Amar'e has cyst in knee burst

[NomarFachix]

Will be out at least the opener, I've heard up to 2-3 weeks. Never stops with this guy!

 

http://m.nypost.com/p/blogs/knicksblog/stoudemire_cyst_miss_knicks_season_2RJT8VEiUdnIzMxQ5evklM

 

Amar’e Stoudemire left the Knicks on Sunday to get an MRI that revealed a ruptured cyst on the back of his left knee. The affliction is known as a Baker’s cyst.

 

Stoudemire will be out two to three weeks and miss the season opener in Brooklyn on Nov. 1.

[Lkr]

this is the kind of thread that won't deliver unless there are pics

[JYD]

That blows, man. Already not at full strength and two weeks away from game 1.

 

It just sucks because it's so hard to see if the Knicks can ever get the STAT-Melo combo to work. It's still up in the air IMO, just too many games that both of them are in and out of the lineup.

[AboveLegit]

Blessing in disguise, gives Woodson more time to establish Melo at the 4.

[Built Ford Tough]

Blessing in disguise, gives Woodson more time to establish Melo at the 4.

 

While that is nice in theory (Melo's PER at the 4 last year was something like 29 compared to 18 or something at the 3), I doubt Melo would consent to playing the 4. I know he has already mentioned not wanting to post up 3's as much because he doesn't like the toll it takes on his body, so what makes you think he would be happy playing the 4?

 

It really is a shame because he is clearly more effective playing that way and with so many teams going small now anyways, it really wouldn't be too much of a problem defensively. There really aren't a whole lot of teams in the East with 4's who you can look at and say that it would be a complete mismatch having Melo guard that player.

[Check my Stats]

Melo is such a bitch man. He says that he wants to win, but doesn't want to do anything to get it. Waste of talent.

[Real Deal]

While that is nice in theory (Melo's PER at the 4 last year was something like 29 compared to 18 or something at the 3), I doubt Melo would consent to playing the 4. I know he has already mentioned not wanting to post up 3's as much because he doesn't like the toll it takes on his body, so what makes you think he would be happy playing the 4?

 

It really is a shame because he is clearly more effective playing that way and with so many teams going small now anyways, it really wouldn't be too much of a problem defensively. There really aren't a whole lot of teams in the East with 4's who you can look at and say that it would be a mismatch having Melo guard that player.

Simply put, Melo is more likely to have the ball in his hands on the perimeter, since post players get ignored every now and then, and Melo doesn't want to be that guy who has to call for the ball (instead of coming to get it) and rely on someone to throw a nice entry pass into the post.

 

He knows he plays better that way, but he also realizes he's going to have to be a better teammate, and that's not in his DNA.

 

If Melo was a better facilitator, I wouldn't have a problem with his decision to stay at the three...but he isn't.

[JYD]

Melo is such a bitch man. He says that he wants to win, but doesn't want to do anything to get it. Waste of talent.

http://media.nj.com/knicks_main/photo/11385476-large.jpg

[Nitro]

While that is nice in theory (Melo's PER at the 4 last year was something like 29 compared to 18 or something at the 3), I doubt Melo would consent to playing the 4. I know he has already mentioned not wanting to post up 3's as much because he doesn't like the toll it takes on his body, so what makes you think he would be happy playing the 4?

 

In theory he'd have to post up less. At the 3 he has the physical advantage against his opponents, so posting up is the better, more efficient philosophy. However, at the 4, his strength is his quickness and taking his opponent away from the paint, which opens up lanes for his teammates.

 

The issue, at least from his perspective, would be the defensive side of the floor. It's basically the same as the Amare situation at the 4/5.

[AboveLegit]

Simply put, Melo is more likely to have the ball in his hands on the perimeter, since post players get ignored every now and then, and Melo doesn't want to be that guy who has to call for the ball (instead of coming to get it) and rely on someone to throw a nice entry pass into the post.

Melo actually took more jumpers from 16-23 feet when playing the 4, but also managed to increase his TS% nearly 8 percentage points due to his ability to take 4's off the dribble and get to the rim.

 

He's really a different player at that position, but like BFT said, his reluctance has more to do with the beating his body takes against those stronger defenders.

