Andrew Bynum > Kobe Bryant

[FindingNeemo]

It is clear to me Andrew Bynum(as long as he is healthy) he is clearly the best player on the Lakers and far superior to Kobe Bryant. Hell Gasol is better than Kobe Bryant at this point. I have seen enough of Kobe Bryant this season to determine he is an inefficient player that takes a ton of shots to get x amount of points. Nearly all of his points come from low percentage fadaways/fallbacks/contested jumpshots and although Kobe Bryant has the skill to make them SOMETIMES, the Lakers would be a way better team if they operated the offense primarily through Bynum or Gasol. Very few teams have a guy that is capable of stopping Andrew Bynum and his shot attempts are much cleaner attempts than Kobe. Kobe needs to defer to Bynum or the Lakers will miss the playoffs/get swept in the first round.

 

Not to mention Bynum is a behemoth defensively and on the boards while Kobe is hidden on some random shooter that camps the three point line. Kobe Bryant is definetly the most overrated player in sports.

[Check my Stats]

http://images.psxextreme.com/wallpapers/psp/Finding_Nemo_2.jpg Edited February 7, 2012 by Check my Stats

[Real Deal]

Kobe needs to defer to Bynum or the Lakers will miss the playoffs/get swept in the first round.

Ah, like Kobe did against Portland not too long ago, when the Blazers decided to double Drew the second half of the game and tore Bynum up.

 

And this is coming from you, who lists his favorite player as Manu Ginobili, who has a lower career FG% than Kobe...the guy you say has bad efficiency (yeah, I know you don't like Manu...).

 

I won't bother with this topic. Reading back on your other posts, and seeing all of your posts coming from multiple proxy servers (meaning, you're using something like Hide My Ass), I can tell you're trolling.

[htownborn]

While I agree that the Lakers should probably go to Bynum a bit more I have to disagree with saying Kobe is the problem. The problem is clearly that they have 37 year old Derek Fisher running PG along with 2 rookies backing him up and an injured Steve Blake. Every time the Lakers play an elite PG they are usually dominated at that position. Not to mention the Lakers have had a pretty shitty bench this season. They traded Lamar Odom and it's really hurting them and with Blake out now Metta World Peace is now their best bench player and he's having the worst statistical season he's ever had despite coming of the bench. I believe there was even a game where their bench scored under 10 points correct me if I'm wrong. It also wouldn't hurt to get a backup SG so that Kobe won't have to play nearly 40 minutes a night.

Edited February 7, 2012 by htownborn

[Real Deal]

While I agree that the Lakers should probably go to Bynum a bit more I have to disagree with saying Kobe is the problem. The problem is clearly that they have 37 year old Derek Fisher running PG along with 2 rookies backing him up and an injured Steve Blake. Every time the Lakers play an elite PG they are usually dominated at that position. Not to mention the Lakers have had a pretty shitty bench this season. They traded Lamar Odom and it's really hurting them and with Blake out now Metta World Peace is now their best bench player and he's having the worst statistical season he's ever had despite coming of the bench. I believe there was even a game where their bench scored under 10 points correct me if I'm wrong. It also wouldn't hurt to get a backup SG so that Kobe won't have to play nearly 40 minutes a night.

Four points, lol.

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201201130LAL.html

[htownborn]

Four points, lol.

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201201130LAL.html

 

I thought so lol, that's just terrible

Edited February 7, 2012 by htownborn

[Nitro]

Andrew Bynum better than Kobe? No. If he learned to calm down in the post and make the right basketball decision (i.e the occasional pass to an open teammate), you could make the case. But right now? Hell no. And yes, he does get most all his points on difficult, inefficient shots, but he actually puts it all together at respectable efficiency. Not LeBron/Durant efficiency, and not AI/Arenas inefficiency.

 

As for him being the most overrated player in sports...it depends. He either tends to be criminally overrated (people who say he's the best player ever), or criminally underrated (people who say he's barely top 15 all-time, or worse). The truth lies somewhere in the middle. On a site like this, run by a huge Kobe fan and populated by a bunch of Lakers fans, people probably think I'm a Kobe hater, and on a site like RealGM they think I'm a homer. I try to keep things in perspective as much as possible.

 

BTW- Manu is consistently more efficient than Kobe. Actually, he's usually one of the most efficient offensive players in the league.

[Real Deal]

BTW- Manu is consistently more efficient than Kobe. Actually, he's usually one of the most efficient offensive players in the league.

