Which is more difficult...

[His Greatness]

There is always someone who can completely destroy the best defensive player in the league.

 

But there isn't always someone who can stop the best offensive player in the NBA.

 

Defense is harder to play. That makes it tougher to learn.

 

There's a reason more people can score 20+ in a game, versus those having the ability to hold a 20+ scorer to single digits and below 40% FG.

 

In addition to that, simple screens can put small guards on big men, and mismatches are tougher on the defense. There are very, very few small guards in NBA history that can defend a talented power forward or center, but there are multiple small guards that can score on them...and ironically, the same goes for the bigs that can't defend the small guards out by the perimeter, but can back them into the post and score on them at will 30-40 times a game.

 

Scottie Pippen would drop 30+ on Shaq if, for some crazy reason, they kept finding themselves defending each other on switches. Shaq would also drop 50 on him. Better pray for help defense.

 

Defense is much more difficult to play and much more difficult to learn.

There are more defensively-challenged players because everyone as a child playing basketball is more inclined to play offense. It's not that it's too difficult to learn, it's that the players don't have motivation to play it.

 

Defense is not harder to play or easier to teach; you get any average person off the street and ask him to stay in front of Sasha Vujacic and he will always be more successful at that task than if you had asked him to score 40 points on him. Yes defense is very complex and is not easy to play, but the complications with offense dwarf them in comparison, some of them rooting in the very mechanics of the game (shooting, ball-handling, etc.).

 

You can always teach an offensive talent (notice why talent is applied here instead) to play defense, typically it comes with experience and more practice, but you can never teach a player that is strictly a defender to average 20 PPG. It's impossible.

[Real Deal]

If defense was mostly effort, there would be more able-bodied defensive players in this league. The more effort a player puts into defense, the more he's likely to foul. Use Vujacic as your example.

 

It's impossible to teach players strictly dedicated to defense to score 20 a game? Raja Bell? He came in strictly as a defensive guard/forward, and ended up averaging nearly 15 PPG in a Phoenix offense he had just 12 FGA per game in.

[Multi-Billionaire]

You can always watch the fundamentals to play defense video, read books... not because you like Kirk, but learn the tricks how to play perimeter defense by moving your feet ala Kirk Hinrich not hands... and have a straight body while bending the knees when crowding the offensive player. Learn the tricks...

 

A lot of players are measly defensively because they simply don't care enough to put in the work, or they don't know and don't care enough to find out how, or some of them even had no idea their defense is unacceptable.

 

It's definitely easy IF you're committed, you're dedicated, you make a promise to yourself that you're going to get better and be the best defensive player you can be.

 

 

Kobe's defense sucked [expletive] but he called Payton in summer of 1999 and from a Kobe who? defensively to All NBA Defensive First Team in 1999-00 season. This is the case where he didn't know how to play D and find out how and dedicate himself to get better at it.

 

 

And Ben Wallace was one of the hardest workers in the NBA during his first few years with the Pistons... I wouldn't say his hands were bad because he could catch alley oop passes, but why did he never average 10 pts if he worked as hard as he did?

[His Greatness]

If defense was mostly effort, there would be more able-bodied defensive players in this league. The more effort a player puts into defense, the more he's likely to foul. Use Vujacic as your example.

 

It's impossible to teach players strictly dedicated to defense to score 20 a game? Raja Bell? He came in strictly as a defensive guard/forward, and ended up averaging nearly 15 PPG in a Phoenix offense he had just 12 FGA per game in.

There are less of those players strictly for that reason. The NBA is the biggest composition of basketball talent in the world, every team will be more inclined to find offensive talent in the hopes that they can adapt to their defense. Shatter two birds with one stone.

 

Bell scored sub-15 PPG in Phoenix on almost exclusively spot-up shots. Inflated numbers on an all-offense team, it means nothing and you know it.

 

Meanwhile, LeBron, who entered the league a poor defender, worked hard in the off-season, and five years later he's the runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year and grabs 1st Team All-Defense honors.

 

If defense is harder to teach, does that mean you would've picked Thabeet first overall?

