Philadelphia Flyers 2011-12

[JYD]

Notice the day that post was written.....

Oh my bad. I was wondering why you said that lol.

[Built Ford Tough]

Too upset to watch the replay again, but thanks for nothing Lilja. Literally....nothing. I understand that he was hung out to dry on a 2-on-1, but he could not have handled that any more poorly.

 

I'd place the blame on Gus and Schenn for deciding to take an absolutely retraded change. That was the reason for the goal more than anything. Just a brutal change from those two.

[Phightins]

I'd place the blame on Gus and Schenn for deciding to take an absolutely retraded change. That was the reason for the goal more than anything. Just a brutal change from those two.

 

Plenty of blame to go around. That change was indeed brutal.

 

Again, I realize that Lilja a) is not particularly good at hockey and b) was put in an awful spot because of his teammates. Obviously a recipe for disaster, but he still could not have handled that 2-on-1 more poorly. Just terrible all the way around.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Phightins

[Phightins]

Thoroughly embarrassing. Starting to unravel.

[Sħãlïq™]

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/535457_10150856615378665_511118664_11620684_553784143_n.jpg

[Phightins]

Giroux suspended one game, and I have no idea what to make of it.

 

Suspension-worthy hit? Probably, yes. Especially given the shift leading up to it. G was visibly upset with the officials and how the game was going. Certainly made it appear that the hit on Zubrus was out of frustration. I get that. Given that, I can't argue with the suspension.

 

But considering the precedent Shanahan has set? This is super frustrating. Way worse offenses have been let go. Shanahan is definitely flipping a coin at this point.

[Phightins]

Welp, it's something new every year. You'd think a team in the playoffs every single season would get lucky just once in 38 years.

 

Maybe next time. But probably not.

[Phightins]

These JvR/Nash rumors need to be taken with a grain of salt, no matter which perspective you have. Everyone has a different extreme opinion of Howard Eskin. He is obviously an obnoxious idiot when it comes to hockey, however he has one hell of a source in the organization. Somebody very close to Holmgren. He is almost never wrong on stories like this, even if he may exaggerate sometimes. So while I don't want to believe this, I don't think it can be totally dismissed.

[Phightins]

http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/p/sp/getty/8e/fullj.1cb868c3c0bfc375feae26634812c07b/1cb868c3c0bfc375feae26634812c07b-getty-146194687.jpg

 

Won't lie, this hurts...a lot. I'm certainly happy for all three of them, but man, wayyyy too soon.

[Phightins]

Bob traded to Columbus yesterday, for three picks (including #45 today). Honestly, very happy with the haul. Seems like goalies mostly have very little trade value. Perhaps the price on Bernier was too high, so the Flyers were able to drive up Bob's price and make it still seem like a bargain. I will still miss him, though. But it was a trade that needed to happen for various reasons.

 

Drafted Scott Laughton in the first round last night. Supposedly an odd pick, but I won't pretend like I have a clue. Based on pre-draft rankings, it seems like we probably could have gotten him at 45, so 20 was a major reach. But who knows what sorts of things get factored into these picks.

[Phightins]

No clue what to think. First glance, I'd call this trade a huge win for Toronto.

[Check my Stats]

I think its a good deal for both sides. I think Schenn got a bad rap in Toronto.

[Phightins]

Yeah. I feel like it's difficult to judge this trade at all yet. Neither player has come close to their supposed "potential". I guess we'll need to give it a few years.

 

What pisses me off about the Flyers, though, is how they panic and overreact so easily. First it was the Richards/Carter situation. Then last summer, the theme was that this is going to be Giroux and JvR's team for the next 10 years. Then, one injury plagued season later, and look where we are.

[DunkinDerozan]

No clue what to think. First glance, I'd call this trade a huge win for Toronto.

