Is Kevin Love a franchise player?

[The Regime]

I'm not convinced that he's the type of player you can build around as your #1 option, atleast not yet. He would make for one hell of a secondary option though. Does he have the potential to be the next Larry Bird, not in terms of legacy but as the next dominant white American forward who can make his team a contender year in and year out?

Edited August 22, 2012 by Simba

[Real Deal]

Nope. He can score and board, but he just doesn't have that consistency. Definitely not a Dirk, and Larry Bird is entirely out of the question.

[Built Ford Tough]

If Kevin Love was a franchise player the T'Wolves wouldn't have imploded when Rubio got injured last season.

 

They were 21-19 in their first 40 games.

 

Rubio got injured in game 41.

 

In the next 25 games the Wolves went 5-20 including an 11 game losing streak.

 

I know Rubio is a good player, but he is not that good at this point in his career for a team to go into a tailspin like that without him, especially since Minny had a more than capable backup point in Ridnour.

 

If Love was a legitimate franchise player the T'Wolves would not have gone on such a horrific losing streak after Rubio's injury. The fact that they completely fell off a cliff like that shows that, at least in my opinion, Love will never be the best player or leader on a team that makes any sort of noise in the playoffs.

 

I know that there were other factors that led to their poor finish to the season and it wasn't just Rubio's injury, but again, if Love was a legitimate franchise player they would've at least been respectable and not a complete pushover during those final 25 games.

[DunkinDerozan]

He's a top 10 player in the league, so I don't know if you can say hes not a franchise player. I guess he wasn't able to carry his team to the playoffs, but I don't see why he couldn't be considered a player you could build your franchise around.

[Real Deal]

He's a top 10 player in the league, so I don't know if you can say hes not a franchise player. I guess he wasn't able to carry his team to the playoffs, but I don't see why he couldn't be considered a player you could build your franchise around.

LeBron

Kobe

Durant

Howard

Wade

CP3

D-Will

Rose

Melo

Rondo

 

I'm leaving a few out, but I just can't put Love in the top ten. Rondo (who I added on the list because he came to mind first, as I went back through the teams in alphabetical order) does more on the floor than K-Love does for his team, but if you wanted to argue that Love is more of a franchise player, you still have Dirk Nowitzki (who is better than Love) and Steve Nash can be argued for just how well he facilitates + shoots the ball (both MILES better than Love).

 

I didn't realize it, but Love shot under 45% from the floor last season. A rebounding machine, no doubt, but people are going to argue that Drew Bynum is more of a franchise player, in that case.

[Built Ford Tough]

He's a top 10 player in the league, so I don't know if you can say hes not a franchise player. I guess he wasn't able to carry his team to the playoffs, but I don't see why he couldn't be considered a player you could build your franchise around.

 

Because the T'Wolves have done jack shit with him as the best player? I'd say that is a pretty good reason for why you can say he isn't a franchise player.

 

Mediocore talent or not, franchise players don't lead their team to having the worst record in the league (2 years ago) or 15 games under .500 (last year). There really is no excuse for why that T'Wolves team last year finished with such a poor record if Love is in fact a legitimate franchise player.

 

The guy is clearly a 2nd option. It truly baffles me that there are people who think that he is a player you can build a contending team around.

[ChosenOne]

Kevin Love might have the numbers for a franchise player, but he doesnt have anything else. When i think of franchise players you think of Kobe, Durant, Dirk, Pierce and a few others. Players that not only want the ball when it matters but demand it. Players that can be trusted to make a basket or a play when it matters, Love doesnt have that yet he can get there but hasnt yet. To me for one to become a franchise it takes more than just numbers.

Edited August 22, 2012 by ChosenOne

[ChosenOne]

Also i think he is going to have a very much similar career to Pau Gasol. Maybe make it to the playoffs, but not any further (unless rubio and others pan out) he needs a player that just as good if not better than him to take him to the next step.

[Legacy]

I don't think Love has the attitude to be a franchise player. He doesn't have the same characteristics the other superstar player have that lead their teams to championships. Maybe it's because he's young still, but he is not on a Derrick Rose or Kevin Durant level. Maybe a little below Dirk Nowitizki but I see him past Pau Gasol, especially when he hits his prime.

[Cleveland's Finest]

If he can get his team into the playoffs this year, then yes. If not, then he's just a fine complementary all-star, which there's nothing wrong with.

[TheNotoriousBANG]

Ricky Rubio gonna be their franchise player

[DunkinDerozan]

Because the T'Wolves have done jack shit with him as the best player? I'd say that is a pretty good reason for why you can say he isn't a franchise player.

 

Mediocore talent or not, franchise players don't lead their team to having the worst record in the league (2 years ago) or 15 games under .500 (last year). There really is no excuse for why that T'Wolves team last year finished with such a poor record if Love is in fact a legitimate franchise player.

