No Extension For Evans?

[Sħãlïq™]

EDIT:

No Extension For Tyreke Evans? -- See post #2.

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ISAIAH THOMAS NAMED NBA WESTERN CONFERENCE ROOKIE OF THE MONTH FOR MARCH

 

http://www.nba.com//kings/media/IsaiahROYpack_585.png

SACRAMENTO, CALIF., Apr. 2, 2012 -- Kings guard Isaiah Thomas was named NBA Western Conference Rookie of the Month for games played in March. It is the second straight month he has won the award. Thomas joins Tyreke Evans as the only Kings rookies to win back-to-back Western Conference Rookie of the Month honors. Thomas is the fourth Kings rookie to receive the monthly honor – Lionel Simmons (December 1990, February 1991), Brian Grant (January 1995), Evans (October/November 2009, December 2009) – and joins Simmons and Evans as the only two-time award winners.

 

Thomas led Western Conference rookies in March in assists (4.9 rpg) and was second in scoring (13.6 ppg). He also led all rookies in fastbreak points (64) in March and was ranked first in free throws made (54), second in assists (89), third in points (245) and steals (24).

Source

Edited June 8, 2012 by Sħãlïq̵'

[Sħãlïq™]

No Extension For Tyreke Evans?

HANG TIME PLAYOFF HEADQUARTERS – Could Tyreke Evans go from Rookie of The Year to not even receiving a contract extension on his rookie deal from the Sacramento Kings? It appears so. Three years into his career, Evans has shown flashes of All-Star potential, but he’s also been moved from the point guard position he played during his rookie season. A career 18.2-point scorer, Evans saw his job as starting point guard eventually go to rookie Isaiah Thomas this season. Evans did start 61 of 63 games this season, but was in an off-guard position once Thomas took the point guard reins.

 

Now comes word, via Jason Jones of the Sacramento Bee, that Evans will probably not get a contract extension from the franchise this summer when he becomes eligible for one. Once thought to be the future face of the franchise, Evans has ceded that position to DeMarcus Cousins. With the fifth pick it the Draft, the Kings are expected to take a player that could actually make Evans, and others, expendable:

 

The team’s leading scorer is guard Marcus Thornton, who has three years left on his contract and is due approximately $24 million.

 

Tyreke Evans was the Rookie of the Year in the 2009-10 season. But heading into his fourth season, the Kings are not expected to offer him a contract extension, though he will be eligible for one this offseason.

 

John Salmons had one of the worst seasons of his career in 2011-12 before being benched. After that, he started showing flashes of the player the Kings traded for last June.

 

The Kings also have Francisco Garcia and Travis Outlaw under contract and still could re-sign Terrence Williams.

 

Even with all the players on the wing, none in the group is an established star and all could be challenged for his spot.

That is a precipitous fall from grace for Evans. Whether it is deserved or not is another question. The Kings have had a tumultuous ride since he was drafted. And there was a time when the play of Evans was one of the few bright spots. To see him in this place now is a bit strange to say the least.

Source

[Check my Stats]

He needs a change of scenery big time. The fact he hasn't progressed whatsoever up to this point is horrible. He clearly has a shit attitude and playing on a team with a bunch of other punks like Cousins isn't going to help that. That organization is a mess, how the hell do you let a 20 year old rookie get a coach fired. Incredible.

[AboveLegit]

Doesn't help when you're playing out of position so much. Sure he hasn't improved at the clip we expected him to since winning rookie of the year a few seasons ago, but he hasn't regressed. I agree, he does need a change of scenery, has to go to a team that will cater to his strengths.

[Built Ford Tough]

Doesn't help when you're playing out of position so much. Sure he hasn't improved at the clip we expected him to since winning rookie of the year a few seasons ago, but he hasn't regressed. I agree, he does need a change of scenery, has to go to a team that will cater to his strengths.

 

Question is, what exactly is his position? I don't really think he has one.

 

His jumper is too weak for shooting guard

He is clearly not a point guard

He's too small to play the 3

 

Looking at his game, I think the most logical position for him would be a point forward role, but the problem is he doesn't have the size to play the 3.

 

So then you try him at the 2, but his jumper sucks and he is useless without the ball in his hands.

 

So you play him at the point, but he doesn't have any real point guard instincts.

 

So really, what is his ideal position? I think the biggest reason why he has jumped between the 1, 2 and 3 so much in his career is because he really doesn't have a true position and the Kings are just trying to find out where it would be best to play him.

[Real Deal]

Evans needs to jump to a team that has a LeBron, or a McGrady, a guy that can facilitate and find value in Tyreke's slashing abilities. It just seems like he's a square block forced into a round hole, and teams aren't going to try and mold their offense around him because he's not a stellar player, doesn't really control the tempo of a game or create for others as a PG, and he's not a guy you can rely on to catch fire and light a team up from mid-range or outside.

 

I feel like the guy is panning out to be a better version of Flip Murray or Willie Green, in regards to not having a set role and being one-dimensional, stuck in between 2-3 positions.

