Erick Blasco's Top 30 NBA Small Forwards

[Erick Blasco]

The small forward position is the most diverse position in the NBA, mainly because the job descriptions of small forwards vary with each of the NBA’s thirty franchises.

 

Rashard Lewis is asked to put up points from the outside, Corey Maggette does the brunt of his work inside, while Luol Deng is a mid-range maestro. Ron Artest and Paul Pierce are ferocious two-way players who dominate both ends of the court, while Kevin Durant specializes in offense and Tayshaun Prince’s priority is defense.

 

Hedo Turkoglu does his best work with the ball in his hands, Matt Harpring is at his best with the ball not in his hands, and Trevor Ariza is adept at causing the ball to change hands.

 

This list does not take into account a player’s future prospects or past salad days. The criteria is simple: Which NBA center would be best suited to winning a championship with a random collection of starting-level talent. For example, if Andris Biedrins, Pau Gasol, Joe Johnson, and Beno Udrih are your teammates, who would you want as your small forward?

 

Due to the way some NBA lineups are presently constructed, a handful of potential small forwards will be asked to play different positions this year. For that reason, Boris Diaw is listed as a power forward, while Shane Battier, Andre Iguodala, Josh Howard, and Stephen Jackson are considered shooting guards.

 

No rookies made the list, as neither you nor I have seen them play in meaningful games against meaningful competition to know where they should be ranked.

 

With the formalities over and done with, the list.

 

1) LeBron James—Cleveland Cavaliers

 

An awesome combination of speed and power, LeBron is a force unlike any other in NBA history. Sure, other great wings have shared his phenomenal athleticism, but Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Julius Irving, and Kobe Bryant can’t simply run through people, and Karl Malone can’t run and jump the way LeBron can.

 

What’s more, James has taken it upon himself to work on his defensive game, which is leaps and bounds better than it was at this point two years ago. He’s an unselfish star, an almost unstoppable force, and has the potential to rewrite NBA history books before his career is over.

 

The frightening part is that James can still improve so much.

 

His post skills are shockingly rudimentary for a player with his size and strength. James also tends to massage the ball too long in pressure situations, his jump shot is streaky, and he has almost no mid-range game to speak of.

 

Plus, while James’ defense is very good, he still tends to play too off-balanced where quick players can attack his first step or change direction on him far too easily. This, among other reasons, is why Rafer Alston scored with so much ease during the Eastern Conference Finals, and why conversations imploring James as the best defender in the NBA are totally bogus.

 

Still, considering James’ defensive improvement the past two years, it’s fair to expect similar strides to be made this year. He’s already easily the best small forward in the game. If he continues to add to his repertoire, he might become one of the best players of all-time.

 

2) Paul Pierce—Boston Celtics

 

There are a couple of reasons why Pierce takes the two spot away from Carmelo Anthony. One, while Anthony is certainly clutch, he has an alarming habit of disappearing against good teams in the postseason, as he did over the final five games in Denver’s series against the Lakers. Contrast this with Pierce who steps his game up in the playoffs.

 

Secondly, while Pierce and Anthony are both adept at being their teams’ top scorers and top playmakers, Pierce doubles as Boston’s perimeter defensive stopper while Anthony’s defense isn’t up to par. If Carmelo’s the better raw scorer, Pierce is more reliable in huge games.

 

3) Carmelo Anthony—Denver Nuggets

 

Anthony is right on the cusp of greatness. His ability to put the ball in the basket is phenomenal, he’s reliable late in games, and his shot selection is worlds better since Chauncey Billups arrived in Denver. If only he’d stop checking himself out of contests when a defense prevents him from simply showing up and dominating. The ability to transcend great opposing defensive gameplans is what’s holding him down from being an MVP-caliber superstar.

 

4) Ron Artest—Los Angeles Lakers

 

Rough and rugged, Artest is a monster near the basket since he’s simply too strong for most opposing wings to handle. He can also knock down standstill threes, occasionally can create offense off the dribble, and is one of the three best perimeter defenders in the game.

