Lakers vs Heat

[Real Deal]

But the one thing Steve Nash is best at? Pick and roles, Miami excells at guarding pick and roles.

Just so you know...

 

Last year, on a team where Marcin Gortat was the second-best player on the team and the rest of the roster was at best inconsistent and at worst a hot mess, Steve Nash‘s passes out of the pick and roll lead to scoring 59.5% of the time, which was best among players with 100 possessions, according to Synergy Sports. So he was literally the best pick and roll passer in the league.

 

Last year, on a team where Jameer Nelson had injury issues, the entire team has chemistry problems related to the ongoing drama, and the offense was primarily geared around perimeter shooters (oh, and he was injured), Dwight Howard scored as the pick and roll man 73.7% of the time, which was best in the league.

 

So they have literally paired the best pick and roll passing guard with the best pick and roll finisher in the league.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/14/the-inbounds-nash-howard-and-an-impossible-sword

 

This could be one of the best pick-and-roll duos the league has seen in decades, and it doesn't include Kobe, Gasol OR Jamison.

 

I'm sure you guys have defended Howard well in the past, but that's Dwight without much help. You're replacing Nelson, Anderson, and J-Rich with Nash, Gasol and Kobe.

 

If you aren't worried about this slow, old Lakers team...I'm assuming you weren't worried about that slow, old Dallas team in 2011.

[Real Deal]

They said the same thing about Hibbert, and he destroyed the Heat when they had stiffs on him at center. Instead, what worked was a smaller lineup that was able to bother passes into the post, be pests and force him to work on defense.

 

Not saying Dwight is on Hibbert's level or his cast is on the level the Pacers were, but you don't beat guys like Howard or the Lakers just by throwing big bodies at him. I think Darko would be a nice addition, but the offense will take a huge hit with him getting big minutes over more versatile, well-rounded players at center.

I can't even seriously begin to talk about Hibbert right now. Working him over on the defensive end is something all teams try to do, because it not only wears him down, but it also puts him into foul trouble almost 100% of the time. When Hibbert started to look dominant, Miami adjusted...but they aren't going to be able to do that to the Lakers. As you noted, the supporting cast is definitely not the same, and again, those passes are going to be hard to pick off (or prevent) with the Princeton + these scoring options, because the floor will HAVE to be spread out. LeBron is fast, but he doesn't have a 10-foot wingspan to cover that ground.

 

Defending the Lakers offense is gonna be a bitch, but they still have holes. Kobe and Artest still aren't great spot-up shooters, and Gasol doesn't have legitimate 3pt range, so once again they will only have one guy to hit those open 3's with a collapsed defense.

Ron shot 40% from three in the last month or two of the season, and it was right after he stated he was healthy (posted about it on Twitter), so I believe him 100% when he says he was injured. For the first few months, he was absolutely horrible...to the point where I figured he was drinking before every game, shooting 20% or worse from three (was at 17% at one point).

 

So, we have Nash, Ron, Blake and Goudelock shooting threes (Goudelock will see a little more time, I'm sure, especially with this offense). Blake is a career 39% 3PT shooter, and had his second bad season last year (the first being a long time ago), so I'm going to expect a higher percentage. Jamison can stretch the floor, shooting around 34-35% from three...so we'll have two three-point threats in our starting five, and 2-3 off the bench.

 

They are still unathletic at the wings, and against Miami that will be a big issue. If Iguodala, Pierce, and Deng couldn't defend LeBron efficiently, I doubt an old Ron Artest will. Kobe will have dificulty defending Wade on PnR's and on off-ball cuts, and Ray Allen will be a difficult matchup as well. In transition, Lakers have NO WAY of defending Miami, and Nash won't have many options on the fastbreak to make that an effective strategy against most teams.

Nobody can defend LeBron in an ISO, but if I had to pick one guy to hold him when he's posting up, it's Ron Artest...and I think you'd stick him up there as well. If we have Ron defending him when he posts up, and Howard/Gasol waiting for him in the paint, I'm confident we can prevent him from absolutely obliterating us.

 

Wade is still a good player, but most of Kobe's defensive lapses come when he's roaming, and he gets lazy. People have talked shit about him for years when it comes to that. I doubt he'll be roaming as much. Wade struggled big time with Kobe back in March, anyway, while Kobe had his way with him on offense as well. I'm not concerned with Wade.

 

We'll get killed on transition, that's a given. All teams get raped by Miami when they are running.

