Who are the top five Knicks of all time?

[Real Deal]

List the top five, in order, 1-5.

 

If you need a little help: http://www.otrbasketball.com/knicks/roster.php

 

Keep in mind that the top ROSTER of all time is not the same as the top five best players of the franchise, so obviously, those rosters will be leaving out players that could very well be in the top five, but were slotted behind a better player at that position.

 

Just for kicks, explain your selections.

[Oliver P]

I think that the five best Knicks of All Time are Ewing, Frazier, Reed, DeBuschere and Bernard King. So the only change I would make with the All Time Starting Lineup would be Dave instead of Monroe.

 

 

Patrick Ewing is the best Knicks ever. There is no doubt about it. Ewing is underrated by many people because he never won a ring which is unfair cause he is clearly one of the very best centers of the history of the game. In my opinion there are only 6 centers who can be consider as "better" than Ewing : Russell, Jabbar, Chamberlain, Shaq, Olajuwon and Moses Malone.

I know that many people consider Robinson as a better player than Ewing too but I personally highly disagree with that. If we were talking only about pure talent and the regular season then I would agree that a case could be made for David. But the most important factor in my opinion to determine which player is the best are clutchness and leadership and in those areas Robinson was far behind Ewing.

 

As Rodman said it many times (and he's certainly not the only one), Robinson just tended to disappear in the money time. The fact is that despite his huge talent Robinson was no leader material and it's as a second option to Tim Duncan that Robinson was the most comfortable. No surprise that Duncan became immediately the Spurs leader, in his rookie season. Robinson is, like Pippen, a second option, a lieutenant. One of the best lieutenant ever but still nothing more than a lieutenant. And that is why he cannot compare to Ewing who was a true leader.

 

I heard many times people criticizing Ewing in that area though, saying that he was a terrible leader, stuff like that... And that couldn't be more wrong. Now it is true that Ewing did play at the level he was supposed to play during the 94 Finals, I've critiziced him many times because of that, and there is no doubt in my mind that had he been himself offensively, we Knicks would have had won a third ring. Ewing was a shooting center, his jump shot was his main weapon and unfortunately for him, and as it happens to many other players who depend on their shot, he struggled with his shot in those Finals. Riley told him all the time to play more inside the paint but Ewing did not listen and kept shooting from mid range. Not only that but he even shot from further away each time.. and so kept struggling with his FG%. So it is true that Pat did not act like a leader is supposed to in the 94 Finals. But it is definitely not enough to make him a bad leader..

 

Cause let's not forget about all the times when Ewing literally carried us on his shoulders. In 1992 for example. It's during the series against the Bulls that year that Ewing had the best performance of his career IMO. Especially in games 1 and 6. In game 1 he was literally unstoppable. He could score from anywhere on the court that day, he was outstanding and was the first reason why the Knicks schocked the NBA world and won this first game in Chicago Stadium. And in game 6 Ewing had a Willis Reed like performance. As a matter of fact Ewing sprained his ankle during that game but he came back to play anyway and led the team to an amazing win to force the Bulls to a game 7. It was just a true heroic performance like only a few players can accomplish..

 

We can also talk about that 1994 year, Ewing was not himself in the Finals but he was amazing in all the other series hitting amazing clutch shots against both the Pacers and Bulls.. And when I say that Pat wasn't himself in those Finals, I want to precise (as I already said) that he struggled "offensively" cause he was definitely there defensively and in rebounds. He could even arguably be considered as the best defensive player of the Finals, he blocked everyeone all the time during the Finals and set a record for both most blocks in a Finals series and in a Finals single game.

 

Ewing was a proven leader, this cannot be denied. And the reason why he did not win a ring was rather, first because the Knicks had to face the Jordan's Bulls during the whole 90's, that Bulls team that, once they started to win, no one - I emphsize NO ONE - was ever able to beat, and second because Pat never had enough help during his prime. He played briefly with King at the beginning of his career but first they barely played together cause King was always injured at the time and second Ewing wasn't at his prime yet. And when Houston and Sprewell arrived in the team Ewing started to decrease and get injured every year.. Besides Houston never became the player he was supposed to become. But had Ewing been at his prime when Spree played the best basketball of his career in the 99 playoffs I'm sure that he would have won a ring. The best teammate that Ewing had at his prime was Starks. And as much as I love Starks (he's my fav player ever, with Ewing of course) he was not a superstar. A star yes but no superstar. And he was not regular enough to be a true second option, he would have rather made a fantastic third option.

