EastCoastNiner Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Alright, I've thought of this before, and seen it discussed other places before, but is there really such a thing as "choking" in the playoffs and Championships? I'm not saying a team can't "choke", but if they "choke", then are they still considered the better team, since they would have been the favorites in that situation. Basically I'm saying, if a team going into the game is considered the favorite, and happen to lose, and people consider it a choke, then that must mean that the better team actually lost, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universe Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Of course. NFL comes to the top of my head just with the playoff format. In the end though, one team is still the champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Of course. NFL comes to the top of my head just with the playoff format. In the end though, one team is still the champion. So, if a team chokes (they were the favorites and regarded as the better team before the game), then they should still be considered the better team if they "choke" because if they choked, that means they were thought of as the better team, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universe Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 So, if a team chokes (they were the favorites and regarded as the better team before the game), then they should still be considered the better team if they "choke" because if they choked, that means they were thought of as the better team, right?I don't really see it as choking as more of the better team won that day. The undefeated Patriots lost the Superbowl but if it was a three game series, they could have easily been champion. It doesn't work like that though and years down the line, nobody remembers second place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Feelgood Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Wouldn't you call the Yankees losing against the Red Sox in the World Series being up 3-0 and losing the next 4 games a choke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universe Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Wouldn't you call the Yankees losing against the Red Sox in the World Series being up 3-0 and losing the next 4 games a choke?Outplayed in four games? Has no team in history had a four game win streak? Choking is a word that gives less credit to the actual winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Basically I'm saying, if a team going into the game is considered the favorite, and happen to lose, and people consider it a choke, then that must mean that the better team actually lost, right?But shouldn't level of performance in tense situations be significant in evaluation of teams? I don't think there is a definitive answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Feelgood Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Outplayed in four games? Has no team in history had a four game win streak? Choking is a word that gives less credit to the actual winner. Were talking about the World Series though. Typically, when a team goes up 3 game to 0, they are able to win just one more game. I don't think there are many teams in the history of baseball that has won 4 games in a row during the World Series while being down 3-0. So yes, I consider that a choke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universe Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Were talking about the World Series though. Typically, when a team goes up 3 game to 0, they are able to win just one more game. I don't think there are many teams in the history of baseball that has won 4 games in a row during the World Series while being down 3-0. So yes, I consider that a choke.Why couldn't have Boston just outplayed them? It's not like some of the Yankees on that team had never won a championship before or didn't win one after that. Boston Bruins blew a 3-0 lead to Philly which is rare in hockey and the next year they are champions. Did they choke or the better team won and they improved their roster and won it this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Anytime it's a 7 game series, the better team comes out on top. But if we're talking about one game, such as the Super Bowl or a game in March Madness, the better team doesn't always win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) "Choking" is really just a silly narrative that fans/media can use to spark up conversation. And it gets used a lot because the true "best team" almost never wins the championship because the playoffs are very flukey (except in the NBA, where the best team wins far more regularly). This actually had me thinking the other day. Would sports be better without playoffs? I know you will all jump on me right away and say no, which is understandable, but think about it for a minute. The playoffs are really a pretty poor evaluator. Inferior teams win championships all the time, even when 5 and 7 game series' are used. (For the record I am not proposing that we get rid of playoffs, they are fun/dramatic/TV ratings generators/etc, but it would assure that the "best team" usually wins). Just some food for thought. Edited September 23, 2011 by Phightins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Anytime it's a 4 game series, the better team comes out on top. But if we're talking about one game, such as the Super Bowl or a game in March Madness, the better team doesn't always win. I don't think this is true at all. It's still a very small sample size. Certainly more accurate than a 1 game series though, but not by as much as you'd think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I don't think this is true at all. It's still a very small sample size. Certainly more accurate than a 1 game series though, but not by as much as you'd think.I think it's a pretty accurate assumption. When's the last time the better team didn't come out on top in a 7 game series? (I edited my post, accidentally had typed 4 game series) I'm sure you can give me a few examples where it has happened in baseball, but in basketball, it's almost never the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I think it's a pretty accurate assumption. When's the last time the better team didn't come out on top in a 7 game series? (I edited my post, accidentally had typed 4 game series) I'm sure you can give me a few examples where it has happened in baseball, but in basketball, it's almost never the case. You are right about basketball, that is the one exception as I mentioned earlier. Happens all the time in the 3 other major US pro leagues. I could give you hundreds of examples from just the past ten years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 You are right about basketball, that is the one exception as I mentioned earlier. Happens all the time in the 3 other major US pro leagues. I could give you hundreds of examples from just the past ten years.Yup, like the Caps in the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 It's interesting to see the different thoughts. I think it may depend on the particular situation, but it's just interesting how sometimes a team can "choke", yet the "better" team somehow still won.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universe Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Question is, what makes basketball that way? Less overall talent or because fewer guys are needed to be a winner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Question is, what makes basketball that way? Less overall talent or because fewer guys are needed to be a winner? Basketball is different then the three other major U.S. sports. One player "can" win you a championship, with some slight help, but you won't win one in the other sports with just one player, granted there's more players in the other sports. There's a reason the Penguins have only won one Stanley Cup despite having two of the top three players in the NHL (I think they are), and it's not just because of injuries. You need a complete team effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish7718 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Not trying to troll but I think the 07 Pats are a perfect example of a team that was clearly the best team in football before and after the super bowl despite who won. I think the important thing to remember is the best team doesn't always win. Just because you win the championship doesn't make you the best team, it makes you the champions which is better than being the best because your the champ. However, at the end of the day just because you beat a team once or on a particular stretch of days, doesn't make you better than that team. Just means you played better at the right time and for that you earn the title, champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomarFachix Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Wouldn't you call the Yankees losing against the Red Sox in the World Series being up 3-0 and losing the next 4 games a choke?Just nitpicking, but two American League teams can't play each other in the World Series. It was the American League Championship Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Basketball is different then the three other major U.S. sports. One player "can" win you a championship, with some slight helpName one team that has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted September 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Name one team that has. Look no further than this past NBA Finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Look no further than this past NBA Finals.LOL, that's a joke right? They had two future hall of famers, easily the best supporting cast in the league, and the best head coach in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted September 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 LOL, that's a joke right? They had two future hall of famers, easily the best supporting cast in the league, and the best head coach in the league. It was all Dirk. Let's use Kidd's previous years as a way to make him seem like he was a HOF player last year. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 It was all Dirk. Let's use Kidd's previous years as a way to make him seem like he was a HOF player last year. .And I suppose Tyson's great defense, Carlisle's zone defense schemes to limit LeBron, Jet's incredible Finals performance, and Dallas' great shooting from the 3 were all products of Dirk, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.