NYK 2011/12 General Discussion

[fish7718]

Also, the Knicks are shooting 30.9% on open jumpers. That's incredible.

Peep Jerome Jordans line too

[JYD]

Did anyone even know Josh Harrellson broke his wrist, and is out 6 - 8 weeks?

[fish7718]

Did anyone even know Josh Harrellson broke his wrist, and is out 6 - 8 weeks?

Will hurt us a bit on the defensive side of the ball, I want to see more of Novak anyway though...

[NomarFachix]

Baron practiced today for the first time. Could feasibly play in a game this week, maybe against the Rox.

[JYD]

Novak should play more anyway. He's supposed to be some great shooter; we can't score. Why not play him? And Balkman should get more playing time.

[Legacy]

Baron practiced today for the first time. Could feasibly play in a game this week, maybe against the Rox.

Not enough basketballs on the team for Baron and Melo, not to mention Amar'e.

 

Would you guys say a new coach is needed?

[NomarFachix]

Yes.

[JYD]

Who would coach, though? Woodson? Why would he be some type of upgrade? He's currently on the staff with the other 5 assistant coaches (IDK why they have so many)...

 

But, seriously, who could even replace D'antoni? Phil Jackson ain't interested. So, who else is out there mid-season?

[fish7718]

If there are enough basketballs for LeBron Wade and Bosh we will be alright. I read an article about Baron said he was very rusty and wasn't in great condition. Even when we get him he can only play like 20 minutes a night at most.

[NomarFachix]

Andddddd our franchise player is shooting 39%/31%. Fantastic.

[JYD]

Andddddd our franchise player is shooting 39%/31%. Fantastic.

He's hit a slide. He's been injured. Shooting 30% since getting hurt against MEM, so I definitely think some thought must go towards that. It needs to be acknowledged.

 

I still believe Melo is the least of our problems right now. The lack of a point guard, any type of respectable role players (TD23 never ceases to amaze; and not in a good way), and Stoudemire are far more pressing issues IMO.

[NomarFachix]

I still believe Melo is the least of our problems right now. The lack of a point guard, any type of respectable role players (TD23 never ceases to amaze; and not in a good way), and Stoudemire are far more pressing issues IMO.

You have got to be kidding me. There is a bigger issue than the superstar we traded our roster for taking 20 shots a game and making them at a 39% rate? Simply cannot agree with you.

[JYD]

You have got to be kidding me. There is a bigger issue than the superstar we traded our roster for taking 20 shots a game and making them at a 39% rate? Simply cannot agree with you.

Dude, you are taking it to another level with the Melo hate. He's undoubtedly been bad the past, what, 10 games shooting the ball? But, in the past two games he's passed far more, and he still is your main gripe.

 

Come to grips that Melo is NOT the issue right now. The guy can't seem to win with the fans. He put up 14 shots last night, didn't shoot well, but he passed and deferred A LOT (which is seemingly what you want, right?) and he still gets blamed. How about looking for guys like Douglas, Stoudemire, Walker, Fields, Shumpert, etc. to step their game up and contribute?

[NomarFachix]

Dude, you are taking it to another level with the Melo hate. He's undoubtedly been bad the past, what, 10 games shooting the ball? But, in the past two games he's passed far more, and he still is your main gripe.

Melo hate? I'm not hating.. I'm being objective. I'm merely not going to be an apologist. I'm calling a spade a spade.

 

Come to grips that Melo is NOT the issue right now. The guy can't seem to win with the fans. He put up 14 shots last night, didn't shoot well, but he passed and deferred A LOT (which is seemingly what you want, right?) and he still gets blamed.

Deferred 'ALOT'? He had the 2nd most shots on the team at 36% made. Deferring a lot is taking the 2nd most shots on the team?

 

Look, our entire team was blown up for the guy because he's a prolific scorer who was supposed to carry this team. Is he free of criticism when he's at 39% FG for the season? He was brought in here for a reason. We gave up 3 (arguably 4) starters for him. Shouldn't we expect him to provide a little more to the team than he is?