 

 

Anyway after Ewing the best players that we ever had were definitely Walt Frazier and Willis Reed. It is very hard to say who was the best of the two.. They both had a fantastic career, they both were terrific leaders, both were clutch and great defenders. It's very hard to say. Sure Reed was MVP once and twice NBA Finals MVP contrary to Frazier so we could conclude that Reed was the better player.. But it is not that easy. First it is important to know that centers are more likely to be give an award, especially the MVP award. How many centers have been MVP ? How many PGs ? Big difference..

 

Let's look at the two championships for example : during the first championship we all remember about Reed's miraculous come back which motivated the Knicks to get the win. It is indeed one of the greatest moments ever. But it's also important to remember that Reed only scored two baskets during that game and that he quickly had to return on the bench.. While Frazier scored 36 points and gave 18 assists. So who was truly the hero of that game ? Not so easy to answer.

 

In the second championship Reed had started to decrease and was not as dominant as he used to be. He still won the Finals MVP but Frazier was now clearly the leader of the team and carried the Knicks on his shoulders during the whole playoffs. When we add to all of this that, before the arrival of Ewing, Clyde hold the Knicks records for most games, minutes played, field goals attempted, field goals made, free throws attempted, free throws made and points, and that he still holds the one for most assists well it is hard to go against Walt for second best Knicks ever.

 

 

The fourth best Knicks of All Time is IMO Dave DeBuschere. Dave DeBuschere is often forgotten by people when we talk about the best Knicks ever and I think that it's first because Dave was the third option during the two Knicks championship, he focused more on the dirty work and was first of all a defensive player. He was a Rodman like player in a sense. Except that he was also an efficient scorer.

 

Dave is one of the players that had the highest basketball IQ in the history of the game. He was already considered as a great player in his Detroit years but he New York he literally exploded. He changed the Knicks by his presence alone as he allowed Reed to finally play at his true position, the center position and the Knicks finally had at the same time a true PF (Dave could also play SF very efficiently though, but it's as a PF that he could give his best). In New York Dave became one of the most talented and feared players in the league and also one of the greatest PFs we ever seen.

 

At the exception of Rodman he is probably the greatest defensive PF of All Time. Dave was All Star every year in his Knicks days and there is no doubt that, while most people focus on Frazier, Reed or Monroe during that time, the Knicks could not have won without him.

 

 

The fifth best Knicks of All Time is IMO Bernard King. In terms of pure talent Bernard could be considered as second.. But unfortunately injuries deeply hurt his career. But in New York, when he was on court, that player was just unbelievable. He had some amazing performances : he became the first player since 1964 to score at least 50 points two games in a row (two victories against San Antonio and Dallas) ; he became the tenth player in the history of the NBA to score at least 60 points in one game ; he was the 85 scoring leader with 32.9 PPG.

 

Bernard King is one of the purest scorers we ever seen in the game, it is just too bad that he and Ewing did not play together at their prime, they could have become one of the greatest duos we ever seen.

 

 

A case could be made for Monroe instead of King for the fifth best Knicks though. The Pearl is one of the most exciting SG we ever seen and the Frazier-Monroe duo is one of the greatest guard combinations of All Time (arguably the greatest). He and Pete Maravich revolutionized the game and the shooting guard position.

 

However his Knicks years are not as impressive as his Bullets years. Although that's mainly because he was better surrounded in New York. He still had some amazing years as a Knick but I think that overall King deserves a bit more to be the fifth best Knicks of All Time. But it's definitely arguable.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Oliver P

[NomarFachix]

WHOA it's my dude Oliver, Holla!

[Oliver P]

Hey illwill wha's up ? Long time no see haha.

 

Nice to see you man.