[Big Penny]

He needs a change of scenery big time. The fact he hasn't progressed whatsoever up to this point is horrible. He clearly has a shit attitude and playing on a team with a bunch of other punks like Cousins isn't going to help that. That organization is a mess, how the hell do you let a 20 year old rookie get a coach fired. Incredible.

Are you kidding me?

 

Cousins has done nothing out of line this season. Nothing whatsoever. Crazy huh? Maybe if you followed the team you would know that.

 

The Westphal incident? Let's rewind shall we. Remember when Westphal coached the Sonics? Him and Gary Payton had a heated argument. George Karl never had any problem controlling Payton. Pat Riley never had any problem controlling Gary Payton. Westphal has one argument and guess what happens? Gary Payton - the franchise player - gets suspended. Suspended for standing up to an awful coach. Westphal is fired, and some coach who is there to coach basketball and not control people is hired.

 

Remember when Westphal coached the Kings? Remember when Spencer Hawes played for the Kings? Spencer Hawes stated that the Kings players were quite confused about their roles, and that there was no set rotation. He said this in the most politcally correct way possible. Wanna know what Westphal did about this? He placed Spencer Hawes on the Inactive list and said "“I saw where he’s having a hard time understanding his role, He should understand it (after) tonight.”

 

What a great coach right? Wrong. That should've been the warning signs for the Kings. This guy is a cunt.

 

Next. The Kings are frustrated. Frustrated because it's 2012 and they suck, as they have done for years. Tyreke Evans goes to the press and complains about the lack of offensive system. Cousins steps up to voice his opinion and JJ Hickson tells him not to. JJ Hickson tells him nothing good will come of it. JJ Hickson tells him to sit down privately with Westphal and discuss what he thinks. Cousins does exactly that. Westphal responds by calling him a cancer to the team. Cousins, a natural hothead, gets frustrated, and shouts "If I'm a cancer then why don't you trade me?" as you would to your Boss, if he called you useless. "If I'm so useless why don't you fire me?"

 

Westphal then suspends Cousins WITHOUT consulting any higher-ups in the organisation. He releases a statement saying Cousins has requested a trade. He is then fired for this little stunts. I have 2 exams tommorow so I can't be bothered now but I'll be glad to provide you with sources in about 20 hours.

Since then, Westphal has been (rightfully) unemployed, and Cousins has emerged into a Top-5 Center putting up 18/11.

 

You don't get anywhere with a coach who doesn't see a team to coach, but rather sees a group of men he can control. Westphal (was) the worst coach in the NBA and he was rightfully fired. Cousins fault? No. But if it was I would applaud him.

 

Anyways, on topic, this is a good move. Tyreke has showed very little progression, although with Westphal gone hopefully that will be different. If he continues to decline then we will be able to sign him for cheap in the off-season and avoid giving him a bloated contract. if he finally breaks out and becomes the player everyone thought he would be... well then he's still a RFA.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Big Penny

[AboveLegit]

So really, what is his ideal position? I think the biggest reason why he has jumped between the 1, 2 and 3 so much in his career is because he really doesn't have a true position and the Kings are just trying to find out where it would be best to play him

 

Evans is a good fit as the SF on a small ball club because he defends bigger than his size. But let's be honest, he won the Rookie of the Year at the SG spot, so you stick with him there unless the front office decides to just let him go. When it comes to Marcus Thornton and where he fits, I think he's best suited at the sixth man role where his defensive deficiencies aren't as magnified.

 

But if you look more closely at the Kings season, Tyreke actually improved as a shooter once Isaiah Thomas took over as the starting PG. I'm not ready to give up on him, you can't say he's regressed without mentioning the coaching change he's had to deal with (which involves different playing styles implemented), the plantar fasciitis he dealt with in year 2, and the lockout shortened season that stagnated his development even more.

 

Typically guard's nowadays are developing at a slower rate. Everything Evans fails at, moving without the ball, jump shot, and court vision can improve, with a full offseason ahead, it's not out of the question to assume he will develop at least one of these skills.

[Big Penny]

Evans is a good fit as the SF on a small ball club because he defends bigger than his size. But let's be honest, he won the Rookie of the Year at the SG spot, so you stick with him there unless the front office decides to just let him go. When it comes to Marcus Thornton and where he fits, I think he's best suited at the sixth man role where his defensive deficiencies aren't as magnified.

 

But if you look more closely at the Kings season, Tyreke actually improved as a shooter once Isaiah Thomas took over as the starting PG. I'm not ready to give up on him, you can't say he's regressed without mentioning the coaching change he's had to deal with (which involves different playing styles implemented), the plantar fasciitis he dealt with in year 2, and the lockout shortened season that stagnated his development even more.

 

Typically guard's nowadays are developing at a slower rate. Everything Evans fails at, moving without the ball, jump shot, and court vision can improve, with a full offseason ahead, it's not out of the question to assume he will develop at least one of these skills.

