Will The Lakers Make A Move Before The Trade Deadline?

[Alpha 4]

I honestly don't think so. Just making this thread after seeing the 200+ long wishlist page on TLN for Pau Gasol to get traded.

[Real Deal]

There's no doubt in my mind that they are looking to trade Pau Gasol and Ron Artest, but with Gasol, I think the Lakers are looking for far too much...and that may ruin any potential trade we can make with him included.

 

And what team would want Ron Artest now? He's not a great defensive player anymore, he is probably too unstable to play for any team other than the Lakers (can't imagine how he'd act if he left LA and Kobe), and he puts the ball on the floor FAR too much to drive to the rim.

[NomarFachix]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aw776g5

[Real Deal]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aw776g5

Lakers fans have brought it up, but we'd only trade for Amare if we were a good defensive team already. The worst thing about Gasol isn't that he's so reluctant to shoot, but that his defense is as effective as a cup of water for an apartment fire, and Amare is no better.

 

I'd love to have Novak, though, simply because we have no three-point shooters outside of Nash (who refuses to shoot them).

[NomarFachix]

So there you go! Slight offensive upgrade and a 3 point shooter in return for an injury risk give and take

Edited January 18, 2013 by iMan

[Real Deal]

So there you go! Slight offensive upgrade and a 3 point shooter in return for an injury risk give and take

LA would be a MUCH better offensive team if we played to our superstars' strengths. Last night, the Nash P&R was pathetic. He can only play in one system...and play in it REALLY good...but that system doesn't fit here.

 

Slight offensive upgrade, major defensive downgrade losing Ron. Even though he doesn't defend like he used to, he's 10x the defender Novak is.

 

I already feel like we've been trying to turn this team into the Phoenix Suns. Even if we were to win 60 games every year, that's the last thing I want.

 

It's a championship-or-bust mentality until Kobe retires OR declines to the point where he's not able to drop 20 a night anymore (he'll retire first). THEN we start rebuilding around Dwight, or another star.

 

Brown and D'Antoni have been two bad choices. I didn't oppose bringing Nash in, but only if we didn't try and build our offense around him. Now, he's feeding shooters that we don't have, he's not getting the ball into Dwight at all, and he's not taking enough shots when he has them wide open...and I don't get the logic behind it. He says we should feed Dwight, but D'Antoni comes out saying things about how Gasol can stretch the floor, this team can run, Ron can shoot as much as he wants when he's open...and I'm just thinking about how dumb everything sounds.

 

Bernie Bickerstaff may not have had an offensive system in place, but he kept Brown's defensive system AND told this team to win based on the talent they can put out there on the court. Turnovers were down, we were structuring somewhat of an offense around Kobe and Dwight, Nash wasn't even playing (injury), and we looked much better out there.

[kingfish]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aw776g5

Id do that trade in a heartbeat, except I might be reluctant to trade MWP and you guys can keep Novak. Amare for Pau straight up. Amare is way better offensively at this point, he has a consistent jumper and usually finishes strong at the rim. Hes not a good defender, but he isnt soft like Gasol. Amare will at least challenge your shot at the rim, and its not an automatic layup against him.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KjgpTb5H2M

 

As for Gasol, well....

 

http://www.hachisvertas.net/temp/pau-gasolaurios.gif

[Real Deal]

Id do that trade in a heartbeat, except I might be reluctant to trade MWP and you guys can keep Novak. Amare for Pau straight up. Amare is way better offensively at this point, he has a consistent jumper and usually finishes strong at the rim. Hes not a good defender, but he isnt soft like Gasol. Amare will at least challenge your shot at the rim, and its not an automatic layup against him.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KjgpTb5H2M

That video was when Amare averaged 25 PPG and blocked two shots a night...two years ago. He's now putting up the worst numbers of his career.

[NomarFachix]

He's now putting up the worst numbers of his career.

To be fair, so is Pau.. I think reuniting Amar'e with Nash/D'Antoni is a brilliant risk/reward move and worth Pau for LA. If your worry is Metta/Novak, I get that. Novak is pretty stinky on D.

[Sħãlïq™]

(...) As for Gasol, well....

