Bulls talking Boozer for Bargnani?

[Real Deal]

Nah...really?

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine

Just going online: ESPN sources say Bulls & Raptors have had exploratory talks on potential trade featuring Carlos Boozer & Andrea Bargnani

Rose needs help offensively, and Bargnani will spread the floor a bit, but while Boozer was a wreck on the defensive end, Bargs is a Gasol.

 

Hard for me to see Thibs wanting this.

[MJ23]

I actually like this trade. I mean, yes, C-Booz is a good player and he's having a
great year, but I'm not so sure if he can keep playing like this, come
playoff time. And as much as I like him as a player, I think the Front
Office should pull the trigger on this
one, mainly because this deal could turn out to be the Bulls' only
chance to get rid of Booz's huge salary, which, let's be honest, he
doesn't deserve, given his overall performance since he came from Utah.

 

 

Hard for me to see Thibs wanting this.

 

If there's anyone, who can turn Bargs into a,,,let's say "acceptable" defender, it's Thibs. If you don't believe me, look at Kyle Korver and Marco Belinelli.

[Dash]

Oh jeez Toronto being locked into Boozer's and Gay's contracts would be horrific. 

[ChosenOne]

Lol why would the bulls even consider this? This team is perfect just needs to stay healthy. Not to mention Thibs would bench brags every other game for not playing defense.

 

Edit: also Boozer is averaging 16-10 this year no reason to trade him when he is playing this well.

Edited February 8, 2013 by ChosenOne

[DunkinDerozan]

I don't know about his contract situation. Based purely on player for player I'm for it no doubt. If he's got a brutal long term contract then maybe not.

[Dash]

I don't know about his contract situation. Based purely on player for player I'm for it no doubt. If he's got a brutal long term contract then maybe not.

 

Per Shamsports

 

Carlos Boozer    

2012-2013: $15,000,000 

2013-2014: $15,300,000 

2014-2015: $16,800,000

[Dr. Feelgood]

It's being rumored that, if Boozer isn't traded, that Chicago might use their amnesty clause on him.

[Built Ford Tough]

Oh jeez Toronto being locked into Boozer's and Gay's contracts would be horrific. 

 

Would it really, though? They're right near the tax now and will be over it when DeRozan's extension kicks in next year. They need to amnesty Kleiza to just get under the tax for next year anyways.

 

Then, on top of that, they'll need to extend Lowry after next year as well. You're likely looking at a $10M+ deal there, pushing them even further into the tax.

 

Boozer makes about $9M more over the course of his contract than Bargnani does, but they both expire at the same time (summer of 2015). Assuming the Raptors are going to be a tax team anyways, they might as well go all in. They're owned by a multi-billion dollar corporation who just increased the Blue Jays' payroll by $120M+ so they clearly are willing to spend the money if they think it necessary or worthwhile (which, is another argument in itself).

 

Then, you are looking at a clean slate in the summer of 2015 when you have Gay, Fields, Boozer and Amir all expiring, which is close to $50M.

 

So long as the ownership has no problems paying the harsh luxury tax, the contracts aren't that big of a factor. They're hands are going to be tied anyways.

 

 

PS: According to what I read, the Bulls approached the Raptors and it is basically up to Toronto if they want to do this trade. The talk was Boozer/Robinson for Bargnani/Lucas. Toronto thinks they can get a better deal, though. Just based on what I've read.

[Dash]

Would it really, though? They're right near the tax now and will be over it when DeRozan's extension kicks in next year. They need to amnesty Kleiza to just get under the tax for next year anyways.

 

Then, on top of that, they'll need to extend Lowry after next year as well. You're likely looking at a $10M+ deal there, pushing them even further into the tax.

 

Boozer makes about $9M more over the course of his contract than Bargnani does, but they both expire at the same time (summer of 2015). Assuming the Raptors are going to be a tax team anyways, they might as well go all in. They're owned by a multi-billion dollar corporation who just increased the Blue Jays' payroll by $120M+ so they clearly are willing to spend the money if they think it necessary or worthwhile (which, is another argument in itself).

 

Then, you are looking at a clean slate in the summer of 2015 when you have Gay, Fields, Boozer and Amir all expiring, which is close to $50M.

 

So long as the ownership has no problems paying the harsh luxury tax, the contracts aren't that big of a factor. They're hands are going to be tied anyways.

 

 

PS: According to what I read, the Bulls approached the Raptors and it is basically up to Toronto if they want to do this trade. The talk was Boozer/Robinson for Bargnani/Lucas. Toronto thinks they can get a better deal, though. Just based on what I've read.

 

 

Regardless of Rudy Gay's contract locking them into financial instability already, committing $32-$33 million to Gay and Boozer would go down as one of the worst financial decisions I've seen in recent history. 

 

Next year Toronto will commit $60 million to Carlos Boozer, Rudy Gay, Landry Fields, Amir Johnson, DeMar DeRozan, and Linas Kleiza. The year after that factor in Lowry's extension and that number kicks to roughly $70 million committed to just 7 players. Factor in any future free agents or draft picks to fill out the other half of their roster and that will make the Raptors one of the most expensive rosters in the league. 

 

And to do what? Be a treadmill team and then blow it up in the 2015 free agency? It just doesn't make sense to me and no doubt this team will be cutting costs such as selling draft picks or attaching a pick to a contract, etc. They'd be completely stuck in no man's land until 2015. 

 

The only way I can see this spinned as a good move is that Toronto would make absolute zero use of any sort of cap flexbility anyways. To me that doesn't make it one, its just accepting defeat and building a treadmill team to reap $ from Toronto's large fanbase. 

