Jrue & Bynum VS CP3 & Griffin

[Sħãlïq™]

Jrue HOLIDAY and Andrew BYNUM vs. Chris PAUL and Blake GRIFFIN

Inspired by:

 

http://i.imgur.com/Mf981.png

Source

 

So, apparently, Chris Palmer thinks 'Lob City' has the edge over Bynum and Holiday, but I can't agree. While CP3 might still be arguably better than Jrue (at the moment), Bynum >>> Griffin, so Philly's duo has the edge, IMO. And I won't be surprised if Griffin gets owned by Bynum in both games this upcoming season. So I voted 'Jrue & Bynum'.

 

Hit me with your thoughts.

[Built Ford Tough]

There is no arguably about it. Paul is better than Holiday by a country mile and always will be. Even if Holiday becomes the absolute best player he can be, it still won't be as good as Paul was last year. It will be at the very least a tier below that level.

 

The answer to this question is quite easily Paul and Griffin. It shouldn't even be a debate. The gap between Bynum and Griffin doesn't even come close to making up for the gap between Paul and Holiday.

 

Honestly, is Bynum even a clear cut better player than Griffin anyways? I can't say so.

[Sħãlïq™]

There is no arguably about it. Paul is better than Holiday by a country mile and always will be. Even if Holiday becomes the absolute best player he can be, it still won't be as good as Paul was last year. It will be at the very least a tier below that level.

'By a country mile'? That's an overstatement. And 'Paul last year'? How many Clipper games did you see last year? Chris Paul is the most overrated PG since Gary Payton's stint with the Lakers. I admit I didn't watch every Sixer game but I saw a fair share of games, and from what I saw Jrue choked way less than CP3. Especially in crunch time.

 

Honestly, is Bynum even a clear cut better player than Griffin anyways? I can't say so.

Now I think there shouldn't even be a debate about this. Time might prove me wrong but Griffin is still not as good as Bynum.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Sħãlïq̵'

[ChosenOne]

Shaliq don't disagree just for the sake of activity man. Holiday isn't even close to CP3 in any category. Especially in crunch time.

 

With Bynum and Grifin it's close I agree.

[Sħãlïq™]

Shaliq don't disagree just for the sake of activity man. Holiday isn't even close to CP3 in any category. Especially in crunch time.

 

I mean:

 

http://i.imgur.com/BBcpl.png

 

Seriously:

 

http://i.imgur.com/Kzxtm.png

 

More like:

 

http://i.imgur.com/YRB9P.png

You're killin' me... Honestly, how could you come up with something like that??

Hmm, 'disagree just for the sake of activity'..? What else, lemme see -- 'Refuse to win'..? 'Practice'..?? Only Two More Years..??? Hold up:

 

http://i.imgur.com/UaiNO.png

 

Now, c'mon, man. You know better than that!

Maybe I disagree 'cause I don't agree with what BFT said? Did that thought ever cross your mind?

Edited September 20, 2012 by Sħãlïq̵'

[DunkinDerozan]

clipset has the edge by a good sized margin. Bynum>>Griffin but CP3>>>>>Holliday

[Sħãlïq™]

Where the hell are the Sixer fans on this board?

[Smitty]

^The only Sixer fans on here that still post are me, Phigtins, N4S, Artesticle(sometimes) , and His Greatness(rarely)

 

Bynum/Holiday is an unproven duo..

 

 

Even then, Griffin/Paul is the better duo.

[AboveLegit]

and from what I saw Jrue choked way less than CP3. Especially in crunch time.

....uhmmm, Chris Paul was one of the most clutch players in the league last season. I don't know what you were watching. He's always been a great player down the stretch of games, but last year due to the incompetence of Del Negro, he was basically forced to do everything. He stepped it up a notch last year by getting to the line more, which is absolutely huge in the fourth quarter, and with CP3, it's basically an automatic 2 points.

[ChosenOne]

....uhmmm, Chris Paul was one of the most clutch players in the league last season. I don't know what you were watching. He's always been a great player down the stretch of games, but last year due to the incompetence of Del Negro, he was basically forced to do everything. He stepped it up a notch last year by getting to the line more, which is absolutely huge in the fourth quarter, and with CP3, it's basically an automatic 2 points.