I agree. Tyreke and Thornton can't play together, it would be better for Thornton to come off the bench.

 

Tyreke at SF was actually an experiment too... Smart moved Tyreke to SF in order to force him to play off the ball. It's certainly not permanent, it was just for the season to make him adapt and see the court differently.

[Real Deal]

I'm going to stick up for Westphal. When I was a Suns fan (much younger, didn't have a team to root for), he coached Phoenix to the NBA Finals his first season there. Yes, they had just traded for Charles Barkley, but one of the biggest problems concerning Westphal was that people weren't sure if a first-year coach could handle a guy that had a short temper and had reached superstar status. Phoenix was KJ's team until Barkley stepped in, and Johnson was putting up numbers that were actually as good (or better) than Steve Nash's numbers we've seen over the years, a better scorer and defender (by far), and distributed the ball well (although, not as good, of course). Cotton Fitzsimmons was doing a very good job with the Suns, but he could never get them over the hump, and the combo of CB34 and Westphal did the trick.

 

In fact, for the three years Westphal coached Barkley (not including the 30 games or so he coached in his final season with the Suns, who were without KJ four games into the season), Sir Charles praised him...said he was an excellent coach, worked very well with the players, etc.

 

Gary Payton didn't have it out with George Karl? They fought quite a bit. I grew up watching that Sonics team run through the West. Take an article back from 1996:

 

The Sonics are clearly in this point guard's image, and that is part of their dysfunction. He is, at times, a how-to manual and, at times, a how-not-to manual. He is a three-time All-Star, was defensive player of the year over Dennis Rodman, is capable of draining 3-pointers over Rodman, but is also an unlicensed clubhouse lawyer. He will vilify a teammate, kiss and make up five minutes later, then vilify him again five minutes later. He once threatened to pull a gun on Ricky Pierce, a former teammate, and that was on one of his subtle days.

 

He is, at times, profane, but also, at times, father of the month. He and his magniloquent coach, George Karl, have almost come to blows, but they have also discussed taking a vacation together. "I'm closer to Gary Payton's mother, girlfriend and his kids than anybody on this team," Karl said. "I spend more time hanging out with his kids than anybody. But I'll tell you, one time my wife asked Gary's daughter, 'Do you like Coach?' And little Raquel said, 'No, Coach can't come into our house. Daddy doesn't want him there.' "

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/02/sports/nba-playoffs-the-two-sides-of-gary-payton.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

 

Sure, he was talking good about him in interviews to the media, but there were problems in practice, problems during the games, problems in the locker room. Gary Payton was a troubled player, not on the level of Dennis or Ron, but he was there.

 

Westphal walked into a locker room that had just come off a 17-win season with two different coaches. Evans was a rookie, Cousins didn't exist. Once the smoke cleared, two years later, Cousins is still shooting under 45% as a big man, acting like he's a superstar center during games, under Westphal and Smart.

 

The difference between Westphal and Smart? Westphal doesn't put up with that kind of shit. He is a winning coach, a 53% win percentage over his coaching career, 55% in the playoffs, including a trip to the NBA Finals as a rookie coach, able to calm down Charles Barkley (who was far more disruptive than Cousins, but a FAR better player and he knew how to win).

 

Under Smart, they were 20-39. Big deal. That's 28 games won in an 82-game season. Cousins SHOULD be getting 18/11, as many opportunities as he's getting...doesn't mean much, though, because he's still shooting like crap. Only one Kings player shot the ball over 46%, and that was Jason Thompson (T-Will played just 18 games). They are nearly dead last in FG%, THE SECOND worst defensive team in the NBA, second worst three-point shooting team, and they never, ever pass the ball to each other. What did this team accomplish without Westphal? The same thing they did with him...which was nothing.

 

They are poorly assembled, they don't have a leader, they don't have a player that can carry them through games...they don't have the goods to get it done, and no matter what coach you stick in there, you won't see a productive season out of that group. It's not Westphal's fault. I almost feel sorry for him.

[Big Penny]

I'm going to stick up for Westphal. When I was a Suns fan (much younger, didn't have a team to root for), he coached Phoenix to the NBA Finals his first season there. Yes, they had just traded for Charles Barkley, but one of the biggest problems concerning Westphal was that people weren't sure if a first-year coach could handle a guy that had a short temper and had reached superstar status. Phoenix was KJ's team until Barkley stepped in, and Johnson was putting up numbers that were actually as good (or better) than Steve Nash's numbers we've seen over the years, a better scorer and defender (by far), and distributed the ball well (although, not as good, of course). Cotton Fitzsimmons was doing a very good job with the Suns, but he could never get them over the hump, and the combo of CB34 and Westphal did the trick.

 

In fact, for the three years Westphal coached Barkley (not including the 30 games or so he coached in his final season with the Suns, who were without KJ four games into the season), Sir Charles praised him...said he was an excellent coach, worked very well with the players, etc.