Yes, Manu is actually more efficient than MJ, according to the world-renowned TS%. I'm pretty sure the OP is looking at FG% and trolling.

[Sħãlïq™]

Yes, Manu is actually more efficient than MJ, according to the world-renowned TS%. I'm pretty sure the OP is looking at FG% and trolling.

Word. Manu is so overrated. <_<

[Nitro]

Word. Manu is so overrated. <_<

 

Explain. And please be thorough, so I can meticulously rip your reasoning apart section by section.

[ChosenOne]

Explain. And please be thorough, so I can meticulously rip your reasoning apart section by section.

 

Lmfao!

[Real Deal]

Word. Manu is so overrated. <_>

Haha, I wasn't saying he was overrated. I think Ginobili has been huge for the Spurs during their title runs...most visible when he was injured, really, and I never did question his All-NBA spot (although I know a lot of people did).

 

At full health and in his prime, Ginobili was a nasty two-guard to have to deal with, and third behind Kobe and Wade all of those years.

[Teletopez]

Lol.

 

The reality is that the Nets are just an awful team(probably the worst team in the league with Washington) and it's going to be pretty funny when Deron Williams ends up leaving that team and their investment that they gave up all those assets for will have produced nothing. Just an awful team.

[FindingNeemo]

Ah, like Kobe did against Portland not too long ago, when the Blazers decided to double Drew the second half of the game and tore Bynum up.

 

And this is coming from you, who lists his favorite player as Manu Ginobili, who has a lower career FG% than Kobe...the guy you say has bad efficiency (yeah, I know you don't like Manu...).

 

I won't bother with this topic. Reading back on your other posts, and seeing all of your posts coming from multiple proxy servers (meaning, you're using something like Hide My Ass), I can tell you're trolling.

 

Trolling? So having an unpopular NBA opinion is trolling now? Kobe Bryant is overrated and it might pain someone who has him listed as their favorite player to read it, but it is the truth.

 

Kobe no longer possesses the athletisicm and speed to get enough easy points, which means the Lakers are destined to fail this year. Feel free to quote me on this come playoff time, but I guarantee the Lakers get owned early on in the playoffs as long as Kobe goes for his 30 PPG while chasing the scoring title.

 

Andrew Bynum makes 10x the defensive impact Kobe makes and is a much more efficient offensive player. The only thing holding him back is touches which is hard with Kobe shooting 20+ times a game. Kobe is nothing more than a fadaway jumpshooter at this point in his career. It might look nice when it goes in, but it doesn't go in nearly enough for it to warrant priority over a Bynum deep catch and dunk or Gasol post up.

Andrew Bynum better than Kobe? No. If he learned to calm down in the post and make the right basketball decision (i.e the occasional pass to an open teammate), you could make the case. But right now? Hell no. And yes, he does get most all his points on difficult, inefficient shots, but he actually puts it all together at respectable efficiency. Not LeBron/Durant efficiency, and not AI/Arenas inefficiency.

 

As for him being the most overrated player in sports...it depends. He either tends to be criminally overrated (people who say he's the best player ever), or criminally underrated (people who say he's barely top 15 all-time, or worse). The truth lies somewhere in the middle. On a site like this, run by a huge Kobe fan and populated by a bunch of Lakers fans, people probably think I'm a Kobe hater, and on a site like RealGM they think I'm a homer. I try to keep things in perspective as much as possible.

 

BTW- Manu is consistently more efficient than Kobe. Actually, he's usually one of the most efficient offensive players in the league.

 

Sure he is. Bynum has a very nice post game and is IMPOSSIBLE TO GUARD 1 on 1 in the post. When he catches the ball he needs to get doubled immediately, BEFORE he puts the ball on the floor or he is going to dunk on your face. The passing is the one aspect of his game that could use improvement yes, but it will come with experience. It's hard to prove you worth as a passer when Kobe takes 24 shots a game and only averages 29. Bynum? 17 on 12 shots which is HALF as much as Kobe. Why any team would want some dude taking fadaway jumpshots over the 2nd best bigman in the game getting quality looks/dunks down low is a joke in itself. Kobe can no longer get to the rim consistantly or find easy looks. All of his shots are tough and that isn't how you win games. Enjoy the sportscenter highlights Laker fans, there sure as hell won't be any postseason success at this rate.

 

Not to mention Bynum is great defensively. While Kobe conserves his energy guarding guys like James Jones and Kyle Korver at the three point line so he can jack up more shots offensively, Bynum does a great job keeping guys out of the paint and altering EVERY shot that opposing teams get in there. The guy is massive and really anchors that defense.

