Arenas: Nobody Can Guard Me

[Real Deal]

See now you're showing complete hatred. Have you even hesitated to give Arenas a chance to prove himself this year? What will you be doing if he averaged 35 a night and wins a championship? Regretting everything you once said about him.

 

The point is, you need to stop looking at everything he did in the past, and take a glance at the new Gilbert Arenas.

 

And there's not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that Derrick Rose will be a great point guard, much better than Arenas is right now, but you're telling me you can replace Arenas with Rose, and they will be a much better team, that is flat out erroneous. What proof do you have of this? One season? Are you kidding me?

 

Have you had a chance to see him play in a Princeton Offense? Not only will it take him time to adapt to a new role, this is a completely different system than Memphis or Chicago, one that doesn't rely on him being a pure PG.

 

And I know you thought Grant Hill was going to be the next Jordan, but what happened to that? Guess what, it never did occur. You're saying all this with pure confidence, which really questions you're whole viewpoint on this subject.

If Arenas averaged 35 PPG, he won't make the playoffs...so there's no worry there. And why would I even worry myself about how far the Wizards will get? Finals? Really?

 

It took one full season for Rose to propel the devastated Bulls into the playoffs. Why wouldn't it take one year for him to do the same for a Wizards team that was the worst team in the NBA last season? The Tigers and Bulls are two different offensive teams as well, and in two different leagues at that.

 

Not only that, but the Princeton offense doesn't necessarily require five capable shooters, either. Butler, Jamison and Miller would be better off with a true point guard. Rose is more of a true point than Gilbert.

 

I'd take a look at the new Gilbert, but right now, all I can do is take a listen to him. The Gilbert I saw last, in the regular season, was one that should probably start considering bench play. If that's the Arenas you're telling me about, well, Washington is indeed in trouble if they expect him to lead.

 

Grant Hill suffered a massive injury that would've devastated any player in the league. He was told, at one point, that he may have difficulty walking. Hill has had five ankle surgeries, an emergency appendectomy, a sports hernia surgery, and he almost died back in 2003 due to an infection from doctors re-fracturing the ankle and aligning it with his leg bone.

 

Don't compare Hill and Arenas.

[AboveLegit]

Wait so I can't compare Hill to Arenas because Hill had numerous surgeries and Arenas only had two? That's wasn't even my focus at the point, the whole idea of me bringing Hill into this argument was to prove even the greatest of players can be struck with anything that would kill their careers, all goes to Rose, who you apparently are calling one of the greatest PG's in the next few years despite only seeing one season of him.

 

The Princeton offense doesn't require a pure PG at all, it's a series of screens and picks, which doesn't require a team like the Wizards, who already have two solid ball handlers starting as it is, to have a pure PG.

 

And when I said Arenas could average 35ppg and the Wizards going to the Finals, I simply stated that after I heard a few absurd comments from you, and decided to see what you would do if the Wizards were to find any sort of success in the upcoming season.

[Smithankyou]

So why can't Gilbert do the same? Don't say it's his PG size: Gilbert is every bit as big as Dwyane Wade. Yet Wade-Stevenson-Butler-Jamison-Haywood would feasibly be a Finals team.

 

wooo.. now that's too much for you to say i suppose...

[Real Deal]

Wait so I can't compare Hill to Arenas because Hill had numerous surgeries and Arenas only had two? That's wasn't even my focus at the point, the whole idea of me bringing Hill into this argument was to prove even the greatest of players can be struck with anything that would kill their careers, all goes to Rose, who you apparently are calling one of the greatest PG's in the next few years despite only seeing one season of him.

...okay, and Derrick Rose actually has nothing to do with Arenas to begin with. I'm simply stating that the Wizards would win 50 games with this current Derrick Rose, the one from this season. They don't need a prime Rose.

 

That's not saying Rose is already a better player than a younger Arenas, it's saying that Butler, Miller and Jamison would be better off with Rose, instead of a guy who thinks he can launch jumpers and walk away before they fall in the rim, someone who thinks he can declare a 50-point game, someone who thinks he can blag (blog + brag) about how important he thinks he is.

 

The Princeton offense doesn't require a pure PG at all, it's a series of screens and picks, which doesn't require a team like the Wizards, who already have two solid ball handlers starting as it is, to have a pure PG.

