their positions. That negated their overlaps in style, for the most part. The issue with the Melo/Amare/Howard combo offensively is that none of them are great playmakers. Melo is the best of the bunch, but the ball can stick in his hands and he has a very quick trigger with his shot (along with just not having the best instincts as a playmaker). Amare often times forces the issue too much offensively and won't pass when he runs into a lane full of defenders, and Howard still hasn't learned how to effectively pass out of the post (which, on the Magic, would give him a bunch of assists if he could). To me, that could be a mess offensively, and without the right defensive coach they won't be so dominant defensively that it would negate their offensive issues en route to a championship.

 

Basically, you're asking the Knicks to pull off a deal that gets them CP3 (trade or signing), then bring in a spot-up three (which means a guy that can't play defense, unless they are willing to spend money), and a good rebounding big (which you can't find unless you're spending the MLE or more, because bigs that can actually stay in the game and contribute are hard to find), AND solid bench pieces...

 

Both Big 3's would need the right pieces around them. The Howard/Amare/Melo combo would need a player with very good PG instincts, a 3pt shooter/perimeter defender, and some bench pieces as well. I just think that the CP3/Melo/Amare combo would allow each player to do what they do best with little compromise, and would be easier to build around because of that. With Howard, each player would need to tweak their games a lot more, and I don't think Melo and Amare are versatile enough to handle that well.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Nitro

[Real Deal]

Having an offensive-minded coach for a team that has Dwight Howard would make more sense. Why would they want a defensive coach, exactly? Howard anchors the defense, and everyone else has the basketball IQ to fall into place with that. It's the easiest way to play defense in basketball...lead your man into help. That's why it works in Orlando, even with no defensive players. SVG isn't a defensive guru, and doesn't have to be.

 

Case in point: see the 2007 Magic squad, when Howard started defending at a very high level (the year he really broke out as a help defender). The Magic shot up to 6th defensively, and they were being coached by Brian Hill. Sure, they won 40 games, but that's because they couldn't score.

 

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Your biggest gripe is ball distribution. All they have to do is go find a point guard, and they are set. That won't be tough, because a ton of free agents will want to play in New York, not just because of the city, but also because the Knicks will be contenders and will have two of the best players in the league, and a top five PF as well.

 

By the way, I don't think Howard is as bad as you say he is, passing out of the post. All teams play the Magic the same exact way, and the Magic play all teams the same way...nothing ever changes. Teams will swarm Howard, and Howard kicks it out to a shooter. Predictable, and when that's the case, it's very easy to force a turnover, and there's no better person to force turnovers from than the opponent's big man.

 

Let a team double Howard in NY, see how that works out for them. If they don't stick a second man on him before the catch in the paint, they are toast because only 1-2 players can keep Howard out of the paint and away from the rim all by themselves, and one rarely plays to begin with (Oden) and the other retired (Shaq) and was getting to be far too slow to get it done.

 

Finally, I'm not stating that CP3 wouldn't work there...I just think it's best to take the better player, the most durable, the bigger difference-maker, and ultimately (and most importantly), the one guy that fills all of your defensive holes and doesn't need the ball every play to be effective. That's Howard.

[JYD]

Howard for sure IMO and here's why: The two biggest problems for NYK are rebounding and interior defense...they solve both by getting the best player in the league at both

[Nitro]

Having an offensive-minded coach for a team that has Dwight Howard would make more sense. Why would they want a defensive coach, exactly? Howard anchors the defense, and everyone else has the basketball IQ to fall into place with that. It's the easiest way to play defense in basketball...lead your man into help. That's why it works in Orlando, even with no defensive players. SVG isn't a defensive guru, and doesn't have to be.

 

Case in point: see the 2007 Magic squad, when Howard started defending at a very high level (the year he really broke out as a help defender). The Magic shot up to 6th defensively, and they were being coached by Brian Hill. Sure, they won 40 games, but that's because they couldn't score.