 

Kobe is top 10 all-time but near the end of that list. It isn't overrating or underrating him. It is what he is. Around 9th all time or so.

 

Yeah great to see someone that recognizes Manu. He still is a great player, but not at the level he was in the mid 00's. Guy gives his all out there and is one of the smartest players period. Never makes a dumb play.

 

Lol.

 

Uhm ok? Are you still butthurt that you had to leave that discussion because I dominated that thread like Bynum in the paint?

[Real Deal]

Trolling? So having an unpopular NBA opinion is trolling now? Kobe Bryant is overrated and it might pain someone who has him listed as their favorite player to read it, but it is the truth.

Yes, you're trolling. Why not post from your actual IP address, instead of using 18 different proxies? Anyway...

 

Kobe no longer possesses the athletisicm and speed to get enough easy points, which means the Lakers are destined to fail this year. Feel free to quote me on this come playoff time, but I guarantee the Lakers get owned early on in the playoffs as long as Kobe goes for his 30 PPG while chasing the scoring title.

Kobe had lost a lot of that speed and athleticism back in 2009, his fourth championship...and that carried over into 2010, his fifth.

 

Why would I quote you? The Lakers are going to struggle for far more reasons than Kobe Bryant. You wouldn't look that impressive with a prediction like that, especially after they were swept by the champs last year. Not much of a reach.

 

Andrew Bynum makes 10x the defensive impact Kobe makes and is a much more efficient offensive player. The only thing holding him back is touches which is hard with Kobe shooting 20+ times a game. Kobe is nothing more than a fadaway jumpshooter at this point in his career. It might look nice when it goes in, but it doesn't go in nearly enough for it to warrant priority over a Bynum deep catch and dunk or Gasol post up.

A Bynum deep catch and DUNK? Haha, you don't watch the Lakers, I assume. Gasol posting up? Would you like for me to provide all of his shot charts?

 

Better yet, would you like to step outside of your trollfest and explain to us all the basics of Mike Brown's offense, and why Gasol does NOT post up as much as he should? Would you like to explain Gasol's quote, that he was going to shoot more threes this season?

 

Oh, this one is good: you want Drew to get more touches? At one point, Bynum was attempting 16 FGA/G. That was more than ANYONE that has teamed with Kobe since the 2002-03 season (Shaq), and even in 2003-04, Shaq didn't attempt 16 shots a night.

 

What were the Lakers doing with Drew shooting all of those attempts? They were playing the same way. The Lakers are 5-2 when Drew takes under 12 shots. They are 4-2 when he takes over 13 shots. In those six games he was most aggressive, he also had 22 total turnovers, and five assists. When he was least aggressive? Seven assists, 11 turnovers.

 

The Lakers' bench, lack of point guard play, lack of play at the SF position, and their inability to defend quick players/teams is the issue. It's very clear you are clueless about all of this.

[FindingNeemo]

Yes, you're trolling. Why not post from your actual IP address, instead of using 18 different proxies?

 

What's an IP addess?

 

Kobe had lost a lot of that speed and athleticism back in 2009, his fourth championship...and that carried over into 2010, his fifth.

 

Why would I quote you? The Lakers are going to struggle for far more reasons than Kobe Bryant. You wouldn't look that impressive with a prediction like that, especially after they were swept by the champs last year. Not much of a reach.

 

Yeah nonetheless 2009 Kobe >>>>>>> 2012 Kobe. Last year was the first year he looked like complete horseshit and I was one of the few people that was certain LA would get owned and not get to the Finals. Also they had Phil Jackson back then who is the best coach of all-time and Pau Gasol was one of the top 3 bigs in the league along with Dirk and Howard. It is a known fact that Kobe has never been able to win without the best big in the game and then arguably the best big in the game in those initial years with Gasol. Just like it is also a known fact that Kobe never wins elimination games on the road and always gets blown out by 40. Game 7 against Phoenix? Game 4 vs Dallas? Game 5 vs Detoit? Yeah Kobe quits on his teams and never wins unless he has a vastly superior supporting cast. Good thing Kobe isn't the GM or they would've traded Bynum for Kidd back in 07.

A Bynum deep catch and DUNK? Haha, you don't watch the Lakers, I assume. Gasol posting up? Would you like for me to provide all of his shot charts?

 

Better yet, would you like to step outside of your trollfest and explain to us all the basics of Mike Brown's offense, and why Gasol does NOT post up as much as he should? Would you like to explain Gasol's quote, that he was going to shoot more threes this season?

