If anyone thinks Baron Davis is going to save the Knicks...

[JYD]

That could be one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard, and here's why.

 

First of all, you're talking about a guy that has a bad back. Old + bad back = lingering problems. Who knows when he will come back, and how long he'll be able to play! He could go down at any time!!

 

Secondly, yes, he's an upgrade over LF2 and TD23 (WHO ISN'T?) but this is not a 25 year old Baron Davis. He's definitely NOT washed up, but he is not that tremendous. Can he play any defense at this point? That's just as much as a glaring need as running the point from an offensive standpoint.

 

Also, let's say he comes back mid Feb. At this pace, the Knicks could be in a 7th-8th seed spot. And what if it takes him 10-15 games to gel with the current rotation? That's time the Knicks don't have in a 66 game season!

 

And lastly, the Knicks future hinges on far more than Davis. Douglas and Fields will still need to be WAY better for them to be a top 4 team in the East.

 

The Knicks can turn this around. Baron Davis CAN help, and will surely help. But let's not act like they'll be a top team with Baron Davis, injured back and all, at the helm. That's just flat out false.

Edited January 5, 2012 by JYD

[Sħãlïq™]

Šhãłïq couldn't agree more.

[NomarFachix]

Baron can penetrate and create, and he's no slouch passing the ball. He's dynamic.

 

Fields is a non-factor, and TD23 can't go more than 5 steps before picking up his dribble.

 

He's not going to help defensively, but his veteran swagger and his ability to create on offense will be a very welcomed sight. Make sure Shumpert is in the game when Baron is, stick him on the better of the two guards, and let Baron handle the other. His offensive creativity will outweigh his defensive shortcomings for certain.

[JYD]

He will help, he brings positives to the table i agree with that ^

 

but the Knicks are not a top team in the east, even with him. the team is far more than one 32 year old baron davis away

Edited January 5, 2012 by JYD

[NomarFachix]

Absolutely, especially with no training camp, no chemistry, a terrible coach, no bench, and some diva mentalities. It's going to be a process.

[JYD]

Absolutely, especially with no training camp, no chemistry, a terrible coach, no bench, and some diva mentalities. It's going to be a process.

sick of the no TC..all teams are going through the same. the coach is fine i think too

[NomarFachix]

Yeah all teams going through it but our team philosophy changed overnight, between Melo and Chandler, a new defensive scheme/coach, etc etc. I think we'll be better with a full year together and then an offseason, with some key pieces added in the offseason.

 

D'Antoni.. can't defend the guy. He gets nothing out of this team. Guys aren't playing hard, aren't listening, etc. Not digging it.

[fish7718]

The coach is fine? The guy is supposed to be an offensive guru, have you seen our offense? It's predicated on guys making their own shots, there are no plays. Not to mention the players aren't even motivated to play until they are down by double digits late in the game, that's the coaches fault.

 

Baron Davis is by no means a savior and no ever thought him out to be one, but like iMan said when he ncomes back he can help out or offense tremendously. D'antoni's system with a decent PG the Knicks were a top 5 offense with Chris Duhon, Q Rich, and Tim Thomas playing large roles. Baron Davis, Melo, Stat, and co. should easily be the #1 offense in the league with this system. Defense is a whole nother issue, Melo and Stat need to hustle and d'antoni has to make it clear to them by benching them or something.

[Real Deal]

D'Antoni is a problem, and so is the lack of role players. What do we know about Mike? He does not coach defense, and he favors an uptempo game.

 

Carmelo and Amare need Nash, not Baron. They need a guard that will let them dominate the ball, and when possible, run pick and rolls and create for them.

 

Baron Davis will need to dominate the ball to be effective. He can't shoot like Nash (who is one of the best shooting PG's in NBA history), doesn't make decisions like Steve,and he can't play off the ball that well, either.

 

Defensively, I'm not sure if the Knicks will ever be good. Melo doesn't play it, Amare sure the hell doesn't defend (never has), and having Chandler and Shumpert won't make up for any of that (and I actually thought it would, even a little). Baron Davis on defense? Don't be excited.

 

My biggest question is: what the hell happened to Landry Fields? He was looking pretty damn good at one point last season, and then he just hit rock bottom.

[JYD]

D'Antoni is a problem, and so is the lack of role players. What do we know about Mike? He does not coach defense, and he favors an uptempo game.

 

Carmelo and Amare need Nash, not Baron. They need a guard that will let them dominate the ball, and when possible, run pick and rolls and create for them.

 

Baron Davis will need to dominate the ball to be effective. He can't shoot like Nash (who is one of the best shooting PG's in NBA history), doesn't make decisions like Steve,and he can't play off the ball that well, either.