 

Artest will tend to make brainless decisions on both ends of the court—gambling for steals on defense, while dribbling away the shot clock on offense—and he isn’t reliable under pressure situations. Still, he’s one of the finest two-way players in the league regardless of position.

5) Caron Butler—Washington Wizards

 

Butler’s defense slipped last year as he was asked to carry more of an offensive role for Washington, but you can count on Butler to use his quick hands to rip away steals by the bushel while scoring timely baskets on offense. Butler is a below average shooter, and he doesn’t have the raw talent to single-handedly take over games, but because he’s tough, athletic, and hard-working, he constantly makes plays at both ends of the court.

 

6) Kevin Durant—Oklahoma City Thunder

 

Even with only two seasons in the league, Durant has already proven to be an explosive scorer. His shooting stroke is flawless, and because of his 6’9” height, his jumper is seldom contested.

 

Besides having a superior jump shot, Durant is also a gifted athlete, with a dynamite first step, the ability to leap small buildings, and the wingspan of a pterosaur. There’s no doubt that Durant is the league’s next gifted scorer.

 

Where can Durant improve? He’s still too frail to be a dominant scorer in the paint, his defensive instincts are poor, and he doesn’t have much of a back-to-the-basket game. His passwork and court awareness also aren’t up to snuff. But if Durant’s body fills out the way it should, and if he continues to learn from his mistakes, he’ll put up prodigious numbers for at least a decade.

 

7) Danny Granger—Indiana Pacers

 

Last season, Granger showed that he’s a pure point-producer from near, far, and anywhere in between, though he does most of his work from the perimeter. He’s a tough cover because he’s bigger than most shooting guards, and faster than most forwards. His next step is improving his defense to make him a complete player.

 

8) Richard Jefferson—San Antonio Spurs

 

Jefferson’s an interesting case study because of his uneven career. When asked to be a team’s major scorer he’s responded by taking plays off defensively and lounging around the perimeter. When Jefferson’s been a supporting option, he’s played ferocious defense, and smart, fearless offense. Given that he’s once again surrounded by elite talent, it’s fair to expect to see the Jefferson from the Nets’ championship runs, as opposed to the average star who’s stagnated the past several seasons.

 

9) Gerald Wallace—Charlotte Bobcats

Wallace can run, jump, score, and defend making him an extremely valuable commodity. He’s not a good enough scorer to carry a team, mostly because he’s an erratic jump shooter, but would be an exceptional complementary. Defensively, Wallace uses his quick feet and quicker hands to intercept any wayward pass or dribble in his vicinity. Plus, he’s a solid positional defender who doesn’t have to brazenly gamble to make a defensive impact. Consider Wallace the Bobcats’ version of Caron Butler.

 

10) Hedo Turkoglu—Toronto Raptors

 

Turkoglu’s a gifted playmaker, an accurate shooter, and one of the game’s most clutch performers when a contest’s final seconds are trickling down. Turkoglu’s exceptional at reading screens and punishing opponents that aren’t coordinated in their defense. Because of Turkoglu’s 6’10’ height, he can simply shoot over most defenses, and a tricky first step, combined with his length, allows him to beat defenders to the rim.

 

All this being said, Turkoglu isn’t a gifted athlete and can be slowed down one-on-one by quick perimeter defenders. Also, good screen defense limits his effectiveness popping off picks to shoot, drive, or pass. Plus, since he isn’t particularly athletic or strong, he’s a deficient defender.

 

Despite those deficiencies, Turkoglu is a terrific playmaker. Without Dwight Howard setting crushing screens, and three-point shooters enveloping the perimeter, it’ll be a wonder to see just how creative Turkoglu is, though, without the perfect system for him.

 

11) Rashard Lewis—Orlando Magic

 

A mad bomber extraordinaire, Lewis has the capability to sink the opposition under a deluge of three-balls. If the flood gates aren’t opening for Lewis from downtown, he’s a capable slasher who can also post up, and who has become a hard-working defender.