 

Good deal for both teams. Leafs get the higher risk higher reward player. JVR had injury issues last year, and he's also a year older. But if he can come back improved and injury free, I think we win easily. If Schenn doesn't improve from lat season, you'll understand why I used to get so [expletive]ing frustrated with him last year. He honestly has hands of stone and is an absolute turnover machine. I broke atleast a couple things in my living room because of goals he cost us this year. But if he can go back to how he played two seasons ago, or atleast improve a bit, he should be alright. I'm [expletive]ing pumped though

[Phightins]

So based on everything you guys have told me about Schenn, he sounds very very similar to JvR in terms of not meeting the hype/frustration level. Although JvR is most definitely ready for a breakout season, IMO. (However I also thought that last season).

 

So, I am happy we traded a position of excess for a position of need, however I wish we'd have gotten a bit more. Sounds like we should have.

 

Also, with JvR gone now, wonder what this means about Jagr. Intensified effort to bring him back? I kind of hope not, but we'll see.

 

Also, the Flyers have quietly shed some cap space the past few days (around $1 million with the Bob trade, another $1 mil here). With the cap going up too, have to figure Holmgren is going to try something big. Hopefully not Nash or Ryan.

[DunkinDerozan]

So based on everything you guys have told me about Schenn, he sounds very very similar to JvR in terms of not meeting the hype/frustration level. Although JvR is most definitely ready for a breakout season, IMO. (However I also thought that last season).

 

So, I am happy we traded a position of excess for a position of need, however I wish we'd have gotten a bit more. Sounds like we should have.

 

Also, with JvR gone now, wonder what this means about Jagr. Intensified effort to bring him back? I kind of hope not, but we'll see.

 

Also, the Flyers have quietly shed some cap space the past few days (around $1 million with the Bob trade, another $1 mil here). With the cap going up too, have to figure Holmgren is going to try something big. Hopefully not Nash or Ryan.

 

Suter to Philly a possibility? Whats the latest on Pronger? Is he coming back again?

[Phightins]

Suter to Philly a possibility? Whats the latest on Pronger? Is he coming back again?

 

I am sure they'd love to have Suter, but after this trade I'm not quite sure about anything anymore. I think it's way more likely that they re-sign Matt Carle and then focus their attention/money on a forward. Some of the local writers with sources high up in the organization have said that they want to make a big push for Parise, which seems more likely now with JvR gone and with Jagr a 50/50 shot at best to come back. Plus, Carle supposedly loves it here and is wiling to take a major pay cut to stay. There is some word that they have an agreement in place and it's only a matter of time until it's announced.

 

What I don't want is a trade for Nash or Ryan. One or both of Couturier/(Brayden) Schenn would most certainly be involved, and in my opinion they need to be close to untouchable.

 

As for Pronger, I doubt he ever plays again.

[Check my Stats]

I don't think Schenn really has much untapped potential left (at least compared to JVR), I see him as a 2nd pairing shut down defenseman in an ideal world. He will never be a powerplay player ever, and will probably never get any more than 30-35 points, if that. What he is, though, is a guy who will be a rock on the blue line, and a guy who fans will love come playoff time with good solid hits, and just solid play overall when on his game. When on his game, Schenn can make the first pass out of the zone and is positionally sound. One of the biggest problems in Toronto was our jackass coach insisted on playing an up and down style, and it really exposed him, that is the exact opposite of his style. He was often caught out of position often, pinched when he normally wouldn't, and was turning it over trying to rush the puck.

 

I think the biggest thing that held Schenn back in Toronto was Ron Wilson disliked him, and we played a style opposite of what Schenn would thrive in. I think it was pretty clear his confidence was shot all year.

 

I think JVR has potential to be the better player, but I think Schenn is a guy that every team needs, especially come playoff time. He won't be an easy player to play against for the next 5-10 years in the playoffs. I like the deal for us since we have a large number of D, both on the team and in the system, but Schenn is a player that I think fans are going to miss more than they do right now. If Schenn plays the way he can, similarly to his 3rd year, fans in Philly are going to love him. He's definitely got a bit of grit in his game I think you guys will love. I am personally very curious to see how JVR handles an increased role here in Toronto. He will probably play closer to 20 minutes here, presumably on our 2nd line. Hopefully he responds well and can give us 50 points or so this year.