 

Consider where he likes the ball, at the elbows and the wings, and his dynamite first step, and it shows why he was so good late last year. He's such a strong finisher at the basket, with one less big man on the floor, it allows Woodson the freedom to bring in those plethora of shooters when the defense collapses.

[Real Deal]

I didn't consider that, actually. Makes a lot of sense...but now my question is, where does that leave Chandler? Would Melo really see enough time at the four to make much of a difference?

[AboveLegit]

Time will tell with Melo, I personally just think that's where he needs to be in order to keep this offense efficient. He's gone on record saying there are options at the 4 other than himself (Sheed? Kurt Thomas? Yikes), which is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

I'm not sure how Chandler fits into the offense, but that's really not a huge deal to begin with. He was featured so much last year because Woodson really couldn't establish a system with his stars constantly being in and out of the lineup. He rolled with a lot of high pick and rolls with Chandler, which was effective due to Lin's ability to get in the lane. The current crop of PG's in NY doesn't inspire much confidence to be blunt, so it's going to be interesting just how much they use Melo the first month of the season.

[AboveLegit]

And just as we discuss this, Zach Lowe writes up another masterpiece, I'll highlight some of his points.

 

On his offense...

The data showed that Melo was the league’s most effective driver, with the Knicks scoring an astronomical number of points per possession on trips when Melo recorded a qualifying drive.

 

On his lazy defense and poor rotations...

The Knicks ranked just 28th in points allowed per possession on spot-up chances, a rare weak spot in an otherwise very good defense.

 

On Amare coming off the bench...

The setup has the potential to unclog New York’s broken offense, which scored a putrid 98.5 points per 100 possession when Stoudemire, Anthony, and Tyson Chandler shared the court together, per NBA.com’s stats database.

the Knicks scored 110.6 points per 100 possessions and allowed 104.6 with Melo at power forward — a net plus-six, a margin typical of one of the league’s five or six best teams.

Opponents shot just 11-of-37 last season against Anthony in the post

 

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/40438/can-carmelo-anthony-really-play-power-forward-and-should-he

[Nitro]

Amare is a max player that still has a ton of talent, but is coming off a down year...to stick him on the bench already could be disastrous to his psyche. And, IMO, the smarter move would be move Chandler to the bench. Either way the minutes ratio wouldn't be too different, and Amare at C is proven to make him a lethal offensive player. But the whole symbolic effect of moving THE guy who chose NY in the 2010 offseason and revived NY basketball to the bench is just wrong.

[The Next Knick]

I just HATE starting a season depleted, it just makes everything feel more difficult and places the shoulda/coulda/woulda thoughts in our heads. I know everyone is talking about how A' mare has been lazy on defense and didn't have the best year, but I still would rather see him Nov 1st.

[AboveLegit]

Amare is a max player that still has a ton of talent, but is coming off a down year...to stick him on the bench already could be disastrous to his psyche. And, IMO, the smarter move would be move Chandler to the bench. Either way the minutes ratio wouldn't be too different, and Amare at C is proven to make him a lethal offensive player. But the whole symbolic effect of moving THE guy who chose NY in the 2010 offseason and revived NY basketball to the bench is just wrong.

Moving Chandler to the bench is not an option. Never mind the fact that with him they're a top 5 defense and without him a bottom 5 defense, I've never been a fan of having two, one-dimensional isolation heavy scorers together. It simply cannot work out with those two.

 

And if the only thing stopping you from being a better overall team is a players' psyche, that's a risk you gotta take.

[Nitro]

Moving Chandler to the bench is not an option. Never mind the fact that with him they're a top 5 defense and without him a bottom 5 defense, I've never been a fan of having two, one-dimensional isolation heavy scorers together. It simply cannot work out with those two.

 

And if the only thing stopping you from being a better overall team is a players' psyche, that's a risk you gotta take.

 

I didn't say moving Chandler to the bench would be a wise choice, but that's how crazy moving Amare to the bench would be.