 

Ray Allen won't be a problem because we're going to stick Blake on him again. Blake and Fisher decided to tail him every time we played the Celtics, and it wasn't an issue for us (until Fisher was frustrated with his 0-7 shooting, and let Allen get away a couple of times, but he still shot average in that game, poorly in the other). Ray will be spotting up much more, too, and he's definitely not used to standing around and waiting for someone like LeBron to find him. Allen's big gripe about the three-point contest was that he wasn't able to come off a screen and shoot those threes. It's almost rare to see a player try and create for a teammate (by penetration, for instance) who is coming off a screen and creating his own space...Mark Jackson couldn't even do that with Reggie effectively.

 

And I'd MUCHHHHH rather see Gasol on the low block against LeBron than on the perimeter. He won't be able to put the ball on the floor against LeBron without his back to he basket, and in the post he'd be able to get any shot off without too much interferance. However, if LeBron-Gasol is a matchup that occurs, the Lakers are SCREWED...Gasol cannot guard LeBron in any situation, and if they switch Gasol onto one of their shooters because of that fact (Battier, for instance), that will also be a big issue.

Gasol can't even get on the low block with LeBron defending him. Bron is too strong, just pushes him right out of position, or he'll front him and jump ten feet in the air to disrupt the pass. Gasol will have the ball a lot in the high post, where he can analyze the defense and find cutters, or get the ball to Howard in whatever position he can get himself into (whether he's being fronted, or he's stepping out to try and face up, whatever the case).

 

Gasol will never defend LeBron. I'm going to assume that Mike Brown will make sure of that, by directing Howard to step out instead. Gasol will go out and do what he can against, say, Battier...while Howard stays at home with Bosh. Can't see that as an issue because Battier does nothing but spot up, and Gasol will step out, just like he has plenty of times with Ray Allen (and he has blocked Ray more times than I can think of anyone blocking another Celtic player from this team, honestly...especially at the end of games). I haven't seen another Laker block more three-point shots than Gasol since Kobe in his prime.

 

As I said before, the key to beating the Lakers is the same as it was last season...athleticism. Not just in the open court, but everywhere. Miami will have a pretty big athletic advantage at at least 4 of the 5 positions, and will be more versatile as a unit on defense. Now that they have such a strong small-ball lineup that isn't so small because of LeBron, and one that's made even stronger with Ray Allen, they will NOT be easy to defend. I still think LA looks better on paper, but Miami will have a very strong chance of beating them in a series.

Miami will never be easy to defend, but I just don't see how the Heat are going to stop the Lakers. Even with what we had last season, I think we would have taken the Heat to six games, doing better than the Thunder did. Miami would have won, of course, but I think we would have pulled away with two and beat them the same way we did back in March.

 

I always like to go back to the last two seasons. Are the Heat really that athletic? Wade has been slower for a couple of seasons now. LeBron and Bosh are really the only two athletic players in Miami (that are significant). Battier, Allen, Miller...they are far from it. Miami's average age was actually higher than LA's last season. Dallas, who had one of the oldest teams I've ever seen in 2011 (not really, but yeah), didn't have to run to beat the Heat...they sat back and played excellent basketball on both ends of the floor, found a way to use Chandler (Dwight) to keep LeBron out of the paint and Marion (Artest) to keep him out of the post, and forced him to take jumpers (in the 2012 NBA Finals, by the way, LeBron shot 18% on jumpers).

 

Then, not too long ago, the Thunder (who you could argue are more athletic, collectively, and are by far the younger team...they lost in five games because Miami decided to attack their weaknesses (aka just stuck LeBron in the post, and used Bosh to stretch the floor).

 

LA upgraded at the two positions Miami has trouble defending. They installed an offense that can fit perfectly with everyone on their team. They have ways to score from every single spot on the floor with superstar-esque scoring (which is rare...saw that from Boston in 2008, Showtime Lakers in the 80's).

 

I think Miami has a reason to be concerned, just as much as the Lakers should have been in 2008. I mean, I still think the Heat should be worried about the Celtics and a possible seven-game series (because I think Jason Terry can be a bit more of a problem than Ray was, and a returning Bradley will cause problems as well), and even Chicago, if D-Rose comes back really early...so why would they look the other way?

[The Artesticle]

Ron shot 40% from three in the last month or two of the season, and it was right after he stated he was healthy (posted about it on Twitter), so I believe him 100% when he says he was injured. For the first few months, he was absolutely horrible...to the point where I figured he was drinking before every game, shooting 20% or worse from three (was at 17% at one point).

ron was injured to start the season. because of the lockout he couldnt use any of the team facilities or doctors which was why he started off the season playing so poorly. when he finally started getting healthy towards the latter part of the season his play improved drastically. not worried about him at all.

