AL East Or NL West

[EastCoastNiner]

Guys, just get over it. ECN's E-Penis is bigger than any of ours.

 

I don't support my "outlandish" claims because there's no need to. If you really believe that Josh Beckett and Jon Lester are better than Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain, good for you.

 

 

 

 

As you once said, "Well, you're wrong."

 

You really are one of the dumber people on this site.

 

Not once did you back up any claim that you made, and all you can do is try and mock people.

 

 

At least the others actually give reasons.

[Phightins]

I will give ECN credit and say that it is a lot closer than most of you are making it out to be (Lincecum/Cain vs. Beckett/Lester). I am still taking the Giants pair though.

[EastCoastNiner]

I will give ECN credit and say that it is a lot closer than most of you are making it out to be (Lincecum/Cain vs. Beckett/Lester). I am still taking the Giants pair though.

 

That's the thing.

 

I never said that I would take Josh Beckett and Jon Lester over Tim Lincincum and Matt Cain, but I'm trying to make the point that the two 1-2 punches aren't too much different in terms of how good they are, and there is an argument to be made that either is better.

 

 

The problem I have is when I look through the game logs of Tim Lincincum and Matt Cain, I don't see them pitching against as many good teams as Josh Beckett and Jon Lester do, and that makes a difference to me.

 

 

Also, even though Brandon Webb is out for the season, I think that next year Dan Haren and Bradnon Webb will be a deadly 2-1 punch.

Edited August 11, 2009 by EastCoastNiner

[fish7718]

Thank your Trojan for looking 5 times more retarded for looking at ESPN rankings like they mean anything. First of we all know the Mets are a much better team then their record shows. There are 4 teams in the NL East that when fully healthy can win the division. Despite all the injuries the east still sent more player to the all star game than both central and the west. Heres how I see it.

 

Phillies > Dodgers

Florida > San Francisco

Atlanta > Colorado

New York > Arizona

Washington < San Diego

[trutrojan8]

Thank your Trojan for looking 5 times more retarded for looking at ESPN rankings like they mean anything. First of we all know the Mets are a much better team then their record shows. There are 4 teams in the NL East that when fully healthy can win the division. Despite all the injuries the east still sent more player to the all star game than both central and the west. Heres how I see it.

 

Phillies > Dodgers

Florida > San Francisco

Atlanta > Colorado

New York > Arizona

Washington < San Diego

Would you like to compare win percentage? See how that works out. And how you see it doesn't mean [expletive]. Facts are facts, whether you like it or not.

[fly3rs18]

lincecum- 12-3 2.20 ERA 198 K's 1.04 whip .214 BAA

cain- 12-4 2.44 ERA 124 K's 1.17 whip .225 BAA

 

 

beckett- 13-4 3.12 ERA 139 K's 1.13 whip .231 BAA

lester- 9-7 3.67 ERA 165 K's 1.27 whip .249 BAA

 

 

 

beckett and lester is a great 1-2 punch, but i take lincecum cain EVERY SINGLE TIME. lincecum > cain and beckett > lester

 

 

you are gonna say how beckett pitches in the playoffs, and that is great, but you have no idea how lincecum and cain are going to do in the playoffs. during the season lincecum and cain are far superior and you have no reason to believe that they aren't going to be just as good in the playoffs. beckett and lester are great pitchers, but they are really no match for lincecum and cain, who will be cy young candidates every year for the next 5-10 years

[fly3rs18]

Would you like to compare win percentage? See how that works out. And how you see it doesn't mean [expletive]. Facts are facts, whether you like it or not.

 

 

wow you are dumb. i am a phillies fan and even i will say that the mets are a much much much better team then how they are playing now. it is insane how many injuries they have. they are pretty have a AAA starting lineup. i hate the mets, but when they are healthy they are one of the top teams in the league easily

 

 

but they would still choke anyway

[trutrojan8]

wow you are dumb. i am a phillies fan and even i will say that the mets are a much much much better team then how they are playing now. it is insane how many injuries they have. they are pretty have a AAA starting lineup. i hate the mets, but when they are healthy they are one of the top teams in the league easily

 

 

but they would still choke anyway

But the thing is, they haven't won. You can't justify something based on what you think they'll do, when there's a fact of what they already have done this far in the season.

