LeBron in the paint vs. outside, NBA Finals

[Real Deal]

http://i45.tinypic.com/2m7ubfm.jpg

 

This is what happens when your best perimeter defender (Thabo) is too short to defend LeBron in the post...and when your best shot-contesting perimeter player (Durant) is too skinny to body LeBron in the post.

 

It does make me wonder, however, just how big of a deal someone like Iguodala would be for the Thunder in this series (strictly on the defensive end, not taking into consideration his willingness to create for others).

[YugoRocketsFan]

Imagine what he could have done if his shot was on.

[Real Deal]

Imagine what he could have done if his shot was on.

His shot wasn't on for five games?

 

LeBron is not a stellar shooter. Boston nearly beat Miami because of that, until Bosh came back and gave Garnett someone to defend.

 

Imagine if Shaq was able to hit threes.

[ChosenOne]

 

Imagine if Shaq was able to hit threes.

 

[YugoRocketsFan]

His shot wasn't on for five games?

 

LeBron is not a stellar shooter. Boston nearly beat Miami because of that, until Bosh came back and gave Garnett someone to defend.

 

Imagine if Shaq was able to hit threes.

 

The hate is strong in this one.

[Flash]

Yugo has a point though. This was the weakest series for LBJ in terms of perimeter shooting. His shot clearly wasn't falling and pretty much all his points came from inside the paint. Has his jumper been on...we might have swept and he could've averaged around 35 a game.

 

I'll gladly take those stats though

[JYD]

Yugo has a point though. This was the weakest series for LBJ in terms of perimeter shooting. His shot clearly wasn't falling and pretty much all his points came from inside the paint. Has his jumper been on...we might have swept and he could've averaged around 35 a game.

 

I'll gladly take those stats though

The sample size was extremely small. We've seen LeBron really brick some perimeter shots in the past against good teams, and begin to settle for those. We never saw that in this series.

[Cleveland's Finest]

The Thunder could have done a better job of making him shoot threes. Way too many attempts in the paint.

 

Looking at how well he did in the paint, you would think OKC played good defense on the 3 point shooters, but they gave up wide open threes. So, if they were giving LeBron what he wanted and giving up wide open threes, what was the defense trying to accomplish?

Edited June 23, 2012 by Cleveland's Finest

[Check my Stats]

Its incredible how dominant he was while having his worst shooting performance since 07 outside the paint. Hopefully the Durant-LBJ argument can be put to rest for now.

[Real Deal]

Has his jumper been on...we might have swept and he could've averaged around 35 a game.

So if you're not going to give credit to the Thunder's defense, I might as well say...if Harden was hitting his jumper, the Thunder would have won this series in four or five, but he just wasn't on, for some reason (maybe it was the food).

 

Teams beat LeBron by forcing him into jumpers. Dallas did it in 2011...that's why you guys lost that series. LeBron barely got to the foul line, because Marion, Kidd and Stevenson were forcing him to take jumpshots, and he averaged under 20 PPG because of it.

[JYD]

Teams beat LeBron by forcing him into jumpers. Dallas did it in 2011...that's why you guys lost that series. LeBron barely got to the foul line, because Marion, Kidd and Stevenson were forcing him to take jumpshots, and he averaged under 20 PPG because of it.

Exactly. The inability to keep him out of the paint and protect the basket was the ultimate killer for the Thunder. You make James a jump shooter, you have to like your chances.

 

Really, it came down to defense, and the Thunder just didn't play enough of it to win this series.

Edited June 22, 2012 by JYD

[The Regime]

The only game that Lebron's jumpshot was "on" the whole postseason was game 6 against the Celtics. I cant think of any other game. People that think that Lebron is a good jumpshooter are delusional.

 

Honestly the Lakers probably had the best chance of slowing him down offensively. Artest has the strength to body him, and our bigs would have certainly made it difficult for him to finish around the rim. The Spurs would have been no better off than the Thunder.

[YugoRocketsFan]

The only game that Lebron's jumpshot was "on" the whole postseason was game 6 against the Celtics. I cant think of any other game. People that think that Lebron is a good jumpshooter are delusional.

 

Honestly the Lakers probably had the best chance of slowing him down offensively. Artest has the strength to body him, and our bigs would have certainly made it difficult for him to finish around the rim. The Spurs would have been no better off than the Thunder.

I'm sure the Lakers would have stopped LeBron, they would have swept, and Kobe would have averaged a triple double for the series.

[The Regime]

I'm sure the Lakers would have stopped LeBron, they would have swept, and Kobe would have averaged a triple double for the series.

 

I didn't say anything about them sweeping Miami, and what does Kobe have to do with this topic? Typical Yugo post.

[Lkr]

The only game that Lebron's jumpshot was "on" the whole postseason was game 6 against the Celtics. I cant think of any other game. People that think that Lebron is a good jumpshooter are delusional.