 

Amare had one down year. He played much of it without a real PG. Before last year many considered him a top 10-15 player, and just 2 years ago he was a legitimate MVP candidate for half the season. To move him to the bench now would be premature and insanely risky for the reasons I mentioned in my last post. The fact of the matter is if they did kill his psyche, the Knicks would NEVER be a contender. Only with his talents along with Melo do they have any chance. The Knicks ain't moving his contract either, so breaking him mentally would be suicide for the franchise.

 

I am not ready to say they absolutely can't coexist. As I said, since they came together they've had such little time with a true PG (and I don't even consider Billups to be that). When you have two scorers who aren't strong playmakers you NEED a very good PG to figure out how to make it work. They may not be the ideal combo, but Amare proved with Nash he can be elite without being extremely ball-dominant, and with Kidd and a little work I fully believe Melo can develop some off-ball skills.

 

I remember the first year of the new Miami Heat, and when things were going rough early on people were suggesting Wade come off the bench. He is naturally an alpha male, and even though in many ways it made sense, they didn't do it. And eventually Wade, and the rest of the team adapted, from LeBron to Bosh to the role players to Spo. Amare has that same personality, and there is too much talent on the Knicks to give up, even if in some respects bringing him off the bench makes sense.

[AboveLegit]

Difference between Wade/LeBron and Melo/Amare is that the latter are one dimensional isolation scorers. How many duo's have won championships with those skill sets? I'd say roughly 0. And no, I'm not expecting a 10 year veteran to make dramatic alterations to his game. Could he make subtle adjustments to his game? Of course, all players do. But the nature of his game won't change.

 

Where's this real PG talk coming from? Do the Knicks even have one? Signing a 39 year old PG, who can't defend anyone at his position at this stage of his career and who had the third lowest usage % among PG's receiving more than 15mpg last year isn't going to solve much of the Knicks offensive woes.

 

With the way this roster is built, something ground breaking has to be done.

[Nitro]

Difference between Wade/LeBron and Melo/Amare is that the latter are one dimensional isolation scorers. How many duo's have won championships with those skill sets? I'd say roughly 0. And no, I'm not expecting a 10 year veteran to make dramatic alterations to his game. Could he make subtle adjustments to his game? Of course, all players do. But the nature of his game won't change.

 

Amare isn't a one-dimensional isolation scorer. He is a tremendous PnR player who also can make strong cuts to the rim off-ball. The whole thing I'm getting at is he hasn't had a true PG on the team really since he got to NY. Without that, he is relegated to iso scoring, and if you add in the injuries and extra weight/position change that he had last season, it is a recipe for a down season.

 

I am not say make dramatic alterations...he doesn't have to. For that matter, neither does Melo, at least offensively.

 

Where's this real PG talk coming from? Do the Knicks even have one? Signing a 39 year old PG, who can't defend anyone at his position at this stage of his career and who had the third lowest usage % among PG's receiving more than 15mpg last year isn't going to solve much of the Knicks offensive woes.

 

Kidd is 39 years old. He no longer can effectively guard quick PG's. He can no longer finish on drives to the rim. He no longer can play 40MPG.

 

What he still can do is orchestrate an offense, run PnR's, distribute the ball in a balanced way factoring in talent, and hit the occasional 3...that is what the Knicks need offensively. Having him will give Amare totally new ways of getting the ball in sweet, efficient spots without having to iso, which he hasn't had with the Knicks for the most part. With Dallas his usage was bound to be low because of the offense they ran. This is a totally different team with different coaching. Kidd will be of a lot more use with NY than he was with Dallas.

 

With the way this roster is built, something ground breaking has to be done.

 

You live and die by superstars. They can't get rid of Amare's contract, and trading Melo is very risky. The only chance any team has to make noise nowadays is with strong play from multiple superstars. NY hasn't had the talent around these two that they have now, 'nor have they even had a full training camp before this year. One down year from Amare shouldn't mean putting up on the bench, especially considering all the circumstances.

[AboveLegit]

Amare isn't a great cutter by any means, he needs the ball in his hands or running the pnr as you mentioned. But off ball movement is something completely different. He's not a good passer, he doesn't rebound the ball well, and his back to the basket game is lacking (he has been working with Olajuwon this summer, so we'll see how that works out). What I'm getting at is he doesn't give you much else on offense, he has the scorer's mentality a la Melo, and I firmly believe that's not a recipe for success in this league.