 

Gary Payton didn't have it out with George Karl? They fought quite a bit. I grew up watching that Sonics team run through the West. Take an article back from 1996:

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/02/sports/nba-playoffs-the-two-sides-of-gary-payton.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

 

Sure, he was talking good about him in interviews to the media, but there were problems in practice, problems during the games, problems in the locker room. Gary Payton was a troubled player, not on the level of Dennis or Ron, but he was there.

 

Westphal walked into a locker room that had just come off a 17-win season with two different coaches. Evans was a rookie, Cousins didn't exist. Once the smoke cleared, two years later, Cousins is still shooting under 45% as a big man, acting like he's a superstar center during games, under Westphal and Smart.

 

The difference between Westphal and Smart? Westphal doesn't put up with that kind of shit. He is a winning coach, a 53% win percentage over his coaching career, 55% in the playoffs, including a trip to the NBA Finals as a rookie coach, able to calm down Charles Barkley (who was far more disruptive than Cousins, but a FAR better player and he knew how to win).

 

Under Smart, they were 20-39. Big deal. That's 28 games won in an 82-game season. Cousins SHOULD be getting 18/11, as many opportunities as he's getting...doesn't mean much, though, because he's still shooting like crap. Only one Kings player shot the ball over 46%, and that was Jason Thompson (T-Will played just 18 games). They are nearly dead last in FG%, THE SECOND worst defensive team in the NBA, second worst three-point shooting team, and they never, ever pass the ball to each other. What did this team accomplish without Westphal? The same thing they did with him...which was nothing.

 

They are poorly assembled, they don't have a leader, they don't have a player that can carry them through games...they don't have the goods to get it done, and no matter what coach you stick in there, you won't see a productive season out of that group. It's not Westphal's fault. I almost feel sorry for him.

But Karl never pulled BS moves like that on Payton.

 

Westphal has a history of suspending players and acting like a punk. The only team he didn't pull that kind of shit with was the Suns.

 

DeMarcus Cousins' FG%. His biggest knock against him. Here are the facts:

 

1. Cousins leads the NBA in FGAs at the rim. He is assisted on a very low % of these which does nothing to help his FG%

2. His FG% on shots at the rim is fairly low - on par with finesse Centers such as Hibbert and Kaman.

3. Cousins is blocked more than anyone in the NBA. However, this is due to the large amounts of shots he takes at the rim. His blocked % is actually fairly average.

4. Cousins low FG% and Ast rate can also be explained by the fact he leads the league in offensive rebounds

5. He was 4th in Defensive Efficiency

6. Statistically, no other Center is as effective in the paint and out on the perimeter as Cousins.

7. His percentage is drastically let down by his shots from 3-9 feet out. Most of his post moves are aimed for him to be aggressive and get to the rim. He hasn't learned to play a proper finesse game yet, so this percentage is very low.

8. Cousins is one of the best shooting Centers in the NBA, statistically - he shoots a similar percentage to Bosh and Love on 16-23 footers,

 

I can provide the source but it's from another website and the post is insanely long so I can't c/p it over. If you're OK with me sharing the link then I will, but if not just trust me. (His FG% at the rim is 56.7% on 7.3 per game, 30% on 3.4 attempts from 3-9 feet out, 35.1% on 0.9 attempts from 10-15 feet out, and 40.0% on 3.8 attempts from 15-23 feet out) his mid-range game is fine and his inside game is fine, it's the finesse game that lets him down.

 

How do you explain what happened between Hawes and Westphal? That's a bitch move no matter how you spin it.

 

And the Kings never won more game with Smart, that's true. Partly because that's when they realised it was hopeless, Smart played Reke at SF in order to prepare him for next year and also he was under instruction from the Maloofs to get the most out of Isaiah because he was their big money maker last year.

 

I agree though, the Kings were awfully coached. I don't see how you can blame that on Smart and not on Westphal though. When Smart took over the Kings did not have a gameplan. They had no offensive system. They had no set rotation. They just went out there and were told to win. That's how you coach the '92 Dream Team... not how you coach a team filled with young egotistical guys.

 

Just worth mentioning too, the Kings showed no progression in the Win column under Smart, but the progression in individual player's games was astonishing. Tyreke averaged 14/3/3 on 42% with Westphal as the coach, 17/5/5 on 46% with Smart. Cousins averaged 14/9/1 on 39% with Westphal as the coach, 19/11/2 on 45% with Smart. Smart put his confidence in IT and allowed him to take over as the starting PG. He got the best he could out of Jason Thompson. After a full training camp I'm confident they can put it together as a team and move out of the bottom seeds.

[Real Deal]

The explanation given regarding Cousins' FG% doesn't mean much to me. All of the percentages you gave me are low (other than his long two's), regardless of the explanation. The best centers don't need spoon-fed, and Cousins doesn't draw double teams like Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum. He's getting blocked because...well, because he's not going up strong with the ball, or (on occasion) he doesn't have the post moves to step into the basket and knock his defender to the outside.

 

If you're telling me that Cousins needs to develop into a finesse PF, well, he's on his way...but that's pretty sad for a man of his size.

