Raptors 2011-2012 Tanking/Draft Anticipation

[Built Ford Tough]

8th pick + Ed Davis for Rudy Gay? I don't see Memphis doing it but who knows.

 

Quick question for you, which player would you rather have:

 

Player A: 17.2 ppg, 4 rpg, 2 apg with a 53 TS% and a 14.4 PER

Player B: 19 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 2 apg with a 52 TS% and a 16.8 PER

 

Player A is paid under $8M and Player B is on a max contract.

[DunkinDerozan]

Quick question for you, which player would you rather have:

 

Player A: 17.2 ppg, 4 rpg, 2 apg with a 53 TS% and a 14.4 PER

Player B: 19 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 2 apg with a 52 TS% and a 16.8 PER

 

Player A is paid under $8M and Player B is on a max contract.

 

Is player A Derozan? Looks liek his kind of numbers. But I get what your saying.

[Built Ford Tough]

Is player A Derozan? Looks liek his kind of numbers. But I get what your saying.

 

Yeah. DeRozan is Player A (accidently took his last year stats, though, without realizing it) and Gay is Player B.

 

If a team offered Toronto an 8th pick and a prospect like Ed Davis for DeRozan, I'd jump all over that and that is with DeRozan not being horribly overpaid (hence, the uner $8M contract) like Gay is.

 

I'd be shocked if Memphis turned down an offer of Ed Davis and the 8th pick for Gay.

[DunkinDerozan]

Yeah. DeRozan is Player A (accidently took his last year stats, though, without realizing it) and Gay is Player B.

 

If a team offered Toronto an 8th pick and a prospect like Ed Davis for DeRozan, I'd jump all over that and that is with DeRozan not being horribly overpaid (hence, the uner $8M contract) like Gay is.

 

I'd be shocked if Memphis turned down an offer of Ed Davis and the 8th pick for Gay.

 

Thats true. I just thought they might not want to take that deal because Memphis isn't really a rebuilding team, so they might not be interested in prospects/picks for an already proven player.

[Built Ford Tough]

I posted in the Combine thread that Waiters received a promise and cancelled all workouts, and there is speculation as to who may have promised him.

 

Probasketballdraft ‏@Probballdraft

I've heard that Toronto really liked Dion Waiters and might be the team that promised Waiters, allegedly.

 

I have no idea how legit this source is, but it does make some sense.

 

- Colangelo was at the workout where Waiters supposedly crushed it and had everybody gushing over him.

- Immediately following that Ford moved Waiters to 8th on his mock and hasn't moved him since then.

- Colangelo and co. are at the Combine.

- Waiters was a highly regarded high school recruit, which is something Colangelo has always seemed to make a focal point of in the draft.

 

Of course, there are reasons why it doesn't make sense, either.

 

- All offseason long we've heard Colangelo wants a shooter and Waiters is a slahser with an inconsistent jumper

- All the talk about small forward while Waiters is a 2.

- Trade speculation.

- Colangelo hs never been known to play his cards so early.

 

Maybe all of this is rading the pick is a smokescreen or maybe BC already has a deal in place and the team who they are dealing the 8th pick to want Waiters. Who the [expletive] really knows? Haha.

 

Another scenario would be trading DeRozan instead of the pick. However, if they are trading for an Iguodala or Gay, that is a win now move and does it really make sense to combine that with starting two rookies next year? Not to me.

 

This is all speculation on my part of course, and if I really had to guess, I would lean on the side that the Raptors aren't the ones who promised him.

[DunkinDerozan]

I hope not. We don't need another slashing 2.

[Built Ford Tough]

I hope not. We don't need another slashing 2.

 

Aren't you a fan of drafting Austin Rivers? What exactly do you consider Rivers to be, if not a slashing 2? Him and Waiters numbers are nearly identical if you look at them from a Per 40 minute basis to make up for Rivers playing 10 more minutes a game.