 

Oh, this one is good: you want Drew to get more touches? At one point, Bynum was attempting 16 FGA/G. That was more than ANYONE that has teamed with Kobe since the 2002-03 season (Shaq), and even in 2003-04, Shaq didn't attempt 16 shots a night.

 

Yes I have seen mostly all the Lakes games on national tv and stretches of some via the internet. I have to the conclusion via watching the Lakers-Philadelphia stream last night. When they went to Bynum it was easy offense, a great post up opportunity or an open look for a shooter. The Lakers shooters are pathetic in their own right. Kobe is their best and he can't even average 30% hahahahhahahaha. But that's a different problem, the point is the Lakes got good looks and it was a superior offensive method. Gasol can't operate the low post with Bynum but he is still the best passing bigman in the league and will always find the cutters from the high post. Whenever Bynum is out of the game Gasol should be the go to option down low. If Kobe can get 5+ postup opputunities per game when he ends up taking some crap fadaway then surely Gasol is deserving of some as well. The Lakers coaching sucks, Kobe sucks, and the bench sucks. If Phil Jackson was coaching that team though they would be far better.

 

At one point? Cool so was that for like 2 weeks? Yeah all this proves is that Kobe is a ballhog. Lol @ Shaq not getting 16 shots a night. But yeah good luck with those 24 shots a game and making the playoffs as an 8th seed!hahahahhahahahaha

What were the Lakers doing with Drew shooting all of those attempts? They were playing the same way. The Lakers are 5-2 when Drew takes under 12 shots. They are 4-2 when he takes over 13 shots. In those six games he was most aggressive, he also had 22 total turnovers, and five assists. When he was least aggressive? Seven assists, 11 turnovers.

 

The Lakers' bench, lack of point guard play, lack of play at the SF position, and their inability to defend quick players/teams is the issue. It's very clear you are clueless about all of this.

 

Cool so 4-2 and 5-2 which is relatively the same record with both being a shit sample size. Thanks for that statistic, it proved a lot.

 

Here's another stat I will bring up. When Kobe shoots under 20 attempts LA is 4-1 this year. When he shoots over 20 LA is 10-10.

[Teletopez]

Uhm ok? Are you still butthurt that you had to leave that discussion because I dominated that thread like Bynum in the paint?

Yes... dominated.

 

1) Convinced that Deron is leaving.

 

2) Convinced that failing to get Dwight guarantees a Deron departure (because if ESPN says it, it must be true), only to see both Billy King and Deron Williams both deny it.

 

3) Convinced that Lopez's one year of unusually low rebounding statistics are indicative of his capabilities off the glass.

 

4) Under the impression that the Nets and Magic hadn't already completed a deal for Dwight.

 

5) Convinced that Lopez's absence is hardly a loss.

[FindingNeemo]

Yes... dominated.

 

1) Convinced that Deron is leaving.

 

2) Convinced that failing to get Dwight guarantees a Deron departure (because if ESPN says it, it must be true), only to see both Billy King and Deron Williams both deny it.

 

3) Convinced that Lopez's one year of unusually low rebounding statistics are indicative of his capabilities off the glass.

 

4) Under the impression that the Nets and Magic hadn't already completed a deal for Dwight.

 

5) Convinced that Lopez's absence is hardly a loss.

 

Deron is going to leave unless the Nets get another star. It's clear as day. It's what all the stars do these days aside from Steve Nash. Good luck holding onto him though and losing him for nothing. But yea take every word Billy King says as gospel. What is Deron going to say? "Yeah I'm leaving if they don't get Dwight". He'd get booed every game LOL. Yeah like he wants to spend the prime of his career leading a 30 win Nets team

 

One year unusually low rebounding? So you think its an outlier? There are no outliers in an 82 game season. He doesn't care about rebounding and is a weak bigman that will not be a key player on a top team. If you play 30+ minutes, are 7 feet, and average 6 RPG you are soft. Especially when you have young legs. He is in the prime of his career rebounding wise, yet still sucks. Good luck with that. Frankly none of these arguments even matter because the Nets are a horrendous team and will be irrelevant for years to come unless they get Dwight.

[NomarFachix]

What's an IP addess?

Gave yourself away. Not believable.

[Real Deal]

What's an IP addess?

-_-

 

Just like it is also a known fact that Kobe never wins elimination games on the road and always gets blown out by 40. Game 7 against Phoenix? Game 4 vs Dallas? Game 5 vs Detoit? Yeah Kobe quits on his teams and never wins unless he has a vastly superior supporting cast. Good thing Kobe isn't the GM or they would've traded Bynum for Kidd back in 07.