I never said it did require a pure point. I said that this particular group of guys, in the Princeton offense, would benefit from Rose. Jamison isn't a true power forward. Miller is also a shooter. Butler does his share of shooting. Rose would attack the rim off of those screens, something he did very, very well in Chicago, and hit his shooters (which is everyone from Miller to Jamison to even Stevenson) when he draws attention in the paint, something Arenas has never been able to do better than Rose, even a rookie Rose.

 

And when I said Arenas could average 35ppg and the Wizards going to the Finals, I simply stated that after I heard a few absurd comments from you, and decided to see what you would do if the Wizards were to find any sort of success in the upcoming season.

The absurd comments are only absurd to Wizards fans. A lot of people have heard this stuff before. We've heard how Washington was supposed to put Cleveland to sleep after their first playoff loss against them, then after their second. We heard how bad ass the Wizards were when they beat Boston three of four times in the regular season. We heard how Arenas was fully healthy and making his return.

 

Now that nobody can guard Arenas, and now that the Wizards are going to win a championship this season (according to Jamison, I believe), well...I guess we've heard it all now.

[AboveLegit]

You're totally living in the past, you're the only one I've came across this past few weeks who still thinks Arenas is a blogger, please update me on the last time Arenas made a blog entry RD because I think I missed something...When was the last time Arenas said ANYTHING to the media other than a few comments during Media day? When was the last time you heard a guarantee from Arenas? You need to stop thinking Gil is the same immature child he once was and face reality, Gil has grown up and is entering this season with a chip on his shoulder.

 

Arenas is much, much better than Rose on offense. If you really think Rose is that much better, who do you expect will hit those game winners and close out every game for us? You think he would make a 19 win team a 40+ win team? A rookie? Really?

 

Arenas also knows this system very well, and has done a helluva job under it. If you really think D-Rose can average over 28 and 6 in his first season, he's on his way in being in the top 3 PG's to ever play the game, because there's no way he can fill Gil's shoes in terms of Everything Arenas did for this team.

 

I just love how there are some people who think this is the same team from two years ago, it's hilarious. You guys still think we're a cocky, immature team with nothing to show for other than a few first round exits. This team has gone a long way from being that team you come to hate, we're a completely new team, and if you kept up with D.C. news, you would be able to acknowledge that much.

[Real Deal]

Arenas has shut his mouth because he hasn't had ANYTHING to talk about. I would, also. It's a wise decision on his part.

 

It's a new Wizards team? They haven't even played a single preseason game yet, haha. They are still the 19-win team they were last year.

 

Washington hasn't had a 50-win season since 1979, and that's when they were the Bullets.

 

Since 1979, they have been in the playoffs 12 times, with 10 first-round losses. 30 seasons.

 

Arenas has played 15 games in two seasons.

 

What makes you think I have any reason to believe that this Wizards team will be good enough to get into the second round or Conference Finals, let alone the NBA Finals?

 

And it has nothing to do with my dislike for the Wizards or Arenas. Andrew Bynum hasn't proven a damn thing to me, except for 14/8 in 50 games of his career, and that's not enough for me to consider him a future dominant center.

 

No article can sway my decision about a team, especially when it has no ties in with a regular season or playoff game, at all.

[Check my Stats]

I think I hate Arenas almost as much as KG.

[AboveLegit]

Arenas has shut his mouth because he hasn't had ANYTHING to talk about. I would, also. It's a wise decision on his part.

 

It's a new Wizards team? They haven't even played a single preseason game yet, haha. They are still the 19-win team they were last year.

 

Washington hasn't had a 50-win season since 1979, and that's when they were the Bullets.

 

Since 1979, they have been in the playoffs 12 times, with 10 first-round losses. 30 seasons.

 

Arenas has played 15 games in two seasons.

 

What makes you think I have any reason to believe that this Wizards team will be good enough to get into the second round or Conference Finals, let alone the NBA Finals?

 

And it has nothing to do with my dislike for the Wizards or Arenas. Andrew Bynum hasn't proven a damn thing to me, except for 14/8 in 50 games of his career, and that's not enough for me to consider him a future dominant center.

 

No article can sway my decision about a team, especially when it has no ties in with a regular season or playoff game, at all.