 

The incident with Spencer Hawes...you only heard what he said to the media. Nobody but him and Westphal have a clue what he said about player roles behind closed doors. I don't even look into that stuff. It's like the Kobe/Shaq BS, both saying there were never any problems...even Phil saying it, then we hear something different from other players, even those three guys. It's a lost cause to try and figure that out.

 

Smart jumped into a situation where, yes, the Kings had absolutely no offensive gameplan. I agree. Why? Because you can't provide a team constructed THAT poorly with a gameplan. There was no PG until Thomas stepped in, Evans had no idea what position he was playing (and will always have trouble with that, which leads me to believe the confusion regarding the players' roles rest on the shoulders of those players, not Westphal...because their best player was clueless), Cousins thinks he's a finesse PF (but should be a reckless center that pushes his weight around, like he was instructed to do at Kentucky), Thornton has no idea what to do with the ball because Evans has no position on the floor, and the only guy that seems to know what he's doing out there (Jason Thompson) finally gets the starting role, but is given an average of just 6-7 shot attempts a night, despite being the only player on the team that can shoot over 46% (and he's at a very impressive 54%).

 

Thompson was actually taking three more shots per game with Westphal coaching, because Westphal noticed he was the only guy that could put the ball in the basket consistently WHILE playing a defined role night in and night out, without requiring any adjustments to suit him.

 

2009-10 season (Westphal's first year w/ SAC, no Cousins)

FG%: 19th

3PT%: 16th

PTS/G: 18th

REB: 10th

AST: 20th

oppFG%: 20th

OFF RTG: 22nd

DEF RTG: 20th

 

2011-12 season (Smart's first year w/ SAC, Cousins playing his best)

FG%: 26th

3PT%: 29th

PTS/G: 6th

REB: 10th

AST: 26th

oppFG%: 30th

OFF RTG: 21st

DEF RTG: 29th

 

Under Smart, the Kings played faster, scored more points per 100 possessions, but did not shoot the ball well at all, didn't pass the ball well, didn't hit the three at all, didn't defend. It was the perfect recipe for failure, and I believe it all started with them wanting to play through Cousins more than ever.

 

By the numbers, Sacramento played significantly worse, but they had a slightly-higher winning percentage because, quite frankly, the Kings didn't play through an 82-game schedule. They didn't play the Heat, Celtics, Pacers, Magic, Sixers or Hawks twice...didn't play the Lakers, Spurs, Mavs, Nuggets, Grizzlies or Clippers four times each (just three).

 

Yeah, Smart started Thomas...after 22 games (under him). Westphal had just seven games to make that decision to start Thomas, and I'm pretty sure he would have, eventually, because Thomas is more of a Kevin Johnson than Tyreke, and Westphal has been wanting to coach another KJ for a long time now. Not really fair to say Smart was genius to pull that off, because for 22 games, he brought him off the bench.

 

I also don't believe Smart got the best of Thompson. Again, as stated earlier, Westphal was the guy giving him over 10 FGA/G, and JT deserved that...and still does, when you look at the rest of this roster. When Cousins came along, Thompson's shot attempts fell to just above seven a night, and with Smart the following season, they fell below that.

 

Evans did better under Smart? Well, he actually did solid under Westphal, before Cousins stepped into play. His best season was under Westphal, by far, without Cousins...and then, not by coincidence, he shoots a horrible 41% and has no idea whether to play through a big man who doesn't play as big as he should, to run the point, to slash and get to the rim, to create for others...whatever...he didn't know.

 

The only time a player should be taking over 15 shots a night, at under 45%, is if he's drawing serious doubles and creating for his teammates out of them. Superstars have the green light to do this...and not necessarily the ones that are Gasol-like (will shoot, but not TOO much), but those that are not afraid to take over games (Kobe, Wade, Iverson, LeBron, Durant, McGrady, whoever).

 

I honestly don't see why I should believe this team can be successful with Cousins playing the way he does. It doesn't matter the coach.

[Big Penny]

The explanation given regarding Cousins' FG% doesn't mean much to me. All of the percentages you gave me are low (other than his long two's), regardless of the explanation.

Similar inside % to Roy Hibbert, but okay.

 

The best centers don't need spoon-fed, and Cousins doesn't draw double teams like Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum. He's getting blocked because...well, because he's not going up strong with the ball, or (on occasion) he doesn't have the post moves to step into the basket and knock his defender to the outside.

No, but they need teammates who are willing to give them the ball and not feed off scraps.

 

Have you ever watched the Kings play? Cousins receives double/triple teams inside.

 

If you're telling me that Cousins needs to develop into a finesse PF, well, he's on his way...but that's pretty sad for a man of his size.

No, that's not what I said at all. Cousins needs a finesse post game... like every single great center has had.

