Erick Blasco's Top 30 NBA Power Forwards

[Erick Blasco]

While the plurality of NBA centers are brutish behemoths, power forwards are the most versatile specimens the NBA displays, with some exhibiting a leopard’s athleticism, others possessing a dancer‘s footwork on a steel frame, and still more demonstrating an uncanny combination of outside shooting, post moves, and rebounding prowess.

 

This list does not take into account a player’s future prospects or past salad days. The criteria is simple: Which NBA center would be best suited to winning a championship with a random collection of starting-level talent. For example, if Andrew Bynum, Al Thornton, Joe Johnson, and Beno Udrih are your teammates, who would you want as your power forward?

 

Due to the way some NBA lineups are presently constructed, a handful of potential power forwards will be asked to play different positions this year. For that reason, David Lee, Al Jefferson, Andrea Bargnani, and Al Horford are listed as centers, as they will likely play the center position for their teams this season.

 

No rookies made the list, as neither you nor I have seen them play in meaningful games against meaningful competition to know where they should be ranked.

 

Introduction aside, the list:

 

1) Kevin Garnett—Boston Celtics

 

Since Tim Duncan is listed as a center, Kevin Garnett assumes Duncan’s vacated hole as the best power forward in the game.

 

In truth, Garnett doesn’t have the chops to be a team’s franchise player as his failings in the clutch are too innumerable to count. As a support player, he’s one of the best ever.

 

Few players over the course of history have the defensive range and energy of Garnett. Not only can his length swallow up opposing post players, but he’s an astute help defender, and his incredible quickness allows him to hang stride for stride with guards and wings on the perimeter.

 

Garnett uses his remarkable wingspan to be a rebounding force. He also gets real wide on screens, though referees usually let him move through the screen. He’s a very accurate jump shooter, and his height and soft touch allows him to be a capable finisher around the basket.

 

As evidenced by Boston’s play with and without Garnett, he’s the player that sets their entire defense in motion, even if Paul Pierce is the team’s offensive playmaker, and individual defensive stopper.

 

2) Pau Gasol—Los Angeles Lakers

 

Gasol and the Lakers have formed a perfect marriage as Gasol’s skillset and the triangle offense are perfectly suited for each other.

 

Gasol is an incredibly clever offensive player, with a myriad of tricks to punish opposing defenses. He has terrific handles which allows him to be a force from the high post where he can shoot, pass, or face-and-go. Plus, his advanced footwork allows him to execute tricky spin moves and be perfectly balanced.

 

He’s a fantastic passer and lengthy rebounder who also understands the nuances of moving without the ball and what his teammates are doing at all times.

 

And if Gasol isn’t a rough-and-tumble gladiator, he’s evolved into a player who can handle physicality and not be thrown off his game. How many times have we seen Gasol get clobbered by a defender, only to complete a three-point play because he holds the ball high and won’t be distracted by contact?

 

Defensively, Gasol isn’t a stalwart, but his length and quickness make him a deterrent against any comer. He’s almost never out of position, is an aware helper, and can hedge screens. Gasol’s improved his defense considerably since joining the Lakers, key reasons for their back-to-back Finals appearances and, 2009 championship.

3) Dirk Nowitzki—Dallas Mavericks

 

The best of an underwhelming crop of flawed stars, Dirk gets a slight nod over other power forwards, less for what he is—a jump shooter who fires too many blanks in crucial moments—than what other power forwards aren’t.

 

True, Dirk is one of the best shooters in the game, regardless of size. He’s also an adequate rebounder and passer. However, Nowitzki’s defense is terrible, and his post up game is subpar, relying almost exclusively on fadeaway jump shots. Quick defenders who can pressure Dirk’s jumpers and force him to make decisions going to the basket take him out of his rhythm and out of the game. Plus he plays passively in second halves against good teams, meaning the Mavericks are always ripe for disappointment.

 

Dirk’s very good, but not as good as Mavericks’ fans need him to be.

 

4) David West—New Orleans Hornets

 

West can do nearly everything, but he didn’t do it nearly enough last season. He wasn’t nearly enough of a factor in the post, relying too much on his perimeter game despite the Hornets needing easy buckets to compliment Chris Paul.

 

West struggled reacting to double teams, and worst of all, had too many games where he came out early with little to no energy as the Hornets stumbled into embarrassing early deficits. The lack of energy can be seen in his rebound and block totals which dipped last season. With Tyson Chandler missing so much time with injuries, New Orleans really needed West to deliver more than he produced last season.

 

Why is West so high on the list then? Because he’s versatile enough to knock down jumpers consistently, drive to the basket with force, and post for profit. Because he’s a solid defender across the board. Because he’s not defenseless, a creampuff, or selfish like the players below him.

5) Carlos Boozer—Utah Jazz

 

Boozer is a bear of an offensive player. He’s a rugged finisher when he can take his left hand from the elbow to the basket, or when he’s slipping or rolling screens. He’s grizzly around the basket, sets ferocious picks, and also has a soft touch from the perimeter.

 

However, except when he’s marking the backboards as his own personal territory, Boozer is in a permanent state of hibernation defensively. He doesn’t have the athleticism or the desire to be even a bad help defender, and unless he’s giving his opponent a solid shove in the post, is routinely outmatched. Whatever Boozer provides offensively is taken away defensively.

 

6) Chris Bosh—Toronto Raptors

 

Bosh is all finesse, no power. He’s a terrific elbow jump shooter, who loves to drive left along the baseline and use his tremendous quickness to blow by slower defenders. Too bad defenders who are quick enough to cut off Bosh’s drives, or are strong enough to rough him up when he drives to the basket render Bosh a non-factor.

 

Defensively, Bosh has poor anticipation, and is frequently outmuscled around the basket. He’s an average star; no wonder the Raptors are only an average team.

7) Elton Brand—Philadelphia 76ers

 

In his heyday, Brand could score on the box, knock down jump shots, rebound, pass out of doubles, and defend, all of which he did exceptionally well. At age 30, and coming off of a torn Achilles and a dislocated shoulder, it’s hard to know what Brand can and can’t do. Even anticipating a mild deterioration in athleticism, Brand is still too wise and talented to not be a force, but he probably won’t be the elite two-way player he was with the Clippers.

 

8) Lamar Odom—Los Angeles Lakers

A Swiss-army knife on stilts, there’s virtually nothing Odom can’t do. Slash to the basket? Check. Finish? Check. Handle? Pass? Check. Check. Defend, rebound and shoot? Check, check, and check.

 

Odom’s only real drawback is that he’s always had focus issues and can spend minutes on a court with little impact. He’s also not a terrific shooter, and can be roughed up by the league’s biggest bullies. But Odom is a multi-pronged weapon instrumental to the Lakers’ success.

 

9) LaMarcus Aldridge—Portland Trail Blazers

 

Still a touch too finesse, Aldridge is a young star with a tantalizing future. He’s as good a 20-foot jump shooter as any power forward in the league not named Dirk. He’s very athletic in the post, plays well without the ball, and is a quick-footed defender who can hang with speedy four-men on the perimeter. If he develops more power to his game, he’ll be a top-tier force in the league.

 

10) Antawn Jamison—Washington Wizards

 

Quick and clever, Jamison is more of an oversized small forward than a power forward. He’s a willing rebounder, and a skilled perimeter player with crafty moves around the basket.

 

Conversely, Jamison doesn’t create enough easy points in the paint because of his finesse nature and is one of the worst defensive forwards in the game.

 

11) Luis Scola—Houston Rockets

 

Smart, strong, and determined, Scola’s the epitome of what the Rockets are all about. He possesses great footwork in the post to unleash an array of hooks, spins, and up-and-unders, while having the handles to drive from the high post, and the jumper to punish defenses for leaving him uncontested.

 

Scola’s also a plus passer, screen-setter, and help defender if his own individual defense is only average at best.

 

12) Udonis Haslem—Miami Heat

One of the premier defensive forwards in the league, Haslem’s work behind the scenes is instrumental to Miami’s success. Not only is Haslem strong enough to defend power-oriented forwards, but he’s also quick enough to defend the perimeter, show on screens, and make impeccable rotations. Plus, his basketball IQ is exceptionally high.

 

Offensively, Haslem is a terrific mid-range jump shooter who can flood the basket from the baseline or the elbow. He’s a strong finisher who will run the break, and he’s a terrific passer to boot. He makes winning plays crucial to Miami’s success, and is a perfect Alfred to Dwayne Wade’s Bruce Wayne.

 

13) Antonio McDyess—San Antonio Spurs

 

Left for dead earlier this decade, McDyess has reinvented himself as an exceptional defender and outside jump shooter who can also hit turnarounds in the low post. Like Haslem, he’s a solid individual defender, but isn’t quite as quick defending screens or the perimeter, hence a lower ranking.

 

14) Paul Millsap— Utah Jazz

 

A rebounding monster, Millsap may be the best board man in the game not named Howard. His massive upper body gives him the strength to be a tremendous finisher, though he’s limited in creating his own offense. Defensively, he uses his quick feet and strength to reroute all but the most skilled scorers.

 

 

15) Boris Diaw—Charlotte Bobcats

 

Despite being a relatively limited player, Diaw’s presence opens up a team’s offense because of his remarkable court vision, awareness, and ability to distribute the basketball. Against poor defenses, Diaw allows his team to score points in harmony. Against good ones, he allows his team to manufacture points that would otherwise be unattainable.

 

Diaw’s evolved into a respectable post player who can hit left right hooks from the left box, and who can drive from the high post. Most importantly for Diaw, he’s evolved into a good three-point shooter, a problem for him in Phoenix because he couldn’t space the floor with his iffy jumper.

 

Diaw’s placement on the list is held back by his poor defense and just-average ability to create his own offense. Also, he can be too unselfish at times, giving up opportunities to score to make superfluous extra passes.

16) Carl Landry—Houston Rockets

 

Landry can flat out put the ball in the basket. If he’s not tall for a power forward (only 6’8“), and not particularly explosive, Landry’s adept at using angles in the paint to create lanes to finish—and finish he does well. When Landry isn’t posting up, he’s a terrific screen/roll player who can also screen/fade into mid-range jumpers. He defends well, and rebounds even better. What he doesn’t do is start, a testament to Houston’s stable of power forwards, more than Landry’s deficiencies.

17) Josh Smith—Atlanta Hawks

 

This kid oozes talent, but when is he going to grow up? For all of his highlight reel dunks, steals, and shot-blocks, Smith turns the ball over, misses rotations, and gets chumped by the player he’s guarding. Plus, despite his yelling and screaming, Smith is soft, particularly on the defensive end where he’d rather fly in late hoping for a swat, than get in position to make a defender take a tough shot.

 

If Smith ever figures things out, the Hawks can be dangerous. Until then, they’re fodder for the better teams in the East.

18) Kenyon Martin—Denver Nuggets

 

Martin is an inconsistent, but usually above-average defender who can occasionally pop in mid-range line drives or jump hooks near the basket. Strangely enough, while K-Mart was touted as an offensive force during the early years of his career, it’s his defense that keeps him on the court in Denver.

19) Zach Randolph—Memphis Grizzlies

 

How does a player who produces as much as Randolph does end up so far down the list of best power forwards? It’s because Randolph is a loser of a player.

 

How many times a game will Randolph massage the ball, zone out his teammates, and force a one-on-one play that ends in disaster? How many fruitless defensive trips result from Randolph’s inability and unwillingness to make any effort on that side of the court?

 

Far too many.

 

While Z-Bo is a very capable rebounder and a dreadnought scorer, he isn’t worth the time for a team with title hopes.

20) Troy Murphy—Indiana Pacers

 

Murphy has the size of a center, but aside from his rebounding prowess, has the game of a small forward. While Murphy can shoot the ball from deep, and has passable handles to get to the rim, he’s a weak finisher, a non-entity in the post, and a porous passer and defender. Plus, while his rebounding numbers are solid, he’s only average in tracking down balls outside his area.

 

Murphy’s too soft to be a difference maker.

21) Leon Powe—Cleveland Cavaliers

 

One of the most efficient players in the league, Powe carves a niche in games simply by being tougher than everybody. He’s a savage scorer and rebounder in the paint, is a strong defender, sets terrific screens, and can even knock down a few mid range jumpers. He’s injury prone, however, and doesn’t have much finesse on either end. He’d start on a number of teams, but Kevin Garnett kept him on the bench in Boston.

 

22) Chuck Hayes—Houston Rockets

 

Hayes may be the best post defending four in the game. While he isn’t tall (6’6”), he’s boulder strong and uses that strength to get great leverage on taller players. He’s nearly impossible to root out if he has position on you, and if he’s between you and a loose ball, he’s getting it.

 

He’d be higher on the list (and would see more playing time) if not for the fact that he’s one of the worst offensive players in basketball.

 

23) Anderson Varejao—Cleveland Cavaliers

 

Varejao’s defense is more about effort and energy than position and technique, but that isn’t to say it isn’t effective. He’s fluid for a power forward, will box out, rebound, show on screens, set sturdy picks, and run the floor hard. He also has an improving jump shot, and some rudimentary face up skills. His greatest talent though, and granted that the NBA’s referees are awful judges, is that his flops are worthy of Academy Awards.

 

24) Jason Maxiell—Detroit Pistons

 

Michael Curry forgot about Maxiell last year, but players, coaches, and scouts haven’t forgotten about Maxiell’s big time ability to block shots, grab offensive rebounds, run the floor, and finish strong at the rim. A new coach should mean a more pronounced role for Maxiell.

25) Al Harrington—New York Knicks

Harrington has wide receiver speed and can jump out of the gym. He has amazing handles for a 6’9” player, can score from all over, and can even play good defense.

 

Too bad, Harrington can’t play with any semblance of focus. He’ll follow up a strong defensive possession by turning his head and watching his man cut without the ball for a layup. He’ll believe the only thing to do when in a shooting slump is to take more difficult shots. He’ll follow up important dunks at the basket with juvenile slapping the backboard technical fouls like he did twice—twice!—in the final seconds of two separate games against the Clippers.

 

Harrington doesn’t keep his head on straight long enough to be a winning player.

 

26) Charlie Villanueva—Detroit Pistons

 

Villanueva is an inefficient creampuff who will put up points but won’t do anything else. His defense is atrocious, he seldom gets to the free throw line, he’s useless without the ball in his hands, and he gets pushed around for rebounds. There are far better scoring options in the league.

 

27) Kevin Love—Minnesota Timberwolves

Love looks like he may develop into a talented rebounder, but he’s too unathletic to be a major factor. Over a tenth of his shots end up swatted because he lacks the explosion and creativity necessary to being a talented finisher. His individual defense is porous, and he has no impact as a shot blocker. Some of that is due to general inexperience which will improve as he ages, but there’s a necessary degree of talent needed to be an impact player that Love doesn’t have.

 

He’s a useful role player, but not a game-changing one, and certainly not a star.

28) Drew Gooden—Dallas Mavericks

 

Inconsistent to a fault, Gooden doesn’t have the basketball IQ and court awareness to translate his myriad skills to repeatable successes. So while Gooden can shoot, face up, rebound, and play acceptable defense, he tends to go too many stretches firing blanks, getting beat to loose balls, and missing defensive rotations.

29) Tyrus Thomas—Chicago Bulls

 

Thomas is an athletic specimen who hasn’t quite put everything together. He’s a terrific weak-side shot blocker, but his defensive awareness and ability to defend his own man are subpar. He’s fantastically athletic, but he doesn’t have the handles or strength to take full advantage of it. He’s evolved into a streaky shooter, but there’s no telling if his pull up 20-footers will split the nets or clang of the iron. In short, Thomas still needs to be further refined to becoming a championship-level player.

 

30) Jeff Green—Oklahoma City Thunder

 

Long, lean, and limber, the green Green has a world of upside. He runs like a small forward which allows him to beat most competitors to the basket with his quickness. He’s also a capable jump shooter with three-point range. Green still has to put on more muscle to become a better finisher, defender, and rebounder, but at the tender age of 23, he has a lot of time to grow.

 

 

 

This article initially appeared on ballerblogger.com

[AtTheDriveIn]

For example, if Andrew Bynum, Al Thornton, Joe Johnson, and Beno Udrih are your teammates, who would you want as your power forward?

 

Tim Duncan.

 

Kevin Garnett is no longer #1 (or #2) either.

 

1. Duncan

2. Nowitzki

3. Gasol

4. Garnett

5. Boozer

[Diesel]

I stopped reading when I saw Pau Gasol ranked higher than Dirk Nowitzki. Do you honestly think that Dallas would be a better team if you replaced Gasol with him? The same guy that has won a whopping 0 playoff games as the franchise player. Gasol cannot be a number one option on a good team the way Dirk has for his entire career. He is a good 2nd option, but is now being overrated like hell just because the Lakers won the championship.

 

And Dirk coming up empty in the clutch is bull[expletive]. Other than guys like Melo, Wade, Kobe, LeBron, Paul, and Roy Dirk had the most points in clutch situations over any player this year and yes that includes EVERY other bigman. Gasol didn't even crack the top 35.

 

I also disagree with KG over Dirk, but that is at least debatable.

 

And Dirks defense isn't that bad. It's only bad when Dallas asks Dirk to man the middle and play the KG role which he is incapable of since he is not nearly as quick or long. Dirk has went on to become an ok help defender.

[Real Deal]

Eh, not sure.

 

1) Dirk Nowitzki

He's not the defensive player Garnett is, but he has been the sole leader of a Mavs franchise that has produced 8-9 consecutive 50+ win seasons. He's had his share of teammates, nonetheless, but so has Garnett.

 

2) Pau Gasol

After the problems he caused Dwight Howard, the improved defense, and the slight problems he was giving Garnett as well, along with the fact that he plays more like a power forward than Kevin, I have to stick him here.

 

3) Kevin Garnett

I'm still thinking about putting him #2, but it would only be for his defensive advantage. Thing is, I'm not so sure Garnett can stop Gasol, yet I'm sure Gasol can stop him, even when I watched Garnett shoot the ball a little more than he was supposed to against Pau in the 2008 Finals, and have more trouble on the glass in their last two meetings, 08-09.

 

That would be my top three.

[Guest VicNabb]

1. Duncan

2. KG

3. Dirk

[Real Deal]

1. Duncan

2. KG

3. Dirk

I think the Spurs are playing McDyess at the four this season, which moves Duncan up to center...but I don't have a confirmation on that (seems like the most logical decision, though).

[MainEv3nt]

Eh, not sure.

 

1) Dirk Nowitzki

He's not the defensive player Garnett is, but he has been the sole leader of a Mavs franchise that has produced 8-9 consecutive 50+ win seasons. He's had his share of teammates, nonetheless, but so has Garnett.

 

2) Pau Gasol

After the problems he caused Dwight Howard, the improved defense, and the slight problems he was giving Garnett as well, along with the fact that he plays more like a power forward than Kevin, I have to stick him here.

 

3) Kevin Garnett

I'm still thinking about putting him #2, but it would only be for his defensive advantage. Thing is, I'm not so sure Garnett can stop Gasol, yet I'm sure Gasol can stop him, even when I watched Garnett shoot the ball a little more than he was supposed to against Pau in the 2008 Finals, and have more trouble on the glass in their last two meetings, 08-09.

 

That would be my top three.

 

finally, someone else puts dirk over pau.

[Erick Blasco]

Tim Duncan.

 

Kevin Garnett is no longer #1 (or #2) either.

 

1. Duncan

2. Nowitzki

3. Gasol

4. Garnett

5. Boozer

 

Duncan's a center now. If you go to 82games.com it will show you that the majority of his minutes were at the center position, and with the Spurs likely starting a power forward in Antonio McDyess, it should continue to be that way. Since Duncan's a bit older, he's more able to defend centers than power forwards as well.

 

I stopped reading when I saw Pau Gasol ranked higher than Dirk Nowitzki. Do you honestly think that Dallas would be a better team if you replaced Gasol with him? The same guy that has won a whopping 0 playoff games as the franchise player. Gasol cannot be a number one option on a good team the way Dirk has for his entire career. He is a good 2nd option, but is now being overrated like hell just because the Lakers won the championship.

 

And Dirk coming up empty in the clutch is bull[expletive]. Other than guys like Melo, Wade, Kobe, LeBron, Paul, and Roy Dirk had the most points in clutch situations over any player this year and yes that includes EVERY other bigman. Gasol didn't even crack the top 35.

 

I also disagree with KG over Dirk, but that is at least debatable.

 

And Dirks defense isn't that bad. It's only bad when Dallas asks Dirk to man the middle and play the KG role which he is incapable of since he is not nearly as quick or long. Dirk has went on to become an ok help defender.

 

First of all, how many of those series' did Gasol lose when his team was favored? And when did he ever have a legit scoring option playing alongside him. And finally, I'm not comparing the Gasol of four years ago, the Gasol that's nowhere close to as good as the Gasol now in terms of defense and handling toughness.

 

How many times does Dirk get a pass for not coming through in close games during the playoffs. Last year's Game 3 against the Hornets, everybody remembers the controversial foul and Melo three, nobody remembers that Dirk missed his last five shots and 1 of 2 free throws in an ultraclose game.

 

Two years ago, he was outplayed by David West in the fourth quarters of every single loss, including a pivotal Game 1 that would have turned the tide of the series completely around.

 

Three years ago, Stephen Jackson of all people owned him. Four years ago, his horrible performances in Games 2-6 against the Heat, plus poor fourth quarters against the Spurs. If Manu Ginobili doesn't commit one of the most boneheaded fouls in playoff history (and more importantly, if the refs don't allow Dirk to blatantly hook Bruce Bowen at the beginning of his move), the Mavs don't get known for choking against the Heat, they get known for blowing the huge lead in Game 7 against a crippled Spurs team.

 

Dirk has failure written all over him, on his face and in his blood. In the playoffs against special teams, I have zero confidence in him coming through with a big play to help Dallas. I don't care about game winning regular season jumpers to beat Utah.

 

Go look at how Dirk performed in the fourth quarters against the Lakers last year. Scintillating stuff, the stuff of champions, missing his last five shots and scoring 0 points in a 7-point loss, missing three-of his last four shots and scoring 2 fourth-quarter points in a 7 point loss, missing his last seven shots and going scoreless for the final 22 minutes in a 7-point loss. I guarantee you Gasol scored more than 2 fourth quarter points against Dirk last year. Go look at dirk's performances vs. Boston, vs. Houston when the finally got healthy, vs. Cleveland, vs. the upper echelon.

 

His defense is as horible as I say it is, watch how slow he is trying to rotate to block a shot, or defend along the perimeter, or guard a post player. Do you think he can even bother Dwight Howard the way Gasol can?

 

Do you think when Gasol's jumper isn't falling, he'd be as completely inept as Dirk at creating points with Gasol's moves in the post? Do you think the Lakers win a title with Dirk as the Lakers' second option and not Gasol? The answers are most dinfitively no.

[Erick Blasco]

Eh, not sure.

 

1) Dirk Nowitzki

He's not the defensive player Garnett is, but he has been the sole leader of a Mavs franchise that has produced 8-9 consecutive 50+ win seasons. He's had his share of teammates, nonetheless, but so has Garnett.

 

2) Pau Gasol

After the problems he caused Dwight Howard, the improved defense, and the slight problems he was giving Garnett as well, along with the fact that he plays more like a power forward than Kevin, I have to stick him here.

 

3) Kevin Garnett

I'm still thinking about putting him #2, but it would only be for his defensive advantage. Thing is, I'm not so sure Garnett can stop Gasol, yet I'm sure Gasol can stop him, even when I watched Garnett shoot the ball a little more than he was supposed to against Pau in the 2008 Finals, and have more trouble on the glass in their last two meetings, 08-09.

 

That would be my top three.

 

I still think Garnett's a special defensive player. Gasol was terrible against him the first of two meetings last year until a great fourth quarter, one in which KG also performed well. The second game KG got outplayed, but Garnett also played great against a number of other elite players last year. Gasol's the better offensive player, but KG's no slouch and he has such a huge impact on a good team's defense.

 

Go watch how Dirk plays against your Lakers, and then go watch Dirk try to score in the fourth quarters against Boston, and you'll know that each player is miles ahead of Dirk.

[AboveLegit]

I don't understand how both Lamar Odom and LaMarcus Aldridge are ahead of Jamison.

[Revis Island]

1. Dirk

2. KG

3. Gasol

 

Duncan would be #1 easily if you considered him one.

[Legacy]

Any reason you didn't put Anthony Randolph there?

[Erick Blasco]

Any reason you didn't put Anthony Randolph there?

 

I haven't seen enough of him to know exactly how good he is. From what I have seen, he has explosive athleticism and little understanding of how to defend or play team ball. But he is quite a prospect. He actually has to play a little bit though before I can have an opinion on him. Nelson never really gave him a chance last season.

[Erick Blasco]

I don't understand how both Lamar Odom and LaMarcus Aldridge are ahead of Jamison.

 

All three are a touch soft, but Odom is the best finisher of the bunch while Aldridge is best with his back to the basket. Odom's much more versatile defensively and as a playmaker than Jamison. Aldridge is also worlds ahead of Jamison defensively. Aldridge also doesn't have the range or the handles, but he's just as good a shooter as Jamison from around 20 feet.

 

Odom gets the edge for being able to do so many things well, and last year, finally doing them consistently.

[Revis Island]

I still think Garnett's a special defensive player. Gasol was terrible against him the first of two meetings last year until a great fourth quarter, one in which KG also performed well. The second game KG got outplayed, but Garnett also played great against a number of other elite players last year. Gasol's the better offensive player, but KG's no slouch and he has such a huge impact on a good team's defense.

 

Go watch how Dirk plays against your Lakers, and then go watch Dirk try to score in the fourth quarters against Boston, and you'll know that each player is miles ahead of Dirk.

So you'll take the defender over the offensive player?

 

Sorry, but Gasol never even won a single game in the playoffs with the Grizzlies, Dirk led his team to the NBA Finals with No All-Stars in 2006. That's more than what Gasol has ever done as the leader.

[Erick Blasco]

So you'll take the defender over the offensive player?

 

Sorry, but Gasol never even won a single game in the playoffs with the Grizzlies, Dirk led his team to the NBA Finals with No All-Stars in 2006. That's more than what Gasol has ever done as the leader.

 

Fine, you're right. I'll adjust my ratings to compare Dirk Nowitzki to players 3 years ago.

 

Here are my rankings. Duncan, Brand, Garnett, Chris Webber (why stop at 3 years ago...let's go back to 10 years), Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Udonis Haslem, Horace Grant, Blake Griffin (why do 10 years ago, when we can do 10 years in the future!), Chris Bosh, Random H.S. Superstar, 2009 Pau Gasol, Dirk, 2006 Pau Gasol.

 

Happy?

[Diesel]

First of all, how many of those series' did Gasol lose when his team was favored? And when did he ever have a legit scoring option playing alongside him. And finally, I'm not comparing the Gasol of four years ago, the Gasol that's nowhere close to as good as the Gasol now in terms of defense and handling toughness.

 

 

In 2006 Gasol's Grizzlies were a 5th seed. The 4/5 matchups can usually go either way. I'm not going to fault Gasol for losing , but I am going to fault him for not winning a single game. And guess who he got swept by? Dirk Nowitzki and his 31 PPG on 51% Shooting.

 

 

How many times does Dirk get a pass for not coming through in close games during the playoffs. Last year's Game 3 against the Hornets, everybody remembers the controversial foul and Melo three, nobody remembers that Dirk missed his last five shots and 1 of 2 free throws in an ultraclose game.

 

Two years ago, he was outplayed by David West in the fourth quarters of every single loss, including a pivotal Game 1 that would have turned the tide of the series completely around.

 

Three years ago, Stephen Jackson of all people owned him. Four years ago, his horrible performances in Games 2-6 against the Heat, plus poor fourth quarters against the Spurs. If Manu Ginobili doesn't commit one of the most boneheaded fouls in playoff history (and more importantly, if the refs don't allow Dirk to blatantly hook Bruce Bowen at the beginning of his move), the Mavs don't get known for choking against the Heat, they get known for blowing the huge lead in Game 7 against a crippled Spurs team.

 

Here's what I find funny, you make a joke in your latest post about comparing the Dirk of years ago to Gasol of years ago, but here you are giving exclusive examples of things that happened in the past. It's obvious when your franchise player is having a poor series then the team will lose. Dirk has carried the Mavs for the past few years ever since Nash and Finley left. They only go as far as he goes and unlike other stars like Gasol he doesn't have a Kobe Bryant to take an extreme amount of pressure and attention off of him.

 

Dirk is the franchise in Dallas while Gasol is simply a sidekick. As a franchise player Gasol would never be able to lead a team to the finals the way Dirk has and if you honestly think a nucleus of Gasol, Josh Howard, and Jason Terry would be able to win 60+ games and get to the Finals then you sir are an idiot.

 

Am I the only one who saw Gasol be useless offensively against the Spurs last postseason? If Dirk had a series in which he averaed 13 PPG and 43% shooting I don't think you'd let anyone hear the end of it. But Gasol again has a better team than Dirk's ever had and when Gasol struggles it doesn't mean certain doom like it does with the Mavericks. Gasol was shut down in that series. Dirk has had his fair share of abysmal postseason series, but he's mad more good ones and his playoff average of 25.5 PPG 11.0 RPG 2.6 APG on 46% shooting is no joke. AS you can see Dirk has actually stepped up big time in the playoffs improving his career average the regular season of 22.7 PPG 8.6 RPG 2.7 APG.

Dirk has failure written all over him, on his face and in his blood. In the playoffs against special teams, I have zero confidence in him coming through with a big play to help Dallas. I don't care about game winning regular season jumpers to beat Utah.

 

What a failure that Dirk Nowitzki is. Leading a team to the playoffs for 9 straight years(something Gasol has never done once as the head honcho), winning a league MVP award, getting All NBA 1st Team Honors, and completely changing the basketball culture in an NBA city. Gasol will never do any of those things at any point in his career.

Do you think when Gasol's jumper isn't falling, he'd be as completely inept as Dirk at creating points with Gasol's moves in the post? Do you think the Lakers win a title with Dirk as the Lakers' second option and not Gasol? The answers are most dinfitively no.

 

Yes the Lakers would've been even better with Dirk rather than Gasol.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Diesel

[Diesel]

Go watch how Dirk plays against your Lakers, and then go watch Dirk try to score in the fourth quarters against Boston, and you'll know that each player is miles ahead of Dirk.

 

The thing is Dirk is Boston/LA's main concern and he is #1 on their gameplan defensively. With Gasol and KG there are options (Kobe, Pierce, Allen) that teams worry about hurting them even more offensively. Thus Dirk sees way more double teams than either of those players ever will playing with HOF teammates. There is no way in hell Gasol would do a better job single carrying that franchise the way Dirk does.

[AtTheDriveIn]

Duncan's a center now. If you go to 82games.com it will show you that the majority of his minutes were at the center position, and with the Spurs likely starting a power forward in Antonio McDyess, it should continue to be that way. Since Duncan's a bit older, he's more able to defend centers than power forwards as well.

 

You gave me a line up and said put a power forward in there who you think will make the team win. I know 82games.com rates him as a center and that's fine since it's the position almost every journalist is calling him nowadays but that doesn't change the fact that if you gave me that lineup, I wouldn't take Duncan. And by that guideline, I rated Duncan as the #1 power forward.

[Erick Blasco]

In 2006 Gasol's Grizzlies were a 5th seed. The 4/5 matchups can usually go either way. I'm not going to fault Gasol for losing , but I am going to fault him for not winning a single game. And guess who he got swept by? Dirk Nowitzki and his 31 PPG on 51% Shooting.

 

It was a nice first-round series by Dirk against an overmatched team, when Gasol wasn't as good as he is today.

 

Here's what I find funny, you make a joke in your latest post about comparing the Dirk of years ago to Gasol of years ago, but here you are giving exclusive examples of things that happened in the past. It's obvious when your franchise player is having a poor series then the team will lose. Dirk has carried the Mavs for the past few years ever since Nash and Finley left. They only go as far as he goes and unlike other stars like Gasol he doesn't have a Kobe Bryant to take an extreme amount of pressure and attention off of him.

 

What has he carried the team to besides playoff appearances? Dirk's history of choking away in the playoffs is a trend, while Gasol bucked that trend last season. That's why you can use everything Dirk's done in his recent career against him---because he's the same player. It's hard to call Gasol soft anymore when he's learned how to handle physicality so much better than he ever has. It's hard to call Gasol defenseless when he's become so much better defensively in every area. Where has Dirk improved? His offense, defense, and psyche have stayed exactly the same.

 

Go put Dirk on the Lakers, and they don't come close to a title. Put last season's Gasol on Dallas and I bet Chris Andersen doesn't completely shut him down like he did Nowitzki in Games 1 and 3.

 

Dirk is the franchise in Dallas while Gasol is simply a sidekick. As a franchise player Gasol would never be able to lead a team to the finals the way Dirk has and if you honestly think a nucleus of Gasol, Josh Howard, and Jason Terry would be able to win 60+ games and get to the Finals then you sir are an idiot.

 

Calling Gasol simply a sidekick is like calling Scottie Pippen simply a sidekick or John Stockton simply a sidekick or Tony Parker simply a sideick. You're so entranced by a player being a first option that you put blinders on to just how good these "sidekicks" are and just how important they are to creating wins. And that Mavs team, playing against the crippled Spurs, the defenseless Suns without an elite scorer, and the one-man gang Heat would've been fine with this year's Gasol. Gasol can actually post Haslem, Shawn Marion and Boris Diaw wouldn't touch him, and Gasol would hold his own with Duncan.

 

Here are Gasol's numbers against the Spurs last year. 10-14 FG, 5 REB, 1 AST, 5 TO, 21 PTS: 4-6 FG, 5 REB, 4 AST, 2 TO, 16 PTS: 10-15 FG, 11 REB, 3 AST, 3 TO, 23 PTS:

 

Those are ruthlessly efficent shooting numbers. Meanwhile defensively he helped hold Duncan to: 9-19 FG, 10 REB, 8 AST, 2 TO, 20 PTS: 6-12 FG, 8 REB, 1 AST, 0 TO, 15 PTS: 6-13 FG, 11 REB, 5 AST, 2 TO, 16 PTS.

 

Obviously Duncan did a number of other things well aside from score (especially in their first meeting), but don't tell me that Duncan obliterated Gasol when 24-35 from the field.

Am I the only one who saw Gasol be useless offensively against the Spurs last postseason? If Dirk had a series in which he averaed 13 PPG and 43% shooting I don't think you'd let anyone hear the end of it. But Gasol again has a better team than Dirk's ever had and when Gasol struggles it doesn't mean certain doom like it does with the Mavericks. Gasol was shut down in that series. Dirk has had his fair share of abysmal postseason series, but he's mad more good ones and his playoff average of 25.5 PPG 11.0 RPG 2.6 APG on 46% shooting is no joke. AS you can see Dirk has actually stepped up big time in the playoffs improving his career average the regular season of 22.7 PPG 8.6 RPG 2.7 APG.

 

Again, I have to reitirate, the Gasol that played Duncan in the postseason two years ago is not the same caliber player as the Gasol who was outstanding last year.

 

Go look up the numbers for every fourth quarter Dirk has had in the postseason since 2006, discounting the Suns series (because you and me Diesel could combine for 60 points with Tim Thomas and Boris Diaw defending us). Try to find every turning point in every playoff game Dallas has played since 2006. There have been a few big-time performances. A couple against the Spurs in 06, one or two in every series since then. Then go look at all the times Dallas has needed Dirk to come through and he's absolutely failed.

 

And they're not even against double-teams either. Miami singled him a ton, as did San Antonio and New Orleans. You say teams give Dirk too much attention so he's easier to stop, that 2006 Heat team had Wade, some specialists, and an over-the-hill Shaq. In the fourth quarter everybody knew what Miami was going to do (isolate Wade) and nobody could stop it. But with Dirk, defenses focus on him and suddenly scoring is too hard? Or playmaking is too hard?

 

What a failure that Dirk Nowitzki is. Leading a team to the playoffs for 9 straight years(something Gasol has never done once as the head honcho), winning a league MVP award, getting All NBA 1st Team Honors, and completely changing the basketball culture in an NBA city. Gasol will never do any of those things at any point in his career.

 

The same voters voted Marcus Camby as Defensive Player of the Year. Don't judge a player's worth on the whims of the easily impressed. 9 straight playoff appearances, how many titles? Even during a season in which they received EVERY POSSIBLE BREAK. A Grizzlies team in disarray, a crippled Spurs team, the defenseless Suns without Amare, and a one-man band Heat with a 2-0 series lead? If you want to be a championship player Dirk, that's your chance. It's yours on a silver platter. And he disappears against the Heat, bricks free throws, and makes himself a non-factor.

 

When Dirk rises to an occassion once in his life, I'll give him credit. Until then, let the Lakers single him with Lamar Odom and Gasol while he scores 2 points in the fourth quarters of three games against the Lakers.

 

Yes the Lakers would've been even better with Dirk rather than Gasol.

They wouldn't even get past last season's Rockets.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Erick Blasco

[Erick Blasco]

The thing is Dirk is Boston/LA's main concern and he is #1 on their gameplan defensively. With Gasol and KG there are options (Kobe, Pierce, Allen) that teams worry about hurting them even more offensively. Thus Dirk sees way more double teams than either of those players ever will playing with HOF teammates. There is no way in hell Gasol would do a better job single carrying that franchise the way Dirk does.

 

Wasn't Jason Terry the sixth man of the year, and didn't he hit a number of big shots during the postseason of 2006? How many points in the fourth quarter did Joe Johnson score in the fourth quarters in the 2008 postseason against Boston with a far worse supporting cast. Please don't make Dallas' roster out to be the Minnesota Timberwolves.

[Erick Blasco]

You gave me a line up and said put a power forward in there who you think will make the team win. I know 82games.com rates him as a center and that's fine since it's the position almost every journalist is calling him nowadays but that doesn't change the fact that if you gave me that lineup, I wouldn't take Duncan. And by that guideline, I rated Duncan as the #1 power forward.

 

Well you're tweaking the criteria a little bit. I'm only using players who I assume to be power forwards this year. If you wanted to, you can take Yao and Dwight, call Dwight the power forward, and dominate everybody.

[Revis Island]

Scola > Bosh

Jamison > FartRidge

[Revis Island]

Oh thank you for putting Boozer above the [expletive] Bosh, Boozer shows up in the playoffs while Chris Bosh gets his lunch money taken away by Jason Collins ROFL.

[Doc]

lol, you are such a hater.

 

First off, that was back when Bosh was still getting used to the playoffs and he still fresh in it. He was leading a team at such a young age. Where he had to be a leader and an example of both sides of the court. Where Collins had to only focus on defense because his O-game is just as good as a kid in grade 8. If you watched that playoff series, it wasn;t just Collins. Whenever Bosh took it to the basket, 2 otherplayers in the area would help crowd the paint, so Bosh couldn't do a thing. That is why T.J, Parkers, and Calderons numbers are up, because he was kicking it out alot. From having no experience in the playoffs, then trying to lead a team. Its pretty tough. lol, at scola being better than Bosh.