ChosenOne Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) Make your pick and please explain why? Edited December 12, 2009 by ChosenOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xx. Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Whos better Bill Russell or John Stockton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 12, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Depends on what you need for your team. To build around? Probably Shaq, but only because dominant centers are much more difficult to acquire in the league. Kobe is the greater player, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChosenOne Posted December 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Whos better Bill Russell or John Stockton? Right now I would say John Stockton he seems to be a bit younger and was very lively in his Hall of Fame ceremony while back. Bill just seems verly old and not able to play anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Bomba Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Whos better Bill Russell or John Stockton?lol exacally. It's hard to compare a guard with a big man. I would still take Shaq. Shaq in the early 2000's was arguably the most dominant player ever. You can argue about his flaws like his inability to defend the pick and roll and everything like that, but offensively he was unstoppable. A double team couldn't stop. He was always among the league leaders in rebounds and although Shaq has never been seen as a dominant defensive force, he was always intimidating and could still average over two blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artesticle Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Make your pick as in who you would build a team around? I take the Most Dominant Player in sports history, Shaquille O'Neal no question about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChosenOne Posted December 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Make your pick as in who you would build a team around? I take the Most Dominant Player in sports history, Shaquille O'Neal no question about it. First round first pick who you take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artesticle Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 First round first pick who you take?I'd take a prime Shaq over a prime Kobe. Don't get me wrong, Kobe's a phenomenal player, best player in the game. However, if I'm building a championship team, it makes my job a lot easier if I have someone like a prime Shaq in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldChili Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 I'll take Prime Shaq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChosenOne Posted December 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 I am curious to see who had voted for Kobe and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJNJ Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Prime Shaq... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Kobe because he doesnt need a hall of fame teammate to win a championship. Shaq does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regime Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 ^Andrew Bynum will be a hall of famer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 ^Andrew Bynum will be a hall of famer.Does 6 ppg, 3 rbg sound like a hall of famer to you? Because thats what he did in the playoffs last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChosenOne Posted December 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 ^Sasha will be a hall of famer. Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) Kobe because he doesnt need a hall of fame teammate to win a championship. Shaq does.No player in NBA history can win a championship by themselves. Not Shaq. Not Kobe. Not even Michael Jordan. No matter what, there are always 5 guys on the court on each team. 5 guys on the defensive end, and 5 guys on the offensive end. Every single player on the court is required to contribute one way or another in order to win games. Every player needs to fill in for their 20% on the court. Whether it's rebounding, playing good man or team defense, hitting shots, or just setting good screens. Even if 4 out of 5 are contributing at 100%, it won't cut it when it comes to winning championships, because your team is running at only 80%. Great scorers get the most attention, but it's really the whole teams that are winning it. Yes, great scorers, playmakers, "go-to" guys, guys that make their teammates better, the all-around leaders.. they are very important. Those are the MVPs. Every great team needs one. But I guarantee you, nobody can win it by themselves. As much as you need the guy who can score, you also need the guy who can shoot treys, the guy who can defend the opposing best player, the inside presence, the monster on the glass. Having good role players is just as essential as having the great player that defenses have to strategize against. If you look in NBA history, every great player to win a championship normally has the same thing in common. Great role players, a Hall of Fame caliber teammate or teammates, and a great coach. Last year, Kobe Bryant had Pau Gasol as his potential HoF teammate. He wouldn't have won it without him. He had his solid role players in Derek Fisher, Trevor Ariza, Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, and Jordan Farmar. He wouldn't have won it without them. He had the best coach in the last two decades in Phil Jackson. He wouldn't have won it without him, either. For the Celtics championship, Paul Pierce had Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo as his potential HoF teammates. Along with his multiple stars for teammates, he had Sam Cassell, James Posey, Kendrick Perkins, and Eddie House. He also had a pretty good coach in Doc Rivers. He obviously wouldn't have won it without them. For the Heat championship, Dwyane Wade had Shaquille O'Neal. His role players were Udonis Haslem, Jason Williams, James Posey, Antoine Walker, Gary Payton, and Alonzo Mourning. HoF coach was Pat Riley. As amazing as Dwyane Wade was, from following the Heat myself, I can bet you they would not have won the championship if they were missing just one of those guys. They all played an important role one way or another. For the Lakers 3-peat. Shaq had Kobe, along with Fisher, Fox, Grant, Horry, and I believe Rice and Harper IIRC. Plus, Phil Jackson, of course. I bet you Shaq wouldn't have won it without those guys, either. Do I need to move on to Jordan? Hakeem? Magic? Kareem? I think you get the point. Nobody wins it by themselves. Nobody. Edited December 13, 2009 by Poe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 13, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Well, I still think it lies on the fact that dominant centers are too hard to find. Kobe is just as dominant. I don't think anyone here can name me one single player that can lock him up all by themselves in two consecutive games (to avoid the fluke). The fact is, Kobe has done more with less, because since Shaq's first year or two in Orlando, he has never went a season without a star guard. Kobe does more on the court than O'Neal does. But today, you want a dominant center, mainly because there are less in the league, and because there are plenty of all-star caliber guards to select from...so if I'm building a team, I take Shaq. The only problem is, I'd have to be guaranteed to get that all-star teammate, or else I take Kobe. I trust that Bryant would do more work, and find more success, in that situation of being alone...while Shaq had no chance at beating the Bulls in the first round with Wade being injured (champs were swept), and his play in Phoenix was just ugly when Nash decided to just dump him the ball and let him do whatever he wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravenewworld Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Shaq. One of the most dominate big men ever. Kobe is unmatchable but a dominate big man such as Shaq or Duncan are the life blood of dynasties. Kobe because he doesnt need a hall of fame teammate to win a championship. Shaq does. No one wins titles on their own. Kobe won his first three titles BECAUSE of Shaq, not vice versa. Shaq probably would have gone on to win 2-3 titles at that time in his career no matter if he had TMac, Carter, Pierce, What ever star guard on his team. Now im not suggesting that Kobe is on their level, no he is far above them, but that is Kobe now, not Kobe with Shaq. Kobe with Shaq was still a budding flower. I would also like to point out that Bynum, Gasol, Fisher, Artest and maybe Odom are all potential HOF'ers and i would not be surprised to see 3 out of 5 of them in the HOF in the future. As a side note i would also like to point out this is a terrible comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) Gasol is no where near Pippens level. Gasol is nowhere near 00-03 Kobe level. I find it funny how all of a sudden hes a "potential HOF" when just prior to last year he was considered "soft." Be honest with yourself, Gasol is nowhere near a potential HOF. He is an all star player, and a great player in the league today, thats it. Kobe didnt need a HOF teammate to win a title. Shaq did, Jordan did, and even had Rodman as well. Edited December 13, 2009 by kingfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 13, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Yeah, Bynum averaged just 6 PPG, 4 RPG on 46% shooting in the 2009 Playoffs. I can't say he really contributed like a HOF'er, let alone an all-star or even a very good sixth man. Odom has no shot at the Hall, and Fisher isn't even close. Gasol was a second-round virgin until he became a Laker, and everyone was determined to make this a point right when the trade happened, claiming that he was too soft to go up against the likes of other great power forwards, and the Lakers, despite being contenders, still needed a solid second option. Michael Jordan, Karl Malone, David Robinson, John Stockton...those are HOF'ers. Gasol would only get in because of his success in international play, while guys like Fisher and Odom have absolutely no chance at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 First round first pick who you take? First round pick I'd take Kobe just for the simple fact that Shaq has moved three times already while Kobe hasn't. Also, Kobe has proven to be a more mature leader and a good example to his teammates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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