Would LeBron be 7-8 with Dwight, Pau, Nash on his team?

[Dizzle]

Discuss.

[Nitro]

I believe Miami was 9-8 that first year with prime Wade and Bosh on his team.

 

Not saying that Kobe is as good as, or even that close to LeBron now, but this is not Kobe's fault. And keep in mind Nash has been out pretty much the entire year.

[Real Deal]

I believe Miami was 9-8 that first year with prime Wade and Bosh on his team.

In addition to that, Miami didn't have three different coaches in their first 11 games.

 

Anyone who has been watching LA knows that it's not on Bryant. We are starting our third-string PG, and Kobe is actually running the point most of the time (in fact, he's literally playing the position sometimes).

 

It also doesn't help that Gasol is shooting 42% from the floor, and putting up more shots than Dwight Howard.

 

Out of our nine active players...

 

Dwight Howard (60%)

Kobe Bryant (50%)

-------------

Jordan Hill (44%)

Chris Duhon (44%)

Ron Artest (42%)

Pau Gasol (42%)

Antawn Jamison (42%)

Darius Morris (39%)

Jodie Meeks (35%)

 

That's ridiculous, and why Kobe had 40 last night...and why Kobe/Howard had 57 of our 77 points.

[Real Deal]

I also doubt we'd be 7-8 with Nash playing more than just the 1 1/2 games he has played so far. Nash/Howard P&R would help us greatly.

[Check my Stats]

Looking at the stats, their record is kind of inexplicable. They are efficient offensively (4th according to hoopdata) and while bad defensively (20th right now), they should still be better than 7-8.

 

Turnovers are a concern for sure, but I think we are just looking too much into it right now. Give this team time, they will be fine. With or without Nash, this team is going to the WCF at the very least.

 

Gasol is shooting 23% on shots 3-9 feet, where he normally shoots above 45% - he also takes around a quarter of his shots from there normally. Similarly, he has been brutal from the mid range (22%, usually a shade below 45%), and solid on long 2's (40%, but he still usually shoots higher), but he is taking way too many of them at 5.1 a game, which has been an increasingly concerning trend (trending backwards from this year: 5.1 - 4.1 - 2.8 - 1.6). The problem is that Gasol has a pretty much irrelevant role on this offense - he is literally Zydrunas Ilgauskas on offense, taking almost half his shots from 18 feet away.

 

Its kind of crazy really. i used to shit on Pau all the time, argue that bosh was better (still think it is/was a legitimate discussion at the least), but now, he is getting a brutally bad rap. I think trading him is will wind up being a big mistake unless you fleece a team.

[Nitro]

Looking at the stats, their record is kind of inexplicable. They are efficient offensively (4th according to hoopdata) and while bad defensively (20th right now), they should still be better than 7-8.

 

Where are you getting these numbers. BBR has them 13th in Ortg, and 6th in Drtg.

[Real Deal]

Where are you getting these numbers. BBR has them 13th in Ortg, and 6th in Drtg.

I'm assuming the site he's looking at takes a few more things into consideration. ORtg and DRtg are basically points per 100 possessions, not taking into account FG%, turnovers (for and against), 3PT%, etc.

[Check my Stats]

Hoopdata. I wonder if their shit is outdated. That makes more sense then.

[Nitro]

I'm assuming the site he's looking at takes a few more things into consideration. ORtg and DRtg are basically points per 100 possessions, not taking into account FG%, turnovers (for and against), 3PT%, etc.

 

Still, they are top 11 in opponent PPG, FG% and 3pt%, and the Lakers are top 3 in defensive rebounding. Don't see how they can be in the bottom half of the league in defensive efficiency.

[Check my Stats]

Hasn't been updated since the 25th, obviously not taking into account that brutal game last night lol.

[Dizzle]

I believe Miami was 9-8 that first year with prime Wade and Bosh on his team.

 

Not saying that Kobe is as good as, or even that close to LeBron now, but this is not Kobe's fault. And keep in mind Nash has been out pretty much the entire year.

 

Yes with Wade and Bosh.