 

So, we have Nash, Ron, Blake and Goudelock shooting threes (Goudelock will see a little more time, I'm sure, especially with this offense). Blake is a career 39% 3PT shooter, and had his second bad season last year (the first being a long time ago), so I'm going to expect a higher percentage. Jamison can stretch the floor, shooting around 34-35% from three...so we'll have two three-point threats in our starting five, and 2-3 off the bench.

just a correction , jodie meeks is replacing goudelock. upgrade for us since meeks is a much better shooter/scorer. he will thrive with the amount of open looks he will get playing alongside nash/kobe/pau/dwight

[Real Deal]

just a correction , jodie meeks is replacing goudelock. upgrade for us since meeks is a much better shooter/scorer. he will thrive with the amount of open looks he will get playing alongside nash/kobe/pau/dwight

Completely forgot about Meeks. I'm still trying to get used to Howard, Nash and Jamison, lol. He's a 37-38% 3PT shooter as well, I believe.

 

Not really sure if he's a better three-point shooter than Goudelock, though...because Goudelock was actually better than anyone else in that draft class (better than Jimmer), but as it stands, as an NBA player, you have to consider it. Goudelock will get a lot of open shots when he does rake in a few minutes, though, that's for certain.

[Warren2ThaG]

Completely forgot about Meeks. I'm still trying to get used to Howard, Nash and Jamison, lol. He's a 37-38% 3PT shooter as well, I believe.

 

Not really sure if he's a better three-point shooter than Goudelock, though...because Goudelock was actually better than anyone else in that draft class (better than Jimmer), but as it stands, as an NBA player, you have to consider it. Goudelock will get a lot of open shots when he does rake in a few minutes, though, that's for certain.

 

 

Shoots 3's like Colton Davidson

[Real Deal]

Shoots 3's like Colton Davidson

 

Damn man, I seriously laughed out loud on that one.

[Warren2ThaG]

 

Damn man, I seriously laughed out loud on that one.

 

I knew you would, gotta laugh 1nce a blue moon in life

[Hayes1]

Not sure if he's a better three point shooter than Meeks? Are u serious? You should know Meeks is the far better three point shooter, and shooter than G-Lock.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Hayes1

[AboveLegit]

PF edge goes to L.A. obviously? How does it obviously go to L.A.? Lakers fans are ALWAYS crying about Gasol, and Bosh played very well in the playoffs last year.

Finally something I can agree with you on.

 

Not sure why this board is so quick in saying Gasol > Bosh.

 

But I'll also never understand why people place so much stock into positional match ups. I guess it's just a shortcut in analysis.

[Real Deal]

Not sure if he's a better three point shooter than Meeks? Are u serious? You should know Meeks is the far better three point shooter, and shooter than G-Lock.

...based on what? Goudelock probably shot better from three (percentage-wise) last season, and he was also the college three-point champion, and known as the best three-point shooter coming out of the 2011 draft class.

 

What tells you that Meeks shoots the three better?

[Nitro]

I always like to go back to the last two seasons. Are the Heat really that athletic? Wade has been slower for a couple of seasons now. LeBron and Bosh are really the only two athletic players in Miami (that are significant). Battier, Allen, Miller...they are far from it. Miami's average age was actually higher than LA's last season. Dallas, who had one of the oldest teams I've ever seen in 2011 (not really, but yeah), didn't have to run to beat the Heat...they sat back and played excellent basketball on both ends of the floor, found a way to use Chandler (Dwight) to keep LeBron out of the paint and Marion (Artest) to keep him out of the post, and forced him to take jumpers (in the 2012 NBA Finals, by the way, LeBron shot 18% on jumpers).

 

Yes, the Heat are very athletic. If you are going to use injuries for Ron, Wade had the same thing last season, and needed to have surgery in the offseason. I expect him to be back to '10-'11 form, where even though he wasn't the same as he was when he was younger, he's still extremely athletic. Either way, he'll be a problem for Kobe with his off-ball cuts and PnR play.

 

If Spo starts his usual lineup against LA, they will be way more athletic at 4 of the 5 positions, and the 5th would almost be a wash with Howard and Bosh. That is huge. That athletic ability is what makes them such an amazing defense....they cover so much ground, all of them, which allows them to confuse offenses, block off areas of the floor that you'd figure they can't, and force many turnovers. It also allows them to switch off consistently and not get burned, as well as effectively take away/limit PnR's (see- Jeremy Lin). The one area that consistently burns them is open 3's, but the guys that will take the floor much of the game for LA won't be killing Miami efficiently from the 3pt line IMO. They will have a few guys off the bench who can hit 3's, but will hurt LA in other areas. A guy like Meeks could be a difference maker in this series if he catches fire, but that's about it. I really, really don't see Jamison hurting Miami...KG absolutely locked him up in the 2010 EC semi's, and LeBron, Haslem, Bosh, and Battier won't be much easier.