 

Lewis’ offense is very streaky and he’ll turn into a missing person if his shooting hand isn’t running hot. His defense, while improved, isn’t anything special, and he goes through too many dry spells offensively to be a superstar. Lewis is a very good player, but he hasn’t been worth the exorbitant $118 million contract the Magic shelled out for him.

 

12) Shawn Marion—Dallas Mavericks

 

While Marion built his reputation as a scorer in Phoenix’ free-flowing seven-seconds-or-less offense, his best attribute is his ability to play strong individual defense against most small forwards, and some power forwards and shooting guards.

 

Marion’s effectiveness has declined the past few seasons because he can’t find a way to fit into halfcourt systems. His inability to succeed in the halfcourt keeps him out of the top ten.

 

13) Tayshaun Prince—Detroit Pistons

One of the premier wing defenders in the business, Prince’s wingspan swallows up the majority of the players he’s assigned to guard. If Prince has a defensive weakness, he’s not particularly strong, so scorers with muscle can go through him, instead of the nigh-impossible task of trying to get around him.

 

Offensively, Prince can handle, shoot, and has a left hook he likes to put up from the right box, though his calling card is clearly on the defensive end.

 

14) Andrei Kirilenko—Utah Jazz

 

Kirilenko may be the most versatile player in the NBA. His length makes him a good on-ball defender, and his athleticism allows him to be an ace shot-blocker, steals-generator, and finisher in the open court.

 

He’s an able rebounder, passer, slasher, and shooter as well, sampling statistical categories for his box score, the way wine-tasters sample new bottles. A glass of rebounds here, a sip of blocked shots there, Kirilenko’s penchant for filling up different stat categories plays to his all-around utility on the court.

 

Unfortunately, besides playing long-armed defense, there aren’t many things in which Kirilenko excels at. He’s not a particularly tough defender, he’s not an exceptional offensive player in any category, and most damning of all, he has a reputation of not competing with games on the line.

 

Kirilenko’s confidence wavers too easily, preventing him from being a special player, and preventing the Jazz from being a special team.

 

15) Wilson Chandler—New York Knicks

 

Chandler is the real deal. He’s a prime time athlete that can handle and finish, he makes good decisions with the ball, and plays above average defense considering New York’s laissez faire attitude on that end of the court. With more experience and more confidence, Chandler could easily become a twenty-point scorer.

 

16) James Posey—New Orleans Hornets

 

Posey’s a tough, rugged defender, probably the best in the business at roughing up perimeter scorers and throwing them off their game. He’s also one of the most clutch playoff shooters of recent history, with his big-time shot making helping to capture two titles this decade.

 

As Posey approaches his 33rd birthday, his quickness has lost a step, preventing him from being able to hang with speed guards on the perimeter. Worst, Posey has a bad habit of not playing as hard after successful seasons, reasons why his defense has regressed every other year since his breakout 2003-2004 campaign.

 

Posey’s still a very good defender because of his strength and attitude, but he’s beginning to show signs of slippage.

 

17) Trevor Ariza—Houston Rockets

 

Ariza’s emergence during last year’s postseason was a boon to the Lakers’ championship hopes. He has tremendous length, quickness, and defensive instincts, which allow him to defend quicker, faster players, and to pick up steals when defenses get careless.

 

He showed himself to be a reliable three-point shooter during the postseason, though it’s difficult to know if he’s evolved into a knock-down shooter, or if it was an aberration considering his career three-point percentage is under 30 percent.

 

Ariza’s not a good defender against power scorers, he’s not capable of creating offense off the drive, and if his shooting in last year’s postseason was an anomaly, he doesn’t provide anything offensively besides a high-flying runner and cutter.

 

Ariza’s definitely an interesting subject—this season will be a strong indicator as to how good he really is.