 

Dwight,Gasol,Nash is another story not to mention better fit(position wise). The Miami trio doesn't have one guy known for posting up or being a three point shooter to space the floor. Their talents overlapped for the most part, but because of the sheer talent of LeBron James we all knew the Heat would get things together as seen by their two consecutive Finals trips and NBA Championship ring.

 

Even in the games Nash has played he has looked pathetic for the most part. 4.5 PPG and 4 APG? S. Parker had better numbers.

 

This is because Nash needs to play with guys that can work in an uptempo offense. In Dallas(and even Phoenix when they had Shaq) Nash wasn't Nash because he was playing on halfcourt teams. Unless LA turns into showtime (with Gasol-Howard-Kobe LOL?) Nash will continue to underachieve BIG TIME.

 

Anyone who has been watching LA knows that it's not on Bryant. We are starting our third-string PG, and Kobe is actually running the point most of the time (in fact, he's literally playing the position sometimes).

 

It also doesn't help that Gasol is shooting 42% from the floor, and putting up more shots than Dwight Howard.

 

Out of our nine active players...

 

Dwight Howard (60%)

Kobe Bryant (50%)

-------------

Jordan Hill (44%)

Chris Duhon (44%)

Ron Artest (42%)

Pau Gasol (42%)

Antawn Jamison (42%)

Darius Morris (39%)

Jodie Meeks (35%)

 

That's ridiculous, and why Kobe had 40 last night...and why Kobe/Howard had 57 of our 77 points.

 

If LeBron was on that team instead of Kobe he'd just take over the primary ball handling responsibilities and he wouldn't be getting 4+ turnovers per game LOL. LeBron would create better looks for all of his teammates and increase their looks at the basket. It's what seperates the great perimeter players such as Bird,Magic, Jordan, LeBron from Kobe. Superior playmaking and getting others involved while continue to create 50%FG+ opportunities for yourself.

 

Looking at the stats, their record is kind of inexplicable. They are efficient offensively (4th according to hoopdata) and while bad defensively (20th right now), they should still be better than 7-8.

 

Turnovers are a concern for sure, but I think we are just looking too much into it right now. Give this team time, they will be fine. With or without Nash, this team is going to the WCF at the very least.

 

Gasol is shooting 23% on shots 3-9 feet, where he normally shoots above 45% - he also takes around a quarter of his shots from there normally. Similarly, he has been brutal from the mid range (22%, usually a shade below 45%), and solid on long 2's (40%, but he still usually shoots higher), but he is taking way too many of them at 5.1 a game, which has been an increasingly concerning trend (trending backwards from this year: 5.1 - 4.1 - 2.8 - 1.6). The problem is that Gasol has a pretty much irrelevant role on this offense - he is literally Zydrunas Ilgauskas on offense, taking almost half his shots from 18 feet away.

 

Its kind of crazy really. i used to shit on Pau all the time, argue that bosh was better (still think it is/was a legitimate discussion at the least), but now, he is getting a brutally bad rap. I think trading him is will wind up being a big mistake unless you fleece a team.

 

Gasol was getting trashed by LA fans even after he won them the championship in Game 7 of the 2010 Finals when he scored 19 points, 18 rebounds and was robbed of the Finals MVP Honors even after Kobe shot 6-24 in the deciding game. It's nothing new.

 

LA is an awful defensive team though, especially in transition and it will not improve. They don't have one quality defender on the wing, and Howard looks worse this year seeing as how Kobe is lowering his confidence with his poor leadership abilities. With Mike D'antonio now at the helm I don't see them improving and their defense is already bad despite whatever kind of flawed advanced statistic someone wants to throw at you.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Dizzle

[Nitro]

Yes with Wade and Bosh.

 

Dwight,Gasol,Nash is another story not to mention better fit(position wise). The Miami trio doesn't have one guy known for posting up or being a three point shooter to space the floor. Their talents overlapped for the most part, but because of the sheer talent of LeBron James we all knew the Heat would get things together as seen by their two consecutive Finals trips and NBA Championship ring.

 

Take Nash out of the equation, he's played like 35 minutes total this season.

 

Dwight is coming off a serious back surgery and is used to a system with 4 shooters around him at all time, and has never been around around an iso scorer like Kobe, 'nor a big man like Pau who doesn't provide the spacing guys like Rashard Lewis and Ryan Andersen did for him.