Arenas blogged quite a bit when he was injured actually, so to say he has nothing to say is ludicrous. The mere fact that half of his blogs weren't even directly related to the NBA proves you wrong. He could discuss his training, development, his life, the Wizards, and the season if he liked to. So why don't you think he blogs anymore?

 

And yes, everyone knows this is a different Wizards team. They have a different coach, three new players, they traded and released a few players, and have a totally different mindset this year. And oh yeah, their best player is back.

 

For someone with so much knowledge about the game, I find it tough to believe you don't agree with me here. Why bring up a season where we went through 2 coaches, two major injuries to our starters, and a total train wreck of a season? Yet you still manage to bring them up, for no reason at all.

 

And what's the point of bringing up our history? Does that EVER have any influence on the next season? Are we the Bullets anymore? Is Dick Motta still our Head Coach? Do we still have Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes on our roster?

 

And one would wonder why you don't think we can get to the second round. The fact is, we are the fourth most talented team in the East outside the upper echelon of teams, from top to bottom, come playoff time we would be facing the likes of Toronto or Atlanta, which is much easier than playing the Cavaliers. Maybe that's a legitimate reason to believe we can get past the first round?

[Real Deal]

You brought in an offensive-minded coach in Saunders. You're still going to be a bottom ten defensive team, something you've been since probably 2000 (just a guess).

 

The Celtics, Magic, Cavaliers and Pistons will all work you over in the playoffs. You can make an argument for Detroit, but at that point, you better pray you don't snag one of the bottom three seeds...or, better yet, just hope you don't play any of those top three teams in the first round...or you can kiss the entire season goodbye.

 

Yeah, you have Mike Miller and Randy Foye. Saunders is there. The team will still be ran by Arenas and Butler, and Jamison will still be that soft power forward that will get ran over by the true bigs.

 

I'll give Arenas a small window to change his ways and become more of a facilitator. If that doesn't happen, though, the team is dead in the water. 50 wins? If they do it, I wouldn't be that surprised, but beating the Celtics, Cavaliers and the Magic in the playoffs...and maybe even the Pistons...is a reach. Chicago, Miami and the Hawks would test Washington just because of Rose, Wade and Johnson.

[AboveLegit]

The Pistons? That's a joke right? Some experts don't even have them in the playoff picture, much less being named in the same breath as the Celtics, Cavs, and Magic.

 

We won 44 games or so with just the big three, now we add in a much better coach, a whole new mentality, better players, we will be able to win 50 games this season, it's very much possible.

 

Only once out of those players you mentioned have I seen actually take over a series, and that is Wade. Rose will not takeover against the Wizards, nor will JJ (I'm not at all saying he won't be a factor, as I would expect both to have amazing stat lines).

 

And that so called soft power forward managed to hang with Dwight Howard and KG the last two seasons when we played them, I'm not saying that will translate into the playoffs, but in no way should he be labeled soft.

[Real Deal]

The Pistons? That's a joke right? Some experts don't even have them in the playoff picture, much less being named in the same breath as the Celtics, Cavs, and Magic.

Wait, so are you saying Detroit won't make the playoffs with Hamilton, Prince, Gordon, Villanueva, Stuckey and a new coach? Didn't they just make the playoffs without two of those guys and a disgruntled Allen Iverson? Those experts are idiots, then.

 

We won 44 games or so with just the big three, now we add in a much better coach, a whole new mentality, better players, we will be able to win 50 games this season, it's very much possible.

Your best season since 1979 was the 45 wins in 2005, and that had to have been without Caron, because Butler was on the Lakers that year.

 

Two years ago, you won 43 games...and I'm pretty sure Arenas barely played.

 

With all three at full health, your best season was in 2006, with 42 wins. A good offensive team, bad defensive team (22nd in the league). Foye and Miller won't change that.

 

Only once out of those players you mentioned have I seen actually take over a series, and that is Wade. Rose will not takeover against the Wizards, nor will JJ (I'm not at all saying he won't be a factor, as I would expect both to have amazing stat lines).

Did you miss Rose dominating the Celtics when they didn't double team him? That Celtics team threw Rondo at him, and gave Rose extra attention with Perkins as well...two of their best defensive players, in fact. Rose shot almost 50% from the field and averaged 20/6/6 against them. If it wasn't for the referee not calling a flagrant on Rondo, the Bulls would've won that series, and you'd remember it as Rose dominating.