 

I never said they had to run to beat the Heat, but that's where you get easy baskets. I don't have the numbers, but that was a big reason LA couldn't hang with OKC. LA had the better halfcourt execution, but that's negated by getting crushed on such high efficiency opportunities. Howard is extremely TO prone, Nash will probably be above 3 TO's per game, Kobe will be in that area, etc, so Miami will be able to get opportunities to get out on the break. Nash will have no one to run with him in the starting lineup.

 

Chandler didn't keep LeBron out of the paint...LeBron kept LeBron out of the paint. And LeBron could get any shot he wanted against Marion in the post, but he just wasn't comfortable in that area in 2011. To kick off last season LeBron burned Marion in the post with ease. Also, as for LeBron not shooting well in the Finals...EVERYTHING he got the previous series against Chicago was outside the paint and he still performed exceptionally well (against IMO a better team defense than this Laker team will have, and a better individual defender in Luol Deng). LeBron is the best player in the league and in the last post-season he didn't have A SINGLE "bad" game. Average ones, yes, but no bad games. And he had some of the greatest playoff games the NBA has ever seen. No one is containing this man, he's at his peak and is just too damn versatile and good. A 26/6/6 on 48% shooting would be a huge victory for LA, and that is very scary.

[Hayes1]

...based on what? Goudelock probably shot better from three (percentage-wise) last season, and he was also the college three-point champion, and known as the best three-point shooter coming out of the 2011 draft class.

 

What tells you that Meeks shoots the three better?

 

College three point champion? Really come on. Hell, Meeks hit 10 threes in a game in college once. Goudlock TS% is 48 Meeks is a 55. Goudlock only attempted 1.9 three pointers per game that is probably the reason. He might have shot it better than him last year because he barely played and rarely took shots, Meeks took a lot more than that, but years before that Meeks had the better 3pt%. Lets see G-Lock hit 6 threes in the first quarter in the NBA. Hell, if he was the better three point shooter than why Brown never played him, I mean, since we obviously needed his threes. I mean, since he's the best three-point shooter coming out of the 2011 draft class, why we even bother picking up Meeks when we got G-Lock College 3 point champion over here. If you go around the league and ask who is the better the 3 point shooter bet 99% of the people would say Meeks. He's proven it. Now I know its only Goudelock first year and he never played but you can't say he is the better three pointer shooter when he never show it. If you go around the league and ask who is the better the point shooter bet 99% of the players and coaches would say Meeks. He showed it, he proved it. It ain't like G-Lock was a threat out there with his threes like meek was. Now I know its only Goudelock first year and he never played but you can't say he is the better three pointer shooter when he never showed it or proved it. Just basing his stuff off of college wont cut it, plus the three point lane is shorter.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Hayes1

[Warren2ThaG]

The vid I posted Meeks hit those 6 in 1st quarter

[Real Deal]

Yes, the Heat are very athletic. If you are going to use injuries for Ron, Wade had the same thing last season, and needed to have surgery in the offseason. I expect him to be back to '10-'11 form, where even though he wasn't the same as he was when he was younger, he's still extremely athletic. Either way, he'll be a problem for Kobe with his off-ball cuts and PnR play.

Don't think Wade was injured when they played LA back in March, though. He seemed fine. He was pretty dominant before playing us...14 of his last 16 games before that March meeting, he was shooting 50% or better and scoring 25-30 points with ease...had three of his last four games logging 30+ points, before he struggled against Bryant, limited him to 16 points, just two free throws, 7-17 shooting (41%). Why should I be worried about Wade?

 

If Spo starts his usual lineup against LA, they will be way more athletic at 4 of the 5 positions, and the 5th would almost be a wash with Howard and Bosh. That is huge. That athletic ability is what makes them such an amazing defense....they cover so much ground, all of them, which allows them to confuse offenses, block off areas of the floor that you'd figure they can't, and force many turnovers. It also allows them to switch off consistently and not get burned, as well as effectively take away/limit PnR's (see- Jeremy Lin). The one area that consistently burns them is open 3's, but the guys that will take the floor much of the game for LA won't be killing Miami efficiently from the 3pt line IMO. They will have a few guys off the bench who can hit 3's, but will hurt LA in other areas. A guy like Meeks could be a difference maker in this series if he catches fire, but that's about it. I really, really don't see Jamison hurting Miami...KG absolutely locked him up in the 2010 EC semi's, and LeBron, Haslem, Bosh, and Battier won't be much easier.