 

He is 101st of 111 qualified players in the entire NBA in FG% and taking by far the most FG per game of any of the players below him. He plays no defense. He doesn't hustle. So why does he get a pass? What does he do well right now that he should be free of any criticism on the court? He's the least efficient player on our team taking the most shots and relied upon for the majority of our scoring.. and he's NOT our main issue? Come on dude. Stop apologizing for the guy.

 

The guy is supposed to be a top offensive player in the NBA, alongside the likes of Durant/Dirk/Bron/Wade/Kobe/etc etc etc etc etc etc. He hasn't been.

 

How about looking for guys like Douglas, Stoudemire, Walker, Fields, Shumpert, etc. to step their game up and contribute?

Past 4 games, STAT is shooting 49% (26-53). Push it to the past 6, he's at 45% (37-82). Landry Fields over the past 5 is sitting at a blistering 56% (29-52).

 

The other three you listed.. a 21 year old rookie guard whose forte was never offense and two complete scrubs. These are the guys you're putting more stock into than Carmelo Anthony? (FWIW, Bill Walker is shooting at a higher clip than Melo.. LOL).

 

If LeBron James ever shot 6-20 every game for a month, there is a 0% chance that people would say "yeah, well he's not the main problem.. Eddie House hasn't been doing very much." It'd be inexcusable, as it is here.

[JYD]

The fact you completely ignore the fact that he's been battling several injuries is crazy to me. I know you, as a fan, don't want to hear excuses, but your ignorance to acknowledge the fact that it CLEARLY is effecting his play is really blowing my mind. And to say Melo is not hustling is taking it to far, I think Melo shows a good effort night in and night out. Does he always play well? No, absolutely not. Is he always a good defender? No. But, he is been a good rebounder for most of the season, he had 11 rbs the other night, and he had six assists last night.

 

And when I said "he's defering," I meant that he is not taking as many shots the past two games (21 total the past two games)...and he is giving the ball up, just like you wanted. Last night, it still didn't work out at all. So how much of it is just to blame on Melo? Some, absolutely, he NEEDS to play better. But to put it solely on Carmelo Anthony, who, let's be honest, they may not have ANY wins if he didn't play well in some of the earlier games this season, is taking it too far. And the Knicks are awful for the most part when he's not on the court. As a matter of fact, there was a stretch in the game, I think it may have been right before the half last night, where I was like WOW, they have no scored in about 10 minutes (real time, not game time) and I think the Cavs went on like a 14-1 run or something. He wasn't in the game, the ball was moving, they were still getting horendous looks and Amar'e could knock down a thing.

 

Then in the 4th quarter, he passed the ball several times, and no one hit a shot and no one stepped up and did a thing. The team went 3/20 on 3's...Yes some of that is Melo, but he only took 3 three pointers, and when do other guys get blamed for not knocking down shots?

Edited January 26, 2012 by JYD

[JYD]

Then he needs to sit. Didn't read the rest of it. It's all solved after one line.

Lol...He sits, we lose. How was the effort in the Thunder game? We looked pretty solid without him. You know, the ball moved, everyone was hustling.

[NomarFachix]

The fact you completely ignore the fact that he's been battling several injuries is crazy to me. I know you, as a fan, don't want to hear excuses, but your ignorance to acknowledge the fact that it CLEARLY is effecting his play is really blowing my mind.

I never once denied that he was hurt. But, if he's hurt to he point where he's the most ineffective player on the court and he's making our team dramatically worse, he needs to sit. If he's not, he needs to make shots.

 

If you're going to play, play at a high level. If not, hit the [expletive]ing tub and do some kegel exercises. You're killing us.

 

And to say Melo is not hustling is taking it to far, I think Melo shows a good effort night in and night out. Does he always play well? No, absolutely not. Is he always a good defender? No. But, he is been a good rebounder for most of the season, he had 11 rbs the other night, and he had six assists last night.