[Real Deal]

So why did Bryant even call Payton to begin with? Samaki Walker would've just told Kobe, "It's all about effort, Kobe. Try hard, and you'll be a good defensive player." What's the difference between that, and what Payton said? I think there's more to it than effort.

 

It took LeBron five years to find a way to block shots from the weakside, and steal passes in the passing lanes, using his athleticism. Good for him. He didn't deserve runner-up, but we're not going there (since we already did).

 

Would I pick Thabeet first? No. Griffin is a more complete player. But why would Thabeet go second? His offense needs a lot of work. You mean to tell me that OKC wouldn't have selected him if they had the chance? Sacramento? Minnseota at five? Thabeet was the best selection at #2. Why? Because his offensive game can be developed, and his defensive game is already one of the best at a college level and can be considered pro-ready quite easily.

 

You can shoot days and days, months, for a year or two, and develop a jumper. Ask Wade and Lebron. However, you can put forth as much effort as possible and STILL be a pathetic defensive player. Steve Nash is an extremely hard-working player, and his defense is simply trash. How hard did Nash and Nowitzki work to develop their overall games, only to find that they can both lead their teams as superstars...yet never play a lick of defense, no matter the effort?

 

If defense is mostly effort, the hardest-working offensive players would be able to play at least average defense. Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Gilbert Arenas, Ray Allen, Tracy McGrady...five of many that can give you 30-point games every night (McGrady when healthy) and that do work or used to work extremely hard on their games, yet they still play below-average defense and have done so their entire careers.

 

I don't see poor defensive players suddenly play excellent defense for an entire game, but I do see dedicated defensive players go out and have 15-20 point performances every now and then, no matter how it's done (spot-up shooting or slashing, doesn't matter).

 

Smush Parker was never a good player, period...but his offense improved in Los Angeles, and he wasn't just a spot-up shooter. Did his defense improve? Hell no.

 

Same with Von Wafer. His offense improved (compared to what it was for the Lakers), and he was actually starting games for Houston. His defense still sucked, though.

 

Omar Cook was an amazing offensive player before the draft, compared to Kidd with the ball in his hands. He got with a private coach that tried teaching him how to play better defense (pro-level defense, at that), and it failed miserably. He never made it as a pro.

 

Your offensive game doesn't always start with the ball in your hands. There are so many options that can make you look good or bad. You can be a spot-up shooter, a slasher, move excellent off the ball, be a facilitator, an offensive rebounder, multiple roles, and there are times you don't even have to be a part of the play. But defense always starts without the ball, and you have to be a part of the play every time. If you aren't, it suddenly becomes your entire team's problem.

 

Defense wins championships. If it was simply the effort, and it was so easy to teach, why are there numerous superstars and team captains that you'll never see making big defensive plays, or even having their hand in their team's defensive efforts to put them into contention for a title?

 

If Dirk takes all of his hard work towards his already-developed offensive game, and leans it towards learning that easy thing called defense, Dallas wins the Finals in 2006 with Dirk as their defensive anchor, just as Garnett did with Boston.

 

Guess Payton should've called him up and told him this.

[Multi-Billionaire]

Kobe called Payton because he didn't know the tricks to play proper D... e.g. move your feet, not hands, train lateral quickness, right hand extending horizontally, left hand vertically or vice versa... straight body, not slouching, bend knees, etc

 

Anyone can call Kobe to ask tips about how to shoot 3 pointers over 2 defenders, how to double pump in the air and avoid a Dwight block, how to be clutch... I don't think he's going to ever get it.

 

 

It took LeBron five years, but at least he gets there.

 

 

Steve Nash cares about distributing the ball. Okay he talked about how Phoenix had to play defense to get over the hump, but what happened when a coach who stressed defense finally came by his side (Terry Porter)? He fully contradicted himself, publicly complained things didn't work out, and quietly but obviously wanted Suns to fire Porter. He's never a true advocate of defense. He knows defense gets it done but it requires hard work and when the going gets tough, he quit.

 

 

Noone said playing defense is easy, it's difficult! But it requires dedication and commitment, certainly not the case with Nash who wanted out halfway.

