Obama Joker Poster Case

[Guru]

You are failing to see the point.

The people get 100K, buy things that they really need. The money is pumped back into the economy, reducing its national debt?????

Get it now???

As Brandon already said, bank revenue is the key to this economy. You can't just give away that much money and hope that people spend it. Money needs to be pumped back into the Federal Reserve if you want us to get out of this recession.

[Real Deal]

Ah, come on. Bill Clinton didn't start this. Our economy started failing after 9/11, and unemployment was rising around 2003, stayed level up until 2008, and then it started rising again.

 

See, this is where I end the discussion. Saying that Bill Clinton is the reason the economy started failing is like saying the war in Iraq benefits us...and usually, people that hate Bill Clinton WILL say the war is good.

 

Truth is, I don't like everything Obama does. I don't like anything Bush did. I don't care if you are a left-wing or right-wing, don't care what people see me as. Politics are the fall of this country. People that make decisions based on their political "beliefs" do so because they can't think on their own.

 

I hate Obama's health care plan. Health care needs fixed, but not like that.

 

However, the government has to step in and do something right now, to save this economy, because it's been proven for eight years that the American people (and more importantly, the rich) sure the hell don't want to save it, and without the middle class, this country is dead on its feet.

 

If someone is looking for a resolution, make things such as welfare, medicaid and medicare available to those that actually deserve it. Give it to those who have no history of drug abuse. Give it to those who have no criminal record. Give it to those who have no history of lawsuits connected to more than one job-related accident. Then raise taxes slightly for those making six figures, keep taxes the same for anyone else. Put a real ban on illegal immigration. Shut down the borders and demand that everyone entering this country registers immediately. End the war in Iraq, to stop spending money for nothing. Force banks into giving loans to US residents that have been here for longer than a year, 600+ credit score (instead of a ridiculous 725 you pretty much have to have today). Hell, legalize marijuana, put a tax on it and sell it, since alcohol is more dangerous.

 

But no, you won't see much of that going on, ever, because everyone is concerned about Democrats and Republicans, and not the American public, and that's why we're in the mess we are in today.

[Mike Hawk]

As Brandon already said, bank revenue is the key to this economy. You can't just give away that much money and hope that people spend it. Money needs to be pumped back into the Federal Reserve if you want us to get out of this recession.

 

Lol well whats the problem we are having now, Mr. Know it all?????

People arent spending their money right now, I wonder why. A lot are taking it out of the banks 2. The banks are not earning interest on that Money.

 

Why do you think the Federal Reserve Borrowing rate is so low right now??? Without money in the banks, they cant charge a higher rate, plain and simple. And it is pumped into the federal reserve, people buy houses, the federal reserve gets a cut. Why else do you think they call it Federal Taxes?

[Mike Hawk]

Ah, come on. Bill Clinton didn't start this. Our economy started failing after 9/11, and unemployment was rising around 2003, stayed level up until 2008, and then it started rising again.

 

See, this is where I end the discussion. Saying that Bill Clinton is the reason the economy started failing is like saying the war in Iraq benefits us...and usually, people that hate Bill Clinton WILL say the war is good.

 

Truth is, I don't like everything Obama does. I don't like anything Bush did. I don't care if you are a left-wing or right-wing, don't care what people see me as. Politics are the fall of this country. People that make decisions based on their political "beliefs" do so because they can't think on their own.

 

I hate Obama's health care plan. Health care needs fixed, but not like that.

 

However, the government has to step in and do something right now, to save this economy, because it's been proven for eight years that the American people (and more importantly, the rich) sure the hell don't want to save it, and without the middle class, this country is dead on its feet.

 

If someone is looking for a resolution, make things such as welfare, medicaid and medicare available to those that actually deserve it. Give it to those who have no history of drug abuse. Give it to those who have no criminal record. Give it to those who have no history of lawsuits connected to more than one job-related accident. Then raise taxes slightly for those making six figures, keep taxes the same for anyone else. Put a real ban on illegal immigration. Shut down the borders and demand that everyone entering this country registers immediately. End the war in Iraq, to stop spending money for nothing. Force banks into giving loans to US residents that have been here for longer than a year, 600+ credit score (instead of a ridiculous 725 you pretty much have to have today). Hell, legalize marijuana, put a tax on it and sell it, since alcohol is more dangerous.

 

But no, you won't see much of that going on, ever, because everyone is concerned about Democrats and Republicans, and not the American public, and that's why we're in the mess we are in today.