Jeremy Lin is most definitely not Steve Nash. Lin was a turnover machine, and that Knicks team had no idea how to configure an offense that could involve Melo, Amare AND Lin. It wasn't that tough to defend them.

 

Lin also shot 1-11 in that game, something you won't see Nash do against the Heat...not with two other superstars and an all-star as his teammates. I believe Lin had more turnovers than points.

 

Jamison had three really good games in that series vs. Boston in 2010, and that was with a bigger role. Doubt LeBron will be defending Jamison, and Bosh will have to be playing the five most of the time (if Howard isn't in there, Gasol will be at the five). I'd be shocked if Battier and Haslem can do a better job than Garnett, so if we can get 3-4 good games out of Jamison, in a series, we will be just fine.

 

I never said they had to run to beat the Heat, but that's where you get easy baskets. I don't have the numbers, but that was a big reason LA couldn't hang with OKC. LA had the better halfcourt execution, but that's negated by getting crushed on such high efficiency opportunities. Howard is extremely TO prone, Nash will probably be above 3 TO's per game, Kobe will be in that area, etc, so Miami will be able to get opportunities to get out on the break. Nash will have no one to run with him in the starting lineup.

We kept it close, nearly won two of those games...but I think the pick and roll killed us more than anything, like it has for years (...well, for over a decade, actually), and the difference between Howard and Drew (in the pick and roll) is the difference between Webber and Jordan Hill trying to make a pass to a cutter.

 

Nash is 38-39 years old, dude. If he won't have anyone to run with him on the break, I guess it's time for Kobe and Dwight to retire. Kobe isn't that slow, and if Pau Gasol can run a fast break on his own (like he did probably three times last year, for some stupid reason...yet he still did it), I'm sure Howard can take off and grab anything that Nash (or Kobe) miss off the rim on the break.

 

Chandler didn't keep LeBron out of the paint...LeBron kept LeBron out of the paint. And LeBron could get any shot he wanted against Marion in the post, but he just wasn't comfortable in that area in 2011. To kick off last season LeBron burned Marion in the post with ease. Also, as for LeBron not shooting well in the Finals...EVERYTHING he got the previous series against Chicago was outside the paint and he still performed exceptionally well (against IMO a better team defense than this Laker team will have, and a better individual defender in Luol Deng). LeBron is the best player in the league and in the last post-season he didn't have A SINGLE "bad" game. Average ones, yes, but no bad games. And he had some of the greatest playoff games the NBA has ever seen. No one is containing this man, he's at his peak and is just too damn versatile and good. A 26/6/6 on 48% shooting would be a huge victory for LA, and that is very scary.

Has LeBron performed badly in the playoffs, pre-championship? He doesn't have to have bad games to lose, he just needs to be kept off the free throw line and, now, out of the post.

 

I disagree that Chicago will be the better defensive team (at full health), but even then, they will be nowhere near the offensive threat, and while defense wins championships, you have to score points as well. The Lakers will be able to defend almost as well (at least...I think they'll be better) and they will be a much better scoring team than those Bulls.

 

I mean...right now, you're going to have to either say the Heat are winning the next 2-3 championships (because LeBron isn't slowing down any time soon), or just come out and say that Artest and Dwight (and sometimes Kobe) will be enough to limit him (if that's a good word for it) and take out Miami. Nobody in OKC will get that done (Durant has no shot at limiting him), so I'm assuming you don't think they will.

 

College three point champion? Really come on. Hell, Meeks hit 10 threes in a game in college once. Goudlock TS% is 48 Meeks is a 55. Goudlock only attempted 1.9 three pointers per game that is probably the reason. He might have shot it better than him last year because he barely played and rarely took shots, Meeks took a lot more than that, but years before that Meeks had the better 3pt%. Lets see G-Lock hit 6 threes in the first quarter in the NBA. Hell, if he was the better three point shooter than why Brown never played him, I mean, since we obviously needed his threes. I mean, since he's the best three-point shooter coming out of the 2011 draft class, why we even bother picking up Meeks when we got G-Lock College 3 point champion over here. If you go around the league and ask who is the better the 3 point shooter bet 99% of the people would say Meeks. He's proven it. Now I know its only Goudelock first year and he never played but you can't say he is the better three pointer shooter when he never show it. If you go around the league and ask who is the better the point shooter bet 99% of the players and coaches would say Meeks. He showed it, he proved it. It ain't like G-Lock was a threat out there with his threes like meek was. Now I know its only Goudelock first year and he never played but you can't say he is the better three pointer shooter when he never showed it or proved it. Just basing his stuff off of college wont cut it, plus the three point lane is shorter.

