Teletopez Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) Who is the best manager in the game today? Mike Scioscia? Terry Francona? Discuss. And while we're at it, which general manager has done the most for their team? Edited August 18, 2009 by Waldo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) Well, you guys can say I'm being a "homer" if you want, but I'll take Terry Francona. He's been the manager for two World Series Championships, and has managed this team wonderfully. How many managers in the MLB can find a way to keep their players happy when they may have to sit out some games because of trades, and how many managers can manage a line-up like he does when a team has injuries? Having a [expletive]ty David Ortiz, and being able to manage the team like he has with a very popular player struggling like David Ortiz, there are very few, if any managers that can manage that situation as well as he has. Not to mention he has had to deal with injuries to Dice-K and Tim Wakefield for a long time, and has had to shuffle the line-up a decent amount because of injuries to J.D. Drew and Mike Lowell. Edited August 18, 2009 by EastCoastNiner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trutrojan8 Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 It's not like David Ortiz was the only person on the Red Sox though. If he was their only star player and he went down, it would've looked better but the Red Sox just went out and bought a bat to help when Ortiz was struggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 It's not like David Ortiz was the only person on the Red Sox though. If he was their only star player and he went down, it would've looked better but the Red Sox just went out and bought a bat to help when Ortiz was struggling. If you are talking about Victor Martinez, then that's not really true. David Ortiz has been sucking all season, and Victor Martinez hasn't really replaced David Ortiz. Terry Francona has also managed the young pitchers on the Boston Red Sox as well, which is not an easy task at all. However, there are legitimate cases for other GM's, but there aren't many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 the best manager cant be from the AL. NL managers have to do so much more with pinch hitting for pitchers and all the decisions along with it. the only way i would give it to an AL manager is if he had success in the NL also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 but for GM, ruben amaro jr has a shot. he hasnt been a GM long enough for me to say that he is the best in the league, but i love his aggressive style and how he handled the trade deadline trades. he got what he wanted and gave up only what he wanted to. plus it doesnt hurt to be an assistant behind pat gillick for a couple years. gillick was an amazing GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trutrojan8 Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 the best manager cant be from the AL. NL managers have to do so much more with pinch hitting for pitchers and all the decisions along with it. the only way i would give it to an AL manager is if he had success in the NL alsoJoe Torre? He seems like the best fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VicNabb Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Well, you guys can say I'm being a "homer" if you want, but I'll take Terry Francona. lol surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teletopez Posted August 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 lol surprise.Well under Francona, Boston came back from 3-0 and 3-1 deficits in the 2004 and 2007 ALCS's. That itself says a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 I think if anything, Terry Francona is the perfect example of "a manager is only as good as his players". When he was in Philadelphia he was an "idiot" and now in Boston he is a "genius". Well, he just so happens to be blessed with an awesome roster in Boston and he had maybe the worst roster in baseball when he was in Philadelphia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 I think if anything, Terry Francona is the perfect example of "a manager is only as good as his players". When he was in Philadelphia he was an "idiot" and now in Boston he is a "genius". Well, he just so happens to be blessed with an awesome roster in Boston and he had maybe the worst roster in baseball when he was in Philadelphia. - David Ortiz- Nick Green- Jed Lowrie- Julio Lugo- Jason Varitek- J.D. Drew(I still believe in him) - Junichi Tazawa- John Smoltz- Clay Bucholtz- Brad Penny The 7-9 spots in the line-up are pretty much automatic outs, and David Ortiz is pretty damn bad right now, so the starting line-up isn't nearly as good as people think, and I was one of the people that thought this team would have an awesome line-up. Terry Francona has had to deal with pitching John Smoltz, dealing with injuries to Tim Wakefield(All-Star) and Dice-K(7th best ERA last year), and having to use young pitchers with minimal experience, and the team is still in the playoff race. Obviously, if a team isn't good, the manager won't look good either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Dusty Baker. I still believe. lol Sabean has done wonders, did them with the Roid Nut Busters and is now doing it with farm system pitching. I'd say Scoscia (I know I spelled that wrong, but whatever) gets the edge this season from me, but it's a yearly change. Beinfest and Gonzalez deserve mention with what they've made the Marlins into. (I had to look up there names, I can't lie, but that team does so much with so little every year it seems like. Playoffs or not, they've really done well for their buck) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) - David Ortiz- Nick Green- Jed Lowrie- Julio Lugo- Jason Varitek- J.D. Drew(I still believe in him) - Junichi Tazawa- John Smoltz- Clay Bucholtz- Brad Penny The 7-9 spots in the line-up are pretty much automatic outs, and David Ortiz is pretty damn bad right now, so the starting line-up isn't nearly as good as people think, and I was one of the people that thought this team would have an awesome line-up. Terry Francona has had to deal with pitching John Smoltz, dealing with injuries to Tim Wakefield(All-Star) and Dice-K(7th best ERA last year), and having to use young pitchers with minimal experience, and the team is still in the playoff race. Obviously, if a team isn't good, the manager won't look good either. Right, and need I run down the horrendous Phillies roster of the late 90's? Francona is only great because of