BadgerFan Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I think we can have a pretty good debate on this topic about last night's game. Lakers fans think this was a block, while a lot of other people think it's a charge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2G6LymlDMk You be the judge (he traveled before that anyways) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Neither charge nor travel. Bogut was shuffling his feet on contact, and the continuation was deserved because Kobe took two steps after fully gathering the ball. The refs got the call right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 18, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Neither charge nor travel. Bogut was shuffling his feet on contact, and the continuation was deserved because Kobe took two steps after fully gathering the ball. The refs got the call right.Amazing. You MUST be a Lakers fan! That's exactly right, though. Bogut was sliding right when Kobe gathered, contact was made and Bogut's foot tripped up Bryant, causing the extra step, and the foul was made, continuation was allowed, and Bryant put up the ball. Great call by the referees. If it was rigged, they wouldn't have let the Lakers go down by a nearly-impossible six points with a minute to go, lol...but yeah, it just sucks to have to contain Bryant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 I don't see what the speculation is about, Bogut shuffled his feet. It was a block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Lmao last nite everyone was cryin and screamin the game was rigged now nobody has anything to say about it cause they were proved wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 People would normally rather put blame on anybody but themselves, or their own team in such a close game. As far as scapegoats go, refs are a fan favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regime Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Why are people even complaining about this call, the Bucks were up 6 with roughly a minute and a half to go. No way should they have given the Lakers an oppertunity to get back into this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerFan Posted December 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 They would have been up by 4 with 40 seconds left, instead it's a one point game. It made a HUGE difference. Even some NBA anylsists are saying that the call was a joke. If Bogut would have drove in and did the same exact thing against Kobe Bryant, do you think it would be a charge or a block? Answer is pretty obvious imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 It's obviously a block as the refs made the correct call, but there should have been a travel called before that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish7718 Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 lol neither a block nor charge it was a flop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.K. Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Bogut did the Ali shuffle before he flopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deestillballin Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Bogut did the Ali shuffle before he flopped. LOL. It does LOOK like a travel but it is clearly a blocking foul lol, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerFan Posted December 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 NBA rule states that as long as you have posistion, your allowed to not have your feet set in order for it to be a charge. Bogut had clear posistion, and Kobe spun right into him. It's a clear cut charge imo.He traveled first anyways, and he spun right into Bogut who had posistion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Penny Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 They would have been up by 4 with 40 seconds left, instead it's a one point game. It made a HUGE difference. Even some NBA anylsists are saying that the call was a joke. If Bogut would have drove in and did the same exact thing against Kobe Bryant, do you think it would be a charge or a block? Answer is pretty obvious imo.NBA rule states that as long as you have posistion, your allowed to not have your feet set in order for it to be a charge. Bogut had clear posistion, and Kobe spun right into him. It's a clear cut charge imo.He traveled first anyways, and he spun right into Bogut who had posistion. you obviously have a personal beef with kobe... that was blatantly a charge. as long as you have position? so if im doing star jumps in the same spot and someone knocks me when they drive to basket its a charge? he didnt travel, i think your watching the wrong tape. hthen bogut fouled him. and finally, wtf was bogut (a 7 footer) doing trying to take a charge against someone 6 inches smaller than him? soft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravenewworld Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 NBA rule states that as long as you have posistion, your allowed to not have your feet set in order for it to be a charge. Bogut had clear posistion, and Kobe spun right into him. It's a clear cut charge imo.He traveled first anyways, and he spun right into Bogut who had posistion. Bogut didn't have position at all. The rule about not having your feet completely set applies to natural set movements. Like lifting a left leg or maybe taking one step back with one leg, NOT a slow motion moonwalk which is what Bogut did. Final Verdict: Bogut needs to work on his flopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 19, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 If Bogut would have drove in and did the same exact thing against Kobe Bryant, do you think it would be a charge or a block? Answer is pretty obvious imo.Kobe doesn't flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Blocks/Charge: A block/charge foul occurs when a defender tries to get in front of his man to stop him from going in that direction. If he does not get into a legal defensive position and contact occurs, it is a blocking foul. If