 

Also, not to mention, Schenn has a more favourable contract right now at 3.6M, which I think is very solid for him when he playing the way he can.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Check my Stats

[Built Ford Tough]

The problem with Schenn is the same problem that plauges every Leaf prospect. He gets drafted, gets hyped to hell immediately afterwards as the "saviour" of the franchise and what not. Once things hit a bit of a rough patch, the impatient Leaf fanbase immediately turn on him and make him into a whipping boy. Just in the past few years, it has happened to Jiri Tlusty, Alex Steen, Matt Stajan and Luke Schenn. It is also happening to Nazem Kadri.

 

Basically, the vast majority of Leaf fans are impatient idiots.

 

The fact of the matter is that Luke Schenn is a 22 year old defenseman. I repeat, 22. Of course there are going to be growing pains and mistakes. All young defenseman make them. Was he bad this past year? Yeah, for a lot of the season, he was. Was he as bad as many Leaf fans made him out to be? Not by a longshot.

 

Schenn will never be an offensive defenseman. He won't be quarterbacking a powerplay or unleashing rockets labelled top shelf. That isn't his game.

 

He is a ultra physical (has led the league in hits by a defenseman for, what, 3 years in a row?), stay at home defenseman who, when on his game, has an excellent breakout pass. He bulked up too much this past summer and it hurt his mobility, which in turn made him more susceptible to turnovers when pressured. He needs to shed a few more pounds so that he can get back some of that mobility.

 

The bottom line is that Schenn's strengths are exactly what you need if you want to compete for the Stanley Cup. He wears his heart on his sleeve, stands up for his teammates no matter what, is physically dominant and come playoff time, you need these blue collar players if you want to win.

 

Luke Schenn is never going to be Drew Doughty, but for every Drew Doughty, you need a Rob Scuderi or a Willie Mitchell to partner with him and take care of the dirty work. Schenn is that guy and Philly fans are going to absolutely love him. I know I did and, despite JvR's upside, I absolutely hated to see Schenn traded.

[DunkinDerozan]

I don't think Schenn really has much untapped potential left (at least compared to JVR), I see him as a 2nd pairing shut down defenseman in an ideal world. He will never be a powerplay player ever, and will probably never get any more than 30-35 points, if that. What he is, though, is a guy who will be a rock on the blue line, and a guy who fans will love come playoff time with good solid hits, and just solid play overall when on his game. When on his game, Schenn can make the first pass out of the zone and is positionally sound. One of the biggest problems in Toronto was our jackass coach insisted on playing an up and down style, and it really exposed him, that is the exact opposite of his style. He was often caught out of position often, pinched when he normally wouldn't, and was turning it over trying to rush the puck.

 

I think the biggest thing that held Schenn back in Toronto was Ron Wilson disliked him, and we played a style opposite of what Schenn would thrive in. I think it was pretty clear his confidence was shot all year.

 

I think JVR has potential to be the better player, but I think Schenn is a guy that every team needs, especially come playoff time. He won't be an easy player to play against for the next 5-10 years in the playoffs. I like the deal for us since we have a large number of D, both on the team and in the system, but Schenn is a player that I think fans are going to miss more than they do right now. If Schenn plays the way he can, similarly to his 3rd year, fans in Philly are going to love him. He's definitely got a bit of grit in his game I think you guys will love. I am personally very curious to see how JVR handles an increased role here in Toronto. He will probably play closer to 20 minutes here, presumably on our 2nd line. Hopefully he responds well and can give us 50 points or so this year.

 

Also, not to mention, Schenn has a more favourable contract right now at 3.6M, which I think is very solid for him when he playing the way he can.