 

 

Kobe had dedication, that's why Payton's tips worked for him, otherwise it wouldn't have mattered.

 

 

Defense is difficult, but it is much more realistic for someone average to totally master defense than he is to glide in the air like Kobe, or dunking over someone, unless he actually has "it" or the talent to begin with. E.g. I can see Nowitzki (who sucks defensively) being naemd to an All Defensive First team than Reggie Evans (who sucks offensively) to ever average 10+ ppg a full season. Especially if Nowitzki keeps failing to win a championship in Dallas, when money does not matter to him anymore, he can join championship contenders that stress defense. If Ray Allen could finally become a very good team defender and actually very good one on one defender (as he proved it in 2008 Finals) late in his career, because he knew that's what it takes to win. Can you refute this?

Edited July 6, 2009 by Snake

[Multi-Billionaire]

How about this? If offense is really that easy to master... didn't you once say you (yes, you Real) averaged 30 pts once in high school or something? Why didn't you buy books or watch tapes or heck (if Alex can interview a player's agent) I'm sure you can get Kobe's phone no if you want it bad enough... ask tips about how to score 30 pts in NBA... I'm sure NBA scouts would have noticed you. Why didn't you do it? You just passed millions of dollars!!

[Real Deal]

The first post you made replying to my last was just you telling me that offense was more difficult than defense. I don't know what to point out in that post other than the last part about Ray Allen. He's not a good man defender. Not sure where you got that from. The 2008 Finals? Just because Bryant struggled? Ray Allen was far from the reason why. Did you happen to see Ben Gordon picking him apart in their first-round meeting? How about what happened against Orlando? Why? Because there was no Garnett, the guy who made those guards think twice before driving the lane, which made Allen LOOK like a good defender.

 

How about this? If offense is really that easy to master... didn't you once say you (yes, you Real) averaged 30 pts once in high school or something? Why didn't you buy books or watch tapes or heck (if Alex can interview a player's agent) I'm sure you can get Kobe's phone no if you want it bad enough... ask tips about how to score 30 pts in NBA... I'm sure NBA scouts would have noticed you. Why didn't you do it? You just passed millions of dollars!!

I never said I averaged 30 in high school.

 

But to dig a bit deeper into that, I actually have multiple books on basketball, and a shooting DVD. I have the Better Basketball series DVD's. I also have a book on defense.

 

I can't sit here and make everyone believe I work extremely hard on my game (and have for a while), but I do...and I've had to work much less on my offense. My defense is still a big problem. I can't defend bigger and stronger guards in the post, and I have a lot of trouble with screens. A big part of that is having to get much thicker than I already am, and also knowing how to play defense with my body, and not swiping the ball all the time. Mentally, and physically, it's draining.

[Multi-Billionaire]

^Because you have other things to do in life... if you had been paid to play basketball, were you not going to spend extra effort to improve your defense? Hck I would. If I was paid a minimum to go into NBA games and guard point guards, I would say FML basketball is everything now... it's the source of income. I get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars just to play defense, I would rent my own gym, watch as many videos of fundamental defense, and watch guys who know how to get it done, and maybe hire my own coach if I am loaded.

 

Thing is I suspect you didn't have time just like any other normal 18-22 yr old then to work on your defense. I am pretty sure if you had been paid to play basketball and play basketball only, you'd have gone a greater length to improve your defense. You'd have the time to commit and dedicate to improving your defense.

 

It's draining noone said it's easy but it can be done.

 

 

And the fact you can score 30 ppg (I just remember you said it lol) is that you are not a stiff to begin with. My friend never was a scorer but he could make that bank shot... he gets all nervous if he doesn't have the angle to make the bank shot, because he doesn't know what to do with the ball. But he improves his defense and knows how to rebound and block shots.

 

 

Ray's one on one defense on Kobe in 2008 Finals was more than admirable. He was actually very good... Obviously team defense had a lot to do with it. He played good team defense and it increased his confidence to play one on one defense... similar to what Pistons did to Rip Hamilton. In 2009 they're missing KG and their team defense began to deteriorate and obviously it affected his one on one defense, also now he and Pierce had to focus more on the offensive end... we saw Ray drop 51 pts in Game 5. He couldn't focus as much on the defensive end.