 

18) Rudy Gay—Memphis Grizzlies

 

Gay can run, jump, and score in a broken field, but he’s lost defensively, has no clue as how to play structured offense, and is an inefficient scorer with no idea how to play without the ball in his hands. There’s a lot of style, but very little substance to his game.

 

19) Mickael Pietrus—Orlando Magic

 

Pietrus is a talented athlete who can knock down threes, fill lanes, and defend exceptionally well. Focus has been the biggest detriment to his career, but the older he gets, the wiser he becomes. He still needs to improve his court vision, as he often panics when he dribbles, not trusting his ability to see the court and make proper passes. But Pietrus is one of the game’s better two-way players.

 

20) Luol Deng—Chicago Bulls

 

Injuries have curtailed the past two seasons of Deng’s career, preventing from fully blossoming into his full potential. He doesn’t have all-NBA range, and he’s not a terrific finisher or defender. Instead, he has an advanced mid-range game with good touch on his jumper and cleverness when driving to the hoop. He doesn’t get to the free throw line very much though, which hurts him as a designated scorer, and he hasn’t been a defensive factor at any point in his career. Coming off a fractured leg, it’s fair to expect a drop in Deng’s athleticism and offensive production.

 

21) Thaddeus Young—Philadelphia 76ers

 

As Young grows and matures, it’s clear to see the potential he has. He’s an athletic slasher and finisher who isn’t afraid to take big shots. He’s also a respectable defender, though he’s a surprisingly poor shot blocker. As time goes on, expect him to creep farther and farther up the top small forwards list.

 

22) Jarvis Hayes—New Jersey Nets

Hayes is a tough, veteran two-way player who plays hard-nosed positional defense and hits timely threes on offense. After a disappointing season in Detroit, Hayes responded by playing the best ball of his career in his first season in New Jersey. With his defensive pedigree and ability to knock down triples, his skills are best suited to a winning team than the rebuilding Nets.

 

23) Michael Beasley—Miami Heat

 

After an underwhelming rookie campaign, Beasley will take over a new position as a small forward in 2009. Beasley has a quick first step and great size (6’9”) for a combo forward, and his three-point shooting as a rookie was exceptional.

 

Now it’s just a matter of Beasley putting his talent together and improving his basketball IQ. He has no idea how to play defense because he was never asked to play any defense in high school or at Kansas State. Because of that, Beasley had to spend the majority of his rookie campaign coming off the bench or else Miami’s defensive identity would be compromised.

 

Beasley is also a selfish scorer, as once he goes into attack mode on offense, he won’t give the ball up no matter how improbable his chance of scoring becomes.

 

However, despite being asked to come off the bench, Beasley took it all in stride and genuinely seems to care to improve his game.

 

As he continues to improve his awareness, work harder on his weaknesses, and get his personal life in order, we should see Beasley quickly climbing up the small forward charts.

 

24) Al Thornton—Los Angeles Clippers

 

Thornton’s a volume scorer who can’t pass or defend. He is capable of huge performances, but he needs to be more consistent and well-rounded. His talent is unquestioned, and his future is bright, but teams with inefficient volume scorers usually don’t accomplish very much.

 

25) Grant Hill—Phoenix Suns

 

Hill is still an effective scorer between the three-point line, whether he’s running the break, hitting mid-range jumpers, or driving along the baseline to score. He’s never been a good defender and his aversion to playing a grind-it-out defensive style is reported to be one of the main components that led to the Terry Porter firing. Hill still has a bit of game and a lot of wisdom to offer, but he’s past the point of being a difference maker on a championship-caliber team.

 

26) Travis Outlaw—Portland Trail Blazers

 

Freakishly athletic, Outlaw’s mastered his pet move—a step back jumper from the right wing that’s unguardable unless gameplanned for. However, Outlaw’s too soft, and his bag of tricks are too limited for him to be effective when his step-backs are taken away.