 

Rivers shot 36.5% from three this year (2.1 makes on 5.6 attempts)

Waiters shot 36.3% from three (1.8 on 5.1)

 

Rivers shot 47.7% on two point shots (4.1 on 8.6)

Waiters shot 52.9% on two point shots (5.8 on 11)

 

Rivers shot 65.8% from the line (4.3 on 6.5)

Waiters shot 72.9% from the line (3.9 on 5.3)

 

Rivers' FTA/FGA was 0.46

Waiters' FTA/FGA was 0.33

 

Rivers' 3PA/FGA was 0.40

Waiters' 3PA/FGA was 0.35

 

Rivers attempted 21.3% of Duke's free throws this year

Waiters attempted 16.6% of Syracuse's free throws this year

 

Looking at the numbers, one could argue that Rivers is just as much of a slashing 2 as Waiters is.

 

 

 

 

On another note, we finally have some names for workouts. Both Lillard and Rivers will be in Toronto next week, although I don't know if they will be working out together or seperately.

 

Also, here is some stuff from interviews today with Rivers, Lillard and Barnes.

 

Rivers:

 

“It’s four through 12 where I’m ranged at, and Toronto’s right there in the middle,” said Rivers, the 6-foot-5 guard son of Boston Celtics coach Doc Rivers. “They have a great city, great organization, great pieces already there: Andrea Bargnani, (DeMar) DeRozan, (Jose) Calderon. I’m very excited for that.”

 

“They’re straightforward guys. They’re about working hard and getting the job done,” he said. “I’m excited to go there.

 

“From what I heard, (Casey) is a hard working guy and he’s smart. He’s one of the coaches that’s on the rise, for sure. I got a good vibe from him (Thursday), talked to him and got to meet with him.”

 

 

Lillard:

 

“You’ve got DeMar DeRozan, a good athlete, young, same age as me. You’ve got Ed Davis. They’ve got a lot of pieces on their team, and I think I’d add the ability from the point guard position to score and be a willing passer,” he said. “I think a lot of people see me as just as a scorer but I’m more than willing to get everybody else going.”

 

Barnes:

 

“We talked about what they need and where they’re going, how potentially if I came in how I’d be a fit,” said the 6-foot-8 small forward. “They need perimeter scoring … they’re very good defensively but they obviously want to improve offensively.”

 

http://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/nba/raptors/article/1208645--nba-draft-2012-toronto-looking-good-to-several-young-guards

[DunkinDerozan]

I never really looked at rivers numbers, I just always assumed he was a good perimeter shooter from the few games I saw him play. If he's not a good perimeter shooter like I thought then my interest in him is way down.

[Built Ford Tough]

Workout news is starting to trickle in.

 

The Toronto Raptors will continue preparations for the 2012 NBA Draft by holding pre-draft workouts at Air Canada Centre. The Raptors have five dates scheduled this week – Tuesday, June 12 through Saturday, June 16. Additional sessions will be announced as needed.

 

All of the Raptors’ pre-draft workouts will be held in the Adidas Practice Court, located on the third floor of Air Canada Centre. Media will be granted access towards the end of each session. A representative from the Raptors’ basketball operations staff will be available for comment following each workout.

 

A list of participating players will be released in the morning prior to each workout. Players and workout times are subject to change. Please call the Raptors media information line (416) 815-6111 for the latest information.

 

Toronto has the eighth overall pick in this year’s NBA Draft after finishing the regular season with a 23-43 (.348) record. The 2012 NBA Draft will be held June 28 at the Prudential Center in Newark, New Jersey. Both rounds of the Draft will be shown live on TSN and NBA TV Canada beginning at 7 p.m.

 

http://blog.raptors.com/press-releases/raptors-announce-2012-pre-draft-workout-dates/

 

So far I know for sure the following players will be in Toronto at some point:

 

Damian Lillard

Austin Rivers

John Henson

Kendall Marshall

Robert Sacre

 

Speculated to come in, but haven't read anything official:

 

Meyers Leonard

Moe Harkless

[Built Ford Tough]

Barnes will be in Toronto as well:

 

NBA Guru ‏@NBAGuru

Barnes has a workout Monday in Toronto that he's really excited for. Said he's heard great things about the city.

 

Obviously the date is wrong (Raps didn't work anybody out today) but he will be in Toronto.