 

http://www.hachisvertas.net/temp/pau-gasolaurios.gif

LMAO! This never gets old... One of the Most Hilarious GIFs ever!!!

Edited January 18, 2013 by Sħãlïq™

[Real Deal]

I think reuniting Amar'e with Nash/D'Antoni is a brilliant risk/reward move and worth Pau for LA.

Gives MDA and Nash more of a reason to run the same offense they did in Phoenix. That's why that ship has sailed for me long ago, plus us not improving on the defensive end.

 

Additionally, regardless of what anyone thinks (including me), Jim Buss doesn't want to be stuck with an extra $23+ million on this roster in the summer of 2014. Currently, only Nash's $9.7 million is on that list. Everyone else expires or has already expired before the 2013-14 season...and there's a reason for that. Amare will be making $23 million in 2014-15, and Novak will have his contract for two seasons AFTER that summer. Very, very bad news for LA.

 

With that in mind, honestly, I'm going to safely assume that's the last thing the Lakers want to do.

[Alpha 4]

Bernie Bickerstaff may not have had an offensive system in place, but he kept Brown's defensive system AND told this team to win based on the talent they can put out there on the court. Turnovers were down, we were structuring somewhat of an offense around Kobe and Dwight, Nash wasn't even playing (injury), and we looked much better out there.

 

BB pretty much just was like "Go out there and just play."

[Sħãlïq™]

Will The Lakers Make A Move Before The Trade Deadline?

(...) Pau isn't going anywhere. He isn't the only defensive liability on the team

And they should (make a move), someone needs to help Kobi-Wan:

 

Kobe Bryant: Need to 'save energy'

Updated: January 18, 2013, 10:41 AM ET By Dave McMenamin | ESPNLosAngeles.com

 

LOS ANGELES -- It was asking a lot of Kobe Bryant when the Los Angeles Lakers shifted to assigning the 34-year-old to guarding the opposing team's most dynamic guard while still relying on him on the offensive end.

 

It was asking so much, in fact, that Bryant admitted after the Lakers' 99-90 loss to the Miami Heat on Thursday that he will need some help to be able to continue it. After holding Cleveland's Kyrie Irving to just 15 points and Milwaukee's Brandon Jennings to 12 points in consecutive wins while still averaging 27.0 points on 63.6 percent shooting the past two games, Bryant's defense and offense both took a major hit against Miami.

 

Not only did Bryant's man on defense, Dwyane Wade, score 27 points on 11-for-20 shooting, but Bryant's offense also struggled, as he scored just 22 points on 8-for-25 shooting (32 percent). Bryant, who leads the league in scoring at 29.7 points per game, said that alleviating some pressure on him on offense will in turn allow him to apply more pressure on defense.

 

 

 

“I need some help offensively to save energy and not have to isolate and do things like that. I'm going to need some picks. I'm going to need to catch-and-shoot … to make my job a little easier. ” -- Kobe

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8856259/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-says-needs-help-offense-focuses-defense

Edited January 19, 2013 by Sħãlïq™

[Lkr]

lol offense isn't even the problem.

[Real Deal]

lol offense isn't even the problem.

PPG =/= good offense, though.

 

We are 3rd in 3PTA/G...yet shoot average from three (last time I checked, it was 15th in the league). Missed threes create long rebounds and ignite fast breaks we can't stop.

 

We are 24th in turnovers. Our turnovers do the same, igniting breaks.

 

We are 29th in free throws.

 

We aren't even top 10 in assists.

 

ALL of that is offense...and not only that, but we have to rely on Kobe scoring 30 a night, on 48% FG, for 39 MPG (which is FAR too high) to win our games or even come close to it.

 

Our fast pace, and Kobe/Dwight nearly 50 together each night, is why we score 103 PPG, not us having a very good offense.

 

Ron Artest is attempting 11.3 FGA/G. That's more than everyone NOT named Kobe Bryant...more than Dwight, Nash, Gasol, and Jamison. That is a problem.

 

-----------------

 

Yeah...we don't defend well, either. We're ranked 21st, defensively...but just two weeks ago, when Miami had the best record in the Eastern Conference (and I believe they still do), the Heat were ranked 23rd on the defensive end. The Knicks (who are 2nd in the East) are ranked 16th right now.