 

Defensively, I'm not sure if the Knicks will ever be good. Melo doesn't play it, Amare sure the hell doesn't defend (never has), and having Chandler and Shumpert won't make up for any of that (and I actually thought it would, even a little). Baron Davis on defense? Don't be excited.

 

My biggest question is: what the hell happened to Landry Fields? He was looking pretty damn good at one point last season, and then he just hit rock bottom.

 

I'll start off by addressing the Landry Fields statement RD...

 

Fields is a player who needs to play WITHOUT the ball to be effective (quite the contrary to how A. most of the NBA is played and B. how most of the star players play) he does not fit in with Melo, who wants him to clear out so he can iso. Fields was geting 2-3 easy layups last season with backdoor cuts, slipping to the hoop, etc. and having guys like chandler, gallo and felton especially find him....that no longer happens. amar'e can't pass, the way the offense is set up, melo doesn't pass, and no true PG means Fields is useless on the court. he's NOT a good shooter as far as starting NBA 2 guards go, and he is rebounding like he used to. his style unfortunately does not fit with amar'e and melo. it really sucks that walsh didn't see that last year and did not include him in the deal and let us hold on to a guy like chandler or gallo instead.

 

Quick comment about davis: some people do actually think Baron Davis is going to make a HUGE difference. I keep hearing "the season doesn't start til baron comes back." about a week ago I thought that may be true.. then i watched the past few games and realized, that's not the case. he wont have near the impact i once hoped.

 

Secondly, RD is spot on in virtually everything he just posted here above. I think D'Antoni could be a good coach. Does he have a great philiosophy? No. Is it a "win a championship with this mentality" NO. BUT, D'antoni has proven he can coach a team. Ok, he had 50 win teams in PHX. He can coach a team with Melo, Amare and Chandler. They should be a pretty good team. I never thought this roster could win a championship, and we are so [expletive]ing far from it it's ridiculous it's even being brought up. but can he coach this team effectively to a top 4 seed? come on now, yes he can.

 

He was livid last night with the D. What do you want him to do? He's not playing out there. The plyers will either give effort or they won't. IDK what people expect out of D'antoni. What about Woodson? Does he suck now because our defense was awful last night and he's sitting on the bench labeled as sometype of defensive guru...

 

The NBA's coaches are far overrated as far as the impact is concerned (compared to the NFL for example). What league other than the NBA could a guy like MARK JACKSON just walk in and be a HC? NO coaching experience. That's crazy! No way a guy like Amani Toomer from the giants could walk in and be a head coach for the Seattle Seahawks, for example...

 

So do I think d'antoni is our main problem?! Hell no! Right now he's not the perfect fit because we don't have a PG like RD said to run his style...and that's on our player personel guys to find someone who can effectively pass and distribute the ball. there's gotta be someone out there (mike bibby? really?)

Edited January 5, 2012 by JYD

[Nitro]

He was livid last night with the D. What do you want him to do? He's not playing out there. The plyers will either give effort or they won't. IDK what people expect out of D'antoni.

 

Defense is more than just effort, although the Knicks haven't given any effort on that side of the ball this season (besides Chandler, Walker and Shumpert). When you got guys like Melo and Amare, who have been in the league nearly 10 seasons, and they have NEVER learned strong defensive principles, it takes coaching to get them up to par. They have the necessary tools to be elite, but just have no defensive awareness. Chandler has actually done his job so far this season, but so many times I've seen him give up easy plays because he looks shocked that his help hadn't made the proper rotation. Or, what I've seen so many times, is Chandler go to alter a shot, and the other team get an easy putback because Amare gave up and didn't put a body on a man for the rebound. Besides the effort, which the coach has to get out of his players, the team just doesn't look prepared defensively. And when they finally do try to clamp down, the other team is so hot from the field that they are hitting fadeaway 3's with a hand in their face.

 

The biggest issue with this current team and D'Antoni is that they are truly a halfcourt team. The backcourt is untalented and too one-dimensional as far as starting backcourts go, Melo is strictly an iso players, Amare is strictly an iso player without a good playmaking PG, and Chandler is completely dependant on other players creating shots for him. They are 110% built to be a halfcourt team, and that is not D'Antoni's style, especially with Toney Douglas as his PG. And if they are built for that, then D'Antoni is pretty much useless offensively, and we all know he is completely useless defensively. He is simply a bad fit.

 

As for Baron Davis, I thought before the season started that he'd be a huge factor if he can come back and be what he was last year with the Clippers. As iMan mentioned, he's dynamic, and that is something that no other backcourt player for the Knicks offers. He can score in multiple ways, can back down smaller PG's, can effectively run the PnR, run the fastbreak, and when he wants to he can make the kind of passes that Douglas and Bibby can only dream of. He'd definitely give the offense a new dimension, and could make them a lot more difficult to defend. When he's motivated and has pieces around him, he can still be a difference-maker. He won't make them championship caliber, but can bring the Knicks closer to the high expectations they had surrounding them heading into this year.