 

You can say the Mets are bad, because they are. But you can't say the Mets are good because of injuries. Because you never know.

[Phightins]

But the thing is, they haven't won. You can't justify something based on what you think they'll do, when there's a fact of what they already have done this far in the season.

 

You can say the Mets are bad, because they are. But you can't say the Mets are good because of injuries. Because you never know.

 

Look, I am the biggest Mets hater of all time (or so it seems), but they are a damn good team when healthy, you cannot deny that.

[fly3rs18]

But the thing is, they haven't won. You can't justify something based on what you think they'll do, when there's a fact of what they already have done this far in the season.

 

You can say the Mets are bad, because they are. But you can't say the Mets are good because of injuries. Because you never know.

 

 

you are kinda right. we have no idea how they would perform even if they were healthy. they could could be just as bad as they are now, we really have no idea. but what we do know is that when healthy, they have one of the most talented teams and have more then enough talent to be one of the best teams in the league

[EastCoastNiner]

lincecum- 12-3 2.20 ERA 198 K's 1.04 whip .214 BAA

cain- 12-4 2.44 ERA 124 K's 1.17 whip .225 BAA

 

 

beckett- 13-4 3.12 ERA 139 K's 1.13 whip .231 BAA

lester- 9-7 3.67 ERA 165 K's 1.27 whip .249 BAA

 

 

 

beckett and lester is a great 1-2 punch, but i take lincecum cain EVERY SINGLE TIME. lincecum > cain and beckett > lester

 

 

you are gonna say how beckett pitches in the playoffs, and that is great, but you have no idea how lincecum and cain are going to do in the playoffs. during the season lincecum and cain are far superior and you have no reason to believe that they aren't going to be just as good in the playoffs. beckett and lester are great pitchers, but they are really no match for lincecum and cain, who will be cy young candidates every year for the next 5-10 years

 

Look, I know I am in the minority thinking that it is closer than people make it look, and that maybe Josh Beckett and Jon Lester are a better 1-2 punch, but it is hard for them to have better stats when they play in the AL East.

 

I'm not trying to penalize Tim Lincincum and Matt Cain because they are in the NL West and haven't pitched against many good teams, but it's more of Josh Beckett and Jon Lester pitching in the AL East, which I think most people will say is the best division, or one of the best.

 

 

I understand that the stats at first glance favor Tim Lincincum and Matt Cain, but they don't have to pitch against AL line-ups every day with a DH, and just flat out better line-ups.

 

 

And, take it for what it's worth, but John Kruk and some of the others on ESPN believe that Jon Lester is currently and will be the best left-handed pitcher in the AL.

[Phightins]

lincecum- 12-3 2.20 ERA 198 K's 1.04 whip .214 BAA

cain- 12-4 2.44 ERA 124 K's 1.17 whip .225 BAA

 

 

beckett- 13-4 3.12 ERA 139 K's 1.13 whip .231 BAA

lester- 9-7 3.67 ERA 165 K's 1.27 whip .249 BAA

 

 

 

beckett and lester is a great 1-2 punch, but i take lincecum cain EVERY SINGLE TIME. lincecum > cain and beckett > lester

 

 

you are gonna say how beckett pitches in the playoffs, and that is great, but you have no idea how lincecum and cain are going to do in the playoffs. during the season lincecum and cain are far superior and you have no reason to believe that they aren't going to be just as good in the playoffs. beckett and lester are great pitchers, but they are really no match for lincecum and cain, who will be cy young candidates every year for the next 5-10 years

 

Well, you do need to take those numbers with a grain of salt. The American League is much stronger offensively than the National League, and there are 9 batters compared to 8, etc etc etc. Also, Fenway is not exactly a pitchers park, and AT&T is in contention for being the most pitcher friendly stadium in baseball.

 

But I am with you, I still take Lincecum and Cain every time, but with respect to ECN, you do need to consider the other factors.

