How will the Atlantic division play out?

[Cleveland's Finest]

I forgot Bargnani was moving up to PF with Jonas there. You're right about that then.

[Hayes1]

lmao so that means Lowry is better than Curry, Wall, Jennings. No way in hell

[Built Ford Tough]

lmao so that means Lowry is better than Curry, Wall, Jennings. No way in hell

 

Name one thing other than jack up bricks that Jennings does better than Lowry.

 

I'll save you the trouble, there is nothing.

 

I've never seen a guy live off of one good month in his rookie season more than Jennings. The guy is not a good player, yet people talk about him like he has star potential.

 

As far as Wall goes, if he improves his jumper and decision making than he is without a doubt better than Lowry. The problem is, he still plays at basically one speed and can't shoot to save his life (dude shot about 27% from outside of 3 feet this past season). I have faith that Wall will improve these areas of his game but since I can only go off of what I saw last season, yeah, I'd say heading into next year Kyle Lowry is a better player than John Wall for the immediate future.

 

Would I take Lowry over Wall to build a franchise? Of course not, but that doesn't mean he isn't the better player heading into next season.

 

As far as Curry goes, the guy is always hurt. Talent wise he may have Lowry beat (although Lowry is about 10X the defensive player Curry is) but what good is that talent if all it takes is for you to roll your ankle one time and miss the rest of the season.

 

But of course, those guys are big names so of course, they are vastly superior players than Lowry regardless of the fact that he had a better season than all three of them each of the past two seasons with Curry's 10/11 season being the lone exception.

 

Again, though, the problem with Curry isn't the talent, it his his potentially red flag ankles. I do agree that a healthy Curry is better than Lowry.

[Hayes1]

Scores more lol

 

Now Brandon you can argue. I agree with you on that though don't really see much of Brandon unless he shows me he can do more than jack up shots.

 

But Curry and Wall Hell to the No. Going to next season even.

 

We already know about Wall's Offense game but Wall doesn't even have a jumper, yet scores more than Lowry. Image if he develops one. I'll take Wall's D and Passing skills over Lowry last season, I'll take Wall offense over Lowry last season too. Wall needs improving too though needs to develop a jumper and need to work on change of speed, decision making, controlling the game. IMO Wall played better than Lowry last season (even though Wall season wasn't that good) and will go into next season better.

 

I know about Curry he is hurt, Needs to stay healthy I agree but even while Hurt and played less games he still played better than Lowry last season.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Hayes1

[Built Ford Tough]

Scores more lol

 

Now Brandon you can argue. I agree with you on that though don't really see much of Brandon unless he shows me he can do more than jack up shots.

 

The only reason he scores more is because he jacks up 17 shots a game and his poor TS% (51%) reflects that. He may score at a higher volume, but Lowry is a much, much more efficient player.

 

There really is nothing to argue. Kyle Lowry is simply a better player than Brandon Jennings. Even if you want to say that Jennings can score the ball bettter (and, personally, I think it is only because of his trigger happy playing style) that isn't nearly enough to make up for Lowry being a much better playmaker, a significantly better rebounder and a monumentally better defender.

 

We already know about Wall's Offense game but Wall doesn't even have a jumper, yet scores more than Lowry. Image if he develops one. I'll take Wall's D and Passing skills over Lowry last season, I'll take Wall offense over Lowry last season too. Wall needs improving too though needs to develop a jumper and need to work on change of speed, decision making, controlling the game. IMO Wall played better than Lowry last season (even though Wall season wasn't that good) and will go into next season better.

 

Again, you are looking purely at raw scoring numbers and not digging deep enough.

 

Sure, Wall may score more than Lowry, but he also played 4 more minutes a night and took 2.6 more shots a game (not to mention 1.9 more free throws a game as well). That is, on average, the potential for Wall to score 7.1 more points a game than Lowry, yet Wall only scored 2 more points than Lowry did.

 

Call me crazy, but I'd take 14.3 ppg with a TS% of 55.8% over 16.3 ppg with a TS% of 50.2% every single time.

 

As for playmaking, yeah, Wall does have Lowry beat in that regard. I've got no trouble admitting that.

 

As an overall floor general, though, Lowry is, at this point in time, better. He doesn't have nearly as many moments where he over dribbles, stagnates the offense, drives recklessly into traffic or makes poor decicisions that lead to turnovers. Of course, that should be expected given Lowry has been in the league for a while and Wall is just entering his 3rd season, but it obviously plays a factor into deciding who is the better player at this specific point in time.

 

Given the fact that he is a much more efficient offensive player, runs a team better and is a better defender (Wall has the potential to be an elite defender at the point, Lowry is already an elite point defender), I'd take Lowry over Wall if I'm looking at things from purely a single season standpoint.

 

Just look at the numbers and everything points to Lowry being better than Wall.

 

Lowry's PER - 18.9

Wall's PER - 17.7

 

Lowry's ORTG - 111

Wall's ORTG - 100

 

Lowry's DRTG - 104

Wall's DRGT - 107

 

Lowry's WS - 4.9

Wall's WS - 3.5

 

In two years time? I'd be surprised if Wall isn't better but right now that isn't the case.

 

I know about Curry he is hurt, Needs to stay healthy I agree but even while Hurt and played less games he still played better than Lowry last season.