27) Corey Maggette—Golden State Warriors

 

Besides having one of the more ridiculous basketball nicknames (Uh-Oh-Maggettios!), Maggette’s best known for hogging the ball, committing turnovers, sleepwalking on defense, and displaying sloppy fundamentals. Shame, because with his strength, talent, and ability to outmuscle opponents on drives and cuts, he’s a bear of a scorer.

 

28) Ryan Gomes—Minnesota Timberwolves

 

While he doesn‘t possess a huge amount of talent, Gomes does a lot of things well. He’s a good ball mover, a capable point-maker, and an earnest defender. He plays hard, and he plays smart—talents that would shine through on a more veteran team.

 

29) Marvin Williams—Atlanta Hawks

 

After four seasons in the league, Williams still hasn’t found a niche. He’s more athletic than most fours, but as a three he’s only average. No matter what position assigned to him, he’s soft and has an inconsistent jumper. With the way the Hawks get up and down the court, his athleticism allows him to make plays here and there, but when he’s forced to slow down, he struggles. A mediocre player, Williams wouldn’t start on most teams in the league.

30) Matt Harpring—Utah Jazz

 

A Rhino disguised as a football player, Harpring’s made a career of playing harder than his opponents. Nobody cuts harder away from the ball, and he won’t give an inch defensively. He is also a reliable mid-range jump shooter popping off of screens and can score in the post.

 

Knee and ankle ailments wrecked his 2008-2009 season, and may cause him to retire before this season starts. Even when healthy, Harpring is only average athletically. Still, if he does call it quits, the NBA will lose one of the toughest players in the entire league.

 

 

This article first appeared on ballerblogger.com

Edited October 2, 2009 by Erick Blasco

[Real Deal]

I can't say that Ron Artest is a better three than Kevin Durant and Danny Granger. As a primary option, Artest is a complete failure on offense, which hurts his defense significantly if the team he's playing for isn't relying on the zone 80% of the time.

 

My top five would be:

 

1) LeBron

2) Pierce

3) Melo

4) Durant

5) Granger

 

After that, it would change each time I made a list. But...I just can't put Ron that high.

[Erick Blasco]

I can't say that Ron Artest is a better three than Kevin Durant and Danny Granger. As a primary option, Artest is a complete failure on offense, which hurts his defense significantly if the team he's playing for isn't relying on the zone 80% of the time.

 

My top five would be:

 

1) LeBron

2) Pierce

3) Melo

4) Durant

5) Granger

 

After that, it would change each time I made a list. But...I just can't put Ron that high.

 

Ouch! A complete failure on offense? That's an awfully harsh statement for a player who can score in the post and is a reliable standstill three-point shooter.

[Big Penny]

my top 10 would be:

 

1. LeBron James

2. Carmello Anthony

3. Paul Pierce

4. Kevin Durant

5. Danny Granger

6. Caron Butler

7. Ron Artest

8. Hedo Turkoglu

9. Rashard Lewis

10. Gerald Wallace

 

i wouldnt call ron artest a complete failiure, but hes better suited as a 2nd/3rd option (like he will be in LA)

[Real Deal]

Ouch! A complete failure on offense? That's an awfully harsh statement for a player who can score in the post and is a reliable standstill three-point shooter.

He's a reliable shooter when someone creates for him. Otherwise, he's pretty good at chucking and missing shots.

 

As the primary option on a team (what he was every now and then in Sacramento and sometimes in Houston), he's an liability on offense.

 

Artest is best off as a third scoring option, arguably second (as he was in Indiana). That's why I believe he will thrive in the Lakers' offense, as Ariza did.

 

But Artest is no franchise player, and Durant and Granger are, and that's the difference between the three.

[Revis Island]

Durant and Granger comfortable ahead of Artest and Melo should be ahead of Pierce, at this point Melo has surpassed him.

[Zero]

Harping over Battier?

[Mac Dre]

granger and durant are easily better than artest. ask anyone, almost everyone here would prefer granger/durant over artest.