 

I disagree about the SVG thing...he's a disciple of Riley and had the Heat as a top 10 defense each of the 2 years he was with the team. I don't think he's as savvy defensively as his brother, but he's definitely no slouch there.

 

And if you are going to have Dwight and want to build around him, I think you build your team to be a juggernaut on that side of the ball. Get an up-tempo coach who preaches exclusively offense and I think you take away from some of Howard's strengths (defense/ offensive rebounding), and I still don't think they'd be the top offense in the league. A great defensive coach who gets them to lock down their opponents, while getting by mostly on sheer talent offensively I think would be the stronger option.

 

Your biggest gripe is ball distribution. All they have to do is go find a point guard, and they are set.

 

Finding a player with very good PG skills who can also knock down the 3 isn't that easy, and since Melo/Amare/Dwight aren't great playmakers, with each being heavy on iso's, I don't know if it'd work out as well as many assume it would. Simply getting a PG to walk down the court and drop it off to one of those 3 for an iso just isn't good enough, not with this group.

[Real Deal]

Well, if it came down to it, why would the Knicks keep D'Antoni to begin with? If it meant getting Howard and finding the right coach for whatever system (offensive AND defensive) they want in place, so be it. D'Antoni is not Phil or Pop.

 

And the PG doesn't necessarily have to be able to shoot the ball. There are shooters everywhere in the league...the Knicks can find one for cheap. They can seek someone like James Jones. Grab a PG that is a true point, and that's that. Rondo is a horrible shooter, but that's all gravy because guys like Ray Allen and Paul Pierce are knocking down shots, just as James Jones and Carmelo Anthony would (not to compare Jones to Ray, but both are extremely good three-point shooters).

[Nitro]

And the PG doesn't necessarily have to be able to shoot the ball. There are shooters everywhere in the league...the Knicks can find one for cheap. They can seek someone like James Jones. Grab a PG that is a true point, and that's that. Rondo is a horrible shooter, but that's all gravy because guys like Ray Allen and Paul Pierce are knocking down shots, just as James Jones and Carmelo Anthony would (not to compare Jones to Ray, but both are extremely good three-point shooters).

 

Melo is a career 32% 3pt shooter, and usually between 35-37% with less than 3 attempts per game. I think last season with the Knicks was a bit of an abberation when it came to his 3pt shooting, and he's not really a spot-up shooter. They won't find a SG that's as good as Allen, Melo is not the 3pt shooter Pierce is, and that Celtics team would likely be better passers at every position (except maybe C) than that Knicks team would be. In other words, I don't think the Celtics are comparable, and the Knicks will need a PG that can shoot the ball IMO.

[Real Deal]

Melo is a career 32% 3pt shooter, and usually between 35-37% with less than 3 attempts per game. I think last season with the Knicks was a bit of an abberation when it came to his 3pt shooting, and he's not really a spot-up shooter. They won't find a SG that's as good as Allen, Melo is not the 3pt shooter Pierce is, and that Celtics team would likely be better passers at every position (except maybe C) than that Knicks team would be. In other words, I don't think the Celtics are comparable, and the Knicks will need a PG that can shoot the ball IMO.

I compared Melo to Pierce, not Ray Ray. That's why I said the Knicks could seek someone like James Jones (one of the better three-point shooters in the NBA), who is also a cheap solution at the two-guard spot (and can play the three as well).

[Nitro]

I compared Melo to Pierce, not Ray Ray. That's why I said the Knicks could seek someone like James Jones (one of the better three-point shooters in the NBA), who is also a cheap solution at the two-guard spot (and can play the three as well).