 

My thought exactly I dont understand how a CLIPPERS fan can think Holiday is a better than CP3 in anything especially down the stretch.

[Nitro]

Chris Paul is the most overrated PG since Gary Payton's stint with the Lakers.

 

Explain please. He's a very efficient scorer, an amazing playmaker who never turns the ball over, a solid rebounder, one of the best ball thiefs in NBA history, and a fiery competitor.

 

The only two knocks I have of him is he sometimes defers too much as a scorer (he proved he could be a 23PPG scorer when he wanted to in the past), and his size defensively hurts him sometimes. Besides that, there is absolutely no way you can say he is overrated, especially to the degree you are saying he is. The impact he made on the Clippers last year was enormous, and it showed in their huge jump in the standings compared to the previous season . If he had a more capable coach and balanced roster, I feel they could be true championship contender.

[ChosenOne]

 

I mean:

 

http://i.imgur.com/BBcpl.png

 

Now, c'mon, man. You know better than that!

Maybe I disagree 'cause I don't agree with what BFT said? Did that thought ever cross your mind?

 

No because i remember this.

 

Chris Paul is NOT the best closer in the game. One of the best, but not the best.

 

http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/topic/27939-is-chris-paul-the-best-closer-in-the-game/page__p__314830__hl__clutch__fromsearch__1#entry314830

 

So now you believe that, Holiday is an elite closer in the league but Paul isnt.

 

EDIT: Please stop talking out of your ass.

Edited September 20, 2012 by ChosenOne

[The Regime]

For one you're wrong Shaliq, in what world is Jrue better than Chris Paul in any facet of the game? And secondly why do you constantly bash on guys that play on your team?

[DunkinDerozan]

why do you constantly bash on guys that play on your team?

[Built Ford Tough]

I guess I'll humor you, even though, regardless what you said earlier, I'm about 99% sure you are just disagreeing for the sake of creating a discussion.

 

'By a country mile'? That's an overstatement. And 'Paul last year'? How many Clipper games did you see last year? Chris Paul is the most overrated PG since Gary Payton's stint with the Lakers. I admit I didn't watch every Sixer game but I saw a fair share of games, and from what I saw Jrue choked way less than CP3. Especially in crunch time.

 

No, it is not an overstatment. It is accurate. Paul is in the first tier of point guards, Holiday isn't even top 10.

 

I probably saw about 20-25 Clipper games and another 30 or so Sixer games.

 

How many Sixer games did you watch last year?

 

As far as Holiday goes, name me one thing he does better than Paul other than guarding bigger point guards?

 

He doesn't score more (Paul scored 19.8, Holiday 13.5) or as efficiently (Paul's TS% was 58.1, Holiday's 49.6).

He doesn't pass nearly as well (Paul's AST% was 43.8, Holiday's was 21.6)

He doesn't rebound as well (Pauls's DRB% was 9.4, Holiday's was 7.3)

He doesn't take care of the ball as well (Paul's TOV% was 10.8 with a USG% of 24.3, Holiday's was 13.2 with USG% of 21.8)

Paul's PER was nearly double Holidays (27 to 14.7)

 

As far as choking goes the numbers completely contradict what you are saying.

 

In 4th quarters and overtimes, Paul shot 144-300 which is 48%. Holiday shot 92-222 which is 41%.

 

When the game was within 10 points, Paul shot 399-847 which is 47%. Holiday shot 332-781 which is 42.5%.

 

Paul was also creating his own shot (assisted on just 9.9% of his 2PT shots and 47.8% of his 3PT shots) much more frequently than Holiday (28.7% of his 2PT shots and 64.7% of his 3PT shots) was.

 

So, tell me again, how exactly did Paul choke much more frequently than Holiday did? Was it him scoring more when the game was within 10 points? Was it him shooting much more efficiently at the end of games? What exactly is it about Holiday that made him so much better in the clutch than Paul?

 

Now I think there shouldn't even be a debate about this. Time might prove me wrong but Griffin is still not as good as Bynum.

 

That may be the case. I don't have a problem if somebody thinks Bynum is better than Griffin because they are close.