So, because Mike Brown didn't play Goudelock more, that means he's not as good shooting the three-ball? Really? Why didn't the Miami Heat play James Jones more? He's notorious for being one of the best three-point shooters in the league, shot over 40% just last year, and he was barely seeing 10 minutes a night.

 

Goudelock didn't play because he couldn't defend anyone...too small at the two-guard, just as Meeks is (and that will show, just like it did with Lock). He also didn't do anything else, didn't take any shots inside of the paint, couldn't slash, couldn't hit mid-range.

 

I never said Goudelock was a better shooter, so don't bother giving me his TS%. I'm simply saying that Goudelock is arguably the better three-point shooter. If left open, or in a three-point competition, he could hit more from long range than Meeks. Saying it's not even close is ridiculous. Meeks has never reached 40% from three, he has shot poorly from the floor in general (FG%), and his TS% has quite a bit to do with his extremely-high FT% (which was 90% last season).

 

Larry Bird, and Jodie Meeks, have a similar career TS% (almost exactly the same). Doesn't mean much to me, because everyone knows Larry Legend is one of the greatest three-point shooters ever, and the casual NBA fan doesn't even know a Jodie Meeks (who has been in the league for just three seasons).

[Hayes1]

 

So, because Mike Brown didn't play Goudelock more, that means he's not as good shooting the three-ball? Really? Why didn't the Miami Heat play James Jones more? He's notorious for being one of the best three-point shooters in the league, shot over 40% just last year, and he was barely seeing 10 minutes a night.

 

Goudelock didn't play because he couldn't defend anyone...too small at the two-guard, just as Meeks is (and that will show, just like it did with Lock). He also didn't do anything else, didn't take any shots inside of the paint, couldn't slash, couldn't hit mid-range.

 

I never said Goudelock was a better shooter, so don't bother giving me his TS%. I'm simply saying that Goudelock is arguably the better three-point shooter. If left open, or in a three-point competition, he could hit more from long range than Meeks. Saying it's not even close is ridiculous. Meeks has never reached 40% from three, he has shot poorly from the floor in general (FG%), and his TS% has quite a bit to do with his extremely-high FT% (which was 90% last season).

 

Larry Bird, and Jodie Meeks, have a similar career TS% (almost exactly the same). Doesn't mean much to me, because everyone knows Larry Legend is one of the greatest three-point shooters ever, and the casual NBA fan doesn't even know a Jodie Meeks (who has been in the league for just three seasons).

 

Not saying he's not a good three point shooters, James proved he was though, we all seen him light it up in the NBA, 3 point champ. Plus they already have other great shooters that can do more than just shoot the ball, that is why he is not playing. I have yet to see Goudelock go off. Even when he was in there he still didn't do shit, Never saw him as a threat on the three, never saw someone say "hey they need to stop Goudelock." Since he can hit from longer range. When he was open he barely hit shots.

 

I think Meeks can hold his own 6'4, long, and athletic, can't say the same about Goudelock. He did pretty damn good job last year on Defense. people don't give him credit for his defense because they think only thing he can do is shoot. Plus he already stated that all Philly wanted him to do was spot up and shoot the three that is it. His role his first three seasons in the NBA has been as a spot-up shooter. He said he can get to the free throw line, he has a mid-range game, He can create off the dribble, but that hasn’t been his role. He did what the coach wanted him to do, he stated that. He's not a one dimensional as you think. Meeks is the better, and more consistent three point shooter. Like I said, lets see him go off, lets see him hit 6 threes in first quarter, lets see him get damn near 20 something points only on threes. lets see him score 31 points. Meeks was damn near close though, hitting 39% in 09-10. I bet you if they had a longer season this year he would had a better 3pt% percentage he started off cold but heated up.

 

I hope Meeks and Goudelock have a three point shootout in practice. Meeks is going to light his ass up like a Christmas tree. :glasses:

 

I know Larry is one of the greatest three pointer shooters ever.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Hayes1

[Abro]

Just so you know...

 

 

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/14/the-inbounds-nash-howard-and-an-impossible-sword

 

This could be one of the best pick-and-roll duos the league has seen in decades, and it doesn't include Kobe, Gasol OR Jamison.

 

I'm sure you guys have defended Howard well in the past, but that's Dwight without much help. You're replacing Nelson, Anderson, and J-Rich with Nash, Gasol and Kobe.