 

The guy is clearly a 2nd option. It truly baffles me that there are people who think that he is a player you can build a contending team around.

 

Well, the Wolves were 3 games above .500 before the Ricky Rubio injury. Not to mention Kevin Love missed 11 games to injury last season. I know Kevin Love hasn't been able to lead his team to the playoffs, but a franchise player has to have good pieces around them to win, unless they are Lebron. Thats why you build your franchise around that player. Dirk is better than Love I know that, but do you think he would have been able to lead the Mavs to a championship without Kidd? Its the same thing to a much lesser extent with Love and Rubio. (thats not a great example, just first thing that came to mind)

 

LeBron

Kobe

Durant

Howard

Wade

CP3

D-Will

Rose

Melo

Rondo

 

I'm leaving a few out, but I just can't put Love in the top ten. Rondo (who I added on the list because he came to mind first, as I went back through the teams in alphabetical order) does more on the floor than K-Love does for his team, but if you wanted to argue that Love is more of a franchise player, you still have Dirk Nowitzki (who is better than Love) and Steve Nash can be argued for just how well he facilitates + shoots the ball (both MILES better than Love).

 

I didn't realize it, but Love shot under 45% from the floor last season. A rebounding machine, no doubt, but people are going to argue that Drew Bynum is more of a franchise player, in that case.

 

Ok, so even if hes not a top 10 player, hes still borderline top 15. Is that not franchise player worthy? I guess I probably don't have the same definition of a franchise player as most people.

[Real Deal]

A franchise player is a primary scoring option that you build your contender around. If you have any doubt that said player is a primary scoring option, and even think for a second that he could be a better second option...then he's not a franchise player.

 

Danny Granger is a great example. So is Andre Iguodala. Monta Ellis. Kevin Martin. Blake Griffin (when he finally fell back down to Earth).

 

Even better example? Pau Gasol, when he was in Memphis. He was traded to LA, became a second option, and actually played better (individually) and won two championships in that role as well.

 

Kevin Love is more Gasol than he is Dirk, as of today...not so much the style of play, but in the ability to fulfill that role.

 

You asked if Dirk could win it all without Jason Kidd? Who knows, but he had Dallas contending for a decade without Kidd, and he was in the 2006 NBA Finals without him or Nash.

[Built Ford Tough]

Well, the Wolves were 3 games above .500 before the Ricky Rubio injury. Not to mention Kevin Love missed 11 games to injury last season. I know Kevin Love hasn't been able to lead his team to the playoffs, but a franchise player has to have good pieces around them to win, unless they are Lebron. Thats why you build your franchise around that player. Dirk is better than Love I know that, but do you think he would have been able to lead the Mavs to a championship without Kidd? Its the same thing to a much lesser extent with Love and Rubio. (thats not a great example, just first thing that came to mind)

 

That is exactly my point, though. The team imploded once Rubio got hurt. That should be a be a huge red flag in regards to Kevin Love being a franchise player.

 

The T'Wolves were good enough to be 21-19 prior to Rubio's injury but then once he is taken out of the lineup they go 5-20? I'm sorry, but a rookie Ricky Rubio isn't the difference between a 52.5 winning percent and a 20 winning percentage. Yeah, Love missed some games as well, but even then, 7 of the first 11 games of their losing streak occured with Love in the lineup and 5 of those losses came against non-playoff teams so its not like they were getting beat up on by playoff teams or anything like that.

 

As for your Dirk comments, maybe he doesn't win a championship without Kidd, but the big difference is that Dirk has led the Mavericks to the playoffs and 50 wins for over a decade. Dirk proved he was a legitimate franchise player not by winning a championship, but by having the Mavs as a contending team year after year despite not always having a great supporting cast. They situations aren't even close to being comparable.

 

Lastly, a franchise player needs pieces around him to win a championship. That is 100% true. A franchise player shouldn't need a much better supporting cast than what Love was working with last year (even with Rubio being injured) to at least compete for a playoff spot.

 

I know I'll probably get flak for this from somebody, but if you ask me, Chris Bosh in Toronto was closer to being a legitimate franchise player than Kevin Love is. Sure, he may not have stuffed the stat sheet like Love does, but he had a greater impact on winning than what Love has shown so far in his career.

 

 

Ok, so even if hes not a top 10 player, hes still borderline top 15. Is that not franchise player worthy? I guess I probably don't have the same definition of a franchise player as most people.

 

No, I don't think it is. A franchise player is a guy that you build a contending team around. Do you honestly think that you can ever build a team around a guy like Kevin Love? At the very least, you need a player who is just as good as Love to be a contender and, in that case, is Love really the franchise player if there is another player on the team who is his equal?

[DunkinDerozan]

You two made some pretty good points. I guess I change my mind. I'd say hes still got the potential to become a franchise player, but as of right now he hasn't done enough to prove hes worthy of being called a franchise player.