 

Honestly the Lakers probably had the best chance of slowing him down offensively. Artest has the strength to body him, and our bigs would have certainly made it difficult for him to finish around the rim. The Spurs would have been no better off than the Thunder.

Interesting point, primarily because the Lakers have been able to keep LeBron out of the post for the past 4 years or so. The Miami @ LA game this year became a blowout because Bynum wasn't allowing anyone to get a layup inside.

 

The conjecture about LeBron's jumper is pretty funny though. If his jumper is "on", he would probably have a worse game because he is settling and not setting up his teammates, something he thrives at. Rondo was making everything including threes in game two against Miami, but it didn't make any difference than if he had scored 10 points imo, because the other 30 would have come from his effort in setting up everyone else

[Nitro]

It does make me wonder, however, just how big of a deal someone like Iguodala would be for the Thunder in this series (strictly on the defensive end, not taking into consideration his willingness to create for others).

 

LeBron slaughtered Iguodala last year in the playoffs, and he burned Deng in the EC Finals as well. In both series' he did it almost strictly via jumpshots. Dallas played tremendous defense on him, but his jumper was not the main culprit for his struggles...it was his refusal to assert himself in an aggressive way, his inability to take advantage of his defenders in the post, and his inability to hit the open areas of the court Dallas was giving him via offball cuts. I'll talk about this more in detail later in my post.

 

LeBron is not a stellar shooter. Boston nearly beat Miami because of that, until Bosh came back and gave Garnett someone to defend.

 

Huh? Boston almost beating Miami had NOTHING to do with LeBron. It was Bosh's absence, Wade's lackluster and inconsistent play, and the team having zero clue on knowing how to defend Rajon Rondo. And I don't know if you watched Game 6, but LeBron scored those 45pts primarily on difficult jumpers.

 

LeBron isn't a stellar shooter...that is correct. However, he has become a very good jumpshooter, and this season he learned to pick and choose his spots better, and cut down his 3pt attempts,,,the result? Shot a career high from the field, 3pt range, and TS%. Only 69% of his attempts this season were on jumpers, and he shot an EFG of 47.9% on them. To compare, 88% of Kobe's attempts were jumpers, and he had an EFG of 43.6% on those attempts.. Paul Pierce had 74% of his attempts made up of jumpers, and he had an EFG of 44.6% on them. 88% of Dirk's attempts were jumpers, and he had an EFG of 47.8% on them. 71% of Carmelo Anthony's attempts were jumpers, and he had an EFG of 41.0% on them. Durant had 82% of his attrempts made up of jumpers, and he had a blistering EFG of 51.6% on them.

 

What does all that say? That he takes less jumpers than his famous perimeter scoring peers...Kobe, Dirk, Durant, Pierce, Melo...and ONLY Durant was more efficient with his jumpers. That is over the course of a full regular season, not just a 5 game series. Considering that only Durant scored nearly as efficiently as LeBron did overall from the field and in terms of TS%, his gameplan has worked tremendously well.

 

 

 

LeBron's improvements this season as a scorer were amazing. He went to Hakeem last summer, and instead of learning a bunch of fancy post moves like most people who see Hakeem try to learn, he went on record and said he worked pretty much exclusively on his mentality as a post player, and increasing his comfort level. Last season I noticed that whenever he wanted to post someone up, even a guy as strong as Ron Artest. he got to whatever spot he wanted to on the floor. However, he would look awakward backing people down, rush his attempts, and would miss close shots that are a 1 on a 1-10 difficulty scale compared to many of his insane and-1 finishes when he gets a full head of steam driving to the rim. This season, however, he became absolutely lethal in the low post because of a few simple adjustments...he takes his time and doesn't rush a shot or move, he's made passing out of the post a legit option as opposed to last year where he was always only paying attention to making a scoring move, he no longer brings the ball down on face-ups when going for a shot, he's made the little turn around hook/floater an automatic go-to weapon... and my FAVORITE adjustment is when he is posting up smaller players, instead of crudely backing them down and risking an offensive foul as well as giving the help a chance to get into easy position, he now makes very quick spin moves which gives him an angle to use his strength while avoiding charges, makes it harder for the help to prepare, and helps him get a head-of-steam for a strong finish at the rim. On top of that new comfort level and simple, but highly effective adjustments in the post, he's also developed improved footwork, guards his dribble better, and has gotten better with his lefty hook and turnaround jumper.