[Real Deal]

I already stated that I didn't tell anyone I averaged 30 PPG in high school. Everyone here knows I shattered my ankle when I was a junior, before the season started, and missed my last two seasons.

 

With that said, I worked incredibly hard for basketball, especially when I was 15-20 years old. Part of it, from 17-18 years old, was rehabilitating my ankle. The rest of it was shooting and playing defense. I took the sport so serious, I ended up going blind years later because I decided to choose a sport over my health (diabetes), to the point where I would down bottle after bottle of Gatorade, run my blood sugar above normal, and play 6-8 hours a day/night, almost every single day.

 

And just so you know, Pierce was defending Kobe more than Ray was, and that's why many Celtics fans were trying to make the argument that Pierce was better than LeBron (because of his defense). Even Pierce was happy that his guys were scared to drive the lane against Garnett, Perkins, and PJ Brown. You should know the effects of defensive-minded players, having Birdman back, Billups coming to Denver and Kenyon Martin doing what he can.

 

As I mentioned, there's a reason why there are many more offensive-minded players and coaches. Putting the ball in the rim is easier than stopping someone from doing it.

[His Greatness]

It took LeBron five years to find a way to block shots from the weakside, and steal passes in the passing lanes, using his athleticism. Good for him. He didn't deserve runner-up, but we're not going there (since we already did).

If it takes five years for a jump from poor defensive player to All-Defensive First Team/DPOY runner-up, then it's a giant improvement for me. Whether the awards were deserving or not are up for debate, but LeBron made a significant leap on defense.

 

Would I pick Thabeet first? No. Griffin is a more complete player. But why would Thabeet go second? His offense needs a lot of work. You mean to tell me that OKC wouldn't have selected him if they had the chance? Sacramento? Minnseota at five? Thabeet was the best selection at #2. Why? Because his offensive game can be developed, and his defensive game is already one of the best at a college level and can be considered pro-ready quite easily.

If Griffin played Smush Parker defense he still would've gone first overall, by a longshot. That's pretty telling.

 

Thabeet will never develop into an offensive marvel, while I fully expect a guy like Curry (or any other poor defender) to become a sufficient defender in due time.

 

You can shoot days and days, months, for a year or two, and develop a jumper. Ask Wade and Lebron. However, you can put forth as much effort as possible and STILL be a pathetic defensive player. Steve Nash is an extremely hard-working player, and his defense is simply trash. How hard did Nash and Nowitzki work to develop their overall games, only to find that they can both lead their teams as superstars...yet never play a lick of defense, no matter the effort?

That works both ways. Ben Wallace is one of the hardest workers the NBA has ever seen and he never developed an offensive move or even a free throw in his 13 years in the league. Shane Battier has great work ethic, and he will always be a defensive specialist. Who knows if Dwight Howard will ever develop legitimate post moves.

 

Guys like Nash don't play much defense because all of the energy they have to exert on offense, while Nowitzki has actually become somewhat of a respectable defender.

 

If defense is mostly effort, the hardest-working offensive players would be able to play at least average defense. Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Gilbert Arenas, Ray Allen, Tracy McGrady...five of many that can give you 30-point games every night (McGrady when healthy) and that do work or used to work extremely hard on their games, yet they still play below-average defense and have done so their entire careers.

Offensive exertion takes a lot more out of you than it does defensively (it varies depending on the role). That, and some of the guys just didn't have the motivation.

 

I don't see poor defensive players suddenly play excellent defense for an entire game, but I do see dedicated defensive players go out and have 15-20 point performances every now and then, no matter how it's done (spot-up

shooting or slashing, doesn't matter).

Oh, right, Hedo Turkoglu didn't just play excellent defense on Kobe in Game 2 during the closing quarters. Carmelo Anthony didn't just turn it up on defense when he actually tried to play it against LA. J.J. Redick didn't just earn a spot in Van Gundy's rotation because of his sudden effort on defense. Gasol didn't play good defense all throughout the Finals (In fact, he's improved noticeably ever since he's been in a winning environment.).

