Ben Gordon's Departure

[Gooner]

So I have to assume you're British

No.

 

I'm also assuming you're going to classify Gordon as a superstar? Just curious.

No.

 

If you're wanting to talk about complete bodies of work, then don't bother talking about Ben Gordon until he's retired.

The body of work I was talking about was career to date. You're comparing Gordon to the likes of Murphy and Williams who happened to have one outstanding 3pt shooting year.

 

Using your argument, Ben Gordon is a better three-point shooter than Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Larry Bird and Craig Hodges, as long as we're taking their first five seasons...

Yeah that would be true. We can't exactly look at Gordon's sixth season because, well, he hasn't played it yet. IMO, he will eventually be up there with Allen and Miller, who happen to be the two best shooters of all time. And he's clearly better than Bird and Hodges, just using your own metric. You're simply penalizing Gordon because he's only played for 5 years. Who's to say he won't follow the same trend as Miller and Allen and get better as his career progresses?

 

but haha, that's definitely not true, and will prove to be false once Gordon approaches his prime a bit more, working on other aspects as he draws away from spot-up threes he was landing with Rose, Hinrich and Deng passing him the ball.

 

This will show even more once he attempts 500+ in a season, also.

That's simply your opinion. IMO, I disagree.

 

I've stated a few times that Ben Gordon is one of my favorite players, but there's no chance I'm going to label him "great" at anything. There's no reason to associate greatness to a five-year player, not even LeBron James.

Hey, if that's the way you look at things, fine. I can look at Lebron James and see that he's a great player regardless of the fact that he's only been in the league for 6 years. And I can look at Ben Gordon and see that he's a great 3pt shooter.

[Real Deal]

Haha, no, Ben Gordon is not a better three-point shooter than Larry Bird or Craig Hodges.

 

I'll let someone else in on this, if they want. It's useless for me to even debate that above. When Gordon gets doubled constantly, and he still nails threes from the corner, with two guys in his jersey...he'll be better than Larry Legend. And there's a huge reason why Hodges nailed 48% or better from downtown in two seasons, and set the three-point contest record.

 

The thing about Gordon is that he knows when to draw back his shot. When he's cold, he won't shoot threes. When he catches fire, he doesn't pass, and he jacks up the shots until he bricks. 30 points one game, 10 the next. I'm not sold on an extremely streaky shooter being considered one of the greatest three-point shooters in the history of the game. Maybe in the league today, but I'm not sticking him up there with guys that would drop 50 on you at any given time if you didn't defend them from beyond the arc.

[Gooner]

What the hell makes Larry Bird such a great 3pt shooter? He didn't shoot many nor did he make them at a high percentage. It simply wasn't a big part of his game.

 

You act like Ben Gordon is a spot up shooter when in fact he was the number one option on all his teams. He often saw double teams. You think people cared about guarding the likes of Chris Duhon, Tyrus Thomas, Ben Wallace, Tyson Chandler, etc? You talk about Gordon's consistency and then bring up a guy like Craig Hodges. Hodges played for the Bulls. He was a spot up shooter and mostly shot open shots. Craig Hodges is the definition of an inconsistent shooter. Check his numbers, they're all over the place. Gordon's % for his career: 41, 44, 41, 41, 41.

[Real Deal]

Ben Gordon was never doubled on the perimeter. Ever. I watch enough Bulls to know that. No team is that stupid to double him, anyways. No point in it.

 

Larry Bird drew much, much more attention. Three times as much.

 

And, at first, you're dismissing how many attempts players shoot...but now it's important? Bird is a career 38% 3PT shooter. He also had his string of 40's, and again, that's with much more defensive attention.

 

But okay, Ben Gordon is the greatest three-point shooter in the history of the NBA. You win.

[Gooner]

Ben Gordon was never doubled on the perimeter. Ever. I watch enough Bulls to know that. No team is that stupid to double him, anyways. No point in it.

I've seen all but a handful of Ben Gordon's games in a Bulls uniform and this statement is simply wrong. Ben was often doubled simply because in most games he was the only player on the Bulls who could hurt you.

 

Larry Bird drew much, much more attention. Three times as much.

Of course he did, because he's a much better player than Ben Gordon. Larry Bird also played with the likes of Dennis Johnson, Kevin McHale, and Robert Parish. Who's the best player Ben Gordon has ever played with? Luol Deng?

 

And, at first, you're dismissing how many attempts players shoot...but now it's important? Bird is a career 38% 3PT shooter. He also had his string of 40's, and again, that's with much more defensive attention.

I never dismissed how many attempts a player shoots. You brought up this whole thing about how Ben Gordon wasn't shooting 500 attempts like Allen and Miller therefore he shouldn't be considered even though both Allen and Miller shot about the same amount of shots as Ben Gordon early in their careers. Gordon has always shot 300+ which is a significant amount and one that's been increasing year by year. Yet at the same time you bring up Larry Bird who never even sniffed 300 attempts and barely shot 200 a couple of times.

 

But okay, Ben Gordon is the greatest three-point shooter in the history of the NBA. You win.

I'm glad we can agree on something.

 

Although I never claimed that. I said he was one of the best ever and in my opinion can be the best ever at the end of his career.

[Real Deal]

Simply put, you're going to judge a player after five seasons. I'm going to judge him when he's considered a true veteran, 10+ seasons in the NBA.

 

I don't call anyone great at anything until they reach that mark. Ben Gordon doesn't hold any three-point records today. He doesn't hold any for attempts in a season, makes in a game, percentage in a season, percentage in a career, wins in a three-point contest, makes in a three-point contest, nothing notable as a record mark, and I don't even think he comes close to any of those, either...and he's too young for me to say he's done good enough to be called one of the greatest ever.

 

Let him give us a couple of seasons of 46% with those 300 attempts sometime in his career, mixed with consistent 37-40% shooting from downtown. Or let me see him become a 27-28 PPG scorer and feel amazing defensive pressure (like Bird) and still reach 40% from the arc in four consecutive seasons. Let me see SOMETHING that tells me he's a great three-point shooter, not a really good one, and then we'll agree.

 

And in all the years I've watched Ben Gordon on League Pass and on WGN (in Kansas), I have never seen him doubled on the perimeter more than once a game.

 

And by the way, Kirk Hinrich and Luol Deng have both been excellent teammates up until 2008. Technically, his best teammate has been Derrick Rose, this past season. And Eddy Curry was the leading scorer, and a true offensive threat, in Ben Gordon's rookie year, shooting 54% from the floor and dropping 16 PPG, which is better than what Pau Gasol did for Memphis in 2004 and 2005.