 

And yes, LeBron's sheer talent makes up for so many team deficiencies....but he's also the best player in the game at his absolute peak, and is one of the most versatile players of all-time. Kobe is in his 17th season, to expect him to do what LeBron does is unrealistic. For that matter to expect ANYONE in the league to do what he does is unrealistic.

 

Even in the games Nash has played he has looked pathetic for the most part. 4.5 PPG and 4 APG? TRASH had better numbers.

 

This is because Nash needs to play with guys that can work in an uptempo offense. In Dallas(and even Phoenix when they had Shaq) Nash wasn't Nash because he was playing on halfcourt teams. Unless LA turns into showtime (with Gasol-Howard-Kobe LOL?) Nash will continue to underachieve BIG TIME.

 

Dallas had the #1 rated offense in the league the last few years Nash was there. Just because he wasn't leading the league in assists doesn't mean his personal and team effectiveness wasn't there.

 

And 1.5 games isn't enough to judge his play, especially since at the time he was playing with an awful offensive coach in a brand new system with a totally new supporting cast.

 

Lastly, Nash doesn't need to run and gun to be highly effective offensively. He's arguably the best pick and roll PG in the league, and with Pau and Dwight he can be lethal in halfcourt sets, along with being an elite 3pt shooter. If he comes back healthy, he and the offense should be just fine. It may not maximize his talents individually, but the team will be more dangerous and multi-faceted than his Suns ever were.

[Dizzle]

Take Nash out of the equation, he's played like 35 minutes total this season.

 

Dwight is coming off a serious back surgery and is used to a system with 4 shooters around him at all time, and has never been around around an iso scorer like Kobe, 'nor a big man like Pau who doesn't provide the spacing guys like Rashard Lewis and Ryan Andersen did for him.

 

And yes, LeBron's sheer talent makes up for so many team deficiencies....but he's also the best player in the game at his absolute peak, and is one of the most versatile players of all-time. Kobe is in his 17th season, to expect him to do what LeBron does is unrealistic. For that matter to expect ANYONE in the league to do what he does is unrealistic.

 

 

 

Dallas had the #1 rated offense in the league the last few years Nash was there. Just because he wasn't leading the league in assists doesn't mean his personal and team effectiveness wasn't there.

 

And 1.5 games isn't enough to judge his play, especially since at the time he was playing with an awful offensive coach in a brand new system with a totally new supporting cast.

 

Lastly, Nash doesn't need to run and gun to be highly effective offensively. He's arguably the best pick and roll PG in the league, and with Pau and Dwight he can be lethal in halfcourt sets, along with being an elite 3pt shooter. If he comes back healthy, he and the offense should be just fine. It may not maximize his talents individually, but the team will be more dangerous and multi-faceted than his Suns ever were.

 

The reality of it is that the Lakers are done. I said it while Ron Artest was boasting that they were going to win 73 games and I will stand by it.

 

At this point Kobe Bryant is DONE. Done as in he can't lead teams to titles anymore(whether he ever did it or not is arguable in itself). Mitch Kupchak realized this and that's why he pursued Dwight so hard. If LA has any hope at all of winning it all, this has to be Dwights team because he is the only one explosive enough on the team to lead them to the promised land. Kobe will not agree to this though and will score 40 points with 10 turnovers in losses before he sees that happen!! Certainly not a formula for success.

 

If Dwight is not comfortable LA goes home in the first round....MAYBE 2nd round, but I think thats a stretch. Either way this team has no shot at beating the elite teams like OKC, and SA unless MVP canditates Durant and Duncan get hurt.

 

 

Nash is not an all-star on a halfcourt team. His shooting will be there, but without a system like Phoenix he isn't Steve Nash, just an average point guard with no defense.

 

LeBron is the best player in the [expletive]ing league, and it's a privilege to watch this man dominate all facets of the game on a nightly basis. If the Lakers had LeBron instead of Kobe they would be 10-3 contending for first place in the West.

[NomarFachix]

Matt Hubbs eating some cotton candy

[Force]

Strong Kobe/Laker hate and Lebron love ITT. I like that you back up your shit though OP.

