Pats vs. Bears, positions battle. Who's better?

[reno]

QB. Advantage, Patriots obviously Brady is very hot.

RB: Advantage, Bears, forte is a much better work horse.

WR. Advantage, slightly to the patriots due to welker but outside of him they are about even.

TE. Advantage, Bears, though kellen davis is a new guy he will have a bigger factor due to martz system and his remarkable size.

OLine. Advantage, patriots, dont need to explain.

Special Teams: Advantage, bears, again I should not have to explain why.

DLine. Advantage, bears again just get remarkable pressure among their front 4.

LB: Advantage, easily bears cannot beat urlacher+briggs.

DB. Advantage, bears, jennings is solid, tillman is a monster at forcing fumbles, add harris+meriweather at safety, you got a solid backfield.

 

 

Overall, I would have to say chicago has the better overall team. Patriots will have a better offense and brady will always keep them in check, but they will have problems against better teams.

[CaliCurbStomppa]

QB. Advantage, Patriots, Brady too good

RB: Advantage, Bears, Forte is a top 10 RB in league

WR. Advantage, Patriots, Brady make any body look like all pro bowler out there

TE. Advantage, Patriots, They have 2 studs

OLine. Advantage, Patriots, They always had amazing oline

Special Teams: Advantage, Bears, Hester is too untouchable i would never bet against him.

DLine. Advantage, Patriots, Well they got Wilfork, Warren, Haynesborth. All Bears got is Julius Peppers.

LB: Advantage, Bears, Urlacher is heart and soul of that d although Mayo is good but not better than Urlacher and their other lbs are ehh. Bears got Briggs who is real good.

DB. Advantage, Patriots, It not bad but I don't think Bears never had a good secondary in the first place.

 

 

Pats r def better team overall. They just don't stack good against them in the linebacker area as they could improve. Lets see what ECN say im looking forward to his post what he has say

Edited September 15, 2011 by CaliCurbStomppa

[Kobe24]

Teams werent much different last year and pats were up like 30-0 at half?

[EastCoastNiner]

QB. Advantage, Patriots obviously Brady is very hot.

RB: Advantage, Bears, forte is a much better work horse.

WR. Advantage, slightly to the patriots due to welker but outside of him they are about even.

TE. Advantage, Bears, though kellen davis is a new guy he will have a bigger factor due to martz system and his remarkable size.

OLine. Advantage, patriots, dont need to explain.

Special Teams: Advantage, bears, again I should not have to explain why.

DLine. Advantage, bears again just get remarkable pressure among their front 4.

LB: Advantage, easily bears cannot beat urlacher+briggs.

DB. Advantage, bears, jennings is solid, tillman is a monster at forcing fumbles, add harris+meriweather at safety, you got a solid backfield.

 

 

Overall, I would have to say chicago has the better overall team. Patriots will have a better offense and brady will always keep them in check, but they will have problems against better teams.

 

QB's: Patriots: It's not even close

HB's: Patriots: They have BJGE, Woodhead, Vereen, and Riddley. That's excellent depth, and each player brings a different dynamic. I know people will disagree because they might not know much about Vereen and Riddley, but they are both really good.

WR's: Patriots: I'll take the excellent route runners in Welker, Branch, and Ochocinco (we'll wait and see), along with Edelman, Price, and Slater. Part of this may be influenced by the "system" they play in, but I wouldn't trade them for CHI's WR's.

TE's: Patriots: Again, it's not even close. Both TE's are near impossible to cover. Gronk has the size, strength, and hands, as well as some good speed for his size. Aaron Hernandez has great speed, and is more of a hybrid, and everyone has seen what he can do. He needs to fix his fumbling problems though.

O-Line: Patriots: Again, it's not even close, and if Solder can play like he did last week, this o-line will be something special.

ST's: Bears: I'll give it to the Bears here, but the Patriots special teams aren't bad.

D-Line: Bears (for now): I'll give it to the Bears right now as they are proven, but I truly believe by the end of the season most people will say the Patriots d-line is better.

LB's: Bears: It's the Bears, as they have some great LB's. I think the Patriots have the best Lb out of both teams, but you can't pick against CHI here. However, Spikes and Cunningham could make this closer or change the answer if they play well.

DB's: Draw: I'm really not sure, but I do like the NE secondary. The game against Miami, they were playing soft for a lot of the game when Henne tore them up. McCourty and Dowling could be a great combo.

 

 

Overall, it's the Patriots, and it's not really close. I'm not the most knowledgeable about college football, so I'd like to see what iBoldin or someone else has to say about the two rookie HB's for the Patriots.

Edited September 15, 2011 by EastCoastNiner

[EastCoastNiner]

Teams werent much different last year and pats were up like 30-0 at half?

 

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't bring up recent games or examples of games teams dominated!!!! :o .

[reno]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't bring up recent games or examples of games teams dominated!!!! :o .

theres a big difference between 07 and 10, 07 for starters you had randy moss...

