The Dwight Howard trade..

[TheNotoriousBANG]

Haha, you are severely overrating the picks that they got in the deal.

http://ht.ly/cU7va

You're telling me that you think those picks aren't garbage?

 

no i like those picks better

this format is better, their personal picks will be the lottery

 

and the picks from this draft though late late first round like picks 25 plus are perfect to find role players

 

you can't build a team just from top picks

 

you need picks 25-30 plus 2nd round picks to get quality role players and build a quality deep team. aka spurs and ginobili, dejaun blair etc

 

this is better than giving brook lopez the max money and being stuck in CAP hell

Edited August 11, 2012 by TheNotoriousBANG

[Check my Stats]

This will go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history, especially when you consider the context in which it happened (Dwight being a cunt), and even more so if it directly leads to LA winning a title or two.

 

I hated on the Houston offers, but it was infinitely better. Jeremy Lamb and that Raptors guaranteed lottery pick is >>>>> everything they came away with... nevermind whatever else Houston was sending. Even Brooklyn's was much better, getting a serviceable (albeit overpaid) center and a decent prospect in Brooks along with FOUR UNPROTECTED firsts would have been much better.

 

I realize their hands were tied, so if LA was the only suitable destination I guess it would be easier to swallow. What is hard to swallow is the fact that they took the worst of the 3 offers that they could have, for no explainable reason. The fact that those 3 picks are all so heavily protected, they literally traded a hall of fame big man, and the best big man post-Shaq, for literally nothing.

 

Its unbelievable. Like I said in the other thread, its the only word I can think of to describe it. The NBA has serious issues.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Check my Stats

[TheNotoriousBANG]

People don't realize

 

no sane team wants Brook Lopez at the max contract

that is gonna set a franchise back for years, and it might get them some unwanted wins in the way hurting their draft status at the same time

[JMEWLS]

A trade could have been agreed upon and then executed in late August. Houston had a trade on the table involving their rookies late in the Dwightmare but for whatever reason, Hennigan preferred the Afflalo package.

I've always questioned the validity of that though. Seriously if they had a deal similar to what was said he obviously would've executed with it. But he didn't. Hennigan obviously isn't that dumb. He's taking the best offer we could get. I think we potentially could've gotten better, but it's not that bad.

 

In short, I don't even think the Rockets talks where that big.

[JMEWLS]

Put it this way.

 

The Magic traded the best player, didn't receive either the 2nd or 3rd best player traded and took on arguably the two worst contracts in Harrington and Afflalo.

 

I like Afflalo, but his PER is below league average and he makes around $8M a season for another 3 years if I'm not mistaken.

 

That alone should tell you what to think of this trade.

 

EDIT: I actually forgot about Richardson, so they took on arguably 2 of the 3 worst contracts.

Afflalo isn't that bad of a player, I don't like his contract but in the long term I think he's part of the Magic. Harrington will be dealt by the start of the season mark my words. His last 2 years are 50% guaranteed so I'd imagine that his going to be bought out by the end of this season if nothing falls into place.

 

We lost Richardson/Duhon which is good enough for me. Now if Hennigan can move Qrich for some cap relief I'm gonna be even happier.

[JMEWLS]

+ People are ceasing to realize the whole plan of why we where trading. Hennigan is aware that he could've gone ahead with the Nets deal but it lands us in mediocrity for the next 5 years and it just leaves us back at square one. The whole deal was designed to get cap relief and a few young players. We're starting from scratch and gonna work again to become a contender , it's a risky move but it's gonna pay off if it's executed correctly.

 

I think we pulled on this trade because it's obvious we need to rebuild and we're already looking to this years draft. If we land the number 1 pick this year or even the number 2 things will be looking a lot better.

[Teletopez]

+ People are ceasing to realize the whole plan of why we where trading. Hennigan is aware that he could've gone ahead with the Nets deal but it lands us in mediocrity for the next 5 years and it just leaves us back at square one. The whole deal was designed to get cap relief and a few young players. We're starting from scratch and gonna work again to become a contender , it's a risky move but it's gonna pay off if it's executed correctly.

That is precisely what the Nets were offering, except even better. They arranged several deals in which Orlando would have been getting more cap relief with a shorter wait than they will receive through this deal. If the Magic were serious about doing a deal with the Nets but did not want to take on a big contract for Lopez, they could've worked out his being sent to a third team. At least one team was interested in considering that.