he gets to a legal position and the offensive player runs into him it is an offensive foul. In both situations, if the contact is minimal, no foul may be called. To get into a legal position defending against the dribbler, the defender just needs to get in front of him. On a drive to the basket, the defender must get to his position before the shooter starts his upward shooting motion. For most other cases, the defender must get into position and allow enough distance for the offensive player to stop and/or change direction.http://www.nba.com/features/misunderstoodrules_051128.html When taking a charge, does the defensive player have to be still?Basketball rules state that if a defensive player is in a legal defensive stance or position, the defensive player has the right to move in order to maintain his legal positioning. A charging call can be made even if the defensive player has one or both feet off of the ground when the offensive player makes contact with the defensive player. The basketball rule of “verticality” applies here. If a defensive player jumps straight up to block a shot and the offensive player jumps into and creates contact with the defender, an offensive charging call could be made. (Therefore, it is more important if a defender is squared up and contact is made to the defender’s chest than if the defender is moving.)http://www.betterbasketball.com/basketball-rules/ A defensive player must be stationary to take a charge. Reality: Once a defensive player has obtained a legal guarding position, the defensive player may always move to maintain that guarding position and may even have one or both feet off the floor when contact occurs with the offensive player. Legal guarding position occurs when the defensive player has both feet on the floor and is facing the opponent. This applies to a defensive player who is defending the dribble.http://www.nba.com/jrnba/officials/officials_guide_section15.html Straight out of the rulebook. It was a charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 19, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 It's never called that way on the court, even if what you saw was what actually happened. He was back-pedaling anyways. Most everyone here saw it with their own eyes, so I don't know what you were looking at. It's not a charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 It has always been called that way. Always. Look at the Battier clip where there's at least three instances of him moving his feet, but still drawing a charge. Unless we're factoring the fact that he's Kobe Bryant. If so, then there was no travel, and it's an obvious foul on Bogut. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 19, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 It has always been called that way. Always. Look at the Battier clip where there's at least three instances of him moving his feet, but still drawing a charge.Yeah, dude, I'm sure I could find many, many clips of blocking fouls that would negate what you're saying, too. Anderson Varejao has drawn plenty of them moving into position. Fisher picks up a few blocking fouls doing the exact same thing, also, although he also draws a lot of charges. Too bad the Lakers fans from TLN aren't here, because this was something they proved wrong last year, when Flop Scola kept doing it to us, and they showed just how many of those were actually charges, and just how many times Fisher gets called for a blocking foul for doing what you're saying Bogut did. Unless we're factoring the fact that he's Kobe Bryant. If so, then there was no travel, and it's an obvious foul on Bogut.Hahaha, right, because that's all it's about for you. Kobe always travels, fouls, and never gets hit when going to the rim. He's always getting the benefit of his calls, and the Lakers are the most favored team in the NBA. I already know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Blasco Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Based on the letter of the law, from that angle that's a charge. Whether or not refs are usually too in awe of Kobe to call it on him is a different story, but that's a charge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Yeah, dude, I'm sure I could find many, many clips of blocking fouls that would negate what you're saying, too. Anderson Varejao has drawn plenty of them moving into position. Fisher picks up a few blocking fouls doing the exact same thing, also, although he also draws a lot of charges. Too bad the Lakers fans from TLN aren't here, because this was something they proved wrong last year, when Flop Scola kept doing it to us, and they showed just how many of those were actually charges, and just how many times Fisher gets called for a blocking foul for doing what you're saying Bogut did.I assure you that those clips wouldn't negate anything. Post them here if you'd like, and I'll be glad to point out the differences. I only used the Battier video because it was the easiest I could find that showed examples of textbook charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 A lot of calls that look like charges are correctly called blocks. When you rewind these plays on your Tivo, don't do what referees make fun of fans for doing: Trying to decide if the players feet were set before the contact. That's not the standard. What you want to know is: Is the defensive player's torso set in position before the offensive player begins his upward motion? The defense can not slide into position after the offensive player has reached this stage. Why did they set that standard at the moment of upward motion? Joe Borgia, the NBA's director of officiating programs and development, says "because we had to set it somewhere. He adds that "the moment of alighting is too late." In years of watching film, however, Borgia has confidence they chose the correct moment. Source Again these kind of calls can be called either way. It's just how ambiguous the charging call is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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