 

Now, if you truly think that Rose won't do that to the pathetic defense of the Wizards, especially if Arenas is the one having to defend him...well, I'm sorry to tell you that you're dead wrong.

 

And that so called soft power forward managed to hang with Dwight Howard and KG the last two seasons when we played them, I'm not saying that will translate into the playoffs, but in no way should he be labeled soft.

Jamison has been labeled soft his entire career. He doesn't play defense, ever. He belongs at the small forward slot.

 

I'm not going to compare Jamison and Howard, because that's a power forward and a center, and Haywood defends Howard more than Jamison does.

 

But wait...Garnett matches up with Jamison well? Garnett has shot better than him from the field in every single meeting since November 11th, 2005.

 

If you want numbers for JUST the last two seasons...

 

11/2/2007

Jamison: 4/16 FG (25%), 10 PTS, 10 REB, 1 AST

Garnett: 9/17 FG (53%), 22 PTS, 20 REB, 5 AST

 

1/12/2008

Jamison: 4/15 FG (27%), 10 PTS, 16 REB, 2 AST

Garnett: 7/14 FG (50%), 19 PTS, 6 REB, 2 AST

 

1/14/2008

Jamison: 8/21 FG (38%), 20 PTS, 10 REB, 0 AST

Garnett: 8/17 FG (47%), 23 PTS, 9 REB, 6 AST

 

4/9/2008

Jamison: 8/17 FG (47%), 27 PTS, 11 REB, 2 AST

Garnett: 9/16 FG (56%), 22 PTS, 14 REB, 5 AST

 

12/11/2008

Jamison: 7/16 FG (44%), 17 PTS, 5 REB, 2 AST

Garnett: 5/11 FG (46%), 11 PTS, 12 REB, 7 AST

 

1/2/2009

Jamison: 6/20 FG (30%), 14 PTS, 9 REB, 2 AST

Garnett: 5/9 FG (56%), 10 PTS, 8 REB, 3 AST

 

TOTALS

Jamison: 37/105 FG (35%), 16.3 PPG, 10.2 RPG, 1.5 APG

Garnett: 43/84 FG (51%), 17.8 PPG, 11.5 RPG, 4.7 APG

 

If Garnett was taking 17.5 FGA per game, I'm sure his scoring average would've been even higher.

 

I won't tell you what any of that means above (because you already know)...but I wouldn't exactly consider that "hanging" with Garnett, on offense OR defense.

 

Make it the playoffs, and Jamison gets trashed.

[AboveLegit]

In a seven game series, no doubt Jamison gets trashed. But it's not my point at all, the fact that you're underrating this team is where I'm getting at. The talent on this team is indisputable, adding Foye and Miller to an already potent offense will do wonders for this squad.

 

If the suns can win 50 games a season by being a terrible defense, what makes the Wizards so different? I've already explained the talent level, the chemistry is there, we finally have a successful coach, what is left?

 

And you expect me to believe for 7 games, Derrick Rose can keep attacking the basket at will and win the series single handedly? You expect me to believe he took the Celtics to 7 games by himself? So those Ben Gordon game winners meant nothing to you? The Bulls had a great supporting cast, and oh yeah, the Celtics best defender wasn't playing for your information.

 

Derrick Rose needs to learn how to be a closer before he can even consider being a dominant player in this league, until he proves me that, there is no way I believe he can take over a full series.

[Real Deal]

The Suns had Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire. The first two, separately, are better than any two on the Wizards combined.

 

You seem to forget that Arenas isn't in his prime. He's changing his persona. Why? Because he's not in his prime. He's not going to be that 30 PPG scorer anymore. He's not going to attract that much attention. His workouts are being cut down because...well, yeah, he's not in his prime.

 

This reminds me of those Caron Butler for MVP arguments a couple of years back. You really think the Wizards are going to stir it up in the East? Well, good for you.

[AboveLegit]

Steve Nash and Amare are better than Arenas, Jamison, and Butler? Since when? Jamison puts up better numbers then Amare, both play no defense, and you still believe Amare is better?

 

Last time I checked, Gil was only 27, that's when most players begin to enter their prime. We established the fact that Arenas does still have a lot in him, he barely lost a step, many people, including players outside the Wizards organization have said he's back 100%, yet you believe otherwise? Unlike you, those players watched him play live, so there's no doubt in my mind Gil will be playing at an All Star level based on what guys like LeBron James have been saying.

