Owner Real Deal Posted June 28, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 You can also make it to reveal who voted for what <_>Making them public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted June 28, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 I'll take LeBron. He's not as complete as Kobe, but he's the very best at producing wins and optimizing his team's chances. The scoreboard is more important than aesthetics.Then you'll agree that you'd take Dirk over Kobe a few years from 2004-2007, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Then you'll agree that you'd take Dirk over Kobe a few years from 2004-2007, right?Dirk isn't even in the same league. I'm not talking about win shares. Efficiency and win production can't be quantified by statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 LeBron because I enjoy getting a rise out of Lakers fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted June 28, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Dirk isn't even in the same league. I'm not talking about win shares. Efficiency and win production can't be quantified by statistics.I'm sure people will be giving the same argument about Kevin Garnett over the years, then...and I'd much rather have Bryant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 I'm sure people will be giving the same argument about Kevin Garnett over the years, then...and I'd much rather have Bryant.Yes, a lot of people would much rather have Bryant than Garnett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcstarheel Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Making them public. Yeah, duh. I should have read the WHOLE post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldChili Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Yeah, duh. I should have read the WHOLE post Even if you read half of it, that was the first thing he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Goods Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 The better player now is Kobe, he has the killer instinct and can take over a game whenever he wants something that LeBron can't do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 When you look at the past two years, what has LeBron actually gotten immensely better at? Dropped two less points a game with the same rebound, assist, steal, and block numbers. Even though his defense steadily improved, right? I didn't see any man-on-man, defensive footwork improvements. I saw highlighted recovery blocks (which were great, but not more than what he was already doing). I saw an uptick in defensive intensity, but that alone does not mean that leaps and bounds have or will be taken.He's improved a ton on defense, and that's indisputable. We're seeing his willingness and tenacity on defense, and a big leap in defensive instincts, cunning, and awareness. Was a very compelling bid for DPOY this season, and justifiably so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 LeBron because I enjoy getting a rise out of Lakers fans Too bad that wont happen anymore because we won the CHAMPIONSHIP. Haha, Lakers >>>> all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted June 29, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 He's improved a ton on defense, and that's indisputable. We're seeing his willingness and tenacity on defense, and a big leap in defensive instincts, cunning, and awareness. Was a very compelling bid for DPOY this season, and justifiably so.Then where is that when he's defending individual players on the perimeter? I only see that when the other teams are running fast breaks, and when a teammate of his gets burned on the perimeter. For such an excellent defensive player (as you're making him out to be), I would take at least 10-15 other players defending me, one-on-one, on the perimeter before I'd take LeBron. Probably more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Lebron did a great job shutting down Rafer Alston in the ECF's. Oh wait, he didnt do that either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Then where is that when he's defending individual players on the perimeter? I only see that when the other teams are running fast breaks, and when a teammate of his gets burned on the perimeter.You don't see it because you don't want to see it.  He's strong, he's fast, and he's one of the best in the league at recovering. He can hold his own.  LeBron is not putting guys in straitjackets (but he can), but his overall impact transcends on-ball defense. He prevents the other team from scoring... that's the hallmark of good D. For such an excellent defensive player (as you're making him out to be), I would take at least 10-15 other players defending me, one-on-one, on the perimeter before I'd take LeBron. Probably more than that.I would take maybe five guys on my team over LeBron for defensive purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted June 29, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 You don't see it because you don't want to see it.Ah, because my hate for LeBron is too overwhelming. <_> I would take maybe five guys on my team over LeBron for defensive purposes.Individual defensive purposes, or just defensive purposes? You remove Brown as the head coach and wipe out the smarter help defenders, and LeBron doesn't seem like much of a defensive player anymore. And before you tell me that he's the reason why they are an excellent defensive team, I'm assuming you wouldn't agree with that in 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Ah, because my hate for LeBron is too overwhelming. No, it's Hyde kicking Jekyll's [expletive]. The evil (Kobe love) is overwhelming the good. Individual defensive purposes, or just defensive purposes? You remove Brown as the head coach and wipe out the smarter help defenders, and LeBron doesn't seem like much of a defensive player anymore. And before you tell me that he's the reason why they are an excellent defensive team, I'm assuming you wouldn't agree with that in 2007.Overall defensive purposes, as in everything. As in defense. It's not like Cleveland's scheme is fixated to make LeBron fill the stat sheet — he's just good at it. You can't take that away from him. His instincts, his head, and his athleticism... that's all his. He would make an impact on whatever team he plays on. LeBron is not the reason they are an elite defense, but he's a big part of why they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted June 29, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 LeBron is not the reason they are an elite defense, but he's a big part of why they are.Tom Thibodeau and Kevin Garnett are the biggest reasons for Boston's defensive ranking. I'm not sure if I can put LeBron in the same sentence with Garnett. Do you honestly think that LeBron was the second-best defensive player in the league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) Tom Thibodeau and Kevin Garnett are the biggest reasons for Boston's defensive ranking. I'm not sure if I can put LeBron in the same sentence with Garnett. Do you honestly think that LeBron was the second-best defensive player in the league?He played the second best defense this season, or at least close to it. Not the second best defender in the league, but I can confidently say he's up there.  Dwight isn't the best defender in the L, but he deserved every bit of the award. Edited June 29, 2009 by His Greatness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted June 29, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 I don't agree with that, but oh well. Iverson was a ball thief, but that didn't make him a good defensive player. Camby was a shot-blocker, but he was always in trouble when the ball came into the post, and someone backed him down.  I believe Wade racked up big steals and blocks numbers as a guard...wasn't it 170/100 (approximately)? I'm not sold on LeBron playing defense. I understand that Cleveland has players who aren't that solid defensively, and LeBron has to pick up a man sometimes (and sometimes makes a good defensive play at the rim), but that doesn't give me enough to say that he's that great of a defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse The Body Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Right now Kobe, but when Kobe retires and decides to pass the torch to King James then it will be LeBron James for at least 15 years then someone else will carry the torch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Another thread of this ? Easily Kobe. I don't even have to explain why Brandon already has Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hawk Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 This is a closer vote count than I thought.Is there a reason we cant see which member voted for who anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 I don't agree with that, but oh well. Iverson was a ball thief, but that didn't make him a good defensive player. Camby was a shot-blocker, but he was always in trouble when the ball came into the post, and someone backed him down.  I believe Wade racked up big steals and blocks numbers as a guard...wasn't it 170/100 (approximately)? I'm not sold on LeBron playing defense. I understand that Cleveland has players who aren't that solid defensively, and LeBron has to pick up a man sometimes (and sometimes makes a good defensive play at the rim), but that doesn't give me enough to say that he's that great of a defender.Iverson was always a vulnerable defender, the steals were just his attempt at compensating (obviously wasn't enough, though). Wade is a chronic risk-taker, sometimes to a fault. He's a good defender, but not nearly as versatile as LeBron. They both should go to Gamblers Anonymous. If you don't think that's good defense, then fine, but he's somehow tricked the whole world into thinking he is a great defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wall2Wall Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 I'll take LeBron. He's not as complete as Kobe, but he's the very best at producing wins and optimizing his team's chances. The scoreboard is more important than aesthetics.4 vs 0. Looks like Kobester has the edge, buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 May be a homer vote, but LeBron plays the game better. Right now at this time he is much more explosive and has better basketball IQ. Don't get me wrong, Kobe's is great, but LeBron does certain things that I've never seen before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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