 

Your assessment was very wrong — there are several instances of bad defenders turning it up on defense for an entire game, but then fizzling out the next, because they are in fact really just poor defenders.

 

While guys like Trevor Ariza will always be exclusively slashers and spot-up shooters. It's great that they can hit the jackpot once in a while, but offense is so much more than just scoring points.

 

Smush Parker was never a good player, period...but his offense improved in Los Angeles, and he wasn't just a spot-up shooter. Did his defense improve? Hell no.

 

Same with Von Wafer. His offense improved (compared to what it was for the Lakers), and he was actually starting games for Houston. His defense still sucked, though.

 

Omar Cook was an amazing offensive player before the draft, compared to Kidd with the ball in his hands. He got with a private coach that tried teaching him how to play better defense (pro-level defense, at that), and it failed miserably. He never made it as a pro.

The NBA is rife with guys that will counter each of your examples. Doesn't mean much, really.

 

Your offensive game doesn't always start with the ball in your hands. There are so many options that can make you look good or bad. You can be a spot-up shooter, a slasher, move excellent off the ball, be a facilitator, an offensive rebounder, multiple roles, and there are times you don't even have to be a part of the play. But defense always starts without the ball, and you have to be a part of the play every time. If you aren't, it suddenly becomes your entire team's problem.

And your "part in the play" can mean as much as denying your player the ball on the possession for a few steps and you're done. There are times where your guy isn't even involved in the offense. Your team's synchronization on defense is exactly what makes it easier to play and easier to teach.

 

If Dirk takes all of his hard work towards his already-developed offensive game, and leans it towards learning that easy thing called defense, Dallas wins the Finals in 2006 with Dirk as their defensive anchor, just as Garnett did with Boston.

I don't know, I was thinking maybe Erick Dampier—one of Dallas' harder workers and better defenders—instead, could've developed a complete offensive skillset akin to Nowitzki's to ensure the Mavericks' championship.

 

This is all really simple. Just answer this question: What is more believable? The Al Jeffersons and Allen Iversons of the world turning in All-Defensive First Team-type performances, or the Marcin Gortats and Royal Iveys averaging 20-10 or 30+ PPG in a season?

[Real Deal]

So everything you said simply gives examples of it going the other way, but you didn't disprove anything.

 

And by the way, saying Hedo defended Bryant well? Every defensive play he made on Bryant was with him coming out of nowhere after he was burned, including the block, where he needed help defense to recover. Redick? Are you kidding me? And Gasol has shown he can play defense, but he's afraid of contact (he's soft). He knows how to defend. He has the skill. He just doesn't want a shoulder in the sternum or broaden the possibility that he steps on someone's foot and rolls his ankle.

 

This is all really simple. Just answer this question: What is more believable? The Al Jeffersons and Allen Iversons of the world turning in All-Defensive First Team-type performances, or the Marcin Gortats and Royal Iveys averaging 20-10 or 30+ PPG in a season?

Neither. Thing is, you'll never see Gortat and Ivey average 20 points because they aren't given the opportunity to...but EVERYONE is given the opportunity to play defense, night in and night out, and Jefferson and Iverson have proven to us that they are poor defensive players.

 

I'm sure you would've never guessed that Von Wafer could give Houston 10 PPG in just 19 minutes, either.

[Diesel]

Interesting discussion. I'm not sure which side I would go with. You could always improve both ways. Ball Handling and jump shots are learned through repetition as well as lateral quickness by moving side to side picking your feet up as fast as you can. Defense requires more Basketball IQ though as it's important to know your oppenents tendencies. I think it's easier to learn offense though. Just takes a lot of repetition.

[Cleveland's Finest]

This statement contradicts your point of view. If you think improving defense is more difficult to do, why is Ben Wallace such a great defender? He lacks offensive skill and as much as he works on it, it won't improve.