 

And the answer is no, they wouldnt be 7-8. But the team's record doesn't completely fall on Kobe, we got much bigger problems right now

[Real Deal]

Stop trolling, Matt.

[Nitro]

The reality of it is that the Lakers are done. I said it while Ron Artest was boasting that they were going to win 73 games and I will stand by it.

 

At this point Kobe Bryant is DONE. Done as in he can't lead teams to titles anymore(whether he ever did it or not is arguable in itself). Mitch Kupchak realized this and that's why he pursued Dwight so hard. If LA has any hope at all of winning it all, this has to be Dwights team because he is the only one explosive enough on the team to lead them to the promised land. Kobe will not agree to this though and will score 40 points with 10 turnovers in losses before he sees that happen!! Certainly not a formula for success.

 

If Dwight is not comfortable LA goes home in the first round....MAYBE 2nd round, but I think thats a stretch. Either way this team has no shot at beating the elite teams like OKC, and SA unless MVP canditates Durant and Duncan get hurt.

 

I agree that Dwight needs to be at least 1B to Kobe in order for this team to win a championship, but Kobe is not done. He is leading the league in scoring and is having his most efficient season ever...honestly he is playing better right now than he did the last season he won a championship.

 

And that last paragraph is idiotic. Dallas went through Miami without LeBron getting hurt, the '04 Pistons went through LA without Shaq or Kobe being hurt, etc... This is a team game, and the Lakers will likely outclass any team they face in terms of talent. Whether it all comes together remains to be seen, but if it does then OKC and SA are not better teams than a healthy Laker team. It doesn't matter if Durant is better at this point than Kobe, or if Duncan is better.

 

Nash is not an all-star on a halfcourt team. His shooting will be there, but without a system like Phoenix he isn't Steve Nash, just an average point guard with no defense.

 

LeBron is the best player in the [expletive]ing league, and it's a privilege to watch this man dominate all facets of the game on a nightly basis. If the Lakers had LeBron instead of Kobe they would be 10-3 contending for first place in the West.

 

Once again, Dallas had the #1 offense in the league when Nash was there in a halfcourt set. He didn't put up the record-breaking stats, but he still made a huge impact.

 

Look at it like the Bulls that won 72 games. The season before Ron Harper was a 20/5/5 type player, but he had a much smaller role when he got with the Bulls. Even though he didn't have the same stats or role as he did on a lesser-talented team, he still made a HUGE impact on arguably the greatest team in NBA history. Nash didn't go to LA to be the 20/10 player he was in Phoenix...he knew that going in, as did the organization. And if everything clicks the way it could, there is no reason for him to have the same responsibility. It would be counter-productive to the team.

 

And LeBron is the best player in the league...by far. I'm probably the biggest LeBron supporter in this place. But fact of the matter is this is a team game, and it takes awhile for these super-teams to gel, especially if one of them (Nash) isn't playing, and another (Dwight) is coming off a serious back surgery...on top of having 3 different coaches in a 10 game span. I saw it with Miami in 2010 when they got off to a slow 9-8 start because of chemistry issues, and when they did finally click they reeled off like 14 straight wins and got to the Finals. Talent will eventually prevail, and this Laker team is no different. If they are still a .500 team midway through the season, with the entire team healthy, then you can start dissecting the situation.

[Dizzle]

I agree that Dwight needs to be at least 1B to Kobe in order for this team to win a championship, but Kobe is not done. He is leading the league in scoring and is having his most efficient season ever...honestly he is playing better right now than he did the last season he won a championship.

 

And that last paragraph is idiotic. Dallas went through Miami without LeBron getting hurt, the '04 Pistons went through LA without Shaq or Kobe being hurt, etc... This is a team game, and the Lakers will likely outclass any team they face in terms of talent. Whether it all comes together remains to be seen, but if it does then OKC and SA are not better teams than a healthy Laker team. It doesn't matter if Durant is better at this point than Kobe, or if Duncan is better.

 

Kobe is not playing better than he was during his last season. Based on numbers alone? Maybe. But you have to look beyond that. Things like Defense, Hustle, Speed, Explosiveness cannot be quantified by statistics. Kobes defense is now worse than ever. He cant fill the lanes as quickly and he is more reliant on the jumpshot. Through 15 games his FG% may be high, but if you think those jumpshots will keep going in and he keeps up that pace, good luck with that.

