Built Ford Tough Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 I've taken a lot of criticism on my stance that he is just strictly a good player and not the type of guy that can eleveate his team to a championship. What say you?36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted June 21, 2021 Owner Report Share Posted June 21, 2021 Let me first ask you a question: can you list who you consider superstars in the NBA today? I wouldn't think your list would be that long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Built Ford Tough Posted June 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 Touché because you are right. I think the term superstar gets thrown around way too much. My definition of a superstar, whether rightly or wrongly, is a player who I think can lead a team to a championship as the guy. My list of superstars would probably be something like: LeBron. Giannis, KD, Curry, Durant, Kawhi, Jokic, Embiid, Doncic, Lillard. Then you have arguements for guys like Harden and Davis who are close, but I just don't think they can do it without an equally talented player alongside them. You could honestly throw Giannis in this group too and I wouldn't be upset. My problem is when people throw out the term superstar for guys like Jayson Tatum, Bradley Beal and those second tier type of stars. I guess the better question is do you think that Donovan Mitchell can lead a team to a championship as the best player on the team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted June 22, 2021 Owner Report Share Posted June 22, 2021 Well, Utah had a 59-60 win season this year (based on win %). If they were healthy, they were moving on and would be in the WCF right now. Kawhi and PG aren't beating a fully-healthy Jazz squad, especially after seeing how much they struggled with Dallas. Could they beat the Suns? Yes, and if they could, I would've guessed any team other than the Nets. Since the Nets proved me wrong and lost to the Bucks, I'd have to say that the Jazz had a shot...and that's with Mitchell as their best player. But who was the superstar on the 2004 Detroit Pistons? For me, a superstar is how you defined him. So yeah...LeBron, Giannis, KD, Curry, Kawhi, Jokic, Embiid, Doncic, Lillard...and I can't think of anyone else. We'll see how Booker plays out this next round and possibly the Finals before I add him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Built Ford Tough Posted June 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 I dont disagree with anything you said, but the one thing I am curious about is why you specifically mentioned Booker, What seperates him from what Mitchell has done the last two years or what Trae Young has done this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted June 26, 2021 Owner Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 On 6/25/2021 at 12:17 AM, Built Ford Tough said: I dont disagree with anything you said, but the one thing I am curious about is why you specifically mentioned Booker, What seperates him from what Mitchell has done the last two years or what Trae Young has done this year? If he gets to the Finals and wins a championship, he has to be a superstar. I know people say that the Suns are CP3's team, but they go as Booker does. And the difference between him and DM/TY is that Booker has a few years under his belt already (6 or 7?) and was an all-star snub two years before getting it the last two, so a 4-time AS in my books. So if he's an all-star player, not just a fluke or a flash in the pan, who leads his team to a championship, I'd have to consider him a superstar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Built Ford Tough Posted July 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 On 6/26/2021 at 3:21 PM, Real Deal said: If he gets to the Finals and wins a championship, he has to be a superstar. I know people say that the Suns are CP3's team, but they go as Booker does. And the difference between him and DM/TY is that Booker has a few years under his belt already (6 or 7?) and was an all-star snub two years before getting it the last two, so a 4-time AS in my books. So if he's an all-star player, not just a fluke or a flash in the pan, who leads his team to a championship, I'd have to consider him a superstar. Two questions for you then. 1. Did you ever consider anyone on the 04 Pistons as a superstar? I kind of view this Suns team as a similar team to that Pistons team where it was a group of great players (Booker, Ayton and CP3 vs Billups, Rip and the Wallaces') more so than just a superstar leading a team. 2. If Young leads the Hawks, who everyone thought was first round fodder to the finals (Giannis injury aside considering Young is banged up himself), is he a superstar? Even if he loses, nobody ever though they'd make any sort of run in the playoffs, especially once Hunter went down with injruy. I realize we are getting away from the Utah portion of this discussion but I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter and figure no point in making a new thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted July 1, 2021 Owner Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Built Ford Tough said: Two questions for you then. 1. Did you ever consider anyone on the 04 Pistons as a superstar? I kind of view this Suns team as a similar team to that Pistons team where it was a group of great players (Booker, Ayton and CP3 vs Billups, Rip and the Wallaces') more so than just a superstar leading a team. 2. If Young leads the Hawks, who everyone thought was first round fodder to the finals (Giannis injury aside considering Young is banged up himself), is he a superstar? Even if he loses, nobody ever though they'd make any sort of run in the playoffs, especially once Hunter went down with injruy. I realize we are getting away from the Utah portion of this discussion but I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter and figure no point in making a new thread. No, Detroit didn't have any superstar, IMO. Take any one of those players and swap them with, say, someone like Doncic or Lillard...Portland and Dallas would be a wreck. Billups' numbers didn't stand out; defensively, he was really good, but he's not taking a team to the promised land unless he's the Robin OR he's on one of the greatest defensive teams of all-time. Plus, Detroit had four all-stars, and of those four, three could give you 20+ on any given night. Take the current Suns roster + the 2004 Pistons, and my first two picks would be CP3 and Booker. I think those two are better players than anyone else from the two rosters. For what it's worth, though, I think the Lakers win the Finals that year if Malone wasn't hurt. Kobe got a lot of shit for that series, but he averaged the most assists on the team vs. Detroit, scored the most points, and was the ONLY person that played defense for the Lakers. Shaq didn't get the ball as much as he wanted because Detroit was cutting off the passing lanes, and interrupting entry passes into the triangle. Shaq couldn't get deep enough in the post to get the correct amount of spacing to make that pass possible, because Big Ben was the strongest defensive post in the league. Not to entirely change the subject...you triggered this, lol. Young is sort of an anomaly right now. I don't really want to call it a fluke, if they do get to the Finals, but honestly, what's the difference between him doing this in his second year vs. LeBron running through the East in 2007 (his fourth)? People talk about who Bron didn't have as a teammate, yet Trae Young isn't playing with a notable supporting cast, either. I don't know. You and I know Trae isn't going to end up a top 10 player of all-time, possibly? Now, give me two more years of the Hawks in the ECF's or further, and Young still posting 30/10's without much help outside of John Collins (who isn't an all-star), and then we'll talk. If Trae Young miraculously wins it all this season, he's a superstar in my books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted July 1, 2021 Owner Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 FYI - since Saturday, I think I've changed my mind a bit. The Suns are clearly CP3's team. Book still has a lot to learn as a leader and a player that just wants to personally end your team's season. CP3 showed just how bad he wants it tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Built Ford Tough Posted July 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2021 Yeah I get the same impression too. Booker is great but I don't look at this Suns team as his team. He is the future of the team for sure but there is no doubt in my mind that this is, and has been all year, Chris Paul's team. Booker obviously stepped up big time in Paul's absence against the Clipper, but lets be real too, the Clippers were missing Kawhi who means more to either team than anyone else does. Just so happens that a Paul-less Suns team led by Booker is better than a Kawhi-less Clipper team led by George. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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