L.A. Lakers @ Milwaukee

[Real Deal]

Your feet don't have to be planted to draw a charge, you have to establish a legal position in front of the charging player. Bogut established legal position, took it in his chest, textbook charge.

He was still moving, and he was outside of the circle. But whatever it takes, I guess.

 

Perfect angle:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2G6LymlDMk

 

He slid in, never had position. Sorry.

[deestillballin]

The ONLY thing that really does bug me is how the clock freezes then it expires, I mean .1 seconds is enough to at least oop the ball in, or somethin...

[Kobe24]

Yeah that doesnt look like a charge at all. You can say it was a travel but it happens. I've seen it happen to Wade and Lebron

[Real Deal]

The ONLY thing that really does bug me is how the clock freezes then it expires, I mean .1 seconds is enough to at least oop the ball in, or somethin...

I think the rule is 0.3 for a catch and shoot or a tip-in (feet never touching the ground), and 0.4 for a catch/set/shoot (Fisher vs. Spurs). Anything less is impossible...but don't quote me on that until I find a link, haha.

[NJNJ]

Strangely, this was the only part of the game that I saw last night. Mom was hogging the tv once dad left (who was watching the game). So when she went somewhere for a bit i went straight for the tv. so glad i didnt miss that kobe is a-mazing!

[Force]

Yeah, that was an iffy call. But lol as if that was the only reason you guys lost...you guys always left the door open for us with those missed free throws late.

[Real Deal]

Yeah, that was an iffy call. But lol as if that was the only reason you guys lost...you guys always left the door open for us with those missed free throws late.

Kobe dropped 27 points, 10-19 shooting in the second half, including the last seven after the Lakers were down six with 1:18 to go. That's partly because the Bucks had no answer for him, and partly because Bryant is the best player in the game.

 

Putting Charlie Bell on Kobe, by himself, is stupid. If the game is on the line, you don't stick someone on Bryant out on an island, doesn't matter if it's Bell, Wade or Battier...your chances of losing the game are increased significantly.

[deestillballin]

I think the rule is 0.3 for a catch and shoot or a tip-in (feet never touching the ground), and 0.4 for a catch/set/shoot (Fisher vs. Spurs). Anything less is impossible...but don't quote me on that until I find a link, haha.

 

Ahh I see, still bugs me tho lol . Other than that everything else was legit including the block on Bogut

[Real Deal]

Saw another angle. If Bogut hadn't moved before Kobe picked up his dribble, it would've been a charge. I'm going to safely say that the refs would've called it one if Andrew had been in the circle as well, or a combo of the two.

[Force]

btw..did anybody else see Ridnour keep pushing off players, and take about 5 steps before draining that pullup jumper that gave them a 6 point lead?

[andreusito]

Best thing is the crowd going crazy in Milwaukee xD

[Jenneral]

Kobe dropped 27 points, 10-19 shooting in the second half, including the last seven after the Lakers were down six with 1:18 to go. That's partly because the Bucks had no answer for him, and partly because Bryant is the best player in the game.

 

Putting Charlie Bell on Kobe, by himself, is stupid. If the game is on the line, you don't stick someone on Bryant out on an island, doesn't matter if it's Bell, Wade or Battier...your chances of losing the game are increased significantly.

Bell actually had great D on Kobe to send the game into OT. Don't forget that.

 

And Real, with your basketball knowledge I really can't believe you don't think that was a charge. Sure it was your team and the NBA's most favored player that got the call, but anyone else and it would've went the other way. It's ok to admit that you should have lost the game. And I like how you seem to think on any other night you would've blown us out in three quarters. Does that matter though? No. Why? Because you played us last night. Stop with all the "what ifs". Kobe plowed over Bogut, refs knew it was a charge but didn't want to call it so they got in a huddle, foul on Bogut, Kobe to the line. It's that simple.

 

And yes, the MLB draws much bigger crowds than the NBA. Anyone that doesn't see that is either blind or completely ignorant.

[Poe]

^ Kobe drove to the basket, Bogut was set for the charge. Kobe, being the best player in the league that he is, recognizes this and spins to avoid Bogut. Bogut shuffles his feet in an attempt to gain a better position, draws contact while still moving his feet, thus getting called for the block.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Poe

[Legacy]

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__41/ept_sports_nba_experts-168126989-1261082589.jpg?ymdvCYCDBBmWFxB2

[Jenneral]

Jordan > Kobe

LeBron > Kobe

Wade > Kobe

[Legacy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62wXe4P-HGE

 

http://tinypic.com/m7f3ty.jpg

[Real Deal]

LMAO.

[The Artesticle]

http://photos.upi.com/slideshow/lbox/64e644484fd298dd00eab041f10114f3/Lakers-NBA-Championship-Parade.jpg

[Real Deal]

Jordan > Kobe

LeBron > Kobe

Wade > Kobe

Hate to see what those three would do against the Bucks, then.

 

And as far as Charlie Bell playing good defense on Kobe...sure, whatever. Shane Battier plays good defense against him, but that doesn't mean he won't get torched. Battier sticks hands in Bryant's face, touches his eyes, picks his nose, and Bryant still hits the shot.