 

Based on pure NUMBERS Kobe is having his best season in quite some time, yet his team is still below .500 despite having Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol. He had a better winning percentage with Parker,Kwame Brown, and Chris Mihm.

 

Jerry Stackhouse had the most total points in the NBA in the 2000-01 NBA season. To say he was an elite player is laughable.

 

As for your scenarios...

-LeBron decided to defer and be the Pippen to Wade in the 2011 Finals for whatever reason when he was the best player in the league. LeBron is too unselfish, but has learned from his decision. I don't see any similar situations like this regarding the current LA team unless you mean Kobe agreeing to defer to Howard. That'll be the day.

 

-Kobe blew the 2004 Finals by deciding he'd rather lose as the man than win as the sidekick. He decided his fallaway jumpers with Prince and Hamilton on him were more efficient scoring options than Shaq postups on Ben Wallace in which Shaq had 26 PPG and nearly 60% shooting.

 

The Lakers dont have good enough role players for Kobes usual shit to slide. When they won in 2010 and 2009 they had infinitely more talent than the rest of the league. Kobe is the only superstar in NBA History to never win a series as the clear underdog.

 

 

Once again, Dallas had the #1 offense in the league when Nash was there in a halfcourt set. He didn't put up the record-breaking stats, but he still made a huge impact.

 

Look at it like the Bulls that won 72 games. The season before Ron Harper was a 20/5/5 type player, but he had a much smaller role when he got with the Bulls. Even though he didn't have the same stats or role as he did on a lesser-talented team, he still made a HUGE impact on arguably the greatest team in NBA history. Nash didn't go to LA to be the 20/10 player he was in Phoenix...he knew that going in, as did the organization. And if everything clicks the way it could, there is no reason for him to have the same responsibility. It would be counter-productive to the team.

 

And LeBron is the best player in the league...by far. I'm probably the biggest LeBron supporter in this place. But fact of the matter is this is a team game, and it takes awhile for these super-teams to gel, especially if one of them (Nash) isn't playing, and another (Dwight) is coming off a serious back surgery...on top of having 3 different coaches in a 10 game span. I saw it with Miami in 2010 when they got off to a slow 9-8 start because of chemistry issues, and when they did finally click they reeled off like 14 straight wins and got to the Finals. Talent will eventually prevail, and this Laker team is no different. If they are still a .500 team midway through the season, with the entire team healthy, then you can start dissecting the situation.

 

 

Nash would not be in the hall of fame if he continue his Dallas pace for the duration of his career. Phoenix is where he became a hall of famer.

 

Maybe if the Lakers had an all-time great like LeBron James I'd be inclined to agree with you, but I've seen nothing from this team that makes me think redemption. Maybe Phil Jackson or Sloan could have done something, but with overrated star players, grandpa bench, and inept coachs like Mike Brown/Mike D'antonio I see no reason this team will turn it around. First round and out....2nd round as the ceiling.

[Nitro]

Kobe is not playing better than he was during his last season. Based on numbers alone? Maybe. But you have to look beyond that. Things like Defense, Hustle, Speed, Explosiveness cannot be quantified by statistics. Kobes defense is now worse than ever. He cant fill the lanes as quickly and he is more reliant on the jumpshot. Through 15 games his FG% may be high, but if you think those jumpshots will keep going in and he keeps up that pace, good luck with that.

 

This is FALSE, specificially his defense. Check the advanced this season....his opponent PER in near a league low, and with Dwight backing him up he has been able to be more aggressive defensively than he has been in YEARS.

 

And I don't think he will continue shooting this well from the field. But if he maintains 46-48% and with a TS% of around .580, that will be elite.

 

Jerry Stackhouse had the most total points in the NBA in the 2000-01 NBA season. To say he was an elite player is laughable.

 

Stackhouse was extremely inefficient and did NOTHING but score. To compare him to Kobe this season is a [expletive]ing joke.

 

As for your scenarios...