 

Lol...I meant offensive. my bad

[Real Deal]

Ah, I should note that Ben Wallace has had 5-6 50%+ shooting seasons, averaged nearly 10 PPG a couple of times in his career. In the limited roles he has played on those teams, he sure has done fairly well offensively.

[His Greatness]

So everything you said simply gives examples of it going the other way, but you didn't disprove anything.

That's because I've already given my reasons. It is always going to be easier for anyone to play and improve at defense as opposed to offense. One is just more natural talent, the other being more work ethic, motivation and effort.

 

And by the way, saying Hedo defended Bryant well? Every defensive play he made on Bryant was with him coming out of nowhere after he was burned, including the block, where he needed help defense to recover. Redick? Are you kidding me? And Gasol has shown he can play defense, but he's afraid of contact (he's soft). He knows how to defend. He has the skill. He just doesn't want a shoulder in the sternum or broaden the possibility that he steps on someone's foot and rolls his ankle.

In 4th quarter and overtime of Game 2, Turkoglu played very solid defense on Bryant, that recovery block was just one example. In overtime, he stayed with Bryant step-for-step, denied the ball very good, and even forced a few passes.

 

Redick began seeing more time in SVG's rotation, and that can be attributed to his sudden effort on defense. He won't be winning any awards, but his activity on that side of the ball has revived his career.

 

Neither. Thing is, you'll never see Gortat and Ivey average 20 points because they aren't given the opportunity to...but EVERYONE is given the opportunity to play defense, night in and night out, and Jefferson and Iverson have proven to us that they are poor defensive players.

 

I'm sure you would've never guessed that Von Wafer could give Houston 10 PPG in just 19 minutes, either.

Haha, you won't see them ever average that much because they can't and never will be able to. They're just limited on that side of the ball. Whereas I expect someone like Jefferson to improve on defense as he gets older and more experienced, and if he doesn't, it's still an infinite times more believable than Gortat or Ivey averaging 20 points. That's the right answer.

 

If Jefferson was asked to focus all his energy on defense, I would not be surprised if he becomes a solid defender. Gortat can train all he wants, but he'll never be the dynamic post player that Jefferson is. No way.

[Real Deal]

Like I said, years ago, you would've posted this:

 

There's no chance Von Wafer could average 20 points per game, if given 40 minutes. There's a much bigger chance his defense improves, if anything.

I'm sorry if I'm seeing a lot of players become better offensive weapons. Shannon Brown, for instance, is doing that with the Lakers. Trevor Ariza? Same thing. It's crazy that both entered the NBA as two who would contribute defensively, and came to Los Angeles and were slashing AND shooting their way into larger roles.

 

Have you seen Raja Bell and what he's been doing with the ball in Charlotte? I brought him up earlier, and his time in Phoenix, because I know you can't compare the two situations.

 

Prince was a very good offensive player, and a defensive player, at Kentucky. His defense was NBA-ready from the start. His offense wasn't, not at all. He started shooting the ball more, though, and his role increased as an offensive player. It was actually his smaller role on offense that didn't land him an all-star spot the year Detroit had nearly their entire starting five in the ASG, but his game improved offensively, leaps and bounds.

 

I can do this with multiple players, for days, throughout history. It's not uncommon at all. Billups? He has always been a good defensive player. His offense improved greatly, and partially due to his role (and work ethic). His long-time teammate, Rip Hamilton...same thing. When he started playing off the ball and working extra-hard as that Reggie Miller clone, his offensive production stepped into all-star status, but his individual defense hasn't exactly improved as much, as he was probably happy to have the Wallaces, Prince and Billups backing him up in that regard.

 

All day long, I'll find you players who were having trouble shooting the ball, having trouble finishing at the rim, and were given bigger or just completely different roles in an offense, and it changed them. Even Scottie Pippen fits the mold perfectly.

[Multi-Billionaire]

Putting the ball in the rim is easier than stopping someone from doing it.

 

That's what gifted offensive players take for granted. They don't know how hard it is to score... but because they're so good, they don't think it's hard. But to average persons to have that feel on that offensive end, is something that is unteachable... one that cannot be obtained through hard work. You're speaking as a scorer yourself who doesn't find scoring hard. But to one guy, it's hard to dribble, break down/ split defenders, to hang in the air, double pump and do reverse, to have an arc to the jumpshot.