 

For what it is worth, I think Marshall is going to be working out tomorrow. By the sounds of it, he is in Toronto (I think I read something about him being at the Blue Jays game today) so the logical explaination would be him working out for them tomorrow. If that is the case, I think it is logical to assume that Lillard and possibly Rivers would be here as well. That is speculation on my part, but you would think they would have guards together. At least that is how they have done things the last few years.

[DunkinDerozan]

Lillard said he likes Toronto and thinks he would fit in really well here.

 

Toronto Raptors ‏@Raptors

 

.. @Dame_Lillard says he sees fit w/ #Raptors and likes #Toronto: "It's really lively, reminds me of Chicago http://instagr.am/p/LyBSFpRHLx/

[Built Ford Tough]

Players in Toronto today were:

 

Guards:

 

Kendall Marshall - UNC

Damian Lillard - Weber St.

Devoe Joseph - Oregon

 

Wings:

 

Terrence Ross - Washington

Hollis Thompson - Georgetown

 

Bigs:

 

Henry Sims - Georgetown

Kyle O'Quinn - Norfolk St.

 

 

Not really a whole lot of news on anything, but if you want to watch their interviews you can check all of them out at:

 

http://www.nba.com/raptors/video/playlist/raptors-pre-draft-workout-video

 

 

This is really the only thing that caught my attention in terms of news:

 

Jay Satur ‏@jaysatur

Lillard finished his workout, sitting off to the side for a 1-on-1 with head coach Dwane Casey. #Raptors #Rtz

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Stefanski said something about them possibly wanting their 2nd round picks to spend a year or two in Europe, even if they are North American born. Don't know how that one slipped my mind as that, along with the tweet about Lillard above, were probably the two biggest things of the day for me.

[Check my Stats]

Seems like Lillard is our guy, but it sounds like we might have to trade up to get him. Scared it will cost a lot, but Lillard sounds more and more like a good fit here.

[DunkinDerozan]

I really like the looks of Lillard, and I think he'd be a great fit here too. Problem is I don't want us to have to give up a lot to get him. Maybe we could move up to 6th or 7th with the Pacers 2nd round pick?

[Built Ford Tough]

Bunch of potential second rounders and undrafted players came to Toronto today, so not a whole lot worth saying.

 

The players were:

 

Bigs:

 

Robert Sacre - Gonzaga

Justin Hamilton - LSU

 

Wings:

 

Kris Joseph - Syracuse

Kenny Gabriel - Auburn

 

Guards:

 

Jordan Taylor - Wisconsin

Tyshawn Taylor - Kansas

 

Depending on what happens with the 8th pick, I could see them being interested in Tyshawn or Joseph with the 37th pick and Sacre seems like an option with the Pacers 2nd. I guess Jordan Taylor is an option there as well. Nothing really noteworthy came out of the workout, though.

 

 

The most interesting piece of news comes from Doug Smith. He mentioned that nobody in the group yesterday really jumped out to the team as a must have. Maybe that means they aren't as high on Lillard as it would seem? However, it is Doug Smith after all. I don't exactly take his word as gospel as he is basically a mouthpiece for the organization. For all we know they absolutely adore Lillard but wanted to get word out that he didn't impress them that much so that a team ahead of the Raps that is interested in him (Portland being the most likely candidate) would feel comfortable that he would slide past Toronto at 8. So they float it to Doug and he reports it.

 

Or maybe there is no agenda here and they simply weren't that impressed with him. Who really knows?

 

 

EDIT: As for tomorrow, Rivers will be working out. He is currently in Toronto. I haven't heard anything else but I do know he is there.

[DunkinDerozan]

I liked watching Tyshawn Taylor playing for Kansas, I think he'd be a good pick up.

[Built Ford Tough]

In Toronto today was:

 

Harrison Barnes - UNC

Austin Rivers - Duke

Jeremy Lamb - UCONN

Scott Machado - Iona

Kim English - Mizzou

 

and a bunch of late second rounders/undrafted players.

 

- Lamb sprained his ankle and had to leave early on. He didn't do an interview and has cancelled his next couple of workouts (Portland was one, not sure of the other) as well. He may come back to return when his ankle is feeling better.

 

- Rivers hurt his ankle as well, but he didn't leave and stuck around for the interviews

 

Some tweets:

 

Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen

Easy to see Barnes' raw skills, even 1-on-none: wonderful looking jumper, tremendous athleticism.

