Dash Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Stern: This offer will be on the table until Wednesday, the close of business.KBergCBS "If the union doesn't accept this deal, the season is lost--and you can blame them, not us." -David Stern WojYahooNBA Adrian WojnarowskiFisher: "We made true, good faith efforts to get deal done tonight, and we're at a loss for why we could not close it out..." AlexKennedyNBA Alex KennedyDerek Fisher: "We made economic moves that were a genuine attempt to close the gap. We moved towards the NBA, at around a 51 percent deal." KBergCBS Ken BergerFisher: A portion of 51 perent would go towards a new benefits program that would significantly impact the lives of retired players. KBergCBS Ken BergerFisher: We've been given the ultimatum and our answer is that's not acceptable to us. AlexKennedyNBA Alex KennedyFisher: "We didn't get the sense they wanted to get adeal done. We had every opportunity. We were prepared to stay here until sun came out." So basically the owners are getting greedy even though the players dropped it to 51/49, the union will likely turn down the final offer Wednesday followed decertification which would most likely mean a lost season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Posted November 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 More tweets: SeanDeveney Sean Deveneyby AlexKennedyNBAOuch ... Fisher says "I'm not sure when or why we'd meet again ..." This is it, in other words. WojYahooNBA Adrian WojnarowskiPlayers are saying that owners deal is 50-50 split, not 51-49. WojYahooNBA Adrian WojnarowskiKessler: "The big story here is they want it all. They want the system for taxpayers will never be in marketplace....." WojYahooNBA Adrian WojnarowskiSeveral agents believed bad turn today in talks would get them player support they need for decertification. They're polling players now. That last tweet is pretty big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballorama Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Looks like no hope for a season.... wow. Ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamerGuy Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 The players vote on the deal could be pretty close. The star players can hold out money wise, but I think everyone else will want to get paid soon. This whole thing is a damn mess, and I just want it to end already. -_- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicbalala245 Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Veteran player who has long been on side of decertification just texted me: "Time to blow this (bleep) to the moon." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamerGuy Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 @AlexKennedyNBA Alex KennedyPaul George (@king24george) tweeted that Michael Jordan wanted players to receive just 37% of BRI. He called Jordan a "straight hypocrite." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted November 6, 2011 Owner Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Didn't Jordan lead the team of players that threatened to decertify back in the mid-90s? I'm pretty sure it was him and Ewing. WTF is he thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomarFachix Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) Decertify already and [expletive] the owners in their asses. Tired of it already. Jordan is a doucher. Edited November 6, 2011 by illwill21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Jordan doesnt want Kobe to get his 6th. What a bitch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YugoRocketsFan Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Jordan doesnt want Kobe to get his 6th. What a bitch.LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted November 6, 2011 Owner Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 The one thing that pisses me off most about Jordan, other than him being a part of the group that threatened decertification back then...was that, in his last two seasons at Chicago, Jordan made $30 million and $33 million...which is the most by any player in NBA history (single season). Now, he's asking the players to take 37% of the BRI, down from 57%, after the owners are basically getting everything to begin with? I love Mike on the court...but off the court, I rarely hear anything good about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?QuestionMark? Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 The one thing that pisses me off most about Jordan, other than him being a part of the group that threatened decertification back then...was that, in his last two seasons at Chicago, Jordan made $30 million and $33 million...which is the most by any player in NBA history (single season). And why was it that he was able to earn so much? Because there wasn't a limit in place on a player's potential earning. So this "broken" system seems to have benefited the owners. I want a player to look Jordan in the face and repeat what MJ told Abe Pollin, "If you can't make a profit, sell the team." Anyways, as for this lockout, I want it to end, but if the players hold firm and are willing to lose a season, I completely understand. The owners are being disingenuous and are purposely sabataging the season. This has never been a negotiation. How can they call it one when the players are the only ones making concessions? What have the players gotten out of this? Nothing. The owners haven't been willing to give up something, just to take less. Even in the NFL players got less practice sessions out of it. The NBA made more revenure than ever before and the value of franchises are exploding, if owners can't make a profit, that's the league's own fault, not the players. That's up to the league to have significant revenue sharing and placing teams in markets to succeed. This argument about small market teams not being able to spend as much as big market teams is stupid. Ok, so you can't spend as much, but spending doesn't guarantee success. The Knicks, Clippers, Bulls, and Celtics had about a decade of irrelevance despite their spending. Meanwhile the Jazz, Spurs, Magic, and Cleveland have had success. This has never been a real negotiation, this has been