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Real Deal

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Real Deal Apprentice

Real Deal

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If you don't like long posts, pretend this is fairly short. Please read it all. :)

 

What I'm going to address doesn't date back to this summer, but to January 26th, 2005, when I started this site. Most know the story, so I'll keep it simple: OTR was created because I wanted to get away from personal attacks on message board members. I wasn't happy reading sexist remarks, disappointed in racist jokes in AIM chats directed to those I posted with, and those attacks were never against me...but members were looking to me, as a team forum moderator, to do something about it.

 

Well, I did. And now, I'm doing it again.

 

Members are going to get suspended or banned for personal attacks. It has been that way forever, although I've let it go for quite some time, in hopes that it would die down as we grew as a community. Instead, the exact opposite happened, and we were way too comfortable posting here.

 

Don't get me wrong...being comfortable here, as a poster, is what we want. We just don't want it to alter the way you treat everyone else. You can disagree with anyone you want when it comes to basketball discussion. That's your right as a poster. However, when you call someone a "f---ing idiot" if they believe that Steve Nash is an MVP candidate this year (just an example), right or wrong, you are crushing all hopes of an intelligent basketball discussion topic. If you are for or against religion, you don't need to mock others opposing your views. Are you right or left wing? Either way, don't make it a habit throwing jabs at the opposition...not in a demeaning way, or what could be considered inappropriate to our forums.

 

As far as bans and suspensions go...guys, there is a rule: three strikes, and it's a suspension. You double that, and you're done. Our last two banned members have been suspended a combined eight times. In fact, all of this can be found in our rules below.

 

http://www.otrbasketball.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

 

What you won't see in those guidelines (and what you haven't seen since we restarted the board) would be a rule on baiting. But let's dip into that. Since 2005, it has been known that excessive, severe baiting will not be tolerated here. We have had baiting every other day, and it elevates during the playoffs. To date, very few members have been banned for baiting. If you want to know what excessive baiting is, go back to the Yao/Dwight topics before we were hacked. When you register here with the intention of stirring up a certain team's fanbase, or a particular member or two, you're more than likely going to be baiting our members excessively. Also, when half of your posts are directed at a member or a fanbase, you're probably in the same boat. Weeks of the same thing, with that member creating irrelevant topics about how bad a team is, making numerous repetitive posts about players, fans and teams with the intent to shake cages...that's excessive baiting.

 

I'm sure a lot of you understand the bans and suspensions, and I'm sure some don't. That's how it should be. If everyone understood, it means that they were involved in it all the time, and we'd be lacking member activity even more, in that case...so I'm happy for that.

 

Just something to think about, though: many of you don't like when things are being resolved with open invitation to the public. However, you point fingers and don't understand anything when things are resolved. You can't have it both ways. Both irritate you, so that might be something some need to make a decision about, and accept other members' mistakes as their own demise, rather than me just wanting to get rid of them. I have kept many along for the ride for far, far too long, even those who are notorious for baiting Lakers fans (and bangbangbang is the best example of this).

 

And that brings me to my final point...why members are banned, and what others think they know. Members are not staff members...big difference. As a member, you don't have to deal with anything other than your own post content, and debates you find yourself glued to. The admins and mods here know why these members get banned, and we have discussions about them as well. We've talked about keeping them, despite things they've should've been banned for...and we did, two or three times, all for the sake of giving them that opportunity to post along with the rest of the guys they've been around for 4-5 years. When it's all said and done, you can't abuse that right...and there comes a time when there isn't a single person on staff that wants to take up for you anymore.

 

You know, almost five years of this and it seems like we still have a few guys who believe they are old enough, or dedicated enough, to say what they want. Believe it or not, I'm fully aware of what a lot of people say on AIM, because for some reason, it always gets back to me, full pasted conversations. I read them quite often. I'm also aware that people will rat you out if they feel it's for the best, and that has happened a lot recently. I know that the popular thing to do (and something that has been discussed) is to get me angry, have me suspend someone, and see if members will jet because of it. I know about a "posting strike" that was put into effect, also, between a group of members. I realize that members from other sites are being asked to register and start trouble. Most forget that, despite the few that truly want this place to go down in flames, I am respected by a LOT of site owners, and I have access to plenty of databases and IP addresses. It's not hard to find out who is doing what, and get help from those owners in the process (which only hurts you in the long run, on those other sites).

 

Yes, posting has been down. It has been on the decline since July 19th, 2009, where we fell below 500 posts for the first time since going back up (428 to be exact). Aside from what you may have thought, or what some say, the post decline has more to do with the hack than anything. Four days of 1,000 posts since we restarted...that's all...the first four days. After that 16 days before we fell to less than 500. Do the math...had nothing to do with suspensions, bans, or anything of the sort.

 

But through all of this, we'll move on. I'll find a way to bring in new members once I get home next week. I'll start working on the player database, team pages, and everything. I'll go back to the Brandon of old when it comes to doing work, and we'll see how genuine those statements concerning this site's last days really are. The more people to rebel and leave, the more our dedicated guys have to step up, becoming bigger names in the community, maintaining bigger roles as a poster (or even a staff member), and making the contributions we've been looking for in every member that registers here.

 

There are guys that talk about being on my bad side. They forget that there are plenty of members on my good side, and it's those that I trust the most, and those that I want standing with me when it's all said and done. It's going to take much more to bring the site down, probably three times as much to crack me...so we know what needs to be done. I'll get promotion sigs out (finally), get to work on the player profiles and such, try and post more in these gameday topics, put out some front page news and maybe a new podcast sometime in the next couple of weeks, and we'll see how well you guys work in the clutch. :)

 

Something you've heard me say for almost five years now...thanks for all of the contributions, whatever you do for us (posting, moderating, administrating, promoting, etc). Nothing ever goes unnoticed.