[Erick Blasco]

He's a reliable shooter when someone creates for him. Otherwise, he's pretty good at chucking and missing shots.

 

As the primary option on a team (what he was every now and then in Sacramento and sometimes in Houston), he's an liability on offense.

 

Artest is best off as a third scoring option, arguably second (as he was in Indiana). That's why I believe he will thrive in the Lakers' offense, as Ariza did.

 

But Artest is no franchise player, and Durant and Granger are, and that's the difference between the three.

 

If you put Durant on a playoff team, opponents would post him and post him and post him. Plus little things like fighting through screens he can't do. Whichever team has him is losing a lot of defense. And Durant is still essentially just a jump shooter. He does bring much to the table in terms of finishing through contact, passing, or posting up. Granger's the same way. They give up almost as much as they take.

 

Artest's no build-around-me player, but not all of those kinds of players are the kinds of players who get consistent results in the playoffs.

[Erick Blasco]

Durant and Granger comfortable ahead of Artest and Melo should be ahead of Pierce, at this point Melo has surpassed him.

 

When Melo faces an opposing team on par with, or above, Denver's level of talent and he has a string of good playoff games/4th quarters, let me know.

[Erick Blasco]

Harping over Battier?

 

Battier's going to start at the 2 for Houston this year like he did last year.

[Real Deal]

If you put Durant on a playoff team, opponents would post him and post him and post him. Plus little things like fighting through screens he can't do. Whichever team has him is losing a lot of defense. And Durant is still essentially just a jump shooter. He does bring much to the table in terms of finishing through contact, passing, or posting up. Granger's the same way. They give up almost as much as they take.

 

Artest's no build-around-me player, but not all of those kinds of players are the kinds of players who get consistent results in the playoffs.

So you're telling me that the Lakers have a better chance of winning a ring with Artest than they do if they swapped him with Durant?

 

I think Durant would be the better second or third option, let alone primary option.

 

To me, the gap between Ron and Kevin's defensive abilities isn't as large as the gap between their offensive abilities, and that's why Durant takes it for me.

 

As far as Granger goes, he's almost as good as Artest defensively, and his offense is much better...so, truthfully, I COULD put Granger ahead of Durant, even.

 

I'll say this much: if we want to consider defense as important as an offensive superstar, Artest beats out everyone on this list besides LeBron James. And in that stance, Bruce Bowen (if still playing) would be a top five or six.

 

I can't say any of that is true, though.

[Erick Blasco]

Bowen's defense dropped off hard last year so he's not the best example. Granger's a very poor defender.

 

It's not just defense but also the ability to post and score near the basket. Artest is a monster inside and will draw doubles from the post. Granger and Durant have to do everything from the perimeter. It's hard for a jump shooter to take over a string of playoff games if he's not built to score inside.

 

Artest can take the pounding on offense and dish it on defense. Durant and Granger can't.

 

Swap Durant with Artest and suddenly the Lakers have a very vulnerable perimeter defense. Kobe doesn't play hard on defense all the time. Who'd stop the Spurs wings? Or Denver? Or Dallas during the regular season? Or Phoenix? Yeah the Lakers would score, but they'd lose track meet games they have no business losing.

 

Just shoving offense onto a court isn't good enough, how have recent Dallas and Phoenix teams done in the playoffs?

[Real Deal]

Granger is a very poor defender? I gotta disagree, more on that than anything else in this topic. Granger's perimeter defense is pretty good. He came out of UNM playing very good defense, and adjusted well in his rookie season in the pros.

 

And the Lakers made it all the way to the NBA Finals without Ariza or Artest. In fact, I wouldn't call Ariza that good of a defensive player. His gambling paid off, but locking someone down is something he had trouble doing, against both Carmelo and Turkoglu, notably when it mattered most.