 

I do not support any logic with taking on Afflalo. He is a brilliant role player, but his presence on the Magic goes against everything they are looking to do, both in terms of his contract length and his age.

[Real Deal]

That is precisely what the Nets were offering, except even better. They arranged several deals in which Orlando would have been getting more cap relief with a shorter wait than they will receive through this deal. If the Magic were serious about doing a deal with the Nets but did not want to take on a big contract for Lopez, they could've worked out his being sent to a third team. At least one team was interested in considering that.

 

I do not support any logic with taking on Afflalo. He is a brilliant role player, but his presence on the Magic goes against everything they are looking to do, both in terms of his contract length and his age.

They could have sent Lopez elsewhere, but they also had to find a team to send Humphries to. That meant that the Nets would have had to send two oversized contracts out to two other teams aside from Orlando, and that would have been tough to do.

 

I truly believe the Nets had it all in the bag at one point, but Humphries wanted that long-term deal from Cleveland or Charlotte (can't remember which team now), and that tanked the entire trade.

 

Brooklyn was caught up in the moment, and found themselves in a desperate situation to do whatever they could to keep D-Will. Gerald Wallace may have been a good signing in your books, same with the Joe Johnson trade, but once the Nets lost even the slightest cap space, enough to demand a full salary-matching trade, that was it...because they had two assets (Lopez and Hump) that were also looking for those new deals, and it hinged on teams actually agreeing to those deals.

 

Few teams would want Lopez on a max year, max money deal...and Humphries for four years (what he was reportedly asking for when he was on the verge of being moved) was out of this world for Cleveland and Charlotte.

 

From the last deadline on, I always had a feeling that Howard to Brooklyn was going to be a sticky situation...never really had faith in it. I'd say maybe for one day, right before Lopez was given his deal, I was sold...but that's it.

[EastCoastNiner]

This will go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history, especially when you consider the context in which it happened (Dwight being a cunt), and even more so if it directly leads to LA winning a title or two.

 

I hated on the Houston offers, but it was infinitely better. Jeremy Lamb and that Raptors guaranteed lottery pick is >>>>> everything they came away with... nevermind whatever else Houston was sending. Even Brooklyn's was much better, getting a serviceable (albeit overpaid) center and a decent prospect in Brooks along with FOUR UNPROTECTED firsts would have been much better.

 

I realize their hands were tied, so if LA was the only suitable destination I guess it would be easier to swallow. What is hard to swallow is the fact that they took the worst of the 3 offers that they could have, for no explainable reason. The fact that those 3 picks are all so heavily protected, they literally traded a hall of fame big man, and the best big man post-Shaq, for literally nothing.

 

Its unbelievable. Like I said in the other thread, its the only word I can think of to describe it. The NBA has serious issues.

 

Do you mind telling me when the Magic traded Yao?

[Universe]

People don't realize

 

no sane team wants Brook Lopez at the max contract

that is gonna set a franchise back for years, and it might get them some unwanted wins in the way hurting their draft status at the same time

Trading for a 24-year-old center who had amazing chemistry with Ryan Anderson and absolutely loves Orlando would set the Magic back for years but giving up their once-in-a-decade franchise player for draft picks and the hope of luring free agents isn't?

 

Reports are Magic weren't going to trade with the Nets anyways due to the fact they thought the Nets were tampering so instead hand the player who disrespected their franchise to an instant championship squad.

[TheNotoriousBANG]

Getting Brook Lopez on a max deal for 5 years wasn't better...Orl has over 20 mill in cap space in 2014 now.

[Universe]

Getting Brook Lopez on a max deal for 5 years wasn't better...Orl has over 20 mill in cap space in 2014 now.

For who?

[Teletopez]

I wouldn't discredit the idea that Orlando was stringing the Nets along in order to get better deals from other teams. After seeing how much they were pushing for in terms of cap relief and loading up on picks without ever solving the roadblocks and coming to a resolution, and when comparing that to what they settled for in this deal, it's a very realistic possibility. Did the Nets make multiple questionable moves to create those roadblocks? Absolutely. But even through all of that, Hennigan could have simplified the deal if the value from the completed trade was all he was looking for.

Edited August 12, 2012 by #HelloBrooklyn

[Real Deal]

I wouldn't discredit the idea that Orlando was stringing the Nets along in order to get better deals from other teams. After seeing how much they were pushing for in terms of cap relief and loading up on picks without ever solving the roadblocks and coming to a resolution, and when comparing that to what they settled for in this deal, it's a very realistic possibility. Did the Nets make multiple questionable moves to create those roadblocks? Absolutely. But even through all of that, Hennigan could have simplified the deal if the value from the completed trade was all he was looking for.