 

Brandon,

 

Here this Man speaks from experience for you.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAH-o7oEiyY

 

Here is some more Videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY94E2QByKY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AplQw2F-M14

 

 

I would rather trust someone who has the experience in the manner. Than someone who has no experience at all, I am not trying to insult your intelligence in anyways. But Experience speaks wonders.

 

But Brandon,

You seem to be more Republican by your posts lately. I am not sure what you are arguing. You hate that your dad has to pay so many taxes. Again thats a democrat policy, the democrats are known for raising taxes, while republicans send stimulus checks to offset their tax increases.

 

 

 

""""""If someone is looking for a resolution, make things such as welfare, medicaid and medicare available to those that actually deserve it. Give it to those who have no history of drug abuse. Give it to those who have no criminal record. Give it to those who have no history of lawsuits connected to more than one job-related accident. Then raise taxes slightly for those making six figures, keep taxes the same for anyone else. Put a real ban on illegal immigration. Shut down the borders and demand that everyone entering this country registers immediately. End the war in Iraq, to stop spending money for nothing. Force banks into giving loans to US residents that have been here for longer than a year, 600+ credit score (instead of a ridiculous 725 you pretty much have to have today). Hell, legalize marijuana, put a tax on it and sell it, since alcohol is more dangerous."""""""""

 

I agree with this 10000% percent, and that is what a lot of Republicans are actually trying to do. But they get labeled by the media as evil.

[Real Deal]

Without money in the banks, they cant charge a higher rate

The banks won't have any money if nobody uses them for loans.

 

And nobody will need loans if the government uses your plan and gives everyone $100k.

 

It's that cut and dry. I'm not sure how else to put it.

 

If the government figured that giving money to the people was the resolution, you'd think that would've been done already. And when I say "giving money," I'm not talking about a small check for $200.

 

The US can't afford to give everyone a million, or a hundred thousand. The banks can't afford to lose everyone's business. This country can't afford to lose their banks.

 

Aaron hit the nail on the head earlier, with his reference to USPS. It's a perfect example of government-controlled business that has been effective for decades. You don't have a USPS CEO stealing money from the program, and you still have a vast amount of people involved, seemingly unlimited jobs and millions that use the service.

[Real Deal]

That's the speech where Greenspan declares that he didn't fully understand what happened, also.

 

And wasn't it Greenspan that said he supported slowing down the economy and raising unemployment, to maintain a certain level of insecurity among the workers?

 

Again, just another guy who wants to point fingers at his party's opposition.

[Mike Hawk]

The banks won't have any money if nobody uses them for loans.

 

And nobody will need loans if the government uses your plan and gives everyone $100k.

 

It's that cut and dry. I'm not sure how else to put it.

 

If the government figured that giving money to the people was the resolution, you'd think that would've been done already. And when I say "giving money," I'm not talking about a small check for $200.

 

The US can't afford to give everyone a million, or a hundred thousand. The banks can't afford to lose everyone's business. This country can't afford to lose their banks.

 

Aaron hit the nail on the head earlier, with his reference to USPS. It's a perfect example of government-controlled business that has been effective for decades. You don't have a USPS CEO stealing money from the program, and you still have a vast amount of people involved, seemingly unlimited jobs and millions that use the service.

 

Like I said, I dont disagree with the government owning some things. However, they cant own everything. The banks will still have money. Some people will buy a house, Some will put that 100K in the banks to gain unrealized interest that was never possible before. The banks will not be without money, they will just have to control their money inflows and outflows better. It will force the banks not to lend to those people who have 600 scores, like you were saying before because now they will actually be responsible if they lose their money. And if they make a lot of risky lending that doesnt work out, then guess what they go under. They will be valuing their hard earned money a lot more than free handouts by the GOV.

I completely agree witht he USPS CEO not stealing. But you are the same guy who is making the statement that its okay for GM to be government backed because their CEO stole? While at the same time punishing Ford?

I dont know how many college courses you failed or if you failed any. But how would you feel if a bunch of kids failed your class final and then got 5 retries to take it until they got the answer right?

It takes away intergerty from the institution its the same like Plagarizam.

 

Would you rather have a doctor operate on your eye who is owned by Mr. Obama, and who doesnt really care about you because regardless if his surgery is a success or not he will still be getting paid?

Or would you rather work hard earn some money and get great quality care on your eye?