about the owners bleeding the players for as much as they can to the point where both sides would sacrafice a season. During the season when there were talks about a lockout, I was on here saying the players should decertify because that was their biggest leverage. Now we're here in November and just now are there real talks about decertification. The biggest mistake was the players believing the owners wanted to make a fair deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted November 7, 2011 Owner Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 If there were more small-market teams like the Spurs, who spend their money wisely (not just on players, but on coaching and an excellent crew of assistants and scouts, especially international scouting), this wouldn't be such a big problem. I find it funny that the owners have been digging their own graves for years, and now, they want to punish players, NBA employees, and all of the fans for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamerGuy Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 NBA_Labor NBA Laborby NBANBA Proposal: PA asked & NBA said yes - no hard cap; fully guaranteed contracts; no "rollbacks" to existing plyr contracts WojYahooNBA Adrian WojnarowskiThe NBA and NBPA are seriously discussing setting up a meeting for Tuesday to try and reach agreement on a labor deal, league source tells Y !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Ugh, I'll believe it when I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Kevin Martin: "If you know for sure [the owners] are not moving, then you take the best deal possible," Martin wrote in a text message to SI.com. "We are risking losing 20 to 25 percent of missed games that we'll never get back, all over 2 percent [of basketball-related income] over an eight- to 10-year period [of the eventual collective bargaining agreement]. And let's be honest: 60 to 70 percent of players won't even be in the league when the next CBA comes around."http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/11/07/kevin.martin.nba.labor/index.html#ixzz1d47JTZwG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Feelgood Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Definitely agree with Kevin Martin, one of the reasons why he's one of my favorite players...he's smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 People keep eating the "judgement day" and "nuclear option" bullshit Stern and writers like Wojo keep hyping up. The 1998-1999 lockout didn't end until January of that season...not having a deal this week won't mean no season, and not having a deal this time next month probably won't mean a full season will be lost, either. They are too close in their negotiations (in terms of percentages and system issues) to risk losing all 82 games + a postseason. They would be losing more money than the difference in each side's offer, not to mention the massive hit the league would take in terms of popularity and credibility. There will be games played this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Posted November 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) Sounds like the players assocation WON'T be holding a vote, possibly because Fisher and Hunter want to reject the NBA's offer without even listening to the players they're "representing" even though a lot seem to be willing to take the deal on the table (Kobe Bryant, Steve Blake, and Kevin Martin have all been vocal about taking the offer recently and holding a vote). I've brought up how greedy the owners have been before but the stupidity of the NBAPA seems to be on a similar level. Its too late to decertify, they're not going to get a better deal than what is already on the table (50-50) and the owners seem more capable of holding out than the players and will only increase their demands after Wednesday. Just take the damn deal. Edited November 8, 2011 by Dash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Posted November 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Update per Woj: As David Stern tries to hold off his most rabid hardline owners, the NBA’s commissioner has expressed a willingness to meet with the Players Association with the possibility of relenting on some system issues that are important to the union in reaching an agreement, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. Nevertheless, union executive director Billy Hunter was still deciding late Monday whether he wanted to take the meeting, two sources involved in the talks told Yahoo! Sports. The reason for Hunter’s hesitation was unclear. As one ownership source told Yahoo! Sports on Monday night, “If there were a couple of tweaks needed around the edges – not fundamental deal points – I believe there could be a deal if everything else is agreed upon. But there needs to be a meeting with David and Billy for anything to happen.”More From Adrian Wojnarowski Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant(notes) also has urged owners to resume talks with the players union and complete the labor agreement. “We need for the two sides to get together again before Wednesday, because we’re too close to getting a deal done,” Bryant told Yahoo! Sports. “We need to iron out the last system items and save this from spiraling into a nuclear winter.”The owners are threatening to pull their current offer at 5 p.m. ET Wednesday and return to proposing a 53-47 revenue split in favor of the league, as well as a hard salary cap and contract rollbacks. This act would almost certainly move the players to decertify the union, and could cost the NBA the entire 2011-12 season. The Players Association offered to drop its revenue split to 51 percent on Saturday, but wanted several system items – including sign-and-trade deals and full midlevel exceptions for luxury-tax paying teams – as part of a new CBA. It remains to be seen how far the owners would go to remedy the players’ concerns and move closer to an agreement. Hunter surprised some in Saturday’s mediation session when he suggested the players might be willing to drop to a 50-50 split, even when they had just stated their position as 51, sources in the room told Y! Sports. One of the union’s lawyers quickly