 

Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen

Asked about his draft range, Harry Barnes declared, "two to 14."

 

Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen

So far Barnes, Rivers, Lillard and Marshall have all been very good w/ the media in very distinct ways.

 

Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen

Marshall: insightful; Rivers: prepared; Lillard: honest; Barnes: laid-back

 

Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen

"This is a first-class organization. You've got Yo-ness coming in — is it Yo-ness, Jo-ness?" - Harrison Barnes

 

Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen

Ed Davis said you'd be a better pro than college player. "Oh, I paid Ed on the side to say that."

 

Holly MacKenzie ‏@stackmack

I just want to tell you how awesome Rivers, English and Barnes were, man.

 

Holly MacKenzie ‏@stackmack

Austin Rivers was effusive in his praise about Toronto. Made it very clear that he -and his dad, too- loves this city. Nice to see. #Raptors

 

Holly MacKenzie ‏@stackmack

Rivers says Doc "likes this place and he loves the coach" when asked if his dad had told him anything about Toronto. #Raptors

 

Holly MacKenzie ‏@stackmack

@j85royals I'll send you a link when it goes live. Kim was great. Even after hearing all of the praise, blown away by his professionalism.

 

A quote from Rivers taken from a tweetpic on MacKenzie's twitter page:

 

"I don't really ask too many questions. I let them ask the questions and I just try to be as honest as possible. I just tell them the truth on everything. That way if they really seem to like me they know it is the real me and it is a real fit. I think I had a great interview with Toronto. I don't know what I'm going to be doing the rest of the day, but whatever it is, I'm just going to be real and 100% with them and let them know I love this place. That's one thing I will tell them is that I really do like Toronto. I have a lot of friends that live up here so I think this is a cool place to play and this is somewhere I want to be."

 

Interviews are on the Raptors website if you guys want to check them out.

 

 

Not related to Raptors workouts, but here is a video of Damian Lillard's workout with the Kings. I have to say, the Kings are probably the best team at posting workouts online and have been for the last few years.

 

 

 

That is about all I've got for today. I think the group tomorrow is another 2nd round and undrafted group like yesterday was.

[Check my Stats]

I would guess that our list goes something like Barnes, then Lillard and Rivers. It just annoys me that BC is going to draft a point like that when a guy like Bayless hasn't even been given a fair shot yet.

 

Barnes is the only guy I would be happy to see us trade up for. I am higher on him than most, I think he is going to be a good player in this league, and a legit offensive piece. Plus I don't buy the whole Luol Deng as his ceiling thing, he might not be the same player defensively but his ability to shoot it is going to be huge. As long as you aren't expecting a franchise player, I think Barnes is going to be good for whoever gets him.

[Built Ford Tough]

I would guess that our list goes something like Barnes, then Lillard and Rivers. It just annoys me that BC is going to draft a point like that when a guy like Bayless hasn't even been given a fair shot yet.

 

Barnes is the only guy I would be happy to see us trade up for. I am higher on him than most, I think he is going to be a good player in this league, and a legit offensive piece. Plus I don't buy the whole Luol Deng as his ceiling thing, he might not be the same player defensively but his ability to shoot it is going to be huge. As long as you aren't expecting a franchise player, I think Barnes is going to be good for whoever gets him.

 

I agree that Barnes is at the top of the list and he definitely should be. Problem is that there is absolutely no way that I see him falling any further than 7th. It makes no sense for Golden State to pass on him.

 

That realy is the worst thing about losing that coin toss. It basically eliminated any chance of Toronto having a shot at Barnes. I just don't see a situation in which he falls past Cleveland, Sacramento, Portland and GS, all of which Barnes fills a need.

 

The only thing I could see happening that would make Barnes to Toronto an option is they trade with Portland (assuming they want Lillard) and the first 5 picks go like this:

 

1. Davis

2. Robinson

3. MKG

4. Beal

5. Drummond

 

Raptors then move up to 6th and draft Barnes while Portland moves down to 8th and drafts Lillard. The only way I see Portland trading down like that is if Drummond is gone (likely, as I think Sacramento would take a chance on him at 5) and if they are really high on Lillard and think New Orleans would draft him at 10, eliminating any chance of him being their when they pick 11th.