[Mike Hawk]

That's the speech where Greenspan declares that he didn't fully understand what happened, also.

 

And wasn't it Greenspan that said he supported slowing down the economy and raising unemployment, to maintain a certain level of insecurity among the workers?

 

Again, just another guy who wants to point fingers at his party's opposition.

 

Greenspan is saying he didnt agree with Clintons plan but he wasnt sure at the time. You cant blame the guy, when the president is telling you something its hard to Decline. I am sure if Mr. Obama came to your house and told you to get rid of OTR, but didnt provide real reasons, you would do it. Well Because he is the president Right?

 

And yes Greenspan was the one who supported Slowing the economy. Dont you get it he only said this because he knew that constant growth of GDP would not be forever. You cant have people spending outside of their means, and expecting the currency to constantly Appreciate, it just doesnt happen. YOu cant oversupply a good thing and then expect the demand for it to be the same?

 

ANd also yes to the unemployment. Like I said you cant have 0% unemployment, because this would give the bargaining power to the workers and not their companies. If you were guaranteed a job, you would not work as hard as someone who is not sure. Its proven all over history. The output per worker reduces when he knows that he is guaranteed a job and is getting paid the same as everyone Else. Simple Economics for you my friend.

[Real Deal]

Greenspan had no reason to say what he did about slowing the economy while he's pointing fingers in many other speeches about who is the cause of a plummeting economy. That's being a hypocrite, something Greenspan has always been good at.

 

And you noted that the banks wouldn't have to lend to anyone with 600-700 on their credit scores. Well, they don't now...and that's why Americans (namely the middle class) hate it. When the industry comes out with a $40,000 car and expects people to buy it, they better start loaning out money to more than just the rich people that, honestly, don't even need a damn loan.

 

The country has fallen into the hands of the rich, simple as that. There's no more for me to discuss.

[Mike Hawk]

Greenspan had no reason to say what he did about slowing the economy while he's pointing fingers in many other speeches about who is the cause of a plummeting economy. That's being a hypocrite, something Greenspan has always been good at.

 

And you noted that the banks wouldn't have to lend to anyone with 600-700 on their credit scores. Well, they don't now...and that's why Americans (namely the middle class) hate it. When the industry comes out with a $40,000 car and expects people to buy it, they better start loaning out money to more than just the rich people that, honestly, don't even need a damn loan.

 

The country has fallen into the hands of the rich, simple as that. There's no more for me to discuss.

 

Yes, but greenspan is not the leader of your country. He is just the federal chief. if [expletive] fails then you have to look at the president who is the true leader. If he cant control your country then he also is a failure. Leaders are the ones who are held for their actions. Mr. Greenspan was also just a worker for Mr. Bill Clinton, not the president himself. Dont you think if he had more power he would have changed things? It doesnt make him a hypocrite he did what his Boss made him do to keep his job. I am sure you would do the same to keep your job.

BTW whats your take on Mr. Bernanke?

 

Thats exactly whats wrong with the industry the 40K cars, because the country is encouraging them to produce it by giving them bailouts. I have beeen trying to tell you this the whole time, yet you agreed with giving GM a bailout and punishing ford who was saving for a rainy day. I am sure you could spend all your money on gambling. And what would happen then, I am sure you would be on the street homeless and would not get a bailout. But no you take the conservative approach and save your money like Ford. How would you feel to be punished and paying for someone else who did not save their money?

 

And I agree the country has fallen to The Lobbyists not the rich. My solution is real simple lets unite both parties and cut out the BS Deal?

[alcstarheel]

Yes but do you want everything to be ran by the government. Some things have to be ran by the government or else it wont work like the Military. You cant have State Run militaries in every 50 states.

Can you point out where I said I wanted everything ran by the government? I specifically said that too much government is not good, as is too little government. I also said that we are not going to have a paradigm shift.

 

Also, there is a state run military in every state. That's the National Guard. Until the early 1900s they were independent for each state. They still answer to their state governor first, so they are semi-independent. (comes from Wikipedia)

 

You asked this question...

 

Explain to me how its fair for a company like Ford to compete agaisnt a new Government Owned General Motors?

 

...and I answered with USPS, ran by the government. UPS and FedEx compete with them on a daily basis, often doing better. Does the government infuse money into USPS if it's doing poorly? Yes. Do they do it for UPS and FedEx? No. Are UPS and FedEx still highly competitive entities? Yes. The postal service has a constitutional monopoly. Where's the outrage???