 

I know you compared Melo to Pierce, just as I did, read the post again. I said they won't find a 3pt shooter to play SG that's as good as Ray is in that area, and Melo is not the 3pt shooter Pierce is either. They won't find a playmaker like Rondo at PG, Melo also isn't the passer Pierce is, there's a strong chance that whatever 3pt specialist they find as a SG won't be as well-rounded as Ray, and Amare isn't a quarter of the passer KG is. Basically what I am getting at is the Celtic comparison just isn't valid...that team is so extremely well balanced and versatile offensively, which is why they are so disgustingly efficient on that side of the ball. Therefor, I think it will be a lot more important for that Knick team to have a 3pt shooter at both backcourt positions, as opposed to throwing a guy like Rondo out there at PG.

[Real Deal]

Well, of course, the Knicks aren't going to compare to the Celtics if we're going THAT far (matching player to player). I'm saying that, if they want to be a serious contender, they don't need to add a three-point shooting PG, and James Jones would do the trick at the two-guard position if they have a true PG, Howard, Melo and Amare.

 

If that's not good enough to put this Knicks team in the NBA Finals, Howard, Melo and Amare are pathetic players. Dwight would most likely defer on the offensive end, a pass-first point would distribute, and Jones would be standing at the three, ala Fisher (and that's all he EVER did in Miami), and that team would find their way in the ECF's, guaranteed.

 

Maybe the Heat would give them a run for their money, but it's going seven, especially since Howard would be more difficult to contain than LeBron.

[Nitro]

Well, of course, the Knicks aren't going to compare to the Celtics if we're going THAT far (matching player to player). I'm saying that, if they want to be a serious contender, they don't need to add a three-point shooting PG, and James Jones would do the trick at the two-guard position if they have a true PG, Howard, Melo and Amare.

 

If that's not good enough to put this Knicks team in the NBA Finals, Howard, Melo and Amare are pathetic players. Dwight would most likely defer on the offensive end, a pass-first point would distribute, and Jones would be standing at the three, ala Fisher (and that's all he EVER did in Miami), and that team would find their way in the ECF's, guaranteed.

 

Maybe the Heat would give them a run for their money, but it's going seven, especially since Howard would be more difficult to contain than LeBron.

 

To each his own I suppose. I just think that when your 3 top offensive threats are iso players who do the majority of their damage inside 15ft and none of which are great passers (which is key), that creates problems offensively in terms of spacing and flow. A good passing PG won't alleviate these problems as I saw what Arroyo did for the Heat last season...they become useless as they take the ball to the 3pt line and then hand it off to a player looking for the iso. If that PG can't shoot the 3 (like Arroyo couldn't), it makes for a 4-on-5 offense. And even with Dwight, I don't know if they'd have a better defense than the Heat, or a better offense.

[Real Deal]

So if the three ISO players are the problem, what makes CP3 a better choice if Melo and Amare are both going to take the ball out of his hands? Isn't that what teams would want? I'd much rather have to take Melo in an ISO (and even Amare) over CP3 running P&R's all the time?

 

That stuff worked in Phoenix up until they ran into teams that could play offense AND defense, and I don't see why it wouldn't be the same situation in New York. Ironically, D'Antoni would be coaching them.

 

If Nash, Amare and Marion didn't work out, despite the team having pretty damn good defenders in Marion and Bell (and they even had Joe Johnson, at one point), I don't see how the trio of Melo, CP3 and Amare would win a championship when they have no defensive anchor, Amare is a total wreck on the defensive end, and Melo struggled containing Luke Walton before he became Puke Walton.

 

And, additionally, Melo plays outside of 15 feet. He's not Ray Allen, but he has extended range out to 21-22 feet before he starts missing open jumpers.

 

But, again, there's no doubt in my mind that both teams would go to the ECF's...I would just rather have a team that has a defensive anchor and a true post scorer, not to mention a top two rebounder in the NBA and exceptional shot-blocker.

[420mayne]

The Knicks arn't getting any of these players. The chance of them getting Howard is about the same as it was at getting LeBron hahahahhahahaha. That said Howard is by far the better fit. You go with the guy that's 5 times better than the second best guy at his position over a point guard in this day and age. Point guards arn't as hard to find, but Hall of Fame centers in their primes? Yeah no contest.