 

Smart jumped into a situation where, yes, the Kings had absolutely no offensive gameplan. I agree. Why? Because you can't provide a team constructed THAT poorly with a gameplan. There was no PG until Thomas stepped in, Evans had no idea what position he was playing (and will always have trouble with that, which leads me to believe the confusion regarding the players' roles rest on the shoulders of those players, not Westphal...because their best player was clueless), Cousins thinks he's a finesse PF (but should be a reckless center that pushes his weight around, like he was instructed to do at Kentucky), Thornton has no idea what to do with the ball because Evans has no position on the floor, and the only guy that seems to know what he's doing out there (Jason Thompson) finally gets the starting role, but is given an average of just 6-7 shot attempts a night, despite being the only player on the team that can shoot over 46% (and he's at a very impressive 54%).

Yes you can, if you're a good coach. Thornton and Tyreke can't play together. I know it. You have clearly noticed it. Bring one off the bench, that's not difficult. Smart also should've figured that out tbh but he's not a great coach either - just better suited for a young team. Cousins leads the NBA in FG attempts at the rim, I don't know why you're obsessed with him being a finesse power forward... every good center has had to have a finesse post-game. Shaq is the only one who was a perennial all-star without one and Shaq makes DMC look like a rag doll.

 

Thompson had such few shot attempts because he's not a big-time scorer. He will have a big game every now and then, but the reason he's such a good fit on the team is because while everyone else is running around thinking "I'm gonna get 50!!!" (Which they will do, since they would have done that at every previous level of competition, and when they got to the NBA they weren't told otherwise because Westphal never established a pecking order or a gameplan) Thompson is quite comfortable to sit back and take what the defense gives him.

 

Also worth noting that Westphal started Hayes and Hickson over Thompson.

Thompson was actually taking three more shots per game with Westphal coaching, because Westphal noticed he was the only guy that could put the ball in the basket consistently WHILE playing a defined role night in and night out, without requiring any adjustments to suit him.

Worth noting that with Westphal coaching this year Thompson averaged 6 PPG on 5 FG attempts.

 

2009-10 season (Westphal's first year w/ SAC, no Cousins)

FG%: 19th

3PT%: 16th

PTS/G: 18th

REB: 10th

AST: 20th

oppFG%: 20th

OFF RTG: 22nd

DEF RTG: 20th

 

2011-12 season (Smart's first year w/ SAC, Cousins playing his best)

FG%: 26th

3PT%: 29th

PTS/G: 6th

REB: 10th

AST: 26th

oppFG%: 30th

OFF RTG: 21st

DEF RTG: 29th

 

Under Smart, the Kings played faster, scored more points per 100 possessions, but did not shoot the ball well at all, didn't pass the ball well, didn't hit the three at all, didn't defend. It was the perfect recipe for failure, and I believe it all started with them wanting to play through Cousins more than ever.

Of course they would play through Cousins. He's the best player on the team.

 

The reason for those low stats is the players they have. Out of the 10 players who lead the 2010 team in FG%, only 2 of them (Jason Thompson and Tyreke Evans) remain... so unless Cousins is also the GM of the team, you can't rationally blame him.

 

The only two consistent outside shooters on the team are Thornton and Thomas. There aren't any consistent good perimeter defenders - Greene is a good defender but can't concentrate, Tyreke is a good on-ball defender but an atrocious off-ball defender. All our "at the rim scorers" (and that's Cousins and Tyreke only) play under the rim and aren't gonna jump over anybody. The team has no pecking order so everyone wants to be the #1 guy which doesn't help with the Assists.

 

By the numbers, Sacramento played significantly worse, but they had a slightly-higher winning percentage because, quite frankly, the Kings didn't play through an 82-game schedule. They didn't play the Heat, Celtics, Pacers, Magic, Sixers or Hawks twice...didn't play the Lakers, Spurs, Mavs, Nuggets, Grizzlies or Clippers four times each (just three).

You can use that argument for any team. What if. Doesn't change what happened.

Yeah, Smart started Thomas...after 22 games (under him). Westphal had just seven games to make that decision to start Thomas, and I'm pretty sure he would have, eventually, because Thomas is more of a Kevin Johnson than Tyreke, and Westphal has been wanting to coach another KJ for a long time now. Not really fair to say Smart was genius to pull that off, because for 22 games, he brought him off the bench.

He became a regular rotation player after Smart's first 2 games.

 

I also don't believe Smart got the best of Thompson. Again, as stated earlier, Westphal was the guy giving him over 10 FGA/G, and JT deserved that...and still does, when you look at the rest of this roster. When Cousins came along, Thompson's shot attempts fell to just above seven a night, and with Smart the following season, they fell below that.

Because Cousins takes a lot of shots?

 

I don't get this thing you have with Cousins... when a guy comes along who is good enough to be taking 15+ shots downlow and grab double digit rebounds, people are gonna get less shots.

Evans did better under Smart? Well, he actually did solid under Westphal, before Cousins stepped into play. His best season was under Westphal, by far, without Cousins...and then, not by coincidence, he shoots a horrible 41% and has no idea whether to play through a big man who doesn't play as big as he should, to run the point, to slash and get to the rim, to create for others...whatever...he didn't know.