Well, keep in mind that Hennigan wasn't the only guy that turned down the Nets in a trade for Dwight.

 

At the end of the day, if Orlando found a way to get Drew back in the deal...well, that would have been better than taking Lopez and picks, because truthfully, nobody knew who those picks would be, and Bynum is three times the player Lopez is.

 

Same with Houston. I would take Bynum over their three draft picks (Lamb, White, and Jones if already selected...or just the three picks given pre-draft).

 

I'm just wondering if Orlando found themselves caught up after not being able to make that trade with Brooklyn (it seemed like, suddenly, they only had hours to make it before a team or two would hand Lopez an offer sheet and ruin everything) and not working out a deal with Houston for the picks post-draft (maybe having trouble landing Motiejunas, who knows really).

 

If that was the case, the Magic had just one option left: trade Dwight to a team he will consider re-signing to, and do it before the season starts. That removes Brooklyn from the list (simply because they can't come up with the contracts to make that deal anymore) and Houston never did get Dwight's word that he would consider coming back.

 

I know everyone is trying to speculate how this went down, but as it stands, what does anyone really know to begin with? Orlando just made a trade that nobody could predict would happen...not even me. They dealt Dwight without returning a franchise player (Drew), and the picks were all protected.

 

Mitch Kupchak was patient, like he has been for years, and it paid off. He took a step back and realized that Brooklyn had a very small window of opportunity, and teams like Houston and other trading partners (ex. Cleveland) would swoop in and make a 3/4 team trade tough. With two vital contracts in the air (Lopez and Hump), and both needing to be included in the deal...that, alone is unheard of. I can't remember a time where two non-all star players were dealt in sign-and-trades and handed undeserving contracts, to two different teams, for someone else.

[Universe]

Mitch Kupchak was patient, like he has been for years, and it paid off. He took a step back and realized that Brooklyn had a very small window of opportunity, and teams like Houston and other trading partners (ex. Cleveland) would swoop in and make a 3/4 team trade tough. With two vital contracts in the air (Lopez and Hump), and both needing to be included in the deal...that, alone is unheard of. I can't remember a time where two non-all star players were dealt in sign-and-trades and handed undeserving contracts, to two different teams, for someone else.

The reason why Lopez was signed at that time was because teams were prepared to offer the max. People always look at the negatives so closely with his game that they forget he could easily turn into a top five center. Humphries is also a pretty decent basketball player too and is only paid so high for shorter years which is what caused problems in making a trade. The thing is Hump was expiring this year and we had one of the worst records at the deadline and Orlando turned every offer down. If the report about Orlando being pissed because of tampering is true, Orlando missed out huge missing out on Lopez, Brooks and Damian Lillard, plus more picks.

[Dash]

I've always questioned the validity of that though. Seriously if they had a deal similar to what was said he obviously would've executed with it. But he didn't. Hennigan obviously isn't that dumb. He's taking the best offer we could get. I think we potentially could've gotten better, but it's not that bad.

 

In short, I don't even think the Rockets talks where that big.

 

No talks were definitely serious, nothing out there discredits that. Hennigan turned down the Rockets' package for whatever reason.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Dash

[Check my Stats]

Do you mind telling me when the Magic traded Yao?

 

Ok pointforwardguy.

[EastCoastNiner]

Ok pointforwardguy.

 

Ah, another one who thinks D12 is better than Yao (or was). That's laughable. .

Edited August 13, 2012 by EastCoastNiner

[Lkr]

Ah, another one who thinks D12 is better than Yao (or was). That's laughable. .

ecn you don't know shit about basketball just stop

[Real Deal]

The reason why Lopez was signed at that time was because teams were prepared to offer the max. People always look at the negatives so closely with his game that they forget he could easily turn into a top five center. Humphries is also a pretty decent basketball player too and is only paid so high for shorter years which is what caused problems in making a trade. The thing is Hump was expiring this year and we had one of the worst records at the deadline and Orlando turned every offer down. If the report about Orlando being pissed because of tampering is true, Orlando missed out huge missing out on Lopez, Brooks and Damian Lillard, plus more picks.