Melo's hustle is something that's always been questioned, and it hasn't changed since he joined the New York Knickerbockers.

 

And when I said "he's defering," I meant that he is not taking as many shots the past two games (21 total the past two games)...and he is giving the ball up, just like you wanted.

7 was fine. 14 was not. Open shots were fine, contested leaners were not.

 

Last night, it still didn't work out at all. So how much of it is just to blame on Melo? Some, absolutely, he NEEDS to play better. But to put it solely on Carmelo Anthony, who, let's be honest, they may not have ANY wins if he didn't play well in some of the earlier games this season, is taking it too far. And the Knicks are awful for the most part when he's not on the court. As a matter of fact, there was a stretch in the game, I think it may have been right before the half last night, where I was like WOW, they have no scored in about 10 minutes (real time, not game time) and I think the Cavs went on like a 14-1 run or something. He wasn't in the game, the ball was moving, they were still getting horendous looks and Amar'e could knock down a thing.

He was a team worst -13 last night.

 

The guy we're relying on for a large majority of our offensive has been our least productive player. I'm not sure how to make you realize that that is our biggest issue.. but.. it is.

 

Then in the 4th quarter, he passed the ball several times, and no one hit a shot and no one stepped up and did a thing. The team went 3/20 on 3's...Yes some of that is Melo, but he only took 3 three pointers, and when do other guys get blamed for not knocking down shots?

You saw him making some passes, and I saw him taking contested, fadeaway jumpers that led to long rebounds and odd number breaks the other way. I guess we're looking for different things.. I also had the game turned off after the 3rd because I couldn't stomach what I was watching.

 

On the topic of "they weren't making shots either".. the other guys you're listing are scrubs. They were signed on veteran minimum contracts. The other guys aren't supposed to perform in the way that Carmelo Anthony is. We gave up all of our talent and a max contract for him. He is held to a higher standard than Toney [expletive]ing Douglas.

 

Like I said.. a Heat loss off a LeBron James 6-20 shooting performance is on him, not Eddie House. Especially if he's un-Bron and doesn't play defense, hustle, or do any of his other superior intangibles.

[NomarFachix]

Lol...He sits, we lose. How was the effort in the Thunder game? We looked pretty solid without him. You know, the ball moved, everyone was hustling.

Really?

 

Score 92 against the 15-3 Thunder and lose by 12 without Melo, or score 81 against the 7-10 Cavaliers and lose by 10 with Melo. You choose.

[NomarFachix]

In positive Knicks news, Toney Douglas' $2+M option was picked up for next season

[JYD]

You do realize that Melo is Melo, right? He's been playing the same style with since he came into the League? He takes questionable shots, he's a scorer. That's virtually all he does. He's a good rebounder, average passer (sick of hearing he's some type of terrific playmaker), and consistently a mediocre defender with the ability to play better defense when he's up for it in big spots. He takes a lot of shots. You gotta deal with the times when he's hit a stretch where they are not going in and times when he's battling injuries. part of sports. maybe u never played? idk. It's funny cuz once those shots start going in again, i don't want any dick riding or anything comin out your mouth bro

 

Really?

 

Score 92 against the 15-3 Thunder and lose by 12 without Melo, or score 81 against the 7-10 Cavaliers and lose by 10 with Melo. You choose.

The Thunder game, if I recall correctly was a 30 point game at one point? The game was never that close.

 

In positive Knicks news, Toney Douglas' $2+M option was picked up for next season

How's that positive? He's A-W-F-U-L.

Edited January 26, 2012 by JYD

[NomarFachix]

You do realize that Melo is Melo, right? He's been playing the same style with since he came into the League? He takes questionable shots, he's a scorer. That's virtually all he does.

But he's not doing it. Therein lies the problem.

 

He takes a lot of shots. You gotta deal with the times when he's hit a stretch where they are not going in and times when he's battling injuries. part of sports.