-LeBron decided to defer and be the Pippen to Wade in the 2011 Finals for whatever reason when he was the best player in the league. LeBron is too unselfish, but has learned from his decision. I don't see any similar situations like this regarding the current LA team unless you mean Kobe agreeing to defer to Howard. That'll be the day.

 

-Kobe blew the 2004 Finals by deciding he'd rather lose as the man than win as the sidekick. He decided his fallaway jumpers with Prince and Hamilton on him were more efficient scoring options than Shaq postups on Ben Wallace in which Shaq had 26 PPG and nearly 60% shooting.

 

The Lakers dont have good enough role players for Kobes usual shit to slide. When they won in 2010 and 2009 they had infinitely more talent than the rest of the league. Kobe is the only superstar in NBA History to never win a series as the clear underdog.

 

Infinitely more talent than the rest of the league? Bynum was either completely injured or playing on one leg in both the 2009 and 2010 post-seasons, and besides that he had Pau, Odom, and half the rest of the roster isn't even in the league anymore (Sasha, Farmar, Fisher, Walton, etc...). He had a great team around him, but it wasn't leagues ahead of his peers.

 

And as for your rebuttals to my scenarios, you aren't getting the point. The team with the best player doesn't always win, it's a team game. In '04 the Lakers had by FAR the 2 best players and they got tossed in 5. The '11 Heat had 3 of the 4 best players on the court (and Wade actually had the best series, including Dirk), and yet they got beat in 6 games. Games aren't always decided by which team has the best player. It's who has the best team.

 

Nash would not be in the hall of fame if he continue his Dallas pace for the duration of his career. Phoenix is where he became a hall of famer.

 

Maybe if the Lakers had an all-time great like LeBron James I'd be inclined to agree with you, but I've seen nothing from this team that makes me think redemption. Maybe Phil Jackson or Sloan could have done something, but with overrated star players, grandpa bench, and inept coachs like Mike Brown/Mike D'antonio I see no reason this team will turn it around. First round and out....2nd round as the ceiling.

 

ONCE AGAIN, Nash doesn't need to post HoF numbers for this team to win.

 

Ok, if the Ron Harper thing didn't click, let's look at Isiah Thomas. He put up HoF numbers earlier in his career, and while his teams were good, they didn't win shit. When his stats took a hit due to his changing role and various team needs, he won 2 championships, back-to-back.

 

Point being is Nash doesn't need to put up huge stats to win. Turning Kobe and Pau into spot-up jumpshooters, and not giving Dwight enough post opportunities will NOT maximize this team's talent. These aren't the Los Angeles Suns. Playing a role more similar to what he did in Dallas, who HAD THE NUMBER ONE OFFENSE IN THE LEAGUE MULTIPLE YEARS, is what will serve this team best.

 

The grandpa bench and inept coach could end up killing this team, but that would not be Kobe, Dwight or Nash's fault.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Nitro

[Cleveland's Finest]

This has nothing to do with Kobe. Or Pau.

 

This is all on Dwight. He's caused the offense to be out of sync. He can't shoot free throws and his rebounds are at an unusual low.

 

If the Lakers had another center like Noah, Varejao, or Hibbert, they'd be just fine. You don't know what you'll get out of Dwight Howard anymore.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Cleveland's Finest

[Dizzle]

This is FALSE, specificially his defense. Check the advanced this season....his opponent PER in near a league low, and with Dwight backing him up he has been able to be more aggressive defensively than he has been in YEARS.

 

And I don't think he will continue shooting this well from the field. But if he maintains 46-48% and with a TS% of around .580, that will be elite.

 

Lol oppenent PER? What the [expletive] is this shit? Kobe guards the other teams worst offensive threat every night, he makes little to no impact on that end of the floor. Next.

 

Stackhouse was extremely inefficient and did NOTHING but score. To compare him to Kobe this season is a [expletive]ing joke.

 

What else does Kobe do? Give you average rebounding and playmaking in major minutes?

 

Infinitely more talent than the rest of the league? Bynum was either completely injured or playing on one leg in both the 2009 and 2010 post-seasons, and besides that he had Pau, Odom, and half the rest of the roster isn't even in the league anymore (Sasha, Farmar, Fisher, Walton, etc...). He had a great team around him, but it wasn't leagues ahead of his peers.