[NomarFachix]

+1, phenomenal post. Been missing you, Nitro!

[fish7718]

It's not so much that Fields has played bad it's more so that he's just been off, he's missing the spot up 3's he knocked with ease last year, he missing shots downlow that he hit all the time last year against smaller 2 guards, he's dropping passes he taking guys of the dribble and making bad decisions with the ball, he's getting beat on D by guys he should be able to shut down. Fields is just off, not sure what it is, but I think if you let him work through it he will back to his old self soon enough. A lot like Amar'e is off too right now, I haven't seen Amar'e shoot this poorly since joining the Knicks.

[Nitro]

It's not so much that Fields has played bad it's more so that he's just been off, he's missing the spot up 3's he knocked with ease last year, he missing shots downlow that he hit all the time last year against smaller 2 guards, he's dropping passes he taking guys of the dribble and making bad decisions with the ball, he's getting beat on D by guys he should be able to shut down. Fields is just off, not sure what it is, but I think if you let him work through it he will back to his old self soon enough. A lot like Amar'e is off too right now, I haven't seen Amar'e shoot this poorly since joining the Knicks.

 

Fields has been a slump since January of last season...a full year. 3 of the first 4 months last season he averaged double digit points, averaged over 7RPG, and shot over 50% from the field. His numbers have dipped every month since. As a starter he averaged less than 2PPG and 2RPG and shot 20% from the field in the playoffs against the Celtics. This year he has a TS% of .498 (awful), and he's at only 3RPG.

 

Those are just the numbers. From the eye test, last season the one thing I loved about him was his rebounding...he was legit arguably the best rebounding SG in the game. Since the middle of last season, that's gone down and down. He never did it on athleticism, he did it with smarts and hustle. It's almost like he's given up, and that has affected how he mentally goes about the game. Offensively he is not the greatest shooter and can't create off the dribble...offensively, that simply doesn't cut it from a starter on a playoff team. Another issue is his defense. He's slow-footed and just doesn't have great instincts on that side of the ball, and in the playoffs he'll be matched up against Wade, Hamilton, Joe Johnson, Ray Allen, etc... Any of those matchups he will be murdered.

 

Bottom line is he just doesn't have the talent necessary to be a starter on this team. His talents are much more suited for the bench, and I think without the added pressure of being a starter would benefit him mentally. He'd be more inclined to play to his strengths rather than fit in with the star-studded starting lineup.

[fish7718]

I actually agree, Fields is a bench player imho. This is another reason why Baron Davis coming back is going to be good for us. We can start Shump or Douglas at the 2.

 

Knicks really failed in FA this year not bringing another 2 guard, I still think we should go get Bogans....

[Nitro]

I actually agree, Fields is a bench player imho. This is another reason why Baron Davis coming back is going to be good for us. We can start Shump or Douglas at the 2.

 

Agree with Shumpert. Douglas is wayyyyyy too small to be a SG.

 

Knicks really failed in FA this year not bringing another 2 guard, I still think we should go get Bogans....

 

There's a reason he hasn't been picked up yet, and why the Bulls were so desperate to get Hamilton. He's a career 39% scorer, 35% from beyond the arc, and can't do nothing off the dribble. He's a very good defender, but like Fields, he's a bench player.

[NomarFachix]

I pray to the jelly Gods that J.R. Smith wants to come in for the mini MLE when he's released from Chinese captivity. It's not until March, but still.

 

Looking back at the offseason, there really were no fits at the 2 guard who would've signed for the mini-MLE. Jamal made it clear he wanted more, DeShawn wasn't a fit, Mo Evans may not have played over Fields/Shump/Walker.. Grant Hill would have been a phenomenal fit, but hopes for him were lost when we got Chandler. Shawne Williams was lost when we were waiting on Crawford, who played like he was considering the 50% offer for a long while.

 

I'm sure something works itself out. If not, it's a priority for next year with a full MLE in the offseason.

[fish7718]

Maybe Chandler will come back at the 2.5 E just because he loves NY

[JYD]

what about tyson + amar'e for dwight howard

 

just a thought

Edited January 6, 2012 by JYD

[The Next Knick]

I haven't read most of this so correct me if this has been said. I think our only problem right now is chemistry, we're facing sub-par teams, and we're not just playing crappy basketball. We don't seem to have much depth, I don't see D'antoni working in our bench as fluently as he was in the first game, and this seems to be the same "luck" ball we've played over the last couple of years. We simply cannot rely on our three point shooting as much as we have.