corrected Hunter, saying he meant to say a 51-49 split, but officials on both sides believed Hunter meant what he said: 50-50. All along, the belief has been the players would eventually accept the 50-50 split if they could get satisfactory resolutions on the system issues that would protect middle-class salaries and not stifle player movement, especially to the big-spending, big-market teams who are typically over the salary cap. Some hardline owners didn’t want to even give the players until Wednesday to make a decision on accepting or rejecting Saturday’s offer, sources said. They wanted to force a decision within 24 hours, but were talked out of it. “There’s an intense feeling among the teams who are not on the labor committee as to how a 50-50 deal doesn’t fix the economic model,” the ownership source said. “They’re adamant that 50-50 is too high and that the labor committee should’ve never gone that high. Stern wouldn’t be able to overcome such strong and wide resistance however much he tries to lead here.” Player representatives of the 30 teams are meeting at 1 p.m. ET Tuesday in New York to discuss the union’s next steps. Lakers guard Steve Blake(notes) has been canvassing peers throughout the league over the past 48 hours, pushing them to contact team player representatives to push the Players Association to let its 450-plus membership vote on the owner’s ultimatum offer, sources said. Blake hasn’t been pushing players to vote “yes” or “no” on the deal but has gained a groundswell of support with players throughout the league. Nevertheless, Blake is a proponent of accepting the league’s current offer, sources said. The agents and players pushing for decertification of the Players Association believe they’re on the way to getting 50 percent of the league’s players to sign a petition this week, sources told Yahoo! Sports. “We want a show of force with the percentage who sign the petition,” one agent told Yahoo! Sports. Sources within seven of the most prominent agencies – including the agents and players themselves – said they have overwhelming support to march toward dissolving the union. The agents are selling decertification to the players as a leverage tool to get a deal done to salvage the season, as much as a long-term threat to take the owners to federal court with an antitrust lawsuit. Agents working on the decertification include Mark Bartelstein, Arn Tellem, Jeff Schwartz, Bill Duffy, Leon Rose, Henry Thomas and Dan Fegan. Another agent outside of those said his firm, which includes a dozen clients, is “100 percent on board” with voting for decertification. After at least 30 percent of the league’s players – approximately 130 – sign the petition, the players must wait 45 days before the 450-plus members vote for decertification. A simple majority is needed to decertify. “Everything thrown our way is a threat and an ultimatum,” Boston Celtics guard Rajon Rondo said. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_lockout_kobe_bryant_110711 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 http://i42.tinypic.com/20q1j4w.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 NBA commissioner David Stern has the authority to make minor system alterations to the owners’ latest labor offer to the players to try to complete a collective bargaining agreement and end the lockout, ownership sources told Yahoo! Sports. “There can be a few things tweaked along the edges, the periphery and this can be agreed upon,” one ownership source told Yahoo! Sports. “I’m confident that would not be an issue if [stern] did that.” “It will be a very slight budge,” one high-ranking management source said. Union officials reconnected with the league on Wednesday morning to attempt to set up a negotiating session ahead of the league’s 5 p.m. ET deadline for the players to accept the offer. The question: Will the owners compromise enough to make a deal happen? Despite the players now offering a 50-50 split in revenue – giving back as much as $375 million a year – owners are still threatening to pull the current offer, and reissue a previous draconian proposal that could set into motion union decertification and the possible cancellation of the entire 2011-12 season. The players are determined to keep system issues that allow them freedom to move to luxury-tax teams, among other issues involving the tax and escrow systems. Several hardline owners are eager for the NBA to submit the threatened proposal that gives them a 53 percent share of the revenue, a hard salary cap and rollbacks on current NBA contracts. Stern has promised that deal will return on Wednesday evening if there is no agreement. As one ownership source said, “But there’s not enough of [the hardline owners]. Most are not thrilled with current deal, but would take it. But as time goes on and more losses pile up, a majority will need more than the 50-50 deal.” Owners and union officials were livid with Jeffrey Kessler, one of the lead Players Association attorneys, after he compared the league’s treatment of players to “plantation workers” in an interview with The Washington Post, officials on both sides told Yahoo! Sports. Stern ripped Kessler, calling him, “routinely despicable,” and union officials feared it could have a direct impact on the owners’ willingness to cut a deal Wednesday. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ApzlEspVUmGim5w_P9g8Y5m8vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_lockout_110911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) 30 minutes until deadline... Edit: daldridgetnt David AldridgeJust in case you're worrying...they won't stop talking at 5 if they're still working. Deadline in play only if/when negotiations break off. Edited November 9, 2011 by Dash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 daldridgetnt David AldridgeLeague, union ordering in dinner. Make of it what you will. #smallmoves Sounds like they're going to duke it out for a while longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 This whole situation has been turning me off to basketball more and more...I'm starting to not care about it at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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