 

A very high salary roster with no legitimate star, a coach having a pretty bad 2nd year, and the worst GM in the NBA. This is just such a dreadful mix. The sensible thing would have been to fire BC, amnesty Bargnani, let Calderon walk, tank for the 2014 draft with Jonas Valanciunas as a cornerstone and cap room on the side. 

 

The only silver lining here of course is that they could have a ton of cap room in 2015 and that if Jonas can quickly develop into a top 10 center in the next 2 years then they could probably be a 2nd round team considering how weak the East is these days. Barring any chemistry issues with a trio of Lowry/Gay/Boozer.

 

Edit: ended up rambling there. 

Edited February 8, 2013 by Dash

[DunkinDerozan]

Would it really, though? They're right near the tax now and will be over it when DeRozan's extension kicks in next year. They need to amnesty Kleiza to just get under the tax for next year anyways.

 

Then, on top of that, they'll need to extend Lowry after next year as well. You're likely looking at a $10M+ deal there, pushing them even further into the tax.

 

Boozer makes about $9M more over the course of his contract than Bargnani does, but they both expire at the same time (summer of 2015). Assuming the Raptors are going to be a tax team anyways, they might as well go all in. They're owned by a multi-billion dollar corporation who just increased the Blue Jays' payroll by $120M+ so they clearly are willing to spend the money if they think it necessary or worthwhile (which, is another argument in itself).

 

Then, you are looking at a clean slate in the summer of 2015 when you have Gay, Fields, Boozer and Amir all expiring, which is close to $50M.

 

So long as the ownership has no problems paying the harsh luxury tax, the contracts aren't that big of a factor. They're hands are going to be tied anyways.

 

 

PS: According to what I read, the Bulls approached the Raptors and it is basically up to Toronto if they want to do this trade. The talk was Boozer/Robinson for Bargnani/Lucas. Toronto thinks they can get a better deal, though. Just based on what I've read.

No way they get anything better than Boozer and Robinson for Barg and John [expletive]ing Lucas. Unless its a deal that has less money coming back our way or something.

[Built Ford Tough]

Regardless of Rudy Gay's contract locking them into financial instability already, committing $32-$33 million to Gay and Boozer would go down as one of the worst financial decisions I've seen in recent history. 

 

Next year Toronto will commit $60 million to Carlos Boozer, Rudy Gay, Landry Fields, Amir Johnson, DeMar DeRozan, and Linas Kleiza. The year after that factor in Lowry's extension and that number kicks to roughly $70 million committed to just 7 players. Factor in any future free agents or draft picks to fill out the other half of their roster and that will make the Raptors one of the most expensive rosters in the league. 

 

And to do what? Be a treadmill team and then blow it up in the 2015 free agency? It just doesn't make sense to me and no doubt this team will be cutting costs such as selling draft picks or attaching a pick to a contract, etc. They'd be completely stuck in no man's land until 2015. 

 

The only way I can see this spinned as a good move is that Toronto would make absolute zero use of any sort of cap flexbility anyways. To me that doesn't make it one, its just accepting defeat and building a treadmill team to reap $ from Toronto's large fanbase. 

 

A very high salary roster with no legitimate star, a coach having a pretty bad 2nd year, and the worst GM in the NBA. This is just such a dreadful mix. The sensible thing would have been to fire BC, amnesty Bargnani, let Calderon walk, tank for the 2014 draft with Jonas Valanciunas as a cornerstone and cap room on the side. 

 

The only silver lining here of course is that they could have a ton of cap room in 2015 and that if Jonas can quickly develop into a top 10 center in the next 2 years then they could probably be a 2nd round team considering how weak the East is these days. Barring any chemistry issues with a trio of Lowry/Gay/Boozer.

 

Edit: ended up rambling there. 

 

I should've clarified that I don't think it would be a good move. I don't like this potential trade. I'd rather just amnesty Bargnani in the offseason than flip him for an even worse contract.

 

I was just trying to play devil's advocate with that post by pointing out that so long as the Raptors ownership group was willing to pay the tax, which, in all likelyhood they wouldn't since they'd bee looking at a $21M tax bill in 2015, it really wouldn't hurt the Raptors from a playing standpoint too much. Because of the Gay trade, it doesn't matter if you have Boozer or Bargnani. Toronto's core is locked in until 2015. We are looking at a team that will have a rotation of Lowry, Gay, DeRozan, Fields, Amir, Valanciunas, Ross, Boozer/Bargnani and minimum deals to round out the roster.

 

Almost everything you said is correct. The only real thing I have a problem with is this part:

 

And to do what? Be a treadmill team and then blow it up in the 2015 free agency? It just doesn't make sense to me and no doubt this team will be cutting costs such as selling draft picks or attaching a pick to a contract, etc. They'd be completely stuck in no man's land until 2015. 

 

What exactly is Toronto now, if not a treadmill team? The Gay trade cemented that. This team, even if they keep Bargnani, is the very definition of a treadmill team already.

 

- No cap flexibility or real trade assets (assuming they keep firm on their stance of Valanciunas and Ross being untouchables) to improve the roster.

 

-Too good to get a realistic shot at an impact player through the draft.

 

- Too bad to make any noise in the playoffs.

 

They are basically the Scott Skiles Bucks of the past 5 years. Sure, they may sneak into the playoffs and even potentially give a team a scare if Gay/Lowry/DeRozan get going offensively. But at the end of the day they are what they are, which is a treadmill team. Adding Boozer doesn't change their treadmill status.

[Gooner]

It's being rumored that, if Boozer isn't traded, that Chicago might use their amnesty clause on him.

Chicago's not going to amnesty Boozer.