Best Manager and GM

[trutrojan8]

Look at yesterday's game. In the NL, Lincecum pinch runs because the Giant's bench is completely used up by the 11th inning. In the AL, they have 2 or 3 more bench players in that situation, since you don't have to use pinch hitters nearly as often.

[Phightins]

It doesn't matter to me if the best manager is from the AL or NL, but what you're saying is just flat out false.

 

Besides having a pitcher hitting in the NL, there is really no difference in strategy between the AL and NL in terms of "managing" a game.

 

It's not that hard to pinch hit someone for a pitcher.

 

Hmm...I am trying to think of a way to put this that won't sound completely rude, but I am coming up empty so I will just be flat out honest. You are clueless.

 

I will start by saying that I think a good manager in the American League can be a good manager in the National League. If a guy has been around baseball long enough they can pick up on it. But you sound like a complete dunce by saying there is no difference in strategy. Have you ever watched a National League game before? I am doubting that.

 

I will offer a few examples.

 

In the American League, if you want to make a pitching change, there are only three issues that need to be considered.

1. Is the current pitcher gassed/getting rocked?

2. Is there a relief pitcher warmed up in the bullpen?

3. Is it late in the game and do you want to hand the game over to a closer/setup guy/specialist of some sort?

 

If the answer to any of these questions is "yes", the manager can trot out to the mound and make the change. In the National League, you must consider the implications it has on your lineup. Say it is the 5th inning and your starting pitcher is on the mound but in a lot of trouble. There is 1 out, but the guy is getting shelled. The pitchers spot is due up 2nd in the next half inning. The manager must weigh in his head "do I go get this guy now and waste a relief pitcher for just 2 outs?", or "do I go get this guy now and let the incoming relief pitcher bat in the next inning to save the bench?", or "do I make a double switch here and take out one of my starters this early in the game", or simply "do I let the current pitcher finish the inning, even if it means a couple additional runs being scored?".

 

Another example of strategy prevalent only in NL baseball. Say you are the home team. It is the bottom of the fifth inning, bases loaded, 2 outs, pitchers spot coming up. Your starting pitcher has been very good thus far and could easily throw another inning or two, but you are facing the other team's ace and who knows if another opportunity like this will come up. Do you let the pitcher bat and get the additional innings out of him, all while letting a golden opportunity for some runs go to waste? Or do you go to your bench, and leave the game in the hands of the bullpen at this relatively early stage of the game? In the American League, if you have this situation, you can go to the bench without it having any implications on the pitching staff. Or better yet, you could be lucky enough to have a lineup like the Red Sox, Yankees, or Angels, where any batter in the lineup could hit 1-5 in almost any NL lineup, and thus such a situation will never arise.

 

Another example. Say your team is in the field, and there are 2 runners on base and 2 outs with the other team's 8-hole batter up. Do you intentionally walk the 8-hole hitter and more than likely get out of the inning? Do you pitch around him and hope he gets himself out, with the worst-case-scenario of him walking and then facing the pitcher? Or do you go after him and try to get him out so the pitchers spot leads off the next inning?

 

These are all the basic things that National League managers need to ponder during the course of a game that American League managers do not even need to think about. And this only scratches the surface. So, do you still stand by your statement that the strategy is the same for both leagues? Actually, don't even answer that, I know you will say yes and spew some bull[expletive] all while refusing to admit that you were wrong.

[bigdog17k]

No luv for Ozzie and KW?

[EastCoastNiner]

Hmm...I am trying to think of a way to put this that won't sound completely rude, but I am coming up empty so I will just be flat out honest. You are clueless.

 

I will start by saying that I think a good manager in the American League can be a good manager in the National League. If a guy has been around baseball long enough they can pick up on it. But you sound like a complete dunce by saying there is no difference in strategy. Have you ever watched a National League game before? I am doubting that.

 

I will offer a few examples.

 

In the American League, if you want to make a pitching change, there are only three issues that need to be considered.

1. Is the current pitcher gassed/getting rocked?

2. Is there a relief pitcher warmed up in the bullpen?

3. Is it late in the game and do you want to hand the game over to a closer/setup guy/specialist of some sort?

 

If the answer to any of these questions is "yes", the manager can trot out to the mound and make the change. In the National League, you must consider the implications it has on your lineup. Say it is the 5th inning and your starting pitcher is on the mound but in a lot of trouble. There is 1 out, but the guy is getting shelled. The pitchers spot is due up 2nd in the next half inning. The manager must weigh in his head "do I go get this guy now and waste a relief pitcher for just 2 outs?", or "do I go get this guy now and let the incoming relief pitcher bat in the next inning to save the bench?", or "do I make a double switch here and take out one of my starters this early in the game", or simply "do I let the current pitcher finish the inning, even if it means a couple additional runs being scored?".