 

See, there you go bringing up things in the past, it means nothing. And I laugh at that statement, who would ever argue Caron for MVP? I don't know one real Wizards fan who believed that, please tell me when this occurred.

[billt chamberlain]

lol i read all 4 of these pages. wow. lof ot hate going on in here directed towards the wizards. for everyone that says gil has never been unguardable, i'd bet anything that if you could somehow talk to your favorite teams coach in 06 a few days before playing the wizards they had a gameplan in place just to try and slow down gilbert alone. fact is, gilbert dropped his career high against the best(regarded by most) pg/sg defender at the time in kobe bryant, so for you to overlook that is ludicrous. i know the suns have never been a good defensive team, but a few days later gilbert dropped 54 points on the suns with acclaimed defenders raja bell and shawn marion checking him throughout the whole game.

 

 

i'd venture to say that most of the doubters on here have never really seen gil play besides a few nationally televised games or games in which he played against your favorite team. fact of the matter is whether you like it or not his last healthy season in the nba he was in the top 3 mvp talks along with golden boy kobe. and before you say he fell off after teh allstar break that year, keep in mind he had an injury to his neck/shoulder area that severely threw off how he performed on the court.

 

 

just for funs sake i can pull up the video in which gil breaks kobe down like a rookie on two plays. but keep in mind im just using kobe because at that time period many people considered him the best perimeter defender for pg/sg's(you could say ron artest or ben wallace but they are more geared to towards forwards). and i know anyone player can be broke down in the nba.

Edited October 1, 2009 by billt chamberlain

[billt chamberlain]

also, its like most of you are wishing that gil can't regain form. what kind of basketball fans are you? take away the bias, and admit that even thought its not textbook, you'd like to see a pg that can score with the best sg and forwards in the league, and at the same time not be afraid to get into the lane and draw contact. if you look at the wizards the past few years adn assess injuries and how long they linger you can realize that our medical staff isn't the best in that department. i'll say it now, butler has not been the same player since his hip flexor two seasons ago. but gilbert has worked with tim grover this offseason and is supposedly back to form. this is the same guy that worked with d.wade and allowed him to come back at full strength and turn around that crappy heat team(yet you think arenas can't with two other all stars). when he first startd rehabbing with grover, gil could only lift like 50 lb's on his injured leg, but now he can do a few hundred, so that right there shows something....

if you look at his games from last season, gil's passing and awareness are still there, its just his timing was off, and now that seems to be fixed with all the rehabbing.

[Real Deal]

Steve Nash and Amare are better than Arenas, Jamison, and Butler? Since when? Jamison puts up better numbers then Amare, both play no defense, and you still believe Amare is better?

Uh, yeah? I hope to God you're joking. Jamison doesn't even touch Amare Stoudemire, and everyone on this board will tell you that.

[Real Deal]

Yeah, I watched the game that Gilbert scored 60 on the Lakers. Kobe was in foul trouble when he had to defend him. In fact, he wasn't defending him much at all until that final quarter, when he had his five fouls.

 

But you can mention that 60 all you want. Just don't forget that Arenas is a career .419 shooter against Bryant, while Bryant has lit him up for a career .485 in all matchups against Arenas.

 

Gilbert is certainly unstoppable.

 

yet you think arenas can't with two other all stars

...he didn't, in 2005-06. Jamison was there, Butler was there...and both were putting up All-Star numbers (21/9 and 18/6, respectively).

 

So...just 45 wins for a team with two all-stars in Butler and Jamison and an "unstoppable" guard in Gilbert Arenas, all healthy? Haha, well, something is wrong.

 

The criticism is warranted. All Gilbert has proven to me is that he can't win over 45 games in a season, despite having two all-star teammates (one being better than Amare Stoudemire, lol).

 

Here's to you guys winning 70 this upcoming season. Michael Jordan (unstoppable), Amare Stoudemire (Jamison) and LeBron James (MVP Butler) could win 70, so I can only expect the best out of this underrated squad.

[fish7718]

Lol @ Arenas has grown up. Yet he tells the organization it's their fault that he got injured again yet he was the one rushing back from injuries. If the guy can't even take blame for his own mistakes what makes you think he's grown up? BTW those comments were said about two weeks ago. He will be running his month and blogging again within the first month of the NBA season guaranteed.