 

One of these two need to make dramatic alterations to their game. Either Melo has to become a playmaker, or Amare has to develop a sound back to the basket game. But you can't have both of them coming off pin downs and shooting elbow jumpers all day.

 

Kidd cannot orchestrate an offense anymore, nor can he run the pnr like he used to. I'd be shocked if he averaged more than 25mpg this year. And that's a pretty lame excuse for why Kidd didn't produce last year. If anything, Dallas needed someone to run the show last year when defenses keyed in on Dirk. They needed that second threat, but Kidd's physical deficiencies prevented him from doing much. He was pretty useless in the halfcourt last year, he surveyed the floor from the top of the key, made skip passes to spot up shooters, and hit the occasional three. That's all you're going to get from him nowadays.

[Real Deal]

I've always been on Amare's side, when it comes to pinpointing just who should change in this offense. I can't see Amare becoming that back-to-the-basket player...that hasn't been him for years, and while I think he should adjust as he loses athleticism over the years, it can't happen overnight. Gradually is key for him.

 

But the Knicks can't wait for that, and the fact is, Carmelo is a superstar. He's a top three scorer in the NBA (many argue the best). If you have that scoring ability, you should be doing what you can to improve your facilitating.

 

It's the same shit I say about Kevin Durant, but unlike Melo, Durant actually has Harden and Westbrook to carry that role for him.

 

Someone like Anthony has the potential to be a very dangerous player (not just scorer), and I'm talking top five in the league if he were to develop a little more...but as it stands, he's just not there, and it's unfortunate.

 

For that reason, I was never really hyped about Melo and Amare teaming together, especially without a true PG distributing the ball (or Melo refusing to let one do that). I'd think things would be much different if New York had a Steve Nash to work the P&R with Amare and Chandler all game long (good God), and Carmelo maybe wouldn't have to change his game (to become more like LeBron, for example), but instead, accept the fact that he can indeed play off of someone else and STILL be Carmelo Anthony.

 

-------

 

In regards to the position change, again...I just don't see where that leaves Chandler. I can't pull Chandler from the five, because the Knicks need all the defense they can muster up, and I think it's crazy to pull Amare from it simply because he's not going to accept a sixth-man role on a team that he essentially claimed as his just two years ago. Aside from Landry Field and Toney Douglas, nobody else was on that team for over 50 games or so (nobody significant), so you get the idea that Amare was willing to come to what could have been a depleted team just to hold his head high and say he's playing for the Knicks franchise...and now, he's going to become an Antawn Jamison?

[Sħãlïq™]

Look at the bright side -- mo' minutes for this guy:

 

http://media.nj.com/knicks_main/photo/11740748-large.jpg

 

"Who?"

[Built Ford Tough]

In theory he'd have to post up less. At the 3 he has the physical advantage against his opponents, so posting up is the better, more efficient philosophy. However, at the 4, his strength is his quickness and taking his opponent away from the paint, which opens up lanes for his teammates.

 

The issue, at least from his perspective, would be the defensive side of the floor. It's basically the same as the Amare situation at the 4/5.

 

Yeah, I know.

 

I said he doesn't like always posting up 3's because he doesn't like the wear and tear it puts on his body. Having to go up against bigger and stronger defenders every night (which, obviously he would do if he played the 4) would be take way more of a toll on his body than posting up smaller 3's, hence why he doesn't want to play the 4 even though that is his most efficient position on offense.

 

I never said or implied that he would be posting up opposing power forwards. He would obviously be facing them up and taking them from the triple threat position from the elbows.

[The Regime]

He's gonna be out atleast 6 weeks.

 

New York Knicks forward Amar'e Stoudemire will miss at least the first six weeks of the season after re-injuring his surgically repaired left knee, according to league sources.

 

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8571019/amare-stoudemire-new-york-knicks-likely-six-weeks-re-injuring-knee-sources-say

[JYD]

hopefully Rasheed starts...but i doubt it. probably will see a lineup with Melo at the 4...