 

The Lakers have enough up front to get to the Finals and win it all without Artest or Ariza, as long as Bynum stays healthy. Bryant's help defense has been better than his man defense because, quite frankly, the defensive lapses of Fisher and guys like Walton are negated by Kobe's help. Giving up a three here and there (which is what Kobe does) isn't that big of a deal if he's running over to disrupt a Billups three with little left on the shot clock.

 

There is not one GM in the league that would think twice about an Artest/Durant swap, if they had Ron, even if the contracts for both were just a year long.

 

If defense was THAT important, the Charlotte Bobcats would be world champs. The problem is, they don't have any offense, and that's the reason teams like the Mavericks and Suns have gotten to the Finals and Conference Finals, while the Bobcats struggle to win 40 games.

 

But yeah, the combo wins it all. But an extraordinarily-potent offensive team, with good defense, will win it all before an extraordinarily-gifted defensive team, with good offense, takes it. See the 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers for another good example of this.

[Big Penny]

When Melo faces an opposing team on par with, or above, Denver's level of talent and he has a string of good playoff games/4th quarters, let me know.

if melo had KG, Allen and Rondo i bet he could

[His Greatness]

This is probably your most accurate list, but dude you overrated Artest, and despite Gay's many vices, he's too talented to be ranked that low.

[MainEv3nt]

no josh howard?

[His Greatness]

Read the beginning of the article, people.

[Erick Blasco]

Granger is a very poor defender? I gotta disagree, more on that than anything else in this topic. Granger's perimeter defense is pretty good. He came out of UNM playing very good defense, and adjusted well in his rookie season in the pros.

 

And the Lakers made it all the way to the NBA Finals without Ariza or Artest. In fact, I wouldn't call Ariza that good of a defensive player. His gambling paid off, but locking someone down is something he had trouble doing, against both Carmelo and Turkoglu, notably when it mattered most.

 

The Lakers have enough up front to get to the Finals and win it all without Artest or Ariza, as long as Bynum stays healthy. Bryant's help defense has been better than his man defense because, quite frankly, the defensive lapses of Fisher and guys like Walton are negated by Kobe's help. Giving up a three here and there (which is what Kobe does) isn't that big of a deal if he's running over to disrupt a Billups three with little left on the shot clock.

 

There is not one GM in the league that would think twice about an Artest/Durant swap, if they had Ron, even if the contracts for both were just a year long.

 

If defense was THAT important, the Charlotte Bobcats would be world champs. The problem is, they don't have any offense, and that's the reason teams like the Mavericks and Suns have gotten to the Finals and Conference Finals, while the Bobcats struggle to win 40 games.

 

But yeah, the combo wins it all. But an extraordinarily-potent offensive team, with good defense, will win it all before an extraordinarily-gifted defensive team, with good offense, takes it. See the 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers for another good example of this.

 

I think Granger can be a good defender, but last season he was very poor on the defensive end. Maybe if Dunleavy comes back healthy and Granger won't have to do everything offensively like he had to last season his defense will pick up. His first couple of years he showed that he can be an okay defender but last year wasn't impressive. The Pacers would've had a few more wins if Granger could've checked his man better late in the fourth.

 

The Lakers two years ago beat Denver and Utah teams that don't play good defense.They didn't need an Artest. Ginobili was hurt for the Spurs series and he makes the Spurs a completely different team. The first time the Lakers faced talented wing player who played on a blanced team was Pierce and Pierce carved up Radmanovic, Walton, and Ariza. If you replace Artest with Radmanovic that series, Pierce probably wouldn't have so many huge buckets and the Celtics might have had trouble scoring.

 

I thought Ariza was fine against Turkoglu as the series progressed. Melo's a different story, but Artest is better equipped to guard with power scorers. That's why I think the Lakers will be much better this year with Artest over Ariza.

 

I'd be a bit careful with the year-long Artest/Durant proposed swap. I think Doc Rivers would favor Artest over Durant, and most ready-made ball clubs needing a little toughness would take Artest. Look at a team like Dallas who really needs an inside scorer and some toughness and who already has perimeter firepower. What exactly would Durant give them that they don't already have?