[JYD]

Nope. He can score and board, but he just doesn't have that consistency. Definitely not a Dirk, and Larry Bird is entirely out of the question.

This.

 

He's a very good player, and a stats machine...but a franchise player? Not if I were starting a franchise.

[Check my Stats]

A franchise player is a primary scoring option that you build your contender around. If you have any doubt that said player is a primary scoring option, and even think for a second that he could be a better second option...then he's not a franchise player.

 

Danny Granger is a great example. So is Andre Iguodala. Monta Ellis. Kevin Martin. Blake Griffin (when he finally fell back down to Earth).

 

Even better example? Pau Gasol, when he was in Memphis. He was traded to LA, became a second option, and actually played better (individually) and won two championships in that role as well.

 

Kevin Love is more Gasol than he is Dirk, as of today...not so much the style of play, but in the ability to fulfill that role.

 

You asked if Dirk could win it all without Jason Kidd? Who knows, but he had Dallas contending for a decade without Kidd, and he was in the 2006 NBA Finals without him or Nash.

 

I LOVE this example. 08-10 version of Granger is exactly what I think of for Love.

[Flash]

He's as good a second option you can ask for, but not a franchise player.

[Nitro]

If Love was a legitimate franchise player the T'Wolves would not have gone on such a horrific losing streak after Rubio's injury.

 

Paul Pierce and Tracy McGrady were both on teams that had nearly 20 game losing streaks. Prime Garnett couldn't get the T-Wolves to the playoffs for like 4 straight seasons.

 

Team success =/= individual ability.

 

In this case, your overall arguement is correct. Love is not a franchise player, solely for the fact that he can't anchor an elite team on either side of the ball. Certainly not a defensive anchor, and doesn't have the one-on-one ability to control a game offensively at a playoff level.

 

Great 2nd or 3rd option, though.

[Sħãlïq™]

A franchise player is a primary scoring option that you build your contender around. If you have any doubt that said player is a primary scoring option, and even think for a second that he could be a better second option...then he's not a franchise player.

I had that doubt. And while Love may not yet be a franchise player, he sure's got the potential to turn into one in the future.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Sħãlïq̵'

[Built Ford Tough]

Paul Pierce and Tracy McGrady were both on teams that had nearly 20 game losing streaks. Prime Garnett couldn't get the T-Wolves to the playoffs for like 4 straight seasons.

 

Team success =/= individual ability.

 

In this case, your overall arguement is correct. Love is not a franchise player, solely for the fact that he can't anchor an elite team on either side of the ball. Certainly not a defensive anchor, and doesn't have the one-on-one ability to control a game offensively at a playoff level.

 

Great 2nd or 3rd option, though.

 

Pierce and McGrady's teams were a lot worse than Love's last year, though, even with Rubio out of the lineup. Those teams were also openly tanking, which the Wolves were not doing either.

 

Pierce, McGrady and Garnett had also proven to be able to lead poor supporting casts into the playoffs prior to these scenarios you are taking about, which Love has never done.

 

Those scenarios really aren't comparable if you ask me.

 

I also never said that team success represented individual ability, but if somebody wants to tell me that a player is a legitimate franchise player, I sure as hell expect that player to have some team success, even if it is just a first round exit or two. Prime McGrady and Garnett played with garbage for the most part yet they still managed to consistently get their teams into the playoffs or at least near the playoffs.

[Nitro]

Pierce and McGrady's teams were a lot worse than Love's last year, though, even with Rubio out of the lineup. Those teams were also openly tanking, which the Wolves were not doing either.

 

How could the Magic be tanking when they started off the season with that losing streak? The season before they almost upset the #1 seed Pistons and some thought Juwan Howard was a great addition. They didn't go into that season expecting to have the worst record in the league.

 

Pierce, McGrady and Garnett had also proven to be able to lead poor supporting casts into the playoffs prior to these scenarios you are taking about, which Love has never done.

 

Love just started getting major minutes like 2 seasons ago. That is a very small sample size with a poor cast of role players and no true 2nd option to grade him on.

 

I also never said that team success represented individual ability, but if somebody wants to tell me that a player is a legitimate franchise player, I sure as hell expect that player to have some team success, even if it is just a first round exit or two. Prime McGrady and Garnett played with garbage for the most part yet they still managed to consistently get their teams into the playoffs or at least near the playoffs.

 

As I said before, I don't believe he is a franchise player, but I don't think you can use his team success against him all that much considering he's been in the league so little and is playing for one of the most poorly run franchises in the NBA, with the worst GM running the show.

 

Put a team like the '10 Bobcats around him, and I think he makes the playoffs in the deep Western Conference. There were no stars on that team, but they had good veterans, and role players who played their role quite well. You can be a playoff team with Love as your go-to guy, I have no doubt about that. I do doubt you can build a contender around him as the centerpiece, though, and to me that's all that matters when it comes to franchise players.