his players, period. Pretty much the same goes for every other manager who has been called great at some point, especially in the American League where there is so much less in-game strategy. Edited August 19, 2009 by Phightins09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 who cares if ortiz is bad right now or if they have a few injuries. that happens to every single team. but francona has had consistently good teams over the past few years. any manager who has the teams that he has had will seem like a great manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish7718 Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Best manager - Joe Torre followed closely by Bobby Cox Best GM - Andrew Friedman - finally made a winner out of those terrible rays and now that franchise is LOADED with talent. He is followed closely by Jon Daniels who has turned around the Texas Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Mike Sciosia. Talk about doing more with less, wow. Won a world series, multiple division titles, etc. Not one guy on his world series team that you could say "hes a hall of fame player for sure." Francona on the other hand, has had Manny, juiced Ortiz, Beckett. Torre had a hall of fame roster with the Yankees. Manuel has an all star lineup. Sciosia had one all star (1 per team is required anyway) on his team when he won a title. Vladimir Guerrero was the only all star on the Angels when we won all those division titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Right, and need I run down the horrendous Phillies roster of the late 90's? Francona is only great because of his players, period. Pretty much the same goes for every other manager who has been called great at some point, especially in the American League where there is so much less in-game strategy. Oh, no, I have to put my best hitter in when I need a pinch hitter! Oh, the difficulties of being in the NL! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Oh, no, I have to put my best hitter in when I need a pinch hitter! Oh, the difficulties of being in the NL! . You really think it's that simple? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trutrojan8 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 You really think it's that simple? Really?It seems like it'd be a lot easier to write in Ortiz as a DH, then to decide between Smith/Spilborghs/Barmes/Atkins in a pinch hit situation in the ninth inning. But maybe it's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Even if it isnt simple, its not hard. It just means you have to think a little bit longer. Ill use some familiar logic here. Take the playoffs argument for example, how you cant penalize a guy for not pitching in the playoffs, then reward someone like Beckett or Lackey for pitching well in the playoffs. Same thing here, cant determine a National League manager is better just because he has to decide on pinch hitters. Thats probably the least important factor in being a good manager, anyone can do it. To use a familiar quote "you have to argue based on what you know." Dont know how a pitcher will pitch in the playoffs, so cant use that in an argument. Dont know if a manager will succeed in the NL if hes never been there, cant use that in an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) Even if it isnt simple, its not hard. It just means you have to think a little bit longer. Ill use some familiar logic here. Take the playoffs argument for example, how you cant penalize a guy for not pitching in the playoffs, then reward someone like Beckett or Lackey for pitching well in the playoffs. Same thing here, cant determine a National League manager is better just because he has to decide on pinch hitters. Thats probably the least important factor in being a good manager, anyone can do it. To use a familiar quote "you have to argue based on what you know." Dont know how a pitcher will pitch in the playoffs, so cant use that in an argument. Dont know if a manager will succeed in the NL if hes never been there, cant use that in an argument. I am not taking away anything from Terry Francona (although he has managed in the National League and did a horrible job at it, granted his teams sucked) or any other AL manager, not sure where you got that from. I am rebutting ECN's point that managing in the NL is not that much harder than managing in the AL. There is far more in game strategy/thinking that goes into managing in the National League, nobody can argue this. Edited August 25, 2009 by Phightins09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Oh ok. Gotchya. My personal choice for best manager, Mike Sciosia would be great in the NL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Oh ok. Gotchya. My personal choice for best manager, Mike Sciosia would be great in the NL. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I am not taking away anything from Terry Francona (although he has managed in the National League and did a horrible job at it, granted his teams sucked) or any other AL manager, not sure where you got that from. I am rebutting ECN's point that managing in the NL is not that much harder than managing in the AL. There is far more in game strategy/thinking that goes into managing in the National League, nobody can argue this. It doesn't matter to me if the best manager is from the AL or NL, but what you're saying is just flat out false. Besides having a pitcher hitting in the NL, there is really no difference in strategy between the AL and NL in terms of "managing" a game. It's not that hard to pinch hit someone for a pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 It doesn't matter to me if the best manager is from the AL or NL, but what you're saying is just flat out false. Besides having a pitcher hitting in the NL, there is really no difference in strategy between the AL and NL in terms of "managing" a game. It's not that hard to pinch hit someone for a pitcher. its obviously not rocket science, but it still way harder then setting ortiz as DH every game. and for NL it changes how you long can keep pitchers in also because you have to decide if you want to let the pitcher hit or pinch hit and lose him for the game. it affects how long you can leave your pitchers in. and there are other complications to it like when you start to run out of guys in a long game and other situations like that. you are just trying to convince people that the leagues are the same so you can say francona is the best manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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