 

If you aren't worried about this slow, old Lakers team...I'm assuming you weren't worried about that slow, old Dallas team in 2011.

Thanks for letting me know something that I already knew haha. Really enlightened me... But on amore serious note, what were those numbers against the Heat? Cause I dont care about the rest of the league. When did I say the Lakers are old(Which their core is btw)? And no I am worried about any team the Heat will face in the finals..

 

And yes we have.. Even with their incredible 3pt shooting threats, which is what absolutely kills the Heat. The Hest defense is excellent at PnR and is made to prevent big center threats.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Abro

[Real Deal]

Plus he already stated that all Philly wanted him to do was spot up and shoot the three that is it. His role his first three seasons in the NBA has been as a spot-up shooter. He said he can get to the free throw line, he has a mid-range game, He can create off the dribble, but that hasn’t been his role. He did what the coach wanted him to do, he stated that. He's not a one dimensional as you think. Meeks is the better, and more consistent three point shooter.

So wait a minute. Meeks hasn't exactly proven any of that, so why are you giving him credit for it? Isn't that what your issue was with Goudelock? If all Meeks has done has been spotting up for threes, why are you telling me anything else about his game?

[Hayes1]

So wait a minute. Meeks hasn't exactly proven any of that, so why are you giving him credit for it? Isn't that what your issue was with Goudelock? If all Meeks has done has been spotting up for threes, why are you telling me anything else about his game?

 

Because I seen him do it in 10-11, when he was averaging 10 points, and was more involved into the offense. Seen him come off screens, seen him hit the mid, seen him create for himself. Most minutes he ever played that year too. Seen him go off for 21, 31, 18, etc. But his role was still a spot up shooter though, but he was more involved. I ain't going to bullshit ya. Seen him do it, seen him start, seen him do it consistently. Seen him light it up.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Hayes1

[Real Deal]

Because I seen him do it in 10-11, when he was averaging 10 points, and was more involved into the offense. Seen him come off screens, seen him hit the mid, seen him create for himself. Seen him go off for 21, 31, 18, etc. But his role was still a spot up shooter though. I can't going to bullshit ya. Seen him do it, seen him start, seen him do it consistently.

His 31-point game was against Alonzo Gee, with Varejao out and nobody defending the rim. Tristan Thompson played center, Samardo Samuels backing him up.

 

I mean, Brian Cook had a 28-point game. Vujacic scored 25 a couple of times. Chucky Atkins scored 36 against the Miami Heat in his second NBA season. Farmar had 28 against the Thunder two seasons back.

 

Meeks isn't going to be that great. It wasn't like the entire league was after him.

 

This feels like a similar situation when the Lakers found a way to bring in Steve Blake, who torched us when he was in Portland. Supposedly, he could do more than just shoot threes...he could run an offense, and he was an underrated defensive player. Supposedly.

 

It's nice to have a backup two-guard now, instead of having to rely on Steve Blake...but let's not go overboard. Meeks isn't going to go off in LA...not like you want him to.

[Hayes1]

His 31-point game was against Alonzo Gee, with Varejao out and nobody defending the rim. Tristan Thompson played center, Samardo Samuels backing him up.

 

I mean, Brian Cook had a 28-point game. Vujacic scored 25 a couple of times. Chucky Atkins scored 36 against the Miami Heat in his second NBA season. Farmar had 28 against the Thunder two seasons back.

 

Meeks isn't going to be that great. It wasn't like the entire league was after him.

 

This feels like a similar situation when the Lakers found a way to bring in Steve Blake, who torched us when he was in Portland. Supposedly, he could do more than just shoot threes...he could run an offense, and he was an underrated defensive player. Supposedly.

 

It's nice to have a backup two-guard now, instead of having to rely on Steve Blake...but let's not go overboard. Meeks isn't going to go off in LA...not like you want him to.

 

Never once have I said he was going to be this type of all star or anything else like that. Never have I once said he was going to go off and score 31 points with the Lakers because honestly, I don't think he is going to even get 20 or even less than that. Hell not even 15, shit even 10. Not going to play the same minutes he played in Philly I know what he is here for, he's going to play his role. Never have I went overboard and said he is going to be huge for us and score big points. I know who he is I know is game and I know his limits. He is going to be great for our three point shooting and spacing the floor out and resting Kobe. He has time to keep improving his game too only 24 years old.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Hayes1

[Real Deal]

Never once have I said he was going to be this type of all star or anything else like that. Never have I once said he was going to go off and score 31 points with the Lakers because honestly, I don't think he is going to even get 20 or even less than that. Hell not even 15, shit even 10. Not going to play the same minutes he played in Philly I know what he is here for, he's going to play his role. Never have I went overboard and said he is going to be huge for us and score big points. I know who he is I know is game and I know his limits.