 

And as for your rebuttals to my scenarios, you aren't getting the point. The team with the best player doesn't always win, it's a team game. In '04 the Lakers had by FAR the 2 best players and they got tossed in 5. The '11 Heat had 3 of the 4 best players on the court (and Wade actually had the best series, including Dirk), and yet they got beat in 6 games. Games aren't always decided by which team has the best player. It's who has the best team.

 

The Lakers were the favorites against every opponent they faced in either playoff run, with or without Bynum.

 

Those guys like Sasha,Farmar,Ariza,whatever may not sound like appealing names, but in those years those were some high energy contributors that were nice to have off your bench. Those guys brought energy and spark off the bench. Who does LA have now? Jamison? Steve Blake? LOL Ill take young legs over useless veteran anyday.

 

Yes games are decided by who has the best player. Look at the teams throughout history that won THE game, the championship. You will see top ELITE hall of famers on nearly every team(except the Pistons).

 

 

ONCE AGAIN, Nash doesn't need to post HoF numbers for this team to win.

 

Ok, if the Ron Harper thing didn't click, let's look at Isiah Thomas. He put up HoF numbers earlier in his career, and while his teams were good, they didn't win shit. When his stats took a hit due to his changing role and various team needs, he won 2 championships, back-to-back.

 

Point being is Nash doesn't need to put up huge stats to win. Turning Kobe and Pau into spot-up jumpshooters, and not giving Dwight enough post opportunities will NOT maximize this team's talent. These aren't the Los Angeles Suns. Playing a role more similar to what he did in Dallas, who HAD THE NUMBER ONE OFFENSE IN THE LEAGUE MULTIPLE YEARS, is what will serve this team best.

 

The grandpa bench and inept coach could end up killing this team, but that would not be Kobe, Dwight or Nash's fault.

 

So if Nash gets single digit points/assists the Lakers will get what they thought they were with Nash? Nope.

 

Good luck having Nash replicate his Dallas numbers with Kome in the starting lineup. I look forward to that idea actually coming to fruition. LOL

[Nitro]

This has nothing to do with Kobe. Or Pau.

 

This is all on Dwight. He's caused the offense to be out of sync. He can't shoot free throws and his rebounds are at an unusual low.

 

If the Lakers had another center like Noah, Varejao, or Hibbert, they'd be just fine. You don't know what you'll get out of Dwight Howard anymore.

 

How can someone taking like 10 shots a game (shooting 60% on them) be throwing this team sooooo out of sync? His defensive stats are phenominal as well, and his rebounding is slightly lower than usual because he's playing next to a guy who is naturally a C in Pau.

 

If he was getting so many offensive opportunities you might have a slight reason to say that, but he's not getting a ton of opportunities.

[NomarFachix]

What else does Kobe do? Give you average rebounding and playmaking in major minutes?

Prime Stackhouse dropping 30 a game still carried a PER almost 4 points lower than Kobe has this season. At 34.

 

Good luck having Nash replicate his Dallas numbers with Kome in the starting lineup. I look forward to that idea actually coming to fruition. LOL

Similar role =/= similar numbers

[Real Deal]

He's trolling. That means there's little to no logic for anything he says, guys.

 

Numbers only matter for his argument. LeBron puts up great numbers, he's great. Same with Shaq.

 

If he actually grew up since using his old username, he'd dive into some other topics and debate something different, instead of recycling the same shit from 2005.

[Dizzle]

Prime Stackhouse dropping 30 a game still carried a PER almost 4 points lower than Kobe has this season. At 34.

 

 

So what does Kobe give you on the court other than scoring? Specifics please. Nothing else he does is above an average NBA level.

 

 

He's trolling. That means there's little to no logic for anything he says, guys.

 

Numbers only matter for his argument. LeBron puts up great numbers, he's great. Same with Shaq.

 

If he actually grew up since using his old username, he'd dive into some other topics and debate something different, instead of recycling the same shit from 2005.

 

Just because I don't have the same opinion as you doesn't mean I'm trolling. If you have a problem with a specific feel free to point it out. Everything I say is true. Whether you want to believe it or not is your prerogative.