 

Even if Bynum is better than Griffin, it doesn't nearly make up for the colossal gap between Paul and Holiday. The gap on the top players list between Bynum and Griffin may be 5 spots. The gap between Paul and Holiday is 50+ spots.

[His Greatness]

^The only Sixer fans on here that still post are me, Phigtins, N4S, Artesticle(sometimes) , and His Greatness(rarely)

 

Bynum/Holiday is an unproven duo..

 

 

Even then, Griffin/Paul is the better duo.

Hey wtf I post more than those guys.

[Flash]

Is this real life?

[Sħãlïq™]

^ The only Sixer fans on here that still post are me, Phigtins, N4S, Artesticle(sometimes) , and His Greatness(rarely) (...)

I'm aware of that, Smitty-lac, son.

 

Explain please. He's a very efficient scorer, an amazing playmaker who never turns the ball over, a solid rebounder, one of the best ball thiefs in NBA history, and a fiery competitor. (...)

'never turns the ball over'... I'm sorry but I stopped reading after that one phrase.

 

No because i remember this.

 

http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/topic/27939-is-chris-paul-the-best-closer-in-the-game/page__p__314830__hl__clutch__fromsearch__1#entry314830

 

So now you believe that, Holiday is an elite closer in the league but Paul isnt.

 

EDIT: Please stop talking out of your ass.

I never said that 'Holiday is an elite closer in the league but Paul isn't'.

 

And this:

Chris Paul is NOT the best closer in the game. One of the best, but not the best.

^ I made that comment in February.. I was kinda mild back then. I'm harsh now.

 

Oh and, please stop taking words out of your ass and trying to put them into other people's mouths. Thanks.

 

For one you're wrong Shaliq, in what world is Jrue better than Chris Paul in any facet of the game? And secondly why do you constantly bash on guys that play on your team?

And why do have to exaggarate like that? I mean 'bash'? C'mon! I ain't really 'bashing' on anyone. I'm just NOT being a homer. It's different.

 

 

How many Sixer games did you watch last year?

About 15.

 

As far as Holiday goes, name me one thing he does better than Paul other than guarding bigger point guards?

One thing? I can name two (rectangled in red):

 

http://i.imgur.com/LdarM.png

 

As far as choking goes the numbers completely contradict what you are saying.

 

In 4th quarters and overtimes, Paul shot 144-300 which is 48%. Holiday shot 92-222 which is 41%.

 

When the game was within 10 points, Paul shot 399-847 which is 47%. Holiday shot 332-781 which is 42.5%.

 

Paul was also creating his own shot (assisted on just 9.9% of his 2PT shots and 47.8% of his 3PT shots) much more frequently than Holiday (28.7% of his 2PT shots and 64.7% of his 3PT shots) was.

 

So, tell me again, how exactly did Paul choke much more frequently than Holiday did? Was it him scoring more when the game was within 10 points? Was it him shooting much more efficiently at the end of games? What exactly is it about Holiday that made him so much better in the clutch than Paul?

Ok, I agree that Paul chokes roughly as much as Jrue. You got me.

 

Even if Bynum is better than Griffin, it doesn't nearly make up for the colossal gap between Paul and Holiday. The gap on the top players list between Bynum and Griffin may be 5 spots. The gap between Paul and Holiday is 50+ spots.

Difference of opinion, buddy. I don't find the gap between Paul and Holiday 'colossal'. Plus, Bynum is much more experienced that the Floppinator. So I still think the Sixers duo will own Paul & Griffin in Philly (at least, and maybe in L.A. too).

 

Guys, Chris Paul is NOT the best closer in the game. He'll have to prove me a LOT this season.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Sħãlïq̵'

[Nitro]

'never turns the ball over'... I'm sorry but I stopped reading after that one phrase.

 

He had a 9.3 : 2.1 AST:TO ratio last season...that is turning the ball over at an historically low pace. That is a considerably better ratio than guys Nash, Kidd, and Magic ever had. Hell, that is a full TO less than what Kobe, Dwighr, LeBron, Wade, Nash and others had last season.

 

Difference of opinion, buddy. I don't find the gap between Paul and Holiday 'colossal'.