 

To your new questions:

 

I dont think its fair for GM to get a bailout when they make mistakes. But the good hard work of ford goes unnoticed because they had enough money to save for a rainy day. So you are telling me if I make a mistake, its okay I will get rewarded. But If I got money and I am doing good I dont need to get rewarded F Me. Do you see what I am getting at and what this is teaching other companies and industries.

This isn't Joe's Crab Shack that was having problems. This is an institution that has been a part of this country for decades. Just like Chrysler was. Just like Ford. But I guarantee you if Ford was having problems their palms would be open ready for whatever they could receive.

 

GM did not receive a bailout to increase their profit. They received one so the large number of employees wouldn't lose their jobs and the very large number of suppliers wouldn't lose out on their biggest client. It wasn't the greatest thing, but desperate times...

 

Do you want the goverment deciding when you need a new knee or prostetic leg. Because thats whats happening in Canada, they also have sign up lists for Medical Procedures. Thats why so many people come down here to get the care they need.

I read the Wiki as well...what I've seen is that the reason Canadians are coming down here is because we have more availability, whether it be in hospital space or available physicians. Most of that stuff being waited on is for specialized care, which happens here as well. U.S. citizens get flown around the country for specialized, non-plastic surgery care as well.

 

The government decides what public elementary and high schools you can go to. If you try to go to a public school not mandated by them, you will have repercussions. Doesn't matter if you really like the biology teacher at the public school out of your district. You have to learn from the biology teacher in your district if you are expecting services from government teachers. So where's the stomp on Washington about this?

 

---

 

So what we are learning is that we don't mind if the government tells us where we can get our education. But once you tell us where we can get medical work done the whole country is coming to an end. So how about we do away with all the public schools and let people choose, with their own money and discretion, which private schools they can go to...no public funding involved. Let's see how that plays out http://i26.tinypic.com/2evybh1.gif

 

The bottom line is this...the government will tell you what you can do if it involves funds they have used. If you don't want to do that, there are alternatives, like taking a non-toll road instead of a toll road, or going to a private school outside of your district if you don't want to go to the public school in your district.

 

The only main thing the government makes you do, from which there is no alternative, is paying taxes for goods, income, and property (along with whatever else is there). Everything else is left up to you for the most part, and that will continue throughout your lifetime and your kid's lifetime.

[Mike Hawk]

 

 

 

To your new questions:

 

 

This isn't Joe's Crab Shack that was having problems. This is an institution that has been a part of this country for decades. Just like Chrysler was. Just like Ford. But I guarantee you if Ford was having problems their palms would be open ready for whatever they could receive.

 

GM did not receive a bailout to increase their profit. They received one so the large number of employees wouldn't lose their jobs and the very large number of suppliers wouldn't lose out on their biggest client. It wasn't the greatest thing, but desperate times...

 

 

I read the Wiki as well...what I've seen is that the reason Canadians are coming down here is because we have more availability, whether it be in hospital space or available physicians. Most of that stuff being waited on is for specialized care, which happens here as well. U.S. citizens get flown around the country for specialized, non-plastic surgery care as well.

 

The government decides what public elementary and high schools you can go to. If you try to go to a public school not mandated by them, you will have repercussions. Doesn't matter if you really like the biology teacher at the public school out of your district. You have to learn from the biology teacher in your district if you are expecting services from government teachers. So where's the stomp on Washington about this?

 

---

 

So what we are learning is that we don't mind if the government tells us where we can get our education. But once you tell us where we can get medical work done the whole country is coming to an end. So how about we do away with all the public schools and let people choose, with their own money and discretion, which private schools they can go to...no public funding involved. Let's see how that plays out http://i26.tinypic.com/2evybh1.gif

 

The bottom line is this...the government will tell you what you can do if it involves funds they have used. If you don't want to do that, there are alternatives, like taking a non-toll road instead of a toll road, or going to a private school outside of your district if you don't want to go to the public school in your district.

 

The only main thing the government makes you do, from which there is no alternative, is paying taxes for goods, income, and property (along with whatever else is there). Everything else is left up to you for the most part, and that will continue throughout your lifetime and your kid's lifetime.

 

So you agree with my first point then. No need in arguing it.

 

Second Point:

There is no outrage to UsPS, like I said. SOme government control is good, which was proven by the first point.