 

Average defense:

 

http://i48.tinypic.com/20kvfwh.jpg

 

Good defense:

 

http://i49.tinypic.com/2n9j2ox.jpg

 

By the way, both shots went in.

 

And the video, in slow motion, proves you wrong. Bogut was sliding right. You can't slide in front of a player who gathers his shot and expect a charge. Since Bogut is one of the flopping kings, the referees probably expected it, and they got the call right.

 

There was a minute left in the game. The only hope you have of stopping Kobe with a minute left is putting two guys on him, or just hacking the hell out of his arms. No floppers allowed, and definitely no weak, undersized players attempting to defend him by themselves.

[misterx]

LOL, the NBA is not rigged. Milwaukee was up six with a minute to go. If the league was rigged, that would've never, ever happened, because it's extremely difficult for ANY team to win the game being down by that much, with that little time left.

 

And that was a travel, and it was also a blocking foul. Bogut's feet were moving. He probably needs to take a class in Flopping 101 if he thinks otherwise.

 

Complain about the refs all you want, but it was Andrew Bynum getting hacked down low all game, didn't get to the line once. Kobe's seven turnovers, and his poor shooting in the first half, was the main reason why Milwaukee stayed in the game. Otherwise, a healthy Kobe, and the Lakers, would've smoked them in three quarters.

 

EDIT: Hahaha, I take back what I said. No travel, and Bogut was out of the circle on that charge, AND still moving.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89w3ciG7lMQ

 

Seriously though, 39 points not enough? What would a healthy Kobe have gotten?

 

... and Bynum took 6 shots, making four of them. Where in there would you like him to go to the line .. those other two shots?

Edited December 18, 2009 by X-Phylez

[Real Deal]

Seriously though, 39 points not enough? What would a healthy Kobe have gotten?

Probably 50, the way Milwaukee was defending him. Bryant went 3-9 in the first half. If he was healed up, I'm pretty sure he would've dominated Charlie Bell the entire 40+ he was on the floor.

 

How many games have you seen Kobe take only nine shots in the first half, against a below-500 team? He scored 20 in the first quarter against the Bulls the other night.

 

... and Bynum took 6 shots, making four of them. Where in there would you like him to go to the line .. those other two shots?

You don't have to be shooting the ball to get fouled. Bogut was hanging all over Drew in the post, pulling on his jersey and fouling him on box outs because Bynum is simply much stronger, and it's the same type of stuff that happened to Shaq (frequently, in Los Angeles) and it sometimes happens to Gasol as well.

[His Greatness]

He was still moving, and he was outside of the circle. But whatever it takes, I guess.

 

Perfect angle:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2G6LymlDMk

 

He slid in, never had position. Sorry.

There are no rules against shifting your feet. Bogut was in position (the spot Kobe takes his shot) a good two seconds before Kobe gets there, and his upper body was perfectly stationary. If Bogut was taking a blatant step laterally to achieve position, it would be a block, but these are fetus steps here.

 

Pause prior to the moment Bogut began sliding — he still has position, and if Kobe rammed into him there it would still be a charge. The steps made no difference.

 

Look at the Battier video I posted for reference (best example I could find). In over half of the clips, Battier is still moving his feet, but the constant in all of them is that he gets to the position before the ball-handler does. Textbook example of a charge.

[Real Deal]

LOL, his feet were moving BECAUSE he was trying to slide into position. Two seconds before Kobe gathered his shot? Hahaha, come on dude.

 

Same situation as the "elbow touching the ground" issue, I guess. Since his chest was in position to take the charge, and his chest is connected to his hips, then to his thighs, then to his knees and ankles, then feet...guess that means he's in position.

 

If you're still sliding into position (you slide with your feet, you don't float into position), and you're stepping into the player's path, and you're outside of the circle, any other day of the week and any other team and player, this is an obvious blocking foul.

 

But instead, it's going to be a charge, a travel, a palming violation, a goaltend and a kickball, all at the same time. So okay, good call.

[Cobb]

People are still talking about Bogut's foul? Wow.

[His Greatness]

LOL, his feet were moving BECAUSE he was trying to slide into position. Two seconds before Kobe gathered his shot? Hahaha, come on dude.

 

Same situation as the "elbow touching the ground" issue, I guess. Since his chest was in position to take the charge, and his chest is connected to his hips, then to his thighs, then to his knees and ankles, then feet...guess that means he's in position.

 

If you're still sliding into position (you slide with your feet, you don't float into position), and you're stepping into the player's path, and you're outside of the circle, any other day of the week and any other team and player, this is an obvious blocking foul.

 

But instead, it's going to be a charge, a travel, a palming violation, a goaltend and a kickball, all at the same time. So okay, good call.

This is incredible.

 

He didn't step into Kobe's path, he was already standing in place before Kobe even gathers his shot. You're confusing an insignificant shuffle with a blatant lateral step. Bogut was already in position, the shuffling is a difference of mere inches, and it's not unlike what happens on almost every charging call.

 

I'll post close-up shots after we lose to Boston, but in the meantime, study the Battier video thoroughly for examples of textbook charges up close. Battier shuffles—and takes even more blatant steps in some—in similar fashion to Bogut, and they're still called as charges.

 

And yes it's like the fumble situation, because you're wrong about this too.