Also because he was injured pretty much all season his 2nd year (Opted to play through a condition that should've had him sitting out 2-4 months), but yeah, let's blame Cousins some more.

The only time a player should be taking over 15 shots a night, at under 45%, is if he's drawing serious doubles and creating for his teammates out of them. Superstars have the green light to do this...and not necessarily the ones that are Gasol-like (will shoot, but not TOO much), but those that are not afraid to take over games (Kobe, Wade, Iverson, LeBron, Durant, McGrady, whoever).

Well he does get a bunch of defensive attention. I don't know where you got the idea that he doesn't.

I honestly don't see why I should believe this team can be successful with Cousins playing the way he does. It doesn't matter the coach.

"Playing the way he does"

 

You do realise it's his SECOND YEAR right? He came into a team with - whether you think Westphal was good or not - no rotation, no gameplan and filled with chuckers. He was then not allowed to have a proper off-season coming into his sophomore year, and had to deal with a coaching change weeks in. Yet he still had an 18/11 2nd year and looks to have an extremely bright future.

 

Come back to me if he's still shooting 45% in 4-5 years. I don't know what you were expecting from him lol.

[Real Deal]

You just told me the stats are low because of the players the Kings have. That's my point. I'm not even sure what else there is to discuss, once you said that.

 

The coaching is far from the problem. It's the team. You aren't going to be able to install a legitimate offense with Cousins as your primary option and Evans running around with nothing to do.

 

People actually think that Andrew Bynum could be a primary scoring option on a good team. It's ridiculous. He gets tore up when the doubles come, and he gets more defensive pressure than Cousins when the smaller teams come to LA, because they are content with Kobe shooting jumpers. If Drew is unable to do it (and he definitely is, I don't care what he scores as our second option), there's absolutely no way DeMarcus Cousins can.

 

I honestly don't care what Cousins will be doing in 4-5 years. If you Kings fans are willing to wait that long, well, I guess we'll see you in the playoffs? I've heard that for years.

 

All of this was triggered when you started to sling mud at Westphal for the way Cousins was playing, the way he was acting, the way the team played, whatever. You're now giving me excuses for the way he's playing, and those excuses are now bleeding into the Smart era...and just a bit ago, you clearly stated the team is bad (their numbers) because, well, the team is bad.

 

Larry Brown was done coaching Charlotte after approx. 30 games last season. He is a legendary coach, and he's also one that doesn't put up with bullshit from young rooks and sophomores that don't understand their roles or know how to act. Everyone jumped his ass because of the way he dealt with LeBron, Wade and Carmelo when they were on Team USA in 2004, but now look at the way they have acted over the years.

 

Remember our discussion about Hickson over at TLN? What happened with him? You were relieved that he was let go, said he would be a wreck with the Blazers...and, yet, he put up arguably the best numbers of his career once he got there, shot the ball very well, took plenty of shots he wasn't getting in Sacramento, and he looked pretty good. He looked happy to be out of there.

 

It's hard to really say much more about the situation. Everything falls on the team itself, and if Cousins is the best player (according to you), well, he's going to get most of the blame.

 

Regarding Hibbert...he's also shooting 10 shots a night, and an overall FG% of 50%. Hibbert hasn't even taken 14 threes in his career...yet, Cousins took 14 just this past season, at 14%. Despite that, he's a big reason why the Pacers lost to the Heat, and if that's the case, I can only imagine how bad it would have been if Cousins was in that position.

[Big Penny]

You just told me the stats are low because of the players the Kings have. That's my point. I'm not even sure what else there is to discuss, once you said that.

They could be higher if we had an offensive system. Obviously with this roster they're never going to be phenomenal but it's a mix of playing and coaching.

The coaching is far from the problem. It's the team. You aren't going to be able to install a legitimate offense with Cousins as your primary option and Evans running around with nothing to do.

As a coach you should be able to. Cousins knows what to do as a primary option. The problem lies after that because nobody else has any idea what to do.

People actually think that Andrew Bynum could be a primary scoring option on a good team. It's ridiculous. He gets tore up when the doubles come, and he gets more defensive pressure than Cousins when the smaller teams come to LA, because they are content with Kobe shooting jumpers. If Drew is unable to do it (and he definitely is, I don't care what he scores as our second option), there's absolutely no way DeMarcus Cousins can.

Difference being there has to be 3-4 defenders all with guns before Bynum will even think "Maybe I should pass...." whereas Cousins is a willing passer. Also, from the games I've seen there is no way Drew gets more attention than Cousins on a consistent basis. Teams are content with throwing defenders at Cousins because who's going to beat them from the outside? John Salmons? Tyreke Evans? Lol.

 

Cousins is one of the best ball-handling bigs in the NBA and is a terrific passer out of the high post. He showcased that during his rookie season. Westphal then took him out of the high post to start this season.

I honestly don't care what Cousins will be doing in 4-5 years. If you Kings fans are willing to wait that long, well, I guess we'll see you in the playoffs? I've heard that for years.