 

It sucks because Barnes was my favourite college player, playing for my favourite college team and the Raptors were in position to draft him all season long. Then they go and [expletive] it all up during the final two weeks, eliminating any chance of being able to draft him.

 

 

In an unrelated note, the Raptors had a player in for a workout who didn't even know he was in Canada. Casey mentioned it during an interview. Safe to say, that player didn't make a good impression.

[DunkinDerozan]

I am loving all the love these guys are giving to the city of Toronto. I guess some of them might just be saying they love the city just because they'd be happy to be drafted by anyone, but I still like it. Now I just hope some soon to be FA's give the city a chance.

[Built Ford Tough]

The Raptors last big group workout will be on Thursday. It will include a bunch of bigs and they are:

 

Jared Sullinger

Terrence Jones

Perry Jones

John Henson

 

and they are trying to get Jeremy Lamb back to Toronto after his workout was shortened due to rolling his ankle. I'm not sure if he will be there or not.

[Built Ford Tough]

Some info that isn't specifically refering to Toronto (although one does) but if true, will have a large impact on them regardless:

 

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA

Hearing Damian Lillard crushed in Sacramento, and while they need another guard like a hole in the head, they are strongly considering

 

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA

RT @SacServer: ---> what was said is Kings don't see Tyreke as a PG... Isiah is good, but not a tier 1 starter and Jimmer won't pan out

 

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA

RT @SacServer: ---> The best player available to them might be Lillard... I guess you keep drafting till you find one

 

Even though Lillard is in the mix for the Raptors, this could be great for Toronto if Lillard impressed the Kings enough to have them pick him. If the Kings are sold on him, it would open up the potential of a trade up to 5th and the Raptors drafting Barnes, just as long as MKG goes to Cleveland at 4. If Portland is set on Drummond, which isn't a stretch given their need for a big, and the Kings feel they could still get Lillard at 8 (Golden State doesn't seem likely to pick him) then the Raptors may be able to work something out with the Kings for Barnes, who I believe is definitely at the top of Colangelo's list.

 

Barnes cancelling a workout in Sacramento is worth mentioning here as well and could play a factor in this hypothetical situation of mine.

 

Of course nothing is set in stone and more than anything, this is hopeful thinking on my part given how much I like Barnes.

 

 

Now for stuff that directly mentions Toronto:

 

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA

The belief on Dion Waiters is that its Toronto that wants him badly... and that denials or not... he's the Raptors guy at #8.

 

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA

RT @HenrySanchez: makes no sense for Raptors when they have DeRozan already ---> Waiters says he's a point guard

 

Take it for what it is worth. I honestly don't have a real feel for which way Toronto is leaning. I could be convinced that anyone of Lillard, Lamb, Waiters or Rivers are at the top of their board at 8. The only thing I am sure of is that if Barnes were to fall the Raptors would grab in hin a heartbeat, but Barnes won't fall (no way GS passes him up at 7).

 

Could I buy that Waiters if the Raptors guy at 8? Definitely. I could also say the same thing for Lillard, Lamb or Rivers as well.

 

One thing about Waiters, though. He is definitely not a point guard. No way do I see him playing the point in the NBA based on what I've seen from him.

 

EDIT: Just an FYI, Kyler doesn't exactly seem to be the most in touch person around. Hoopsworld has never been considered as the most credible site out there (not saying they make shit up, but they aren't nearly as in the loop as many others) so take all this for what it is worth.

[DunkinDerozan]

I still want Lillard 1st but I'd also be extremely happy with Barnes. I'm happy with pretty much any of Lillard, Barnes, Rivers and even Lamb despite his lack knowledge in interviews. I don't really like Waiters so I hope we don't take him.

[DunkinDerozan]

I still want Lillard 1st but I'd also be extremely happy with Barnes. I'm happy with pretty much any of Lillard, Barnes, Rivers and even Lamb despite his lack knowledge in interviews. I don't really like Waiters so I hope we don't take him.

 

[expletive]ing sucks to know that if we didn't lose that coin flip with GS that we'd have Barnes right now...