 

If someone average comes to you, and say Real I want to do all the things you do offensively... how can you ever point him to the right direction? You'd probably just laugh off and tell him to practice, there's no really pointers to show him, is there? Offense is about feel, about comfort zone, about your own definition and expression in breaking down defenders... there's no real teaching to that? How do you teach feel, comfort zone and expression to anyone?

 

But if someone says I want to defend as well as you... he can probably get off the court that day a much better defender from the knowledge and tips he gains. Defense is not about feel, is not about comfort zone (in fact there's little comfort in defense), is not about expression. Defense is all about HARD WORK, DEDICATION, and COMMITMENT. If you have these three, and seriously and genuinely work towards getting better and the best you can be, and of course learn the right (not wrong) defensive tricks.... e.g. if you learn from someone who is lousy defensively then doesn't matter how hard, dedicated, or committed you're, you're learning the wrong way... then you have a pretty good chance of becoming a very good defender.

 

 

Again, offense is your artwork on a white canvas. How good it looks depends on how passionate, how eager you are. And if you don't have it, it just wouldn't look as good as those works from the gifted ones e.g. Bergnini. It's unteachable.

 

Defense is someone with a pencil, ruler, and eraser who follows the blueprint and copies exactly the same thing. It just needs hardwork, dedication, and commitment to follow the same exact graph to make it your own. It's teachable.

[His Greatness]

Like I said, years ago, you would've posted this:

Because there is no chance. It's great that he's been able to plug his points in limited minutes, but Wafer is not a 20 PPG scorer. Not the conventional way, at least.

 

I'm sorry if I'm seeing a lot of players become better offensive weapons. Shannon Brown, for instance, is doing that with the Lakers. Trevor Ariza? Same thing. It's crazy that both entered the NBA as two who would contribute defensively, and came to Los Angeles and were slashing AND shooting their way into larger roles.

 

Have you seen Raja Bell and what he's been doing with the ball in Charlotte? I brought him up earlier, and his time in Phoenix, because I know you can't compare the two situations.

 

Prince was a very good offensive player, and a defensive player, at Kentucky. His defense was NBA-ready from the start. His offense wasn't, not at all. He started shooting the ball more, though, and his role increased as an offensive player. It was actually his smaller role on offense that didn't land him an all-star spot the year Detroit had nearly their entire starting five in the ASG, but his game improved offensively, leaps and bounds.

 

I can do this with multiple players, for days, throughout history. It's not uncommon at all. Billups? He has always been a good defensive player. His offense improved greatly, and partially due to his role (and work ethic). His long-time teammate, Rip Hamilton...same thing. When he started playing off the ball and working extra-hard as that Reggie Miller clone, his offensive production stepped into all-star status, but his individual defense hasn't exactly improved as much, as he was probably happy to have the Wallaces, Prince and Billups backing him up in that regard.

 

All day long, I'll find you players who were having trouble shooting the ball, having trouble finishing at the rim, and were given bigger or just completely different roles in an offense, and it changed them. Even Scottie Pippen fits the mold perfectly.

Nice list, but this isn't extending on your point at all, mainly because I never said that it was impossible to improve your offense — I said that it was easier to improve your defense. I'd participate in the name-dropping game, but I figure it's a waste of time.

 

If those same players invested the same amount of time on their defense as they did their offense, they would be seeing more results on that side of the ball. Players just tend to work on offense because it's the more glamorous side of basketball.

[His Greatness]

That's what gifted offensive players take for granted. They don't know how hard it is to score... but because they're so good, they don't think it's hard. But to average persons to have that feel on that offensive end, is something that is unteachable... one that cannot be obtained through hard work. You're speaking as a scorer yourself who doesn't find scoring hard. But to one guy, it's hard to dribble, break down/ split defenders, to hang in the air, double pump and do reverse, to have an arc to the jumpshot.