For one, Kobe was injured in the second half of last season, and throughout the playoffs, landing him in Germany for a knee procedure, but you probably didn't know that.

 

Anyway...Kobe never wins elimination games on the road? How many times has he been in that situation? Not in the seven-gamer against Houston, not in the seven against Boston in 2010. He wasn't on the road for an elimination against Boston in 2008. But I do like how you bring up that he never wins "without a vastly superior supporting cast" when talking about those elimination games. The Game 5 vs. Detroit, and the Game 4 against Dallas, according to you, contained those superior supporting casts. Don't contradict yourself.

 

When they went to Bynum it was easy offense, a great post up opportunity or an open look for a shooter. The Lakers shooters are pathetic in their own right. Kobe is their best and he can't even average 30% hahahahhahahaha. But that's a different problem, the point is the Lakes got good looks and it was a superior offensive method. Gasol can't operate the low post with Bynum but he is still the best passing bigman in the league and will always find the cutters from the high post. Whenever Bynum is out of the game Gasol should be the go to option down low. If Kobe can get 5+ postup opputunities per game when he ends up taking some crap fadaway then surely Gasol is deserving of some as well. The Lakers coaching sucks, Kobe sucks, and the bench sucks.

Uh...see, this is why I can tell you're not watching, or just not paying attention. The Lakers played their best basketball in the first quarter, and were up 24-21, and Kobe was already sitting on 14 points. Drew was less involved in the offense, just three points. ONE play was created by Drew that entire first.

 

Guess what? The Lakers were up at the half, 50-46, with Drew still having a limited role in the offense, and Kobe with 24 points, Drew with just seven and still hanging on to his one assist.

 

If you knew what happened in the second half, you wouldn't have said anything about the game. Drew became aggressive, and because the Sixers are a good defensive team, they knew that he holds the ball too long, and Kobe would have to bail out his team OR try and play off of Drew (which is ignorant).

 

It's pretty easy to tear your analysis apart so far.

 

If Phil Jackson was coaching that team though they would be far better.

LOL yes, like they were last year...

 

At one point? Cool so was that for like 2 weeks? Yeah all this proves is that Kobe is a ballhog. Lol @ Shaq not getting 16 shots a night. But yeah good luck with those 24 shots a game and making the playoffs as an 8th seed!hahahahhahahahaha

Ah...yeah, that was dumb of you to say. Shaq didn't get 16 shots a night because of Malone and Payton's roles on the team, and even Kobe was shooting 18. LA won 56 games that year, found their way into the NBA Finals. Maybe you were too young for that.

 

Cool so 4-2 and 5-2 which is relatively the same record with both being a shit sample size. Thanks for that statistic, it proved a lot.

 

Here's another stat I will bring up. When Kobe shoots under 20 attempts LA is 4-1 this year. When he shoots over 20 LA is 10-10.

That's not hard to figure out...usually happens when the Lakers have to play catch-up to teams. Nobody else is going to take the shots. Suddenly, three or four desperation shots, to crawl back from a 10-point deficit, turns a 16-shot attempt night into a 20. Nice job, though, trying to investigate a primary scoring option's shot attempts during wins and losses. He's the primary option every single game because defenses recognize him as such, hence why that happens.

 

My point was, Drew's shot attempts are irrelevant, because he doesn't do what he's supposed to do with the ball. He will score on one play, then hold it and run down the clock on another, try and shoot over a double team, turn the ball over, or throw a bad pass that results in an offensive reset and a Kobe bailout. It also turns Kobe into a spot-up shooter, which he is not, and that has been a thorn in this offense since the Lakers started the season.

 

If you need educated: http://lakernation.com/forums/index.php?/topic/52391-the-lakers-offense-and-defense

 

It was obvious from the start. You diving into this topic and telling us it's all on Kobe...it shows your ignorance and your misunderstanding of the Lakers offense and all of the players' roles on this team.

[FindingNeemo]

Gave yourself away. Not believable.

 

 

Obvious sarcasm was obvious

 

Thanks for your input on the topic. Post something meaningful or get out of the big boys way.

[Real Deal]

Gave yourself away. Not believable.

Yeah, he did. No point in bothering with him anymore.

[Real Deal]

Found his real IP. Here are his other 27, from proxy servers, lol...

 

http://i39.tinypic.com/256wk6o.jpg