 

Agreed for the most part. I don't see him getting to 30-35 points though. I think like 3-5 goals a year + around 15 assists is what he's going to stay at.

[DunkinDerozan]

The problem with Schenn is the same problem that plauges every Leaf prospect. He gets drafted, gets hyped to hell immediately afterwards as the "saviour" of the franchise and what not. Once things hit a bit of a rough patch, the impatient Leaf fanbase immediately turn on him and make him into a whipping boy. Just in the past few years, it has happened to Jiri Tlusty, Alex Steen, Matt Stajan and Luke Schenn. It is also happening to Nazem Kadri.

 

Basically, the vast majority of Leaf fans are impatient idiots.

 

The fact of the matter is that Luke Schenn is a 22 year old defenseman. I repeat, 22. Of course there are going to be growing pains and mistakes. All young defenseman make them. Was he bad this past year? Yeah, for a lot of the season, he was. Was he as bad as many Leaf fans made him out to be? Not by a longshot.

 

Schenn will never be an offensive defenseman. He won't be quarterbacking a powerplay or unleashing rockets labelled top shelf. That isn't his game.

 

He is a ultra physical (has led the league in hits by a defenseman for, what, 3 years in a row?), stay at home defenseman who, when on his game, has an excellent breakout pass. He bulked up too much this past summer and it hurt his mobility, which in turn made him more susceptible to turnovers when pressured. He needs to shed a few more pounds so that he can get back some of that mobility.

 

The bottom line is that Schenn's strengths are exactly what you need if you want to compete for the Stanley Cup. He wears his heart on his sleeve, stands up for his teammates no matter what, is physically dominant and come playoff time, you need these blue collar players if you want to win.

 

Luke Schenn is never going to be Drew Doughty, but for every Drew Doughty, you need a Rob Scuderi or a Willie Mitchell to partner with him and take care of the dirty work. Schenn is that guy and Philly fans are going to absolutely love him. I know I did and, despite JvR's upside, I absolutely hated to see Schenn traded.

 

He definitely has a huge heart and he plays for his team mates and the team. He's got what it takes to be a future leader on a Stanley Cup calibre team. I also agree that he was rushed into the NHL way too quickly. He should have gone back to junior for atleast a year after he was drafted, probably two. Even some time in the AHL really would have helped his game. But the fact of the matter is, he didn't get to go back to his junior team, and he didn't spend any time in the AHL, and now his game is not that great. Don't get me wrong, I know he's still very young and should improve, especially under a better coach and system. He may have led the league the past two seasons in hits, but that doesn't change the fact that he was a huge liability every time the puck came near his stick. He would just about always toss the puck away like it was a grenade ready to blow, and if he ever tried to carry the puck out of the zone, he would be easy bait for someone to take the puck from him and cause a turnover. He still has time to develop but as it stands now, he's got a lot of work to do.

[Phightins]

Well, all those reports about Carle staying in town for a discounted price appear to be a thing of the past. He will indeed test the free agent market, supposedly. As he should. If Dennis Wideman is worth a $5.5 million cap hit in this market, then Matt Carle has every right to test it.

[Phightins]

Funny that Jagr said a few months ago that hockey is not about the money anymore. Um, yes, it is ALL about the money. Thrilled the Flyers did not match that. A bit concerned about all the size we have lost on the wing this offseason in Jagr and JvR.

[EastCoastNiner]

Funny that Jagr said a few months ago that hockey is not about the money anymore. Um, yes, it is ALL about the money. Thrilled the Flyers did not match that. A bit concerned about all the size we have lost on the wing this offseason in Jagr and JvR.

 

Right.

 

He is so greedy for going to a team that is not a complete defensive sieve and actually improved their team this off-season. .

[Phightins]

Right.

 

He is so greedy for going to a team that is not a complete defensive sieve and actually improved their team this off-season. .

 

I didn't say he was greedy. I said exactly what he said back in January. I can't fault anybody for taking that kind of money, I sure as hell would. Doesn't change his words though.