 

If we had a better offensive strategy, that catered to our two best players, and we stopped launching threes mindlessly, we would have less turnovers AND would have to worry less about long boards. It may not turn us into one of the top five best defensive teams in the league, but we wouldn't be in the 20's, either.

 

Trading Gasol would seal the deal on the defensive end, and then running a different offense would put us top five offense AND top ten defense in the NBA. That's where we need to be.

[Lkr]

PPG =/= good offense, though.

 

We are 3rd in 3PTA/G...yet shoot average from three (last time I checked, it was 15th in the league). Missed threes create long rebounds and ignite fast breaks we can't stop.

 

We are 24th in turnovers. Our turnovers do the same, igniting breaks.

 

We are 29th in free throws.

 

We aren't even top 10 in assists.

 

ALL of that is offense...and not only that, but we have to rely on Kobe scoring 30 a night, on 48% FG, for 39 MPG (which is FAR too high) to win our games or even come close to it.

 

Our fast pace, and Kobe/Dwight nearly 50 together each night, is why we score 103 PPG, not us having a very good offense.

 

Ron Artest is attempting 11.3 FGA/G. That's more than everyone NOT named Kobe Bryant...more than Dwight, Nash, Gasol, and Jamison. That is a problem.

 

-----------------

 

Yeah...we don't defend well, either. We're ranked 21st, defensively...but just two weeks ago, when Miami had the best record in the Eastern Conference (and I believe they still do), the Heat were ranked 23rd on the defensive end. The Knicks (who are 2nd in the East) are ranked 16th right now.

 

If we had a better offensive strategy, that catered to our two best players, and we stopped launching threes mindlessly, we would have less turnovers AND would have to worry less about long boards. It may not turn us into one of the top five best defensive teams in the league, but we wouldn't be in the 20's, either.

 

Trading Gasol would seal the deal on the defensive end, and then running a different offense would put us top five offense AND top ten defense in the NBA. That's where we need to be.

We can make adjustments just fine with the current offense. The personnel is fine, Dan Tony is just an awful coach. Trading Gasol won't reduce turnovers either.

[Real Deal]

We can make adjustments just fine with the current offense.

Hard to adjust the Nash offense to accommodate a player that played the four-out, one-in offense in Orlando catered to him being in the post (Howard) and another who has led his team in assists almost every year he has been a starter (Kobe).

 

The adjustments would have to be made by our two superstars if we keep the current offense, and that's bullshit, in my opinion. You don't tell the superstars to adjust, you force the role players to adjust...and Nash, being a 50/40/90 shooter and supposedly a genius on the offensive end, should be able to adjust to play in half court sets.

 

What adjustments can they make? MDA doesn't like to post up players.

 

The personnel is fine, Dan Tony is just an awful coach.

MDA isn't the right coach for this team, period. His brother, as the assistant, follows his lead. We don't have a defensive assistant coach, other than Steve Clifford, who came from Orlando...and I don't think he knows what to do without a Stan Van Gundy above him, but that's irrelevant at this point.

 

Trading Gasol won't reduce turnovers either.

It's not for offense. Trading Gasol means we can start someone else at PF (like Earl Clark, if we don't get back another PF), and it makes us a better defensive team. As it stands, we have three dreadful defenders on this team: Gasol, Nash, and Jamison. At least Jamison and Nash make attempts to play defense...Nash chasing around Ray Allen all game long, Jamison contesting and trying to do something on that end (even though it's just sad). Gasol is a lazy POS.

[Nitro]

As someone else said, offense isn't the problem. Kobe's one of the 2-3 best scorers in the league, Nash is one of the best shooters and passers, and Dwight's the best finisher. Most offensive holes they have are because of the supporting cast...that can be patched up mostly with small trades, FA signings (waivers, guys like Delonte West and Kenyon Martin, etc..) and continuing to try and work Pau in different lineups to maximize what he can give you.

 

The team needs help defensively, and until they get better there they won't make the playoffs.