 

Holiday is a scoring PG who does so inefficiently, and he is not even an average playmaker. He's a solid player, but only above average on the defensive side of the ball. Paul is one of the best scoring PG's in the league, one of the most efficient, one of the 3 best playmakers, one of the better rebounding PG's, and one of the best ball thiefs in NBA history. He's statistically one of the best clutch performers in the league. Based on advanced stats like PER he is among the greatest players ever (top 30). He's proven as a #1 option to be able to carry a team deep into the playoffs and he's proven to be a top 2 MVP candidate in the past.

 

You are either retarded or just being difficult.

[Nitro]

Oh, and the stats you highlighted are retarded. 3pt% difference is so minimal, and deceiving since far less of CP3's 3 pointers were assisted, and he took more per game which is harder to maintain from an efficiency standpoint. And are you REALLY pointing out a .2BPG difference at the PG position...REALLY?!?

 

Jesus.

[Sħãlïq™]

He had a 9.3 : 2.1 AST:TO ratio last season...that is turning the ball over at an historically low pace. That is a considerably better ratio than guys Nash, Kidd, and Magic ever had. Hell, that is a full TO less than what Kobe, Dwighr, LeBron, Wade, Nash and others had last season.

 

Holiday is a scoring PG who does so inefficiently, and he is not even an average playmaker. He's a solid player, but only above average on the defensive side of the ball. Paul is one of the best scoring PG's in the league, one of the most efficient, one of the 3 best playmakers, one of the better rebounding PG's, and one of the best ball thiefs in NBA history. He's statistically one of the best clutch performers in the league. Based on advanced stats like PER he is among the greatest players ever (top 30). He's proven as a #1 option to be able to carry a team deep into the playoffs and he's proven to be a top 2 MVP candidate in the past.

I really respect your opinion. And everyone else's opinion. Your posts are one of the main reasons why I come back around. So with all due respect, there's no need to call me 'retarded', son.

 

You are either retarded or just being difficult.

The latter for sure.

[Sħãlïq™]

Oh, and the stats you highlighted are retarded. 3pt% difference is so minimal, and deceiving since far less of CP3's 3 pointers were assisted, and he took more per game which is harder to maintain from an efficiency standpoint.

Excuses...

 

************************************************

 

A'ight, who else but me voted 'Jrue feat. Bynum'?

 

http://i.imgur.com/3EIvN.png

[Real Deal]

Hey, only I'm allowed to argue a point I don't believe in for the sake of discussion. Not saying you are, but since it was mentioned...that's my job, and mine alone, lol.

 

--------

 

Assuming you really do feel like Bynum and Jrue are a better duo, it's probably because you feel like the Clippers underachieved. I mean, I have trashed Pau Gasol so much over the last few years, sometimes where he does deserve it (like the last two playoff runs), but I've gone on to say that he's not a top five PF, and that wasn't true...just out of anger, or venting and trying to make sense of what happened.

 

Bynum isn't a proven #1 option yet, but really, Blake doesn't feel like one. I'd probably take Drew, only because he's a legitimate big man and he plays defense (he's really a better big man than Griffin, as Blake plays more like a small forward).

 

The difference between Jrue and CP3, though, is far more significant in the debate...and there's quite a difference. I like Jrue, but he's not CP3.

 

I was praising D-Will for being the best PG in the NBA over the last couple of seasons (when he was in Utah), but I almost forced myself to believe it because of Paul's injuries (I mean, look at Drew and how he was). CP3 has been outstanding.

[ChosenOne]

I never said that 'Holiday is an elite closer in the league but Paul isn't'.

 

And this:

 

^ I made that comment in February.. I was kinda mild back then. I'm harsh now.

 

Oh and, please stop taking words out of your ass and trying to put them into other people's mouths. Thanks.

 

Well you said CP3 isnt in the Melo, Kobe, and Durant category but is one of the best (bolded to show the same emphasis you showed). And now your saying Holiday is better than CP3...what do you want us to think? ....better yet make a list for us.

 

You were mild back then and now your harsh. Are you some sort of black salsa? Can i ask when the medium stage was?

 

And i dont even know wtf that even means. x2

[ChosenOne]

You are either retarded or just being difficult.

 

Poll please!