 

anyway, yeah patriots were up big in the first halftime, but bears defense figured them out and pretty much held them down for the entire second half. Bears are a better team than last year, offense is more synced, line is better, defensive line is a lot better with no more tommie harris and dt henry melton is looking like a real stud, excellent pre season and excellent week 1.

[His Greatness]

I think the Pats are better.

[EastCoastNiner]

I think the Pats are better.

 

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1234184827_hot%20chick%20in%20the%20audience.gif

[Lkr]

QB. Patriots have a huge advantage

RB: Forte is better than any Pats RB, but the Pats have so much more depth with The Law Firm, Woodcock, Faulk, etc.

WR. Patriots, no questions

TE. I'd have to smoke crack to say that any Bears TE is better than Gronkowski OR Hernandez

OLine. Pats

Special Teams: Bears. Hester is the best KR/PR and Gould is among the best kickers

DLine. Pats

LB: Pats

DB. Pats, McCourty is just too good

 

New England>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Chicago

[EastCoastNiner]

New England>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Chicago

 

http://i34.tinypic.com/wveeld.gif

[The Great iBoldin]

QB: Pats

RB: Push, Forte is a good player but the Pats have a better stable of backs. Could go either way. I love BJGE.

WR: Pats, neither are anything special as a group.

TE: Pats

OL: Pats

 

DL: Push - Bears are better on the edge, Pats better in the interior.

LB: Bears, I guess. Briggs wanted out and he's not as good as he once was.

DB: Bears, but I don't think either are that good. Chad Henne pumped the Pats as they played way too much zone.

 

ST: Bears

 

The Bears are not a good team, that's the problem.

[EastCoastNiner]

QB: Pats

RB: Push, Forte is a good player but the Pats have a better stable of backs. Could go either way. I love BJGE.

WR: Pats, neither are anything special as a group.

TE: Pats

OL: Pats

 

DL: Push - Bears are better on the edge, Pats better in the interior.

LB: Bears, I guess. Briggs wanted out and he's not as good as he once was.

DB: Bears, but I don't think either are that good. Chad Henne pumped the Pats as they played way too much zone.

 

ST: Bears

 

The Bears are not a good team, that's the problem.

 

They'll beat the Saints, and the NFC North will all come down to head to head match-ups with the Packers.

[The Great iBoldin]

They'll beat the Saints, and the NFC North will all come down to head to head match-ups with the Packers.

 

New Orleans has an elite defense that is going to make the necessary adjustments and beat Chicago by 14 points. Green Bay is a much better team then the Bears, like 6 wins better.But that's my opinion.

[reno]

New Orleans has an elite defense that is going to make the necessary adjustments and beat Chicago by 14 points. Green Bay is a much better team then the Bears, like 6 wins better.But that's my opinion.

 

new orleans has an elite defense? lmao lolol lololliooollllllllll

 

 

much better team? thats why the bears came one drive short to tying the nfc championship game with hanie at qb? thats why the bears finished with a better record and won the nfc north? Briggs is still an elite player, he does a lot of things that the stat sheets does not reflect, he does not want out of chicago he just wants a phat contract cause hes a you know what.

[The Great iBoldin]

new orleans has an elite defense? lmao lolol lololliooollllllllll

 

 

much better team? thats why the bears came one drive short to tying the nfc championship game with hanie at qb? thats why the bears finished with a better record and won the nfc north? Briggs is still an elite player, he does a lot of things that the stat sheets does not reflect, he does not want out of chicago he just wants a phat contract cause hes a you know what.

 

They have talent all over the defense and one of the best coordinators in the game in Gregg Williams.

 

That was last year, but if you want to play that game I can play it, too. Green Bay still won that game, on the road. Green Bay still won the Super Bowl. Green Bay were ravaged by injuries including one to a position where they had visibly no depth and a crucial part to winning a Super Bowl at running back. Chicago doesn't win that game with Cutler either.

 

You must have a very loose term on what is an "elite" player. Lance Briggs is not an elite player. The Bears don't have an elite player. Before you come in with elite players = elite units, yes they are completely separate entities.

[reno]

They have talent all over the defense and one of the best coordinators in the game in Gregg Williams.

 

That was last year, but if you want to play that game I can play it, too. Green Bay still won that game, on the road. Green Bay still won the Super Bowl. Green Bay were ravaged by injuries including one to a position where they had visibly no depth and a crucial part to winning a Super Bowl at running back. Chicago doesn't win that game with Cutler either.

 

You must have a very loose term on what is an "elite" player. Lance Briggs is not an elite player. The Bears don't have an elite player. Before you come in with elite players = elite units, yes they are completely separate entities.

talent all over defense? lol please enlighten me, they just gave up 42 points against green bay, elite defenses don't do that. an elite defense would find its way to slow down the opposing offense, saints couldn't even do that. Green bay was marching up with ease all 4 quarters.

then what are you basing much better team on? Week one? then if so, bears are a better team overall as they showed...

briggs not an elite player? 6x pro bowler, 3 time all pro?Peppers is not an elite player? Brian urlacher is not an elite player even tho he had one of his best seasons this past year and was in the talks for dpoy? But that's last year, he had a great game this past week against atlanta. Devin Hester is not an elite returner?