 

If someone average comes to you, and say Real I want to do all the things you do offensively... how can you ever point him to the right direction? You'd probably just laugh off and tell him to practice, there's no really pointers to show him, is there? Offense is about feel, about comfort zone, about your own definition and expression in breaking down defenders... there's no real teaching to that? How do you teach feel, comfort zone and expression to anyone?

 

But if someone says I want to defend as well as you... he can probably get off the court that day a much better defender from the knowledge and tips he gains. Defense is not about feel, is not about comfort zone (in fact there's little comfort in defense), is not about expression. Defense is all about HARD WORK, DEDICATION, and COMMITMENT. If you have these three, and seriously and genuinely work towards getting better and the best you can be, and of course learn the right (not wrong) defensive tricks.... e.g. if you learn from someone who is lousy defensively then doesn't matter how hard, dedicated, or committed you're, you're learning the wrong way... then you have a pretty good chance of becoming a very good defender.

 

 

Again, offense is your artwork on a white canvas. How good it looks depends on how passionate, how eager you are. And if you don't have it, it just wouldn't look as good as those works from the gifted ones e.g. Bergnini. It's unteachable.

 

Defense is someone with a pencil, ruler, and eraser who follows the blueprint and copies exactly the same thing. It just needs hardwork, dedication, and commitment to follow the same exact graph to make it your own. It's teachable.

Great post Frankie. I'd like to highlight one thing:

 

They don't know how hard it is to score... but because they're so good, they don't think it's hard.

Yes. That's the crux of what I've been saying all along.

[Real Deal]

Guess I just have to push myself even harder and be more dedicated to fix my defensive problems the next time I spend hours getting physically abused underneath the rim. As long as I'm determined and dedicated to it, I should become the best defensive player on the court, every night...

 

Thanks for the tips, guys.

[His Greatness]

And if I worked hard, but not quite as hard as you do defensively, I should be well on my way to becoming the next Kobe Bryant. Best closer on the planet, inside, outside, you can't stop me.

Edited July 7, 2009 by His Greatness

[xx.]

I got the rock in my hands

There ain’t no tellin what i’m gonna do wit it

When i got possession i’m gonna have to fool wit it

I might cross you up and fake one way

Turn around and hit you wit the MJ fade-away

I throwin down passes like J-Kidd

Taking cats to the rack

And I’m dunkin over them like T-Mac

When I’m in the paint I play wit that Alonzo style

I’m like Darius cuz I can shoot 2 miles

 

Offense is real easy like that, so I will say defense is harder.

Edited July 7, 2009 by NeTs15VC

[Real Deal]

And if I worked hard, but not quite as hard as you do defensively, I should be well on my way to becoming the next Kobe Bryant. Best closer on the planet, inside, outside, you can't stop me.

Your sarcasm is on a different planet in this regard. What I said meant that, no matter what I did, my defense wasn't going to improve...that I've been working on it extremely hard for years, and I still have average defense.

 

I really don't even know what you're telling me with this.

[Flight]

I don't really know what to lean towards, considering I've never had NBA level coaching.

 

 

Shooting is 50% form, 50% feel/touch if you ask me. My form isn't that great, it's fairly unorthodox, but given that Shawn Marion can shoot well, it doesn't seem to be that big of a problem. That said though, look at the greatest shooters of all time, they all have perfect (or close to it) form.

 

As far as driving the lane and ball handling, practice will help the handles. NBA weight rooms definitely make every player stronger from draft day to their plateau, at which point age takes over. By then, experience makes up for it though.

 

 

 

Defense, to me, is a lot more based on you're desire and athletic ability. It also depends heavily on intelligence. Scouts in the NBA can tell any player how to guard their man all game, it's just a matter of going out there and having the mind (and ability to handle the stress) to keep doing what you should be doing.

 

I'm a defensively focused player, and I think a key reason for that is my athletic ability and tenacity. The main factor, though, is my intelligence. I'm a smart player, don't get scouting reports on specific players, but I remember every guy's game for the next time we play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That said, it's a toss-up for me, but I think I'll lean towards improving offense as being easier to improve.