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Guest N4S

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It seems like a thread like this is posted every other month regarding bans, suspensions, attacks, etc.

 

I honestly believe that people will never change and if so to a minimum. They will cool down for a little and go back to their ways.

 

IMO OTR is the best board around no doubt but if someone or something causes me or anyone to get out of line which results in a suspension or ban then you figure out ways to cope. Whether its to stop frequenting message boards to to just move on to the next one.

 

I hate to say this but it's true. It just always sounds like a broken record.

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Real Deal Apprentice

Real Deal

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It seems like a thread like this is posted every other month regarding bans, suspensions, attacks, etc.

 

I honestly believe that people will never change and if so to a minimum. They will cool down for a little and go back to their ways.

 

IMO OTR is the best board around no doubt but if someone or something causes me or anyone to get out of line which results in a suspension or ban then you figure out ways to cope. Whether its to stop frequenting message boards to to just move on to the next one.

 

I hate to say this but it's true. It just always sounds like a broken record.

Well, I really should be able to avoid this stuff to begin with, but with the recent bans and suspensions, people want answers. The only thing I can say to that is that, when they ask me to deal with members they don't like, bans are most definitely up for discussion in their minds, and a great example of this would be this small sentence from a PM I got two months ago:

 

"I doubt OTR even recognizes his absence in the first place, tbh. He doesnt contribute to the forum, so you might as well hang him out to dry."

 

But, when I banned Slaven, this same exact member had a problem with it on AIM, said something about how things should be let go every once in a while, that nobody is ever offended (basically speaking for everyone on the site).

 

That's not how it works, and everyone should know that. I have done far too much keeping a lot of our dedicated guys at bay, yet pulled the trigger much quicker for the new members...and that's where the problem was. New members have felt insecure about their stay here because, for one, it's tough to fit in when posts are strongly influenced by how long you've been registered here, and two, they find that OTR is more of an off-topic site where discussion is triggered by either comedic actions, personal attacks or anger.

 

We were moving in the wrong direction. We need to spin around and change our pace and intentions ASAP.

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I definitely agree and I do believe the constant problem causers just dont care anymore and instead of just moving on they hang around and create problems.

 

I'm not no angel either. There have been many times were I have typed out a post and canceled it or deleted a post because I didn't want to tick people off.

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Poe Newbie

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I don't always agree with how things are done, cause I don't personally mind an aggressive style of posting, but I still like this forum overall. A lot of the members here seem to know their stuff.

 

I only average out 4 posts per day... I'll see if I can contribute more, and help this site grow back to whatever it used to be (I haven't even been a member for a full year yet).

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Jenneral Newbie

Jenneral

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I have a suggestion that I'm sure many of the members will hate but I feel it would help new members fit in a bit more.

 

How about eliminating individual post count being shown in threads? Maybe they could still be available on the user's page but just not in threads. That would in a way make everyone "equal" when posting and people wouldn't feel like they had little impact on the site due to their post count.

 

Just a thought. :dribble:

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JWaLL Newbie

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I have a suggestion that I'm sure many of the members will hate but I feel it would help new members fit in a bit more.

 

How about eliminating individual post count being shown in threads? Maybe they could still be available on the user's page but just not in threads. That would in a way make everyone "equal" when posting and people wouldn't feel like they had little impact on the site due to their post count.

 

Just a thought. :dribble:

I'm liking this idea.

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Real Deal Apprentice

Real Deal

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Removing post count numbers doesn't change anything. It doesn't encourage you guys to post more, and when a new member registers to a 100k post forum, he is fully aware that he's starting out at zero.

 

Are you guys saying that someone is less likely to register at RealGM to discuss basketball, and stay on there, just because they show post count numbers in topics?

 

JBB removed the post counts from the left pane, and it didn't do anything. NBAD removed them, and nothing.

 

People are going to want that at this time (meaning those who are already here) because it helps me find out how active members are over time, as you also see the registration month and year.

 

It also assists me in finding those here just to spam their site in their sig. If I see that they are making short posts that really make little sense to the topic, and see the site link, I look over and notice they have 35 posts or so...and it's a quicker way to lure me into checking in on the rest of their posts, and comparing it to how active they are on their own site.

 

New members don't stay because of how they are treated. If it's a Lakers fan, the comment is, "Great, another Lakers fan!" If it's a member who dives into a religious topic the first week he's here, there's no chance he wants to stick around. It's been that way for five years. Removing left-pane post count view doesn't change anything.

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Jenneral Newbie

Jenneral

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Removing post count numbers doesn't change anything. It doesn't encourage you guys to post more, and when a new member registers to a 100k post forum, he is fully aware that he's starting out at zero.

 

Are you guys saying that someone is less likely to register at RealGM to discuss basketball, and stay on there, just because they show post count numbers in topics?

 

JBB removed the post counts from the left pane, and it didn't do anything. NBAD removed them, and nothing.

 

People are going to want that at this time (meaning those who are already here) because it helps me find out how active members are over time, as you also see the registration month and year.

 

It also assists me in finding those here just to spam their site in their sig. If I see that they are making short posts that really make little sense to the topic, and see the site link, I look over and notice they have 35 posts or so...and it's a quicker way to lure me into checking in on the rest of their posts, and comparing it to how active they are on their own site.

 

New members don't stay because of how they are treated. If it's a Lakers fan, the comment is, "Great, another Lakers fan!" If it's a member who dives into a religious topic the first week he's here, there's no chance he wants to stick around. It's been that way for five years. Removing left-pane post count view doesn't change anything.

Why don't we try it for a month and see? Don't just shoot it down based on how other sites reacted to it, this is OTR, not NBAD.

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