 

Another example of strategy prevalent only in NL baseball. Say you are the home team. It is the bottom of the fifth inning, bases loaded, 2 outs, pitchers spot coming up. Your starting pitcher has been very good thus far and could easily throw another inning or two, but you are facing the other team's ace and who knows if another opportunity like this will come up. Do you let the pitcher bat and get the additional innings out of him, all while letting a golden opportunity for some runs go to waste? Or do you go to your bench, and leave the game in the hands of the bullpen at this relatively early stage of the game? In the American League, if you have this situation, you can go to the bench without it having any implications on the pitching staff. Or better yet, you could be lucky enough to have a lineup like the Red Sox, Yankees, or Angels, where any batter in the lineup could hit 1-5 in almost any NL lineup, and thus such a situation will never arise.

 

Another example. Say your team is in the field, and there are 2 runners on base and 2 outs with the other team's 8-hole batter up. Do you intentionally walk the 8-hole hitter and more than likely get out of the inning? Do you pitch around him and hope he gets himself out, with the worst-case-scenario of him walking and then facing the pitcher? Or do you go after him and try to get him out so the pitchers spot leads off the next inning?

 

These are all the basic things that National League managers need to ponder during the course of a game that American League managers do not even need to think about. And this only scratches the surface. So, do you still stand by your statement that the strategy is the same for both leagues? Actually, don't even answer that, I know you will say yes and spew some bull[expletive] all while refusing to admit that you were wrong.

 

I'll respond to this more later, but I believe one of the best managers in the NL, Tony Larussa has said himself that it is harder to manage in the AL.

[Phightins]

I'll respond to this more later, but I believe one of the best managers in the NL, Tony Larussa has said himself that it is harder to manage in the AL.

 

Tony LaRussa has said a lot of things that make no sense, this being one of them.

 

Well, it is "hard" to manage a Major League Baseball team, regardless of which league. There are so many things that go into it. But you cannot deny that strategically, there is so much more that a National League manager has to do in a game, or at least consider doing. There is absolutely no arguing this.

[fly3rs18]

i cant think of a single reason why it would be harder to manage an AL team. as phightins said, neither are easy, but there is no reason why it could be worse for an AL manager

[EastCoastNiner]

i cant think of a single reason why it would be harder to manage an AL team. as phightins said, neither are easy, but there is no reason why it could be worse for an AL manager

 

You're right, it's not like the AL has to determine which players will be in the line-up because of a left-handed or right-handed pitcher in the game more than the NL has to, and the managers don't have to worry about the depth of their bull-pen considering the talent discrepancy between the AL and NL line-ups.

 

 

You NL fans are soley relying on the whole pitcher for a hitter part of the game, and it's really not as difficult as you guys are trying to make it sound.

[Phightins]

You're right, it's not like the AL has to determine which players will be in the line-up because of a left-handed or right-handed pitcher in the game more than the NL has to, and the managers don't have to worry about the depth of their bull-pen considering the talent discrepancy between the AL and NL line-ups.

 

 

You NL fans are soley relying on the whole pitcher for a hitter part of the game, and it's really not as difficult as you guys are trying to make it sound.

 

Did you read my post? Doubt it.

[trutrojan8]

You're right, it's not like the AL has to determine which players will be in the line-up because of a left-handed or right-handed pitcher in the game more than the NL has to, and the managers don't have to worry about the depth of their bull-pen considering the talent discrepancy between the AL and NL line-ups.

 

 

You NL fans are soley relying on the whole pitcher for a hitter part of the game, and it's really not as difficult as you guys are trying to make it sound.

Like I said earlier. Pretend you're a manager. You can either go with David Ortiz at the DH, or 1B. Assuming you choose the DH, your job setting the DH is done.

 

Now try to go into yesterday's game. Both benches were done in the 14th inning, pitchers were pinch running, injured players were playing, etc. Seems like a lot easier to write Ortiz in as the DH and be done with, then to risk a greater injury to Carlos Gonzalez by letting him bat with stiches in his hand.