 

As far as major trades go, the Lakers just don't have the pieces. Pretty much no attractive young talent, no draft picks, Pau and Metta are undesirable trade-bait with bad contracts, etc... However, their top talent is good enough to get them by, and there is enough value out their to make a few moves to get a lot stronger after the top 4. And when that happens, their stars will play better, and the team will finally come together. Probably a little too late, though.

[Real Deal]

As someone else said, offense isn't the problem. Kobe's one of the 2-3 best scorers in the league, Nash is one of the best shooters and passers, and Dwight's the best finisher.

That's all on paper, dude. Ron Artest is taking more FGA/G than Howard, Nash, and Gasol. Kobe is still averaging 30 PPG. We are shooting more threes than 27 other teams in the NBA, but are at a league average in percentage. We are turning the ball over far, far too much. We can't make free throws.

 

How is offense not a problem of ours?

 

Defense is the biggest problem we have, but our offense is dragging our guys down, having to chase down players on the break off of turnovers and long boards, and just having to play in a system that doesn't work with who we have (and I'll continue to stick by this as long as we're losing, because Howard is not being featured out there).

 

Did you watch the Miami game? 16 turnovers in the first half, leading to around 20 Miami points. Given they shot around 2-19 from outside the paint in the first half of that game, and basically made everything inside, you'd think the entire course of that game would have been changed if we didn't turn the ball over in that first half as many times as we do an entire game.

 

Our decisions on the offensive end most certainly alter how we play (or are forced to play) defense. That has been a part of basketball for years.

[Nitro]

That's all on paper, dude. Ron Artest is taking more FGA/G than Howard, Nash, and Gasol. Kobe is still averaging 30 PPG. We are shooting more threes than 27 other teams in the NBA, but are at a league average in percentage. We are turning the ball over far, far too much. We can't make free throws.

 

How is offense not a problem of ours?

 

Defense is the biggest problem we have, but our offense is dragging our guys down, having to chase down players on the break off of turnovers and long boards, and just having to play in a system that doesn't work with who we have (and I'll continue to stick by this as long as we're losing, because Howard is not being featured out there).

 

Did you watch the Miami game? 16 turnovers in the first half, leading to around 20 Miami points. Given they shot around 2-19 from outside the paint in the first half of that game, and basically made everything inside, you'd think the entire course of that game would have been changed if we didn't turn the ball over in that first half as many times as we do an entire game.

 

Our decisions on the offensive end most certainly alter how we play (or are forced to play) defense. That has been a part of basketball for years.

 

First off, I said offense wasn't "the" problem...they are 6th in Ortg so far this season, and that's without Nash for most of the season, as well as spot games without Howard.

 

Secondly, yes, there are aspects of their offense that is of concern. Metta taking 11+ shots isn't ideal, although this season he has actually been average when it comes to efficiency. The turnovers are ridiculous, you're right. And the FT shooting, due to Howard, is also a concern. HOWEVER...they are 9th in FG%, 11% in 3pt%, #1 in FTA, and top 10 in offensive rebounding. They have a 30PPG scorer averaging career high in efficiency, Dwight is still giving 18PPG on near 60% shooting, and Nash, while not shooting as much as either of us would like, is his usual efficient self.

 

Bottom line is despite the injuries and surrounding the Big 4 with scrubs, they are still, statistically, the 6th best offense in the league. On that end of the floor, they have the talent to keep getting better, and if they make a few small moves to upgrade the bench, they will be in contention for most productive offense in the league.

 

Defensively is where the real issue is, because Pau continues to break down and certainly can't play PF anymore, Nash is at a massive physical disadvantage with this era of freakishly athletic PG's, Kobe gets lazy with his off-ball defense and has trouble on-ball when he has to go through screens, Metta doesn't have the lateral quickness to defend a lot of elite perimeter scorers, and the rest of the team besides Earl Clark is pretty much incapable of playing defense. To make matters far worse, they got one of the worst defensive coaches in the league that doesn't know how to cover his personel's weaknesses with schemes to maximize Howard's impact. In order to get anywhere near "good", or even "passable" on this side of the ball, they need to make serious changes...either a new coach and a few small additions, or some major trades that will completely change the roster outside of the Nash/Kobe/Dwight trio.