Naw.

 

#Playoffs2013

 

IJS, Cousins is in his 2nd year and has had one of the toughest paths (basketball wise) imaginable.

 

All of this was triggered when you started to sling mud at Westphal for the way Cousins was playing, the way he was acting, the way the team played, whatever. You're now giving me excuses for the way he's playing, and those excuses are now bleeding into the Smart era...and just a bit ago, you clearly stated the team is bad (their numbers) because, well, the team is bad.

Yes the team is bad.

 

I was slinging mud at Westphal because of the way he treats his players. The way he treated Payton, the way he treated Hawes, the way he treated Cousins. He was interested more in making sure everyone on the Kings knew he was "the man". If Cousins and Tyreke had been drafted to a team with Keith Smart as the coach, they would've progressed a hell of a lot more.

 

I wasn't expecting any fireworks from the team this year, even if Phil Jackson decided to coach them. Westphal never ran an offensive system. Westphal never established a rotation. Westphal would then talk shit to the press and suspend players if they complained about this. I showed you hard evidence of this.

 

What do you expect Smart to do? He took over a team that had NO GAMEPLAN, NO ROTATION, NO SYSTEM... during the season! He can't just take 2-3 weeks out of the league to establish his system. I am willing to put any money on the numbers being drastically higher next season.

Larry Brown was done coaching Charlotte after approx. 30 games last season. He is a legendary coach, and he's also one that doesn't put up with bullshit from young rooks and sophomores that don't understand their roles or know how to act. Everyone jumped his ass because of the way he dealt with LeBron, Wade and Carmelo when they were on Team USA in 2004, but now look at the way they have acted over the years.

Larry Brown was a tough coach. Westphal was a bellend.

 

I would've loved Larry Brown to come to Sacramento and set these guys straight. He was my first choice when Westphal was fired.

Remember our discussion about Hickson over at TLN? What happened with him? You were relieved that he was let go, said he would be a wreck with the Blazers...and, yet, he put up arguably the best numbers of his career once he got there, shot the ball very well, took plenty of shots he wasn't getting in Sacramento, and he looked pretty good. He looked happy to be out of there.

You want me to admit I was wrong? Okay, I was wrong.

 

He played awfully with Sacramento and seemed more concerned with getting his numbers. Like almost everyone on the team.

It's hard to really say much more about the situation. Everything falls on the team itself, and if Cousins is the best player (according to you), well, he's going to get most of the blame.

According to me and anyone who has any knowledge of the Kings....

 

Fine.

Regarding Hibbert...he's also shooting 10 shots a night, and an overall FG% of 50%. Hibbert hasn't even taken 14 threes in his career...yet, Cousins took 14 just this past season, at 14%. Despite that, he's a big reason why the Pacers lost to the Heat, and if that's the case, I can only imagine how bad it would have been if Cousins was in that position.

Really? Because I saw Hibbert get overrated as [expletive] during the playoffs against the Heat.

 

I was comparing their FG% on inside shots, not overall players.

[Real Deal]

Everything you're debating hinges on Cousins' ability to turn into an all-star and a legitimate franchise player that can carry this team into the playoffs (as a #1 option).

 

I have yet to see anything that suggests that.

 

It's not that I've been going off of box scores. I do watch Kings games. I'd like to think that I watch more basketball (meaning, more teams) that most anyone else, because all of the work I do is usually in the mornings or super late night, and all free time I have revolves around watching games...and, I mean, I don't see Cousins getting THAT much defensive attention. I know you're not saying it, but you're putting him closer to Shaq (in regards to that defensive attention he's drawing) than someone like, say, Nene...and I've never seen that consistently throughout the game, especially when he's off the low block and trying to face up his defender.

 

No, I didn't want you to admit that you were wrong about Hickson. That definitely wasn't what I was after. What I predicted, when it came to Hickson, was that he would get away from Cousins (and this mess of a team that is supposed to be playing through Cousins) and have better opportunities, and he did. If you ask me what Tyreke Evans would do if he went to a different team that gave him better opportunities as a scorer, not having to play through someone like Cousins...I'd give you the same answer.

 

I can't really say Hibbert was overrated. He was praised greatly in one or two of those games, and for good reason: he played very well in those. But, he decided not to play like a big man, not to take advantage of a smaller Heat team, when it mattered most...and that's what killed Indiana. I don't remember which games he did play solid in, but he played like he was towering over everyone out there...and then, he turned into a PF, for some reason.

 

I'll admit it: I don't like Cousins. However, I'm not rooting against him. I would like to see him play big all of the time. I have an issue with big men that decide to play like Dirk...if you're not Dirk (and Cousins isn't), and you have a CLEAR size advantage over most everyone in a league that lacks the combination of size + dominance at that position, you take the low post and do work. When Cousins starts doing that every chance he gets, I'll listen to arguments that he can be the guy that carries this team into the playoffs (and not just in some 4-0 sweep against the #1 in the first round).