101st of 111 qualified shooters in the NBA will never be alright with me. It shouldn't be alright with you. If he's in this stretch and battling injuries.. again, go do your kegels and sit in the tub. Get healthy. Get to a point where you aren't a complete negative for your teammates and fans. If you're going to play, you're saying you're alright to go out there and perform.

 

part of sports. maybe u never played?

Played college baseball, high school basketball.

 

idk. It's funny cuz once those shots start going in again, i don't want any dick riding or anything comin out your mouth bro

Why not? I'm not saying Carmelo Anthony is a horrendous basketball player, I'm saying that he's playing horrendous basketball. The moment he stops playing horrendous basketball I have no problems. It will be a great day.

 

The Thunder game, if I recall correctly was a 30 point game at one point? The game was never that close.

It was a 12 point loss. Cavs game (similarly not that close) was a 10 point loss. Facts.

 

How's that positive? He's A-W-F-U-L.

Sarcasm.

[JYD]

My point is that Melo has hit a terrible stretch, no doubt, but he'll bounce back. Let's stop acting like he won't.

 

Lol. The Cavs and Thunder losses were not at all similar. Come on now. SMH

Edited January 26, 2012 by JYD

[Nitro]

The wrist injury is no excuse. Jumpshooting has never been his strongest asset as a scorer, and when he has a wrist injury he should be ruthlessly attacking the rim and getting to the FT line 10+ times a game. He's not doing that. And JYD, you said he doesn't do anything else besides score...he's getting paid max money in the city of New York. Anything less than him either giving his 25PPG on good efficiency or doing a lot of other things to help his team win when he isn't scoring should be unacceptable. Period. No excuses, not for a player whose team and fanbase has invested so much money and mental exhaustion in.

[JYD]

The wrist injury is no excuse. Jumpshooting has never been his strongest asset as a scorer, and when he has a wrist injury he should be ruthlessly attacking the rim and getting to the FT line 10+ times a game. He's not doing that. And JYD, you said he doesn't do anything else besides score...he's getting paid max money in the city of New York. Anything less than him either giving his 25PPG on good efficiency or doing a lot of other things to help his team win when he isn't scoring should be unacceptable. Period. No excuses, not for a player whose team and fanbase has invested so much money and mental exhaustion in.

It's been like 8 games...LOL. He was very good when he was here all of last season. No training camp this year, he started solid with a good game vs. Boston, and other games sprinkled in. Now he had a back, wrist, ankle injury, and after like 10 games there's no excuses for his poor play and we've invested so much that this is unacceptable? Come on now, he's had a rough stretch. Now doubt about it. He's tried to change the way he's playing the past two games. We played the Bobcats, it worked. The others contributed the way the team was expected to coming into this season, and we win big. Last night, he shoots just 14 times, doesn't score well at all, distributes six assists and the team still can't elevate their games and get a win. It's not all on Melo, and it's been a bad 10 games. All I'm saying is people need to calm down. Basketball is a long season and when (or IF is really the question) we get better PG play, better Amar'e and a healthy Melo we will once again see a top NBA scorer and hopefully an improved playmaker and defensive player. That is my point and I can't continue to repeat myself here when you guys are overreacting to the 10 games and blaming it all on one player when Amar'e Stoudemire has been absolutely AWFUL.

[Nitro]

I never said he was their only problem, or even biggest problem. I never said he won't get out of this slump. But giving him a pass for poor play is my issue, and it is without a doubt a reason the team is losing. The Knicks have been shit for so long, spent the last few years of the '00's making sure their roster would be gutted for 2010, spent much of last season in limbo because of the Melo trade, and then finally got him and are paying him max money. If you just give him a pass and accept when he doesn't play well, you are doing yourself an injustice as a fan. They've spent 10 years of suffering to get to this point, where they have some high quality talent and a chance to make some splash in the playoffs. If I were a Knicks fan, I'd be angry with the way Melo has played this season (and Amare as well).