 

Aside form his post improvement, he's also gotten FAR better at moving off-ball. The two cuts which he really ate other team's up this season was the baseline cut where the ball swing from the strong to weakside, and he makes a baseline cut to the weakside and catches the ball righr at the hoop. where he is able to finish over whatever shot-blocking big man who comes over to help. The other cut is the one he could have KILLED Dallas with last year in the Finals against zone/modified zone defense, where he cuts to right below the foul line, which is a soft spot in the zone, and with his improved floater/hook that he's practiced via his expanded post game, it's almost always an automatic two. These off-ball cuts have given him routes to get himself efficjent looks against zones and teams who overload on him when he's iso'ing beyond the 3pt line, which is a HUGE addition to his game. Also, by learning how to not just stand around when he doesn't have the ball, it keeps the offense from stagnating and forces the defense to always keep moving, which has opened things up for his teammates as well.

 

Lastly, as I said earlier in my post, he's made the simple choice to cut his 3pt attempts in half, and by pikcing his spots from out there more often, he shot a career high this season from beyond the arc. And by cutting down his 3pt attempts, and jumpers overall, his FG% rised to an unbelievable 53%, and a career high TS%.

 

Basically, I really don't understand your agenda, RD. If it was just to show OKC's inability to clog the paint (which i really don't see as topic-worthy, and I don't think that was the main point you were making, even if your point was subliminal), then you have to realize that a lot of it was the evolution I mentioned above in LeBron's game. Him posting up a lot, his ability to hit open spots in the defense via off-ball cuts and making quick moves out of those situations before the defense sets, etc.. If it was to still show that LeBron has a big hole in his game, I think my post kind of debunked that, both statistically and anlytically. With LeBron's strength, size, athleticism, and handles, he's never had to be a great jumpshooter to be able to score A LOT and do so at an efficient clip against ANY defense. He's only needed to have had a very good jumper, and he's had that for a few seasons now. The only thjing he needed to develop to beat a defense like the one Dallas threw at him last year was to find ways to take advantage of his strength/size/handles/athletcism/ability to finish without simply using PnR's and making straight drives to the rim from the perimeter. His new post game and ability to move off-ball has completely solved that final hole in his game.

[Flash]

I wonder if he goes back to Hakeem again this summer. Because while he posted up more, he still doesn't have any real moves to use down there.

[Nitro]

I wonder if he goes back to Hakeem again this summer. Because while he posted up more, he still doesn't have any real moves to use down there.

 

He doesn't need to. It'd be nice to add one more counter move, but in the context of his game, and with his physical tools, he doesn't need it.

[Real Deal]

Dallas played tremendous defense on him, but his jumper was not the main culprit for his struggles...it was his refusal to assert himself in an aggressive way, his inability to take advantage of his defenders in the post, and his inability to hit the open areas of the court Dallas was giving him via offball cuts. I'll talk about this more in detail later in my post.

You sound like Skip Bayless, and if you missed it, there's a video (posted today, on the site) of Mark Cuban basically tearing his theory to pieces. The way you put it, you're giving no credit to Dallas. LeBron didn't have a chance to get into the post against that Dallas team, because they had Marion on him, and Chandler coming over to help, and that's FAR different than Durant on LeBron, with Ibaka coming in late.

 

Huh? Boston almost beating Miami had NOTHING to do with LeBron. It was Bosh's absence, Wade's lackluster and inconsistent play, and the team having zero clue on knowing how to defend Rajon Rondo. And I don't know if you watched Game 6, but LeBron scored those 45pts primarily on difficult jumpers.

 

LeBron isn't a stellar shooter...that is correct. However, he has become a very good jumpshooter, and this season he learned to pick and choose his spots better, and cut down his 3pt attempts,,,the result? Shot a career high from the field, 3pt range, and TS%. Only 69% of his attempts this season were on jumpers, and he shot an EFG of 47.9% on them. To compare, 88% of Kobe's attempts were jumpers, and he had an EFG of 43.6% on those attempts.. Paul Pierce had 74% of his attempts made up of jumpers, and he had an EFG of 44.6% on them. 88% of Dirk's attempts were jumpers, and he had an EFG of 47.8% on them. 71% of Carmelo Anthony's attempts were jumpers, and he had an EFG of 41.0% on them. Durant had 82% of his attrempts made up of jumpers, and he had a blistering EFG of 51.6% on them.

 

What does all that say? That he takes less jumpers than his famous perimeter scoring peers...Kobe, Dirk, Durant, Pierce, Melo...and ONLY Durant was more efficient with his jumpers. That is over the course of a full regular season, not just a 5 game series. Considering that only Durant scored nearly as efficiently as LeBron did overall from the field and in terms of TS%, his gameplan has worked tremendously well.