 

Third point: Yes let it go under and gie the money to the American people instead. or If you are so worried about the workers give them the money instead of 2 GM. They dont loose their jobs and get a nice retirement.

Do you also realize how badly the stockholders where screwed by the whole GM dilemma. Did you see how they liqudated the company, At the end the stockowners got almost 0% of the new GM. Their shares were worth 0. How can you justify screwing the investors but not teh Stock OWners. Everyone else is getting bailouts yet stock owners still ahve to pay taxes for thier stock gains. Shouldnt they also be given a bailout? I mean [expletive] everyone is getting it. Lets just give everyone a bailout?

 

Next Point:

There is always an option for Private School, if you can afford it. Also dont you see how badly our current school system is failing and how bad the US youth is on Geography. I guess another government run thing equals another failure.

[alcstarheel]

Next Point:

There is always an option for Private School, if you can afford it. Also dont you see how badly our current school system is failing and how bad the US youth is on Geography. I guess another government run thing equals another failure.

You fell into the trap.

 

Even with a publicly run school system, there is an private option you could use. Just like if health care were publicly run, there'd be private option. Just like everything government run, there is a private option.

 

So stop worrying that they will take over everything. They won't.

 

Teachers are underpaid and students are apathetic. That's why it's failing. Government-run school systems are doing just fine in other countries.

 

I'm guessing you'd rather have schooling privatized as well, since the government has failed at it? I can't even imagine how high those tuition prices would be. People would opt not to go to high school so they could save money.

 

Well, I guess it'd sort of be like health care and insurance is right now.

 

 

 

-- EDIT - the other stuff I did read, but it didn't look like it was worth responding to

[Mike Hawk]

You fell into the trap.

 

Even with a publicly run school system, there is an private option you could use. Just like if health care were publicly run, there'd be private option. Just like everything government run, there is a private option.

 

So stop worrying that they will take over everything. They won't.

 

Teachers are underpaid and students are apathetic. That's why it's failing. Government-run school systems are doing just fine in other countries.

 

I'm guessing you'd rather have schooling privatized as well, since the government has failed at it? I can't even imagine how high those tuition prices would be. People would opt not to go to high school so they could save money.

 

Well, I guess it'd sort of be like health care and insurance is right now.

 

 

 

-- EDIT - the other stuff I did read, but it didn't look like it was worth responding to

 

But the government run system doesnt work here. Thats why everything is failing.

The government control and socialisam, does work in some other countries, because the cultures have different values. Even you agreed that the schooling system thats ran by the government is failing just like everything else.

[alcstarheel]

But the government run system doesnt work here. Thats why everything is failing.

The government control and socialisam, does work in some other countries, because the cultures have different values. Even you agreed that the schooling system thats ran by the government is failing just like everything else.

Dood, it isn't failing because it's government run. Nice try. I said why it was failing.

[Mike Hawk]

Dood, it isn't failing because it's government run. Nice try. I said why it was failing.

 

Because the teachers are underpaid and students are pathetic????

 

 

Who controls the pay of the teachers? The state government right?

This is the same thing that will be happening with your doctors, they will be underpaid and not care about the patients and you will see the same exact thing happening.

 

How are the students pathetic?

Its not the students job to be role model citizens. The whole point of the teachers is to teach them lives necessary skills and that includes to teach them to love to study and do homework. I am sure you know a lot of foreign people do you see them complaining about how hard the homework is ALCS?

[alcstarheel]

Because the teachers are underpaid and students are pathetic????

 

 

Who controls the pay of the teachers? The state government right?

This is the same thing that will be happening with your doctors, they will be underpaid and not care about the patients and you will see the same exact thing happening.

 

How are the students pathetic?

Its not the students job to be role model citizens. The whole point of the teachers is to teach them lives necessary skills and that includes to teach them to love to study and do homework. I am sure you know a lot of foreign people do you see them complaining about how hard the homework is ALCS?

Teachers are underpaid because people don't want to pay, and I said students are apathetic.

[Mike Hawk]

Teachers are underpaid because people don't want to pay, and I said students are apathetic.

 

What makes you believe that people will support paying taxes for a public health system then?

[alcstarheel]

What makes you believe that people will support paying taxes for a public health system then?

I never said we should have a public health care system like our public school system.

[Mike Hawk]

I never said we should have a public health care system like our public school system.

 

So wait what are you supporting then?

Anti Obama or Pro Obama?

Can you go down the issues and let me know where you stand on them?