 

That begs the question, though, is having Curry's production for half the season more valuable than Lowry's for 70 games? Sure, Curry may play better when he is on the floor, but that gets negated by the fact that he is only on the floor half the season.

 

His talent doesn't really help the team much when he is sitting on the bench in a suit.

[Hayes1]

The only reason he scores more is because he jacks up 17 shots a game and his poor TS% (51%) reflects that. He may score at a higher volume, but Lowry is a much, much more efficient player.

 

There really is nothing to argue. Kyle Lowry is simply a better player than Brandon Jennings. Even if you want to say that Jennings can score the ball bettter (and, personally, I think it is only because of his trigger happy playing style) that isn't nearly enough to make up for Lowry being a much better playmaker, a significantly better rebounder and a monumentally better defender.

 

 

 

Again, you are looking purely at raw scoring numbers and not digging deep enough.

 

Sure, Wall may score more than Lowry, but he also played 4 more minutes a night and took 2.6 more shots a game (not to mention 1.9 more free throws a game as well). That is, on average, the potential for Wall to score 7.1 more points a game than Lowry, yet Wall only scored 2 more points than Lowry did.

 

Call me crazy, but I'd take 14.3 ppg with a TS% of 55.8% over 16.3 ppg with a TS% of 50.2% every single time.

 

As for playmaking, yeah, Wall does have Lowry beat in that regard. I've got no trouble admitting that.

 

As an overall floor general, though, Lowry is, at this point in time, better. He doesn't have nearly as many moments where he over dribbles, stagnates the offense, drives recklessly into traffic or makes poor decicisions that lead to turnovers. Of course, that should be expected given Lowry has been in the league for a while and Wall is just entering his 3rd season, but it obviously plays a factor into deciding who is the better player at this specific point in time.

 

Given the fact that he is a much more efficient offensive player, runs a team better and is a better defender (Wall has the potential to be an elite defender at the point, Lowry is already an elite point defender), I'd take Lowry over Wall if I'm looking at things from purely a single season standpoint.

 

Just look at the numbers and everything points to Lowry being better than Wall.

 

Lowry's PER - 18.9

Wall's PER - 17.7

 

Lowry's ORTG - 111

Wall's ORTG - 100

 

Lowry's DRTG - 104

Wall's DRGT - 107

 

Lowry's WS - 4.9

Wall's WS - 3.5

 

In two years time? I'd be surprised if Wall isn't better but right now that isn't the case.

 

 

 

That begs the question, though, is having Curry's production for half the season more valuable than Lowry's for 70 games? Sure, Curry may play better when he is on the floor, but that gets negated by the fact that he is only on the floor half the season.

 

His talent doesn't really help the team much when he is sitting on the bench in a suit.

 

I'll agree about brandon we are on the same page with that. I was just joking too on the score more, I kno why he scores more too lol

 

Wall, I can agree now, Lowry played better than Wall last season a little, but I bet with a better team wall has now, he does better this upcoming season. Lowry had the better team than Wall too. Of course Lowry will have a better TS, Wall doesn't have a jumper and ORtg. Not every player with a high ORtg is better than ones with lower ORtgs. Players who have both a high ORtg (>110) and a high %Poss (>23) are offensive stars; players with a high ORtg and a low %Poss (<17) are good role players. Wall's are 110- 24 Lowry are 111-22. I'll give the advantage to Lowry though. I agree though he ain't a floor general yet but he can get there. Lowry wasn't the better defender last year either. But I agree with you and I think everything you said about each players are on point. I can see that Lowry played better than Wall now. Wall needs to develop a jumper bad, 7% from beyond the arc is just awful.

 

I agree, but Curry still played better though. But I would rather have someone who can play 70 games than just 23 games.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Hayes1

[Built Ford Tough]

I don't want to harp on this much longer and since I can understand where you are coming from on most fronts, I'l just let it go.

 

However, there is one thing that I just can't understand. What exactly makes you think Wall is a better defender than Lowry? I'm seriously struggling to see anything that woud make me think that Wall is a better defender than Lowry. Wall has a long way to go before he shoud be mentioned with an upper-echelon point guard defender like Lowry.

 

He has the physical tools to get there one day, but his defense has been one of the weaker parts of his game since he came into the league. Hell, it was one of the weaker parts of his game when he was in college as well.

 

I'm just not seeing anything from Wall that woud make me think that at this point in time he is even on the same level defensively as Lowry is, let alone being superior.

[AboveLegit]

Wall is an average defender at best right now. He has a long way to go.

[Hayes1]

I don't want to harp on this much longer and since I can understand where you are coming from on most fronts, I'l just let it go.

 

However, there is one thing that I just can't understand. What exactly makes you think Wall is a better defender than Lowry? I'm seriously struggling to see anything that woud make me think that Wall is a better defender than Lowry. Wall has a long way to go before he shoud be mentioned with an upper-echelon point guard defender like Lowry.

 

He has the physical tools to get there one day, but his defense has been one of the weaker parts of his game since he came into the league. Hell, it was one of the weaker parts of his game when he was in college as well.

 

I'm just not seeing anything from Wall that woud make me think that at this point in time he is even on the same level defensively as Lowry is, let alone being superior.

 

Never once have I said he was a better defender than Lowry, I said he played better defensively than him last year. I already know he is an average defender, I don't disagree.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Hayes1