That's what I meant by the small window of opportunity. There were two teams (forgot which two) that were going to make an attempt to get Lopez to sign an offer sheet...so even if it was or wasn't a max deal, it wouldn't have mattered if Lopez would have signed. We see the way teams do overpay for big men now, so more than likely, yes...it would have been max from one of those two teams.

 

As far as Humphries goes, nah...don't think he's worth a four-year deal for the amount of money he was wanting. Brooklyn got away with giving him what...two years? I'm not even sure if that was on the table for Cleveland. Talk was that it was three or four, and the Cavaliers only wanted him for one season.

 

Those small things, though, are deal-breakers. If Cleveland and Kris had come to an agreement on a two-year deal (meet in the middle, basically), Howard may have been dealt hours before that "deadline" that was set last month.

[JMEWLS]

That is precisely what the Nets were offering, except even better. They arranged several deals in which Orlando would have been getting more cap relief with a shorter wait than they will receive through this deal. If the Magic were serious about doing a deal with the Nets but did not want to take on a big contract for Lopez, they could've worked out his being sent to a third team. At least one team was interested in considering that.

 

I do not support any logic with taking on Afflalo. He is a brilliant role player, but his presence on the Magic goes against everything they are looking to do, both in terms of his contract length and his age.

Lopez on a max deal for how many years?? 4 or 5 isn't exactly my idea of cap relief. Nor rebuilding.

[JMEWLS]

No talks were definitely serious, nothing out there discredits that. Hennigan turned down the Rockets' package for whatever reason.

We'll never know. I'm guessing Hennigan is rebuilding from the free agency and draft, if so this trade was our best option.

[TheNotoriousBANG]

Ah, another one who thinks D12 is better than Yao (or was). That's laughable. .

 

exavtly how many defensive player of the year awards did yao win again ?

[Universe]

Lopez on a max deal for how many years?? 4 or 5 isn't exactly my idea of cap relief. Nor rebuilding.

Thing is though I'd take the 24-year-old Lopez at 12.6 mil than the 27-year-old Afflalo at 6.7 mil for another five years especially if rebuilding. Big men are rare (Howard one of the rarest) compared to shooting guards and the deal included MarShon Brooks, the 23-year-old who put up nearly similar numbers to Afflalo in his first year in the league.

 

At the time of the trade I understand the Nets offer was tricky but even turning down Andrew Bynum seems like not the greatest idea. They could have had the cap relief, plus those players, first round draft choices including a top five overall draft pick for that in the hopes of signing (look at the Magic history or luring in stars) talent and rebuilding for the future.

[Teletopez]

Well, keep in mind that Hennigan wasn't the only guy that turned down the Nets in a trade for Dwight.

 

At the end of the day, if Orlando found a way to get Drew back in the deal...well, that would have been better than taking Lopez and picks, because truthfully, nobody knew who those picks would be, and Bynum is three times the player Lopez is.

 

Same with Houston. I would take Bynum over their three draft picks (Lamb, White, and Jones if already selected...or just the three picks given pre-draft).

 

I'm just wondering if Orlando found themselves caught up after not being able to make that trade with Brooklyn (it seemed like, suddenly, they only had hours to make it before a team or two would hand Lopez an offer sheet and ruin everything) and not working out a deal with Houston for the picks post-draft (maybe having trouble landing Motiejunas, who knows really).

 

If that was the case, the Magic had just one option left: trade Dwight to a team he will consider re-signing to, and do it before the season starts. That removes Brooklyn from the list (simply because they can't come up with the contracts to make that deal anymore) and Houston never did get Dwight's word that he would consider coming back.

 

I know everyone is trying to speculate how this went down, but as it stands, what does anyone really know to begin with? Orlando just made a trade that nobody could predict would happen...not even me. They dealt Dwight without returning a franchise player (Drew), and the picks were all protected.

 

Mitch Kupchak was patient, like he has been for years, and it paid off. He took a step back and realized that Brooklyn had a very small window of opportunity, and teams like Houston and other trading partners (ex. Cleveland) would swoop in and make a 3/4 team trade tough. With two vital contracts in the air (Lopez and Hump), and both needing to be included in the deal...that, alone is unheard of. I can't remember a time where two non-all star players were dealt in sign-and-trades and handed undeserving contracts, to two different teams, for someone else.

Hennigan wasn't the only guy, but it was still the same ownership influencing the whole process.

 

You're right about the flawed speculation over what really happened, though. Props to Kupchak for doing what he has always does and swooping in at this time to complete the trade.