Ah...exactly, so why did you say this about Goudelock, then...

 

Like I said, lets see him go off, lets see him hit 6 threes in first quarter, lets see him get damn near 20 something points only on threes. lets see him score 31 points. Meeks was damn near close though, hitting 39% in 09-10. I bet you if they had a longer season this year he would had a better 3pt% percentage he started off cold but heated up.

Did you really think he would have that opportunity in LA last season? Last year, Goudelock had six double-digit games, playing over 24 minutes just twice. Meeks had eight double-digit games his rookie season, playing over 24 minutes seven times.

 

Meeks dropped 31 because he played against a poor team (when healthy) that was busted up and had D-Leaguers playing for them (made them even worse), and he was given 36 minutes or so that night. PLUS, Philly didn't have Andre Iguodala.

 

I'm sure Goudelock could net at least 20 on Alonzo Gee, with no anchor, no defensive presence anywhere on the court that can stop him...and no superstar or all-star trying to take the ball out of his hands.

 

My point is, Meeks has done nothing spectacular, even for a bench player. All of this started because you were amazed that someone said Goudelock (who has been shooting threes all throughout college and was acknowledged as the best three-point shooter in that draft class) was probably better from outside. All you did was tell me Meeks shot a bunch of threes in a quarter, and he attempts twice as many.

 

I don't see anyone telling me Kobe Bryant (three-point record in a game) is better at shooting them than Reggie Miller, or that Jason Kidd (third-most threes made in NBA history) is better than Kyle Korver. That's all I'm saying.

[Hayes1]

He would drop nothing on no body. Couldn't even do it in summer league. I don't see him doing anything. Not a threat to me. So what ever you say idc. Haven't proven it to me that he is a better three point shooter than Meeks. If he never had the opportunity than how can he be the better three point shooter if we never saw it. By saying he was a three point shooter in college and 3 point champ in college, best 3 pointer shooter in draft. wtf Never seen him do it on this level. Meeks had 21 on MIA, 17 on OKC so he can do it on good teams too. Did I ever say Meeks was doing things spectacular, G-Lock hasn't either. He did his role. He is known and "acknowledged" to be one of the best shooters behind the arc in the NBA. Had better percentages. I'm done, not about to keep going back and forth, I really dont give a [expletive] no more. Meeks is the better three point shooter to me Period. Not taking anything away from G-Lock I think he is a good shooter and even better three point shooter. All I know is that i'm glad to have someone who can space the floor and rest kobe. I really don't care any more. Back on topic.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Hayes1

[TheNotoriousBANG]

Meek is irrelevant is this discussion

 

the problem is Lebron the 3 time MVP

World Peace is a joke to LeBron these days

 

he could easily averagbe 37pph 10rpg and 10apg playing the lakers

Edited August 19, 2012 by TheNotoriousBANG

[Real Deal]

He would drop nothing on no body. Couldn't even do it in summer league. I don't see him doing anything. Not a threat to me. So what ever you say idc. Haven't proven it to me that he is a better three point shooter than Meeks. If he never had the opportunity than how can he be the better three point shooter if we never saw it. By saying he was a three point shooter in college and 3 point champ in college, best 3 pointer shooter in draft. wtf Never seen him do it on this level. Meeks had 21 on MIA, 17 on OKC so he can do it on good teams too. Did I ever say Meeks was doing things spectacular, G-Lock hasn't either. He did his role. He is known and "acknowledged" to be one of the best shooters behind the arc in the NBA. Had better percentages. I'm done, not about to keep going back and forth, I really dont give a [expletive] no more. Meeks is the better three point shooter to me Period. Not taking anything away from G-Lock I think he is a good shooter and even better three point shooter. All I know is that i'm glad to have someone who can space the floor and rest kobe. I really don't care any more. Back on topic.

 

Guess I'll have to check your IP address and make sure you're not Jodie Meeks, since you're acting like I'm talking about you. Calm the [expletive] down, and don't tell me to get "back on topic."

[Hayes1]

 

Guess I'll have to check your IP address and make sure you're not Jodie Meeks, since you're acting like I'm talking about you. Calm the [expletive] down, and don't tell me to get "back on topic."

 

Go check it, I don't care. Don't ever tell me to calm down either, im always calm i'm not mad at all, this is a site, what reason should I get mad for, we discuss stuff on here that is what its here for. I'm just done with it that is all. Not mad at all. So.. I was telling everyone else "I" was back on topic.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Hayes1