 

The Bobcats played much better ball after swapping Jason Richardson for Boris Diaw and Raja Bell. The Rockets played much better ball once T-Mac was announced out for the year and Artest and Battier settled in as the two wings. A full season of an integrated Ariza, an improved Gasol and a team-wide commitment did wonders for the Lakers defense.

 

Of course a team with four great defenders and zero scorers won't go very far, but Artest isn't just a specialist. He brings points to the table, something nobody on the Bobcats really can do consistently (or else Gerald Wallace would be in the top 5).

 

You can see the 2007 Warriors as a counter argument to the 2007 Cavs

[Erick Blasco]

This is probably your most accurate list, but dude you overrated Artest, and despite Gay's many vices, he's too talented to be ranked that low.

 

I'm trying to project Gay on a playoff team and I'm just imagining Carmelo posting him over and over and over again while he gets back on offense in the half court, looks around, and clangs a missed jumper.

 

His problem isn't his talent, but since he's played with children his entire Memphis career he really has no idea how to do anything except in a broken field or his jumper is running hot. Maybe if he were closer to 40% from downtown I could bump him up, but I think he and Kevin Martin are two of the most overrated players in the game.

[Erick Blasco]

if melo had KG, Allen and Rondo i bet he could

 

He had J.R. Smith stepping up and firepower all around him. Make a play. How many single-teams in the post did Kobe see in deep playoff fourth quarters? C'mon man, just make a play.

[MainEv3nt]

when u gonna do sg, im curious to see where u put josh howard.

[Jenneral]

Still no Bucks on your list.

[His Greatness]

I'm trying to project Gay on a playoff team and I'm just imagining Carmelo posting him over and over and over again while he gets back on offense in the half court, looks around, and clangs a missed jumper.

 

His problem isn't his talent, but since he's played with children his entire Memphis career he really has no idea how to do anything except in a broken field or his jumper is running hot. Maybe if he were closer to 40% from downtown I could bump him up, but I think he and Kevin Martin are two of the most overrated players in the game.

On an established playoff team you can overlook raw scoring ability, but if you're comparing players without that preset condition, naturally, it's going to be more weighted towards it. We've always disagreed about this.

 

Gay is everything that you said he was, but I just can't discount that one thing he's talented at and rank him at 18th.

[Erick Blasco]

On an established playoff team you can overlook raw scoring ability, but if you're comparing players without that preset condition, naturally, it's going to be more weighted towards it. We've always disagreed about this.

 

Gay is everything that you said he was, but I just can't discount that one thing he's talented at and rank him at 18th.

 

Besides the specialists though, which player above Gay is really a worse scorer? Everyone up there has scoring abilities roughly equal to Gay except for maybe Turkoglu who makes up for it somewhat by being a fantastic distributor and clutch shooter. Gay can put the ball in the basket. So can many other wings.

 

Shawn Marion? In an open-court offense like the one Memphis runs, he'd score a bunch of points. Rashard Lewis can score. Wilson Chandler is close to being a featured player of an offense, he's that talented.

 

And since the prime goal of any NBA team is to win a championship with over half the teams making the playoffs anyway, how adept a player is to performing in the postseason should be a very strong determining factor when comparing players.

 

In a vacuum Rudy Gay is talented. In a vacuum Zach Randolph and Stephon Marbury are also talented. What happens when the vacuum is removed and suddenly 20,000 screaming fans are asking you to do something productive with 2 minutes left in a make or break situation.

 

It's why Denver wasn't up 3-0 in last year's Western Conference Finals or why the Lakers were able to prevail in so many close games.

 

What does Gay do besides score, and is he even that special of a scorer compared to all the other small forwards out there?

 

We see the game a bit differently which is why we disagree so much with me more critical of a player's defense, clutch performances, and discipline than you are. But in all honesty, even just going on talent, I don't see Gay as anything more than a run-of-the-mill volume scorer anyway, with better options to choose from.