 

 

 

LeBron's improvements this season as a scorer were amazing. He went to Hakeem last summer, and instead of learning a bunch of fancy post moves like most people who see Hakeem try to learn, he went on record and said he worked pretty much exclusively on his mentality as a post player, and increasing his comfort level. Last season I noticed that whenever he wanted to post someone up, even a guy as strong as Ron Artest. he got to whatever spot he wanted to on the floor. However, he would look awakward backing people down, rush his attempts, and would miss close shots that are a 1 on a 1-10 difficulty scale compared to many of his insane and-1 finishes when he gets a full head of steam driving to the rim. This season, however, he became absolutely lethal in the low post because of a few simple adjustments...he takes his time and doesn't rush a shot or move, he's made passing out of the post a legit option as opposed to last year where he was always only paying attention to making a scoring move, he no longer brings the ball down on face-ups when going for a shot, he's made the little turn around hook/floater an automatic go-to weapon... and my FAVORITE adjustment is when he is posting up smaller players, instead of crudely backing them down and risking an offensive foul as well as giving the help a chance to get into easy position, he now makes very quick spin moves which gives him an angle to use his strength while avoiding charges, makes it harder for the help to prepare, and helps him get a head-of-steam for a strong finish at the rim. On top of that new comfort level and simple, but highly effective adjustments in the post, he's also developed improved footwork, guards his dribble better, and has gotten better with his lefty hook and turnaround jumper.

 

Aside form his post improvement, he's also gotten FAR better at moving off-ball. The two cuts which he really ate other team's up this season was the baseline cut where the ball swing from the strong to weakside, and he makes a baseline cut to the weakside and catches the ball righr at the hoop. where he is able to finish over whatever shot-blocking big man who comes over to help. The other cut is the one he could have KILLED Dallas with last year in the Finals against zone/modified zone defense, where he cuts to right below the foul line, which is a soft spot in the zone, and with his improved floater/hook that he's practiced via his expanded post game, it's almost always an automatic two. These off-ball cuts have given him routes to get himself efficjent looks against zones and teams who overload on him when he's iso'ing beyond the 3pt line, which is a HUGE addition to his game. Also, by learning how to not just stand around when he doesn't have the ball, it keeps the offense from stagnating and forces the defense to always keep moving, which has opened things up for his teammates as well.

 

Lastly, as I said earlier in my post, he's made the simple choice to cut his 3pt attempts in half, and by pikcing his spots from out there more often, he shot a career high this season from beyond the arc. And by cutting down his 3pt attempts, and jumpers overall, his FG% rised to an unbelievable 53%, and a career high TS%.

 

Basically, I really don't understand your agenda, RD. If it was just to show OKC's inability to clog the paint (which i really don't see as topic-worthy, and I don't think that was the main point you were making, even if your point was subliminal), then you have to realize that a lot of it was the evolution I mentioned above in LeBron's game. Him posting up a lot, his ability to hit open spots in the defense via off-ball cuts and making quick moves out of those situations before the defense sets, etc.. If it was to still show that LeBron has a big hole in his game, I think my post kind of debunked that, both statistically and anlytically. With LeBron's strength, size, athleticism, and handles, he's never had to be a great jumpshooter to be able to score A LOT and do so at an efficient clip against ANY defense. He's only needed to have had a very good jumper, and he's had that for a few seasons now. The only thjing he needed to develop to beat a defense like the one Dallas threw at him last year was to find ways to take advantage of his strength/size/handles/athletcism/ability to finish without simply using PnR's and making straight drives to the rim from the perimeter. His new post game and ability to move off-ball has completely solved that final hole in his game.

All of that means one thing: LeBron doesn't want to settle for jumpers. That's exactly my point. Dallas forced him to, and that was the biggest reason why Miami got their asses handed to them last season.

 

I'm not sure why you posted all of that above. Are you trying to show me how efficient he is when he's taking less jumpers? That was obvious from the start, especially when he finally found his post game.

 

I don't have an agenda with LeBron, and I'm kind of sick of hearing it. The topic I provided (this one) was to show just how effective he was in the post/paint area, and that he did what he didn't do against Dallas.

 

Boston wasn't about to beat the Heat due to the reason I stated? LeBron wasn't getting where he wanted to on the court. He averaged under 4 assists per game in that series. In five of the seven games, he took single-digit free throw attempts, which was ridiculous when you consider the fact that Pierce was struggling to walk, and the Celtics had to stick Brandon Bass on him.

 

Outside of Game 6, LeBron was 25-83 FG (30%) shooting jumpshots in that Boston series. You're telling me that him shooting and missing that many jumpers wasn't an issue for the Heat, when that entire team was depending on LeBron to feed them their buckets by passing the ball out of his penetrations? No Bosh, and Wade was bipolar (in a basketball sense).

 

At one point, I was in the topics, saying that LeBron just didn't have enough help...but even though he didn't, he was still having to settle for jumpers, against a team that, really, had no chance of stopping him outside of Garnett contesting everything he put up, and it was Garnett that basically forced LeBron into those jumpers. You know that.