[The Great iBoldin]

talent all over defense? lol please enlighten me, they just gave up 42 points against green bay, elite defenses don't do that. an elite defense would find its way to slow down the opposing offense, saints couldn't even do that. Green bay was marching up with ease all 4 quarters.

then what are you basing much better team on? Week one? then if so, bears are a better team overall as they showed...

briggs not an elite player? 6x pro bowler, 3 time all pro?Peppers is not an elite player? Brian urlacher is not an elite player even tho he had one of his best seasons this past year and was in the talks for dpoy? But that's last year, he had a great game this past week against atlanta. Devin Hester is not an elite returner?

 

Yeah, and the Patriots just let Chad Henne throw for over 400 years. Cam Newton just threw for an NFL rookie record in his first ever game. It's irrelevant, it was the first year off a shortened off-season. These defenses haven't had a chance to gel yet, it takes a lot longer for a defense to come together then it does an offense. The Saints have players like Aubrayo Franklin, Sedrick Ellis, Jonathan Vilma, Malcolm Jenkins, Tracy Porter and Jabari Greer. Including key rotational players like Shaun Rodgers, Cam Jordan, Martez Wilson, etc. It's a vibrant defense with a lot of speed and skill with one of the best coordinators in the NFL. Yes, it's an elite defense. By the end of the game, Green Bay wasn't 'marching up with ease' at all. New Orleans hunkered down and starting playing some defense as the game wore on.

 

No, Briggs is not an elite player. His last all-pro selection was two years ago, who gives a shit about pro bowls. I will give you Julius Peppers, he's an elite player. Devin Hester is not a good football player outside of being a great kick returner. Kick returners are not elite commodities in the NFL, and they especially aren't now that a kicker with any sort of leg should pound the ball out of the end zone 80% of the time.

 

Brian Urlacher received 2 votes, that's not even in contention. Ed Reed got a vote and he played 10 games last year. Urlacher wasn't in contention to win that award, there's a difference between getting two votes and getting 15 votes.

 

I'm basing Green Bay being better then Chicago because they have more talent, have players that win football games and has one of the best quarterbacks in the game right now along with the best offense in football.

[EastCoastNiner]

I think you're short changing the Bear defense a little. I think Peppers, like you recognized in your last post, is absolutely an elite player, and I think Briggs and Urlacher can be near elite as well, although I think they're both overrated.

 

I think the Bears defense is pretty good, and I don't really know what to think about the Saints defense.

[Real Deal]

Can't agree with your decision to put Chicago's TE's over the Pats' guys. A lot of that is because Brady uses his TE's better than any other QB in the game, though, and maxes out their potential.

 

QB - No discussion...it's Brady over anyone else in the NFL.

HB - Forte is going to be the best back in this discussion, but the Pats have both Woodhead and Green-Ellis, so it's a toss-up for me

WR - Pats, thanks to Welker.

TE - Pats, see my explanation at the very top of my post. I'm sure Brady would be able to do the same for Davis, though.

OL - Pats, better protection. Sometimes, Brady can go to sleep in the pocket. Not even sure this is close.

ST - Bears, thanks to Hester.

DL - Bears, thanks to Peppers and whoever else they can send around the corner.

LB - Bears. Must be nice to be able to send someone like Urlacher down the middle.

DB - Bears. I wasn't impressed with NE after seeing Henne have his way with them, although you have to give credit to Marshall as well. Just one game, though.

 

Looks like the Bears are better on paper, but if you have the Tom Brady factor, that changes quite a bit. The Pats can score at will, and you can rarely count them out of a game early because of it. It takes an elite DB crew to slow Brady down, which is obviously their bread and butter, and Chicago doesn't have what the Jets have (should've made a play for Aso, not sure if they did or not, or if they even had the money to).

[The Great iBoldin]

Real Deal, why blitz when you can drop into their zones and defend that pass so conservatively?

[Real Deal]

Real Deal, why blitz when you can drop into their zones and defend that pass so conservatively?

Conservative pass defense doesn't contain some of the best receivers in the league. Why rely on pass defense against an excellent QB and/or receiving core if, say, the opposing o-line is feeding you an open highway to that QB 1-2 times every four downs?

 

If you have both, there's no reason not to use both, especially if you're playing Tom Brady and about 4-5 different weapons of his choice in the air, including two TE's that are fairly difficult to match up with from the start. No reason not to blitz a couple of times and put pressure on him if you're sitting 80 yards away from the endzone, as long as you're not going to let Welker sprint down the field like the Flash.

[EastCoastNiner]

Not even talking about a comparison tho the Patriots HB's, but I don't think Matt Forte is that good. I think he's an upper end of the middle of the pack running backs.