[fish7718]

Look, I know I am in the minority thinking that it is closer than people make it look, and that maybe Josh Beckett and Jon Lester are a better 1-2 punch, but it is hard for them to have better stats when they play in the AL East.

 

I'm not trying to penalize Tim Lincincum and Matt Cain because they are in the NL West and haven't pitched against many good teams, but it's more of Josh Beckett and Jon Lester pitching in the AL East, which I think most people will say is the best division, or one of the best.

 

 

I understand that the stats at first glance favor Tim Lincincum and Matt Cain, but they don't have to pitch against AL line-ups every day with a DH, and just flat out better line-ups.

 

 

And, take it for what it's worth, but John Kruk and some of the others on ESPN believe that Jon Lester is currently and will be the best left-handed pitcher in the AL.

I actually agree with ECN to a point. I agree that the stats are very misleading and if you want another stat Tim Lincecum career vs AL (Toronto, Oakland, KC, LAA, DET) 23 earned runs in 53 innings pitched which comes to a 3.91 era. It's not a large sample size and I'm not try discredit anything Lincecum has done, just saying its very difficult to compare a pitcher in the best pitchers ball park in MLB in the worst hitting division in MLB to a pitcher in one of the best hitters park in MLB in THE toughest hitting divison in MLB. It's really apples and oranges. I'd take Cain and Lincecum though (but not by far). BTW just for fun Cain career AL (Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, KC, LAA, NYY, Texas, Oakland Seattle) 35 earned runs in in 100 innings which factors out to be a very respectible 3.15 however he has about 43 innings pitched against Oakland. Both small sample size for each pitcher, just leveling the playing field for ECN.

 

BTW Trojan just because the Mets aren't winning you cant deny they are good. The talent is there however the injuries are too. If your not willing to admit that they aren't good then you are just a fool.

[EastCoastNiner]

I actually agree with ECN to a point. I agree that the stats are very misleading and if you want another stat Tim Lincecum career vs AL (Toronto, Oakland, KC, LAA, DET) 23 earned runs in 53 innings pitched which comes to a 3.91 era. It's not a large sample size and I'm not try discredit anything Lincecum has done, just saying its very difficult to compare a pitcher in the best pitchers ball park in MLB in the worst hitting division in MLB to a pitcher in one of the best hitters park in MLB in THE toughest hitting divison in MLB. It's really apples and oranges. I'd take Cain and Lincecum though (but not by far). BTW just for fun Cain career AL (Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, KC, LAA, NYY, Texas, Oakland Seattle) 35 earned runs in in 100 innings which factors out to be a very respectible 3.15 however he has about 43 innings pitched against Oakland. Both small sample size for each pitcher, just leveling the playing field for ECN.

 

BTW Trojan just because the Mets aren't winning you cant deny they are good. The talent is there however the injuries are too. If your not willing to admit that they aren't good then you are just a fool.

 

That's all I'm trying to say.

 

I'm not trying to say that Tim Lincincum and Matt Cain aren't very good pitchers, Josh Beckett and Jon Lester aren't really on an even playing field.

[Legacy]

I would love to see a Giants/Red Sox world series.

[The Artesticle]

Yo ECN,

 

you got LINECUM IN YOUR FACE!!!!

[EastCoastNiner]

Yo ECN,

 

you got LINECUM IN YOUR FACE!!!!

 

You better be quiet or I'll post the picture of you in your kitchen.

[The Artesticle]

You better be quiet or I'll post the picture of you in your kitchen.

what color shirt am I wearing and what am I holding in my left hand

[trutrojan8]

I would guess no shirt, and your boy friend's penis?

 

lulz i'm so funny

[EastCoastNiner]

what color shirt am I wearing and what am I holding in my left hand

 

You are wearing a black collared shirt. .

[The Artesticle]

ok post it.

[trutrojan8]

Looks like ECN was bluffing.

[fly3rs18]

wow thread went into the [expletive]ter real quick

[Legacy]

I'll post it guys.

[trutrojan8]

Have ECN post it he's bluffing.