[EastCoastNiner]

Did you read my post? Doubt it.

 

I read the entire post, and I don't disagree that those are things that NL managers have to deal with, but the decisions aren't as difficult as you want to make it seem.

 

 

Anyways, I'd take Mike Scoscia over most, if not all NL managers, and almost any manager in the MLB.

[Phightins]

I read the entire post, and I don't disagree that those are things that NL managers have to deal with, but the decisions aren't as difficult as you want to make it seem.

 

 

Anyways, I'd take Mike Scoscia over most, if not all NL managers, and almost any manager in the MLB.

 

Well, I was not attempting to make it sound difficult. I was pointing out that the strategic element that exists in the NL hardly exists in the AL.

[EastCoastNiner]

Like I said earlier. Pretend you're a manager. You can either go with David Ortiz at the DH, or 1B. Assuming you choose the DH, your job setting the DH is done.

 

Now try to go into yesterday's game. Both benches were done in the 14th inning, pitchers were pinch running, injured players were playing, etc. Seems like a lot easier to write Ortiz in as the DH and be done with, then to risk a greater injury to Carlos Gonzalez by letting him bat with stiches in his hand.

 

Clay Bucholtz was a pinch-runner last week, so there goes that point.

 

 

And, you're whole players being injured part, get out of here with that garbage because every team has players that are playing below 100% health.

[trutrojan8]

Clay Bucholtz was a pinch-runner last week, so there goes that point.

 

 

And, you're whole players being injured part, get out of here with that garbage because every team has players that are playing below 100% health.

So are you trying to argue that it's easier to put an injured player into the game as a pinch hitter in extra innings, than to write in fat [expletive] David Ortiz's name on the lineup card as DH because he couldn't physically play any field position?

[EastCoastNiner]

So are you trying to argue that it's easier to put an injured player into the game as a pinch hitter in extra innings, than to write in fat [expletive] David Ortiz's name on the lineup card as DH because he couldn't physically play any field position?

 

That made absolutely ZERO sense.

 

Whoever is the starting pitcher for an NL team is automatically in the line-up, so they are there...automatically.

 

David Ortiz is not automatically in the line-up, and someone else may be used as the DH depending on the opposing pitcher, so once again, you make no sense with your comment about easily writing David Ortiz's name on the line-up card when that is not guaranteed, unlike an NL pitcher being in the line-up. .

[trutrojan8]

That's weird because Ortiz has played in 115 games, and Boston is 72-53. It seems like it's somewhat automatic that he's in the lineup.

Edited August 26, 2009 by trutrojan8

[fly3rs18]

That made absolutely ZERO sense.

 

Whoever is the starting pitcher for an NL team is automatically in the line-up, so they are there...automatically.

 

David Ortiz is not automatically in the line-up, and someone else may be used as the DH depending on the opposing pitcher, so once again, you make no sense with your comment about easily writing David Ortiz's name on the line-up card when that is not guaranteed, unlike an NL pitcher being in the line-up. .

 

 

lemme get this straight, you think that putting ortiz at DH every game is just as hard as what NL managers have to do?

 

 

have you ever considered going to a doctor about any learning or comprehension issues?

Edited August 26, 2009 by fly3rs18

[EastCoastNiner]

lemme get this straight, you think that putting ortiz at DH every game is just as hard as what NL managers have to do?

 

 

have you ever considered going to a doctor about any learning or comprehension issues?

 

Do all Philadelphia fans have comprehension problems?

 

I'm asking because I know your fellow Philadelphia fan has a problem with that sometimes.

 

 

 

He said that David Ortiz is penciled in every game, which is not true, and that it's harder to pencil in an NL pinch runner in extra innings than it is to pencil in David Ortiz, which makes no sense.

 

 

It must be the water.

[Phightins]

Do all Philadelphia fans have comprehension problems?

 

I'm asking because I know your fellow Philadelphia fan has a problem with that sometimes.

 

 

 

He said that David Ortiz is penciled in every game, which is not true, and that it's harder to pencil in an NL pinch runner in extra innings than it is to pencil in David Ortiz, which makes no sense.

 

 

It must be the water.

 

LMAO. I think you just proved his point!!!

 

TruTrojan was the one talking to you about Ortiz and he happens to be a Colorado fan. You just owned yourself, none of us had to do the honors. Thanks for saving us the trouble.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Phightins09

[trutrojan8]

lmao wow ECN. Nice.