 

I agree with RD as well. Rose's forte last season was to drive and dish to Salmons and Gordon all day. Obviously it worked. Derrick Rose would be excellent in this offense coming off pick and rolls with a crashing D finding the open shooters. He doesn't need to averaged 28 and 6 and 3+ turnovers he need's to average 14 and 9 and he would.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Fish7718

[AboveLegit]

Uh, yeah? I hope to God you're joking. Jamison doesn't even touch Amare Stoudemire, and everyone on this board will tell you that.

I hope to God you're joking. You can't show me one thing that makes Amare so much better. Jamison is the better rebounder, scorer, much higher IQ, better fundamentals, and scores much easier. Jamison is easily one of the most overlooked player in the league, as for Amare, let's just say some people like to overrate him after looking at a few All Star Games and his flashy dunks.

[Real Deal]

I hope to God you're joking. You can't show me one thing that makes Amare so much better. Jamison is the better rebounder, scorer, much higher IQ, better fundamentals, and scores much easier. Jamison is easily one of the most overlooked player in the league, as for Amare, let's just say some people like to overrate him after looking at a few All Star Games and his flashy dunks.

Haha.

 

Amare has a higher career rebounding average. He's got the higher scoring average (also averaged over 25 PPG twice, something Jamison hasn't done). Jamison's FG% for his career is at .456, falling way short of Amare's .541 career average. Amare has reached over 50% from the field in four of six seasons (50 games or more played), which includes a 59% FG performance. Jamison has hit it once in nine.

 

So mark off rebounding and scoring, and "scores much easier" from your list.

 

Better fundamentals? Well, not for a big man, sorry to say it. But if you want to just compare overall, dropping the fact that Jamison plays like a F/G, then probably so...but in that regard, Kirk Hinrich has more fundamentals than Jamison does, so I have no idea where you want to go with that.

 

Amare is a true big that has tried to incorporate a shot in his game. Jamison is a small forward who has only incorporated a shot in his game. While Amare has displayed he can guard guys like Tim Duncan very well, I'm not quite sure Antawn Jamison can guard anyone that well...and he's notorious among non-Wizards fans for not even putting out the defensive effort.

 

Jamison isn't that good, or else he and the GOAT (Arenas) would've been a much, much better team, and Jamison wouldn't have choked in two matchups against the Cavaliers in the playoffs already (and if you need playoff statistics, I'll show you just how much better Amare has performed against top players as well).

 

Amare is a franchise player. Jamison is a second or third fiddle. That's all there is to it.

[AboveLegit]

Haha.

 

Amare has a higher career rebounding average. He's got the higher scoring average (also averaged over 25 PPG twice, something Jamison hasn't done). Jamison's FG% for his career is at .456, falling way short of Amare's .541 career average. Amare has reached over 50% from the field in four of six seasons (50 games or more played), which includes a 59% FG performance. Jamison has hit it once in nine.

 

So mark off rebounding and scoring, and "scores much easier" from your list.

 

Better fundamentals? Well, not for a big man, sorry to say it. But if you want to just compare overall, dropping the fact that Jamison plays like a F/G, then probably so...but in that regard, Kirk Hinrich has more fundamentals than Jamison does, so I have no idea where you want to go with that.

 

Amare is a true big that has tried to incorporate a shot in his game. Jamison is a small forward who has only incorporated a shot in his game. While Amare has displayed he can guard guys like Tim Duncan very well, I'm not quite sure Antawn Jamison can guard anyone that well...and he's notorious among non-Wizards fans for not even putting out the defensive effort.

 

Jamison isn't that good, or else he and the GOAT (Arenas) would've been a much, much better team, and Jamison wouldn't have choked in two matchups against the Cavaliers in the playoffs already (and if you need playoff statistics, I'll show you just how much better Amare has performed against top players as well).

 

Amare is a franchise player. Jamison is a second or third fiddle. That's all there is to it.

 

Do you watch Jamison? Or are you just assuming he plays like a SF/G because of what others have stated about him? Jamison plays in the paint very well, he's not best known for his midrange game, he's known for his circus shots, his hooks, and turn around jumpers in the paint, that's what he makes a living off of. So you can scratch off fundamentals off your list.

 

Then you add that to the fact that he can score in a variety of ways, something Amare is only progressing at. Jamison is a superior shooter, Amare has a very limited back to the basket game, and feeds off of the pick and roll system in Phoenix. And you know why he scores more than Jamison....He gets more opportunities to score, he's in the perfect system, and oh yeah, has one of the greatest passers of all time right feeding him the rock whenever he pleases.

 

As a second/third option, the same year Gil exploded for 29ppg and Butler put in 17ppg, Jamison consistently averaged 21ppg in all 82 games of the regular season. Amare averaged 26ppg two years ago as the first option, the same year Nash averaged 11apg, in the 2nd best offense in the league. And there was no question Amare was the clear cut first option, because Shaq was injured the majority of the season, and Marion was shipped off to Miami.

 

And would you bring up Kirk Hinrich? Both Amare and Jamison are big men while Kirk is a PG? That has no relevance to this topic at all. Jamison simply has the superior skillset, can get it done much easier on offense, and ha the better fundamentals in the paint. There is no questioning that if you watch Antawn play.

 

Amare is a true big? Since when? I don't know what you're definition of a true big man is, but in my mind, you have to be at least an above average defender (which Amare is not), and you have to have a good back to the basket game (which Amare does not utilize in his game). Amare is apart of that new breed of athletic big men, which features the likes of Dwight Howard, they have very little fundamentals and intangibles in their skillsets, and feed off of pure athleticism to score. The difference? A true big can score with his back to the basket, implement fundamentals into his game to make scoring easier, has to have a higher basketball IQ than the average defender, and should be consistent on the defensive end.

 

And way to stick in the "Amare is a franchise player" statement, it was clear since the beginning of Jamison's career he would be a role player and a sixth man at best, yet he exceeded expectations and became an All Star. Obviously Amare is a franchise player, he's young, and has a ton of potential, but at this point in his career, he is not better than Jamison. Do I think Amare will beat out Jamison later on in his career? Of course, but right now you're comparing a seasoned vet who knows how the game is played and doesn't need statistics to base his legacy off of with a player who is still developing an offensive game. It's funny, because while Jamison is above the age of 30, he's still able to consistently player at an All Star level and play the majority of the games in the regular season, Amare is only 27 and already he is struggling to play consistently throughout the season.

[Real Deal]

So, wait, you said that true bigs need to play defense, you call Amare anything BUT a true big, then you throw Dwight Howard into that category?

 

Yeah, I've seen Jamison play. I've watched almost every NBA game I can for the last 2-3 years (minus the month or two I was blind) with League Pass.

 

If Amare isn't a big man, Jamison doesn't even get CLOSE.

 

This might be one of the wildest things I've ever debated. How about asking everyone on this site who the better player is? And while you're at it, go to RealGM with it as well. You'll find that Jamison doesn't get close to being a better player than Amare, and Stoudemire doesn't need 11 seasons to prove it.

 

Giving me the fact that Nash was his teammate...you might as well scratch that off, since Gilbert used to be unstoppable (according to you).

 

Like I said, if Jamison is that good, Gilbert will be unstoppable, and Caron Butler is an all-star (he is), then with the addition of Mike Miller and Randy Foye, a new and better coach, you guys better be a top three team in the East, or else none of those guys are as good as advertised.

 

I can't wait. Jamison better than Amare? Arenas unstoppable? Oh man...just one more month.

[AboveLegit]

Whoa Brandon, hold up a second. When did I say Gil was unstoppable. I backed him up, but please show me a post in which I said he was unstoppable.

 

And no, I didn't say Dwight was a true big man, I said he's apart of the new breed of big men in this league that feed off of pure athleticism. And that's exactly right.

 

So far you've shown nothing to me proving that Amare is the better player. I'm all for proving people wrong, but I especially like getting proven wrong, and you've done that to me on a number of occasions, so if you can do so here, I'll be perfectly cool with it. I don't join forums so I can show off my knowledge, I'm not as smart as 70% of this board, so anytime I get a chance to learn more about the game, I'm more than happy in accepting it.

[fish7718]

Whoa Brandon, hold up a second. When did I say Gil was unstoppable. I backed him up, but please show me a post in which I said he was unstoppable.

LMAO you've been saying it since this whole discussion began. Arenas said "Nobody